https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/11/28/the-best-phono-cartridges-tonearms-and-headshells-buyers-guide-2022/

On Monday, November 29, 2021 at 10:59:03 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:

> https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/11/28/the-best-phono-cartridges-tonearms-and-headshells-buyers-guide-2022/

How can anyone in their right mind call a $475 cartridge "affordable"?

Back in the 60's I had a couple of records that were so warped that I needed to put a quarter on the cartridge to prevent the tonearm from flying completely out of the groove. Worked just fine... and this was on my Miracord turntable which cost more than the amplifier I was using at the time...

:>)

On 11/29/2021 10:00 PM, Paul A wrote:
> On Monday, November 29, 2021 at 10:59:03 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:
>
>> https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/11/28/the-best-phono-cartridges-tonearms-and-headshells-buyers-guide-2022/
>
> How can anyone in their right mind call $475 cartridge "affordable"?
>

Easy. If you are talking about audiophile equipment and it's the 3rd least expensive cartridge rated, then it's affordable.

> Back in the 60's I had a couple of records that were so warped that I needed to put a quarter on the cartridge to prevent the tonearm from flying completely out of the groove. Worked just fine... and this was on my Miracord turntable which cost more than the amplifier I was using at the time...
>
> :>)
>

On Monday, November 29, 2021 at 7:53:14 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 11/29/2021 10:00 PM, Paul A wrote:
> > On Monday, November 29, 2021 at 10:59:03 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:
> >
> >> https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/11/28/the-best-phono-cartridges-tonearms-and-headshells-buyers-guide-2022/
> >
> > How can anyone in their right mind call $475 cartridge "affordable"?
> >
>
> Easy. If you are talking about audiophile equipment and it's the 3rd least expensive cartridge rated, then it's affordable.

You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time...
- Author uncertain

On 11/30/2021 12:03 AM, Paul A wrote:
> On Monday, November 29, 2021 at 7:53:14 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 11/29/2021 10:00 PM, Paul A wrote:
>>> On Monday, November 29, 2021 at 10:59:03 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/11/28/the-best-phono-cartridges-tonearms-and-headshells-buyers-guide-2022/
>>>
>>> How can anyone in their right mind call $475 cartridge "affordable"?
>>>
>>
>> Easy. If you are talking about audiophile equipment and it's the 3rd least expensive cartridge rated, then it's affordable.
>
> You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time...
> - Author uncertain
>

Irrelevant.

> > How can anyone in their right mind call $475 cartridge "affordable"?
> >
>
> > :>)
> >
Heck, people spend more than that on RCA interconnects. I think that is ludicrous.

My current favorite cartridge is a Nagaoka MP-110, like it much more than the Ortofon 2M Blue I had. It can be ordered from Japan for a reasonable price. The list also left out the Denon DL-110, a high output moving coil, which I think is also a lot better sounding than the Ortofon.

On Monday, November 29, 2021 at 9:53:14 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 11/29/2021 10:00 PM, Paul A wrote:

> > How can anyone in their right mind call $475 cartridge "affordable"?
>
> Easy. If you are talking about audiophile equipment and it's the 3rd least expensive cartridge rated, then it's affordable.

I'm not sure it is really an "audiophile" question, if we recognize that audiophile gear usually pairs imaginative performance claims with novel form and insane pricing. Look at the Denon DL-103 which has been in production for over 40 years and not really much of an audiophile item these days. If there ever was an opportunity for economies of scale, this has it, yet the price still sits at roughly $330. Part of this is currency valuations and supply chain issues, with the price having been $100 lower as recently as 5-10 or so years ago. But the bottom line is that for a classic cartridge with proven performance, you are still paying over $300. The newer 103R is selling for $500- around $150 more than it has in the past. Again, this is the lower end of quality cartridges. An Ortophon black will run you $700, for instance.

I know that the record market is hotter now that it has been in decades, but I'll bet that most of those kids are not buying quality gear, and manufacturers have to keep pricing higher just to get by.

The disclaimer that should accompany all these items is that digital is truer to the source (not that digital transfers can't be screwed up, like the Rudy van Gelder edition release on Blue Note) and far cheaper, period.

On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 5:59:03 AM UTC+11, gggg gggg wrote:
> https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/11/28/the-best-phono-cartridges-tonearms-and-headshells-buyers-guide-2022/

As a matter of interest, how many new classical recordings are available on vinyl? I thought this hyper-expensive analogue gear was for the dad rock brigade or the Taylor Swift crowd?
Yes, there are people with legacy collections of classical on vinyl, but these discs must be getting pretty worn by now.

I'd rather spend that kind of money on more downloads.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On 11/30/21 2:07 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 5:59:03 AM UTC+11, gggg gggg wrote:
>> https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/11/28/the-best-phono-cartridges-tonearms-and-headshells-buyers-guide-2022/
>
> As a matter of interest, how many new classical recordings are available on vinyl? I thought this hyper-expensive analogue gear was for the dad rock brigade or the Taylor Swift crowd?
> Yes, there are people with legacy collections of classical on vinyl, but these discs must be getting pretty worn by now.
>
> I'd rather spend that kind of money on more downloads.

