On 2/9/2022 3:03 PM, Mr. Mike wrote:
> In Mozart's sweepingly funny opera, the great seducer Don Giovanni
> seduces the shy peasant girl Zerlina with "La ci darem la mano,"
> which, it must be said, is one of the all-time panty-droppingest,
> dick-throbbingest seduction songs of all time.
> -- from "Tacky" by Rax King

Must be more erotic in Italian

"La ci darem la mano" English Translation

Don Giovanni:
There I'll give you my hand,
There you'll say yes:
See, it is not far,
my love, let's leave from here.
Zerlina:
Should I or shouldn't I,
my heart trembles at the thought,
it's true, I would be happy,
I can still have fun!
Don Giovanni:
Come, my beloved beautiful!
Zerlina:
It makes me pity Masetto.
Don Giovanni:
I will change your fate.
Zerlina:
Soon ... I am no longer strong enough to resist.
Don Giovanni:
Let us go!
Zerlina:
Let us go!
Duet:
Come, come, my darling,
to restore our pleasure
of an innocent love.

On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 1:14:44 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 2/9/2022 3:03 PM, Mr. Mike wrote:
> > In Mozart's sweepingly funny opera, the great seducer Don Giovanni
> > seduces the shy peasant girl Zerlina with "La ci darem la mano,"
> > which, it must be said, is one of the all-time panty-droppingest,
> > dick-throbbingest seduction songs of all time.
> > -- from "Tacky" by Rax King
> Must be more erotic in Italian
>
> "La ci darem la mano" English Translation
>
> Don Giovanni:
> There I'll give you my hand,
> There you'll say yes:
> See, it is not far,
> my love, let's leave from here.
> Zerlina:
> Should I or shouldn't I,
> my heart trembles at the thought,
> it's true, I would be happy,
> I can still have fun