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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?

SubjectAuthor
* What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?Ricardo Jimenez
`* Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?John Fowler
 `* Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?John Fowler
  `* Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?Ricardo Jimenez
   `* Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?John Fowler
    +* Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?weary flake
    |`- Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?John Fowler
    `- Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?Ricardo Jimenez

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What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?

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Subject: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?
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 by: Ricardo Jimenez - Sat, 18 Dec 2021 16:38 UTC

Volume IX of "The Unknown Richard Strauss" has the music for a 1924
production of the play which is supposed to have been revised by
Strauss and von Hofsmannthal. It sounds like the Beethoven original
with a few pieces from the ballet "The Creatures of Prometheus" thrown
in. I can't tell what Strauss' changes were. I assume that it
wouldn't have been included in the series unless there was something
original by Strauss. Anybody here know?

Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?

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Subject: Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?
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 by: John Fowler - Tue, 21 Dec 2021 16:23 UTC

From American Symphony Orchestra program notes for 2001 concert:
----- In the wake of World War One, a defeated Austro-German culture searched yet again for a sense of identity and found it once again in Beethoven. It is in this context that we can better understand the impetus behind the Beethoven project of Strauss and Hofmannsthal. This reworking of Beethoven is admittedly a pastiche, taking textual and musical selections from both The Ruins of Athens and The Creatures of Prometheus. But Hofmannsthal adds a new character, giving coherence and continuity to this mixture: the Wanderer, and idealized, Goethean German artist who ponders the ruins of an Athenean marketplace.
----- At this moment of meditation, the Wanderer himself receives a creative Promethean spark and, in turn, becomes the reincarnation of Prometheus himself. This central moment is cast in the mode of melodrama, where the Wanderer speaks, accompanied by Strauss’s only real musical contribution, itself a fantasy on two themes from Beethoven’s 5th and 3rd symphonies, respectively.
https://americansymphony.org/concert-notes/the-ruins-of-athens-1924/

Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?

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Subject: Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?
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 by: John Fowler - Tue, 21 Dec 2021 16:30 UTC

Reviews of the original CD:
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-4390/
https://www.theguardian.com/friday_review/story/0,3605,343063,00.html

Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?

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From: ricky...@earthlink.net (Ricardo Jimenez)
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Subject: Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?
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 by: Ricardo Jimenez - Tue, 21 Dec 2021 18:34 UTC

On Tue, 21 Dec 2021 08:30:13 -0800 (PST), John Fowler
<johnwyman5549@gmail.com> wrote:

>Reviews of the original CD:
>https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-4390/
>https://www.theguardian.com/friday_review/story/0,3605,343063,00.html

Thanks John. The second review says:
"Only a master as confident as Strauss would have dared to monkey with
Beethoven's ideas, cutting and reordering them to form an hour-long
entertainment, with only two minutes of his own material (an interlude
that quotes motifs from the Eroica and Fifth symphonies)".

I finally paid close enough attention to find the spot on disc 14 from
the box. On track 7 "Melodrama; "Hinauf zu deiner Burg, meine Göttin"
for bass soloist, you hear repeatedly a 7 note phrase from the start
of the coda of the 5th's finale and a section of the Eroica funeral
march once.

Strauss might have filled out the orchestration to the sections from
Prometheus since Ruins of Athens uses quite a larger orchestra
including 3 trombones and 4 horns while Prometheus uses harp and
basset horn. Next time I listen I will see if I can tell if certain
sections sound brassier than in the original.

Disc 7 has an Interludio that Strauss wrote for Mozart's Indomeneo. I
wonder where it fit in. It doesn't sound like Mozart or Strauss.

Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?

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Subject: Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?
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 by: John Fowler - Tue, 21 Dec 2021 21:04 UTC

> Disc 7 has an Interludio that Strauss wrote for Mozart's Indomeneo. I
> wonder where it fit in. It doesn't sound like Mozart or Strauss.

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-14062/ - review of a complete recording of the Mozart/Strauss Idomeneo (sung in German)
https://www.nytimes.com/1984/08/19/arts/music-strauss-s-setting-of-mozart-s-idomeneo.html - review of a live New York performance from 1984 (New York Times)

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 by: weary fl...@nowhere - Tue, 21 Dec 2021 22:29 UTC

On 12/21/21 1:04 PM, John Fowler wrote:
>> Disc 7 has an Interludio that Strauss wrote for Mozart's Indomeneo. I
>> wonder where it fit in. It doesn't sound like Mozart or Strauss.
>
> https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-14062/ - review of a complete recording of the Mozart/Strauss Idomeneo (sung in German)
> https://www.nytimes.com/1984/08/19/arts/music-strauss-s-setting-of-mozart-s-idomeneo.html - review of a live New York performance from 1984 (New York Times)

Has there been a printed libretto of this Strauss/Mozart anywhere
along with the recording? The reviews implies there is no libretto
included with the Dynamic release.

Re: What Did Strauss do to the Ruins of Athens?

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 by: John Fowler - Tue, 21 Dec 2021 22:49 UTC

> Has there been a printed libretto of this Strauss/Mozart anywhere
> along with the recording? The reviews implies there is no libretto
> included with the Dynamic release.
I'm afraid I don't know.

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 by: Ricardo Jimenez - Wed, 22 Dec 2021 00:45 UTC

On Tue, 21 Dec 2021 13:04:11 -0800 (PST), John Fowler
<johnwyman5549@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Disc 7 has an Interludio that Strauss wrote for Mozart's Indomeneo. I
>> wonder where it fit in. It doesn't sound like Mozart or Strauss.
>
>https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-14062/ - review of a complete recording of the Mozart/Strauss Idomeneo (sung in German)
>https://www.nytimes.com/1984/08/19/arts/music-strauss-s-setting-of-mozart-s-idomeneo.html - review of a live New York performance from 1984 (New York Times)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE_eTqpLeJQFWHUkfJy3jm3_RmFqoV4Tu

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