The classical lps in the used shops tend to not be worn at all,
especially box sets.

There are still premium repressings of many of the usual warhorses:

https://store.acousticsounds.com/g/10/Classical

On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 2:07:54 PM UTC-6, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 5:59:03 AM UTC+11, gggg gggg wrote:
> > https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/11/28/the-best-phono-cartridges-tonearms-and-headshells-buyers-guide-2022/
> As a matter of interest, how many new classical recordings are available on vinyl? I thought this hyper-expensive analogue gear was for the dad rock brigade or the Taylor Swift crowd?
> Yes, there are people with legacy collections of classical on vinyl, but these discs must be getting pretty worn by now.
>
> I'd rather spend that kind of money on more downloads.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

I'd have ditched vinyl all together if I wasn't going to inherit a large collection. There just aren't that many new releases. There's the used market, of course, and I have two record stores near me. And I like jazz. Bottom line is that the major classical labels put stuff out on CD and downloads, and might do a token LP release. There are things that show up here and there. (Markevitch stereo Rite? Cool.) I got two LINN Scottish Chamber Orchestra LPs from Berkshire recently. Wouldn't have paid $30 for them, but $15 is fine.

Your choice to favor downloads is basically the right one.

On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 3:26:37 PM UTC-6, MINe109 wrote:
> On 11/30/21 2:07 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 5:59:03 AM UTC+11, gggg gggg wrote:
> >> https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/11/28/the-best-phono-cartridges-tonearms-and-headshells-buyers-guide-2022/
> >
> > As a matter of interest, how many new classical recordings are available on vinyl? I thought this hyper-expensive analogue gear was for the dad rock brigade or the Taylor Swift crowd?
> > Yes, there are people with legacy collections of classical on vinyl, but these discs must be getting pretty worn by now.
> >
> > I'd rather spend that kind of money on more downloads.
> The classical lps in the used shops tend to not be worn at all,
> especially box sets.
>
> There are still premium repressings of many of the usual warhorses:
>
> https://store.acousticsounds.com/g/10/Classical

I failed to mention the specialty releases like what you see here because I would never spend $40 for an LP. Not unless it was really special.

On 11/30/2021 10:29 PM, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> Here's the footnote on the way the market has things priced now. I bought a Denon DL-103 on Amazon in 2014 for $150. The same cart now costs $350.
>

Just some speculation:

Simple supply/demand analysis. Demand side: Downward sloping demand curve shifts to the right (resurgence of vinyl popularity. This is pretty clear.
What about the supply side? Possibly what we are seeing is an inability or unwillingness of manufacturers to invest in increasing production because they doubt the increased demand is sustainable. If it is, and manufacturers build more capacity, prices could come down.

On 11/30/21 7:29 PM, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> Here's the footnote on the way the market has things priced now. I bought a Denon DL-103 on Amazon in 2014 for $150. The same cart now costs $350.
>
I bought one last year for $250. It's a dinosaur, but a very capable
dinosaur.

Bob Harper

On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 12:54:47 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
> On 11/30/21 7:29 PM, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Here's the footnote on the way
> > the market has things priced now.
> > I bought a Denon DL-103 on Amazon
> > in 2014 for $150. The same cart now
> > costs $350.
>
> I bought one last year for $250.
> It's a dinosaur, but a very capable
> dinosaur.
>

IMHO the best value in MC phono
cartridges is currently the Ortofon
Quintet Blue.

dk

On 12/2/21 5:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 12:54:47 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
>> On 11/30/21 7:29 PM, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Here's the footnote on the way
>>> the market has things priced now.
>>> I bought a Denon DL-103 on Amazon
>>> in 2014 for $150. The same cart now
>>> costs $350.
>>
>> I bought one last year for $250.
>> It's a dinosaur, but a very capable
>> dinosaur.
>>
>
> IMHO the best value in MC phono
> cartridges is currently the Ortofon
> Quintet Blue.
>
> dk
>
Not having heard it, I can't comment. But at $500 it's 'reasonable'
compared to the exotica.

But I'll keep my DL-103.

Bob Harper

On 12/2/2021 11:57 PM, Bob Harper wrote:
> On 12/2/21 5:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>> On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 12:54:47 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
>>> On 11/30/21 7:29 PM, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> Here's the footnote on the way
>>>> the market has things priced now.
>>>> I bought a Denon DL-103 on Amazon
>>>> in 2014 for $150. The same cart now
>>>> costs $350.
>>>
>>> I bought one last year for $250.
>>> It's a dinosaur, but a very capable
>>> dinosaur.
>>>
>>
>> IMHO the best value in  MC phono
>> cartridges is currently the Ortofon
>> Quintet Blue.
>>
>> dk
>>
> Not having heard it, I can't comment. But at $500 it's 'reasonable'
> compared to the exotica.
>
> But I'll keep my DL-103.
>
> Bob Harper

I currently have a Shure M75ED mounted, with an M91ED backup for my 1970s Pioneer PL-12D. A couple of years ago, in a strange burst of energy, I refurbished the TT and acquired hardware and software to transfer some LPs, Hooked everything up and there was a nasty hum. Couldn't immediately solve it, and lost interest, I guess. At 74, I'm running out of time. I suspect the TT was just too close to the speakers or amp. Don't remember why I just didn't get longer cables a couple of years ago.

