Hi
who for schumann's symphonies?
thanks

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 3:28:24 PM UTC-8, Malcolm Y wrote:
> Hi
> who for schumann's symphonies?
> thanks

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics3/schumannsym.html

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 3:28:24 PM UTC-8, Malcolm Y wrote:
> Hi
> who for schumann's symphonies?
> thanks
Love all 4 of them! But I only have 3 complete sets, and love the Sawallisch (Dresden - EMI/Warner) and Barenboim (Teldec). I'm less taken with the Kubelik (his later Bavarian set on Sony).

On Thursday, 27 January 2022 at 01:46:07 UTC, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 3:28:24 PM UTC-8, Malcolm Y wrote:
> > Hi
> > who for schumann's symphonies?
> > thanks
> Love all 4 of them! But I only have 3 complete sets, and love the Sawallisch (Dresden - EMI/Warner) and Barenboim (Teldec). I'm less taken with the Kubelik (his later Bavarian set on Sony).

#1 Cleveland/Dohnanyi
#2 VPO/Sinopoli
#3 NHK/Jarvi, SWR/Gielen
#4 Philh/Klemperer 1960, Cleveland/Dohnanyi

Jonathan Ben Schragadove a émis l'idée suivante :
> Love all 4 of them! But I only have 3 complete sets, and love the Sawallisch
> (Dresden - EMI/Warner) and Barenboim (Teldec). I'm less taken with the
> Kubelik (his later Bavarian set on Sony).

*Bernstein* (Sony)...
*Sawallisch* (Warner)...
*Masur*...
*Klemperer* (Warner)...
*Kubelik* (DG...Not Sony !)...

But first of all :

*Paul PARAY* (Mercury)...

On 27 Jan 2022 Malcolm Y wrote:

> Hi who for schumann's symphonies?

Performances of Schumann's orchestral works benefit from smaller than
usual orchestral forces in my humble opinion. My recommendations:

Scottish Chamber Orchestra / Robin Ticciati (Linn)

https://www.linnrecords.com/recording-schumann-symphonies

Netherlands Radio Chamber Philharmonic / Michael Schønwandt (Challenge
Records)

https://www.challengerecords.com/products/1367594471

Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique / John Eliot Gardiner (Archiv)

https://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/catalogue/products/schumann-
complete-symphonies-gardiner-8750

Chris

On Thursday, 27 January 2022 at 10:27:03 UTC, Chris J. wrote:
> Performances of Schumann's orchestral works benefit from smaller than
> usual orchestral forces in my humble opinion. My recommendations:
> > Scottish Chamber Orchestra / Robin Ticciati (Linn)
> Netherlands Radio Chamber Philharmonic / Michael Schønwandt (Challenge
> Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique / John Eliot Gardiner (Archiv)
> Chris

Yes - smaller forces give a nice clarity and make the symphonies less heavy..
Swedish CO/Dausgaard is another good version, smaller band, clear textures

MELMOTH a pensé très fort :
> *Paul PARAY* (Mercury)...

And many other more or less interesting recordings...
Dohnanyi...Mehta...Gardiner...Chailly...Szell...Holliger...
Avoid Karajan...Thielmann...Nezet-Seguin...

On 1/27/2022 8:00 AM, MELMOTH wrote:
> MELMOTH a pensé très fort :
>> *Paul PARAY* (Mercury)...
>
> And many other more or less interesting recordings...
> Dohnanyi...Mehta...Gardiner...Chailly...Szell...Holliger...
> Avoid Karajan...Thielmann...Nezet-Seguin...
>

"More or less interesting?" Why not just list every recording ever made? You've already shared your favorites. Why not leave it at that?

On 1/27/2022 7:04 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 27 January 2022 at 10:27:03 UTC, Chris J. wrote:
>> Performances of Schumann's orchestral works benefit from smaller than
>> usual orchestral forces in my humble opinion. My recommendations:
>>> Scottish Chamber Orchestra / Robin Ticciati (Linn)
>> Netherlands Radio Chamber Philharmonic / Michael Schønwandt (Challenge
>> Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique / John Eliot Gardiner (Archiv)
>> Chris
>
> Yes - smaller forces give a nice clarity and make the symphonies less heavy.
> Swedish CO/Dausgaard is another good version, smaller band, clear textures

I like Dausgaard as well. I'm not sure how many musicians there are in which orchestras, but I don't think you need a small orchestra to achieve a lighter texture or greater clarity, or whatever it is we are talking about. Zinman achieve that, I think, with 100 or so musicians in Tonhalle Zurich. So does Szell.

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 3:28:24 PM UTC-8, Malcolm Y wrote:
> Hi
> who for schumann's symphonies?
> thanks

Frank Beermann (cpo)
Skrowaczewski (Oehms)
Sawallisch (EMI Warner)
Sinopoli/Dresden (I like his VPO recording of the Second too)
and. . . (yes, MELMOTH!). . . Paray (Mercury)

The trouble is that the Paray recordings are beginning to show their age sonically, but, fortunately, there are rumors of a new Tom Fine remastering of the Paray/Detroit recordings coming out soon. Even so, Paray's recording of the Fourth is mono only.

As Andy notes, there are recordings of individual symphonies which are very fine too - I especially revere the Dorati/LSO (Mercury) recording which was FINALLY issued on CD last year on Decca Eloquence.

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 6:28:24 PM UTC-5, Malcolm Y wrote:
> Hi
> who for schumann's symphonies?
> thanks

Celi.

dk

On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 4:54:43 AM UTC-5, MELMOTH wrote:
> Jonathan Ben Schragadove a émis l'idée suivante :
> > Love all 4 of them! But I only have 3 complete sets, and love the Sawallisch
> > (Dresden - EMI/Warner) and Barenboim (Teldec). I'm less taken with the
> > Kubelik (his later Bavarian set on Sony).
> *Bernstein* (Sony)...
> *Sawallisch* (Warner)...
> *Masur*...
> *Klemperer* (Warner)...
> *Kubelik* (DG...Not Sony !)...
>
> But first of all :
>
> *Paul PARAY* (Mercury)...

Why am I not suprised? He quacks like
a Schwann, he walks like a Schwann, he
writes like a Schwann -- he is a Schwann!

dk

On 1/26/22 3:28 PM, Malcolm Y wrote:
> Hi
> who for schumann's symphonies?
> thanks

So far unmentioned: for the 4th, Furtwängler/BPO.

Bob Harper

On Saturday, 5 February 2022 at 23:03:50 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:

> So far unmentioned: for the 4th, Furtwängler/BPO. > Bob Harper

Very nice, but Klemperer is also excellent in this.

On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 9:27:03 PM UTC+11, Chris J. wrote:
> On 27 Jan 2022 Malcolm Y wrote:
>
> > Hi who for schumann's symphonies?
> Performances of Schumann's orchestral works benefit from smaller than
> usual orchestral forces in my humble opinion. My recommendations:
>
> Scottish Chamber Orchestra / Robin Ticciati (Linn)
>
> https://www.linnrecords.com/recording-schumann-symphonies
>
> Netherlands Radio Chamber Philharmonic / Michael Schønwandt (Challenge
> Records)
>
> https://www.challengerecords.com/products/1367594471
>
> Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique / John Eliot Gardiner (Archiv)
>
> https://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/catalogue/products/schumann-
> complete-symphonies-gardiner-8750
>
> Chris

Francois-Xavier Roth with the Guerzenich-Orchester Koeln (1 and 4 only so far). Uses original score for the 1st.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

I'm listening to the Spring Symphony with Dohnanyi - very nice too.

I'm hoping that it will bring some warmer weather.......

On 2/5/22 4:24 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Saturday, 5 February 2022 at 23:03:50 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
>
>> So far unmentioned: for the 4th, Furtwängler/BPO. > Bob Harper
>
> Very nice, but Klemperer is also excellent in this.

I decided to listen to these performances in succession. IMO, not to put
too fine a point on it, F wipes the floor with K. K's performance is
perfectly good, and of course the recording is much better, despite
having been made only seven years later (stereo helps!), but the energy,
the tension, and the ssheer inevitability of F's performance sweeps the
boards.

Of course, YMMV, but that's how I hear it.

Bob Harper

On Sunday, 6 February 2022 at 23:36:22 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
> On 2/5/22 4:24 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Saturday, 5 February 2022 at 23:03:50 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
> >
> >> So far unmentioned: for the 4th, Furtwängler/BPO. > Bob Harper
> >
> > Very nice, but Klemperer is also excellent in this.
> I decided to listen to these performances in succession. IMO, not to put
> too fine a point on it, F wipes the floor with K. .... the energy,
> the tension, and the sheer inevitability of F's performance sweeps the
> boards. > Bob Harper

Interesting - I hear it the other way around. F over-dramatises the music and pulls it about. K is cleaner, lighter, more naturally expressive, and has much more delicacy and charm. I find F rather oppressive in the long run. I generally don't like performances that "manufacture" energy and drama. Particularly in Sibelius, but here as well. I think K gets this right - plenty to enjoy in his phrasing and overall message.

On 2/7/22 6:44 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Sunday, 6 February 2022 at 23:36:22 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
>> On 2/5/22 4:24 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
>>> On Saturday, 5 February 2022 at 23:03:50 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
>>>
>>>> So far unmentioned: for the 4th, Furtwängler/BPO. > Bob Harper
>>>
>>> Very nice, but Klemperer is also excellent in this.
>> I decided to listen to these performances in succession. IMO, not to put
>> too fine a point on it, F wipes the floor with K. .... the energy,
>> the tension, and the sheer inevitability of F's performance sweeps the
>> boards. > Bob Harper
>
> Interesting - I hear it the other way around. F over-dramatises the music and pulls it about. K is cleaner, lighter, more naturally expressive, and has much more delicacy and charm. I find F rather oppressive in the long run. I generally don't like performances that "manufacture" energy and drama. Particularly in Sibelius, but here as well. I think K gets this right - plenty to enjoy in his phrasing and overall message.

Thanks for the reply. As I said, YMMV, and here it clearly does. I trust
you'll agree that that is one of the great things about our love of
CM--that two people can utterly disagree about a particular performance
but still respect the other's POV. Even when one of us is wrong :).

Bob Harper

On Monday, 7 February 2022 at 18:00:44 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
YMMV, and here it clearly does. I trust you'll agree that that is one of the great things about our love of CM--that two people can utterly disagree about a particular performance but still respect the other's POV. Even when one of us is wrong :).
> > Bob Harper

There's no right and wrong... well there is in my mind of course. But you might be surprised about some of the negative reviews of Furt's #4. It really is not universally admired. And of course not by me, though it's better than a slap in the face with a wet cod.

Bear in mind that I'm a person who prefers silence to anything involving Leonard Bernstein unless it's a song out of West Side Story. I don't do grandiose. And I don't do puffing up music to give it more drama, energy and tension. If I want tension I can watch Hitchcock or preferably Kurosawa or Chabrol.

On 2022-01-28 06:58, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 6:28:24 PM UTC-5, Malcolm Y wrote:
>> Hi
>> who for schumann's symphonies?
>> thanks
>
> Celi.
>
> dk

I find Celi's recordings of #2 and #4 mis-fire (did he ever record #1?)
because they are so distended they don't cohere (at least as recorded).
But his EMI/Munich #3 is one where everything clicks - really trenchant
stuff!

--
- Alex Brown

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 5:28:24 PM UTC-6, Malcolm Y wrote:
> Hi
> who for schumann's symphonies?
> thanks

Re Bob's and Andy's views of WillyF's #4: both of you have made cogent points. But for this troglodyte, F does not overdramatize Herr Robert, whose whole persona to me encompasses a gorgeously extreme emotional range. One other point,: didn't much of F's art consist in permitting the musicians to let out and give expression to their sense of the music? I would think they had much to say about what we hear in their Schumann's #4. In 1954 liberation from Nazism and the progressing Wirtschaftswunder as well as their repossession of their cultural patrimony may have played here. Not to ignore innate musicality.

On 2/7/22 11:21 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 7 February 2022 at 18:00:44 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
> YMMV, and here it clearly does. I trust you'll agree that that is one of the great things about our love of CM--that two people can utterly disagree about a particular performance but still respect the other's POV. Even when one of us is wrong :).
>>> Bob Harper
>
> There's no right and wrong... well there is in my mind of course. But you might be surprised about some of the negative reviews of Furt's #4.

I trust you saw the smiley at the end of my reply.

It really is not universally admired. And of course not by me, though
it's better than a slap in the face with a wet cod.

That's a pretty low bar. Now, if you'd said a Spring Chinook, I might
pay more attention.

>
> Bear in mind that I'm a person who prefers silence to anything involving Leonard Bernstein unless it's a song out of West Side Story. I don't do grandiose. And I don't do puffing up music to give it more drama, energy and tension. If I want tension I can watch Hitchcock or preferably Kurosawa or Chabrol.

If you want music without passion, maybe you'd prefer Feldman.

Bob Harper

In article <DIiMJ.9146$GjY3.3821@fx01.iad>,
Bob Harper <bob.harper@comcast.net> wrote:
>If you want music without passion, maybe you'd prefer Feldman.

Feldman was passion in a bad suit.