On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 11:57:19 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
> On 12/2/21 5:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 12:54:47 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
> >> On 11/30/21 7:29 PM, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> Here's the footnote on the way
> >>> the market has things priced now.
> >>> I bought a Denon DL-103 on Amazon
> >>> in 2014 for $150. The same cart now
> >>> costs $350.
> >>
> >> I bought one last year for $250.
> >> It's a dinosaur, but a very capable
> >> dinosaur.
> >
> > IMHO the best value in MC phono
> > cartridges is currently the Ortofon
> > Quintet Blue.
>
> Not having heard it, I can't comment.

Typical Ortofon sounds. Very detailed,
rather mellow and laid back.

> But at $500 it's 'reasonable'
> compared to the exotica.

Certainly. Quality is very good.
Ortofon MC catridges are very
reliable. Recording studios used
them a lot.

dk

On 12/2/21 9:16 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 11:57:19 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
>> On 12/2/21 5:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 12:54:47 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
>>>> On 11/30/21 7:29 PM, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Here's the footnote on the way
>>>>> the market has things priced now.
>>>>> I bought a Denon DL-103 on Amazon
>>>>> in 2014 for $150. The same cart now
>>>>> costs $350.
>>>>
>>>> I bought one last year for $250.
>>>> It's a dinosaur, but a very capable
>>>> dinosaur.
>>>
>>> IMHO the best value in MC phono
>>> cartridges is currently the Ortofon
>>> Quintet Blue.
>>
>> Not having heard it, I can't comment.
>
> Typical Ortofon sounds. Very detailed,
> rather mellow and laid back.
>
>> But at $500 it's 'reasonable'
>> compared to the exotica.
>
> Certainly. Quality is very good.
> Ortofon MC catridges are very
> reliable. Recording studios used
> them a lot.
>
> dk
>
I owned a couple of them years ago, MMs. Yes, they were as you describe.

Bob Harper

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 4:16:25 PM UTC+11, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 11:57:19 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
> > On 12/2/21 5:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 12:54:47 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
> > >> On 11/30/21 7:29 PM, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>> Here's the footnote on the way
> > >>> the market has things priced now.
> > >>> I bought a Denon DL-103 on Amazon
> > >>> in 2014 for $150. The same cart now
> > >>> costs $350.
> > >>
> > >> I bought one last year for $250.
> > >> It's a dinosaur, but a very capable
> > >> dinosaur.
> > >
> > > IMHO the best value in MC phono
> > > cartridges is currently the Ortofon
> > > Quintet Blue.
> >
> > Not having heard it, I can't comment.
> Typical Ortofon sounds. Very detailed,
> rather mellow and laid back.
> > But at $500 it's 'reasonable'
> > compared to the exotica.
> Certainly. Quality is very good.
> Ortofon MC catridges are very
> reliable. Recording studios used
> them a lot.
>
> dk

I can get one of those from a Melbourne hifi joint for AUD$692 (reduced from AUD$769). I can buy about 38 downloads for that.

Andrew Clarke
Flophouse Audio
Canberra

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 2:48:23 AM UTC-8, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 4:16:25 PM UTC+11, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 11:57:19 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
> > > On 12/2/21 5:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 12:54:47 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
> > > >> On 11/30/21 7:29 PM, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>> Here's the footnote on the way
> > > >>> the market has things priced now.
> > > >>> I bought a Denon DL-103 on Amazon
> > > >>> in 2014 for $150. The same cart now
> > > >>> costs $350.
> > > >>
> > > >> I bought one last year for $250.
> > > >> It's a dinosaur, but a very capable
> > > >> dinosaur.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO the best value in MC phono
> > > > cartridges is currently the Ortofon
> > > > Quintet Blue.
> > >
> > > Not having heard it, I can't comment.
> > Typical Ortofon sounds. Very detailed,
> > rather mellow and laid back.
> > > But at $500 it's 'reasonable'
> > > compared to the exotica.
> > Certainly. Quality is very good.
> > Ortofon MC catridges are very
> > reliable. Recording studios used
> > them a lot.
>
> I can get one of those from a Melbourne hifi
> joint for AUD$692 (reduced from AUD$769).
> I can buy about 38 downloads for that.
>

True. But you cannot watch your
downloads spinning on a platter.
That is the real fun.

dk

On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 10:40:54 AM UTC+11, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 2:48:23 AM UTC-8, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:

> > I can get one of those from a Melbourne hifi
> > joint for AUD$692 (reduced from AUD$769).
> > I can buy about 38 downloads for that.
> >
> True. But you cannot watch your
> downloads spinning on a platter.
> That is the real fun.

That's true. I just have to make do with the microwave oven instead.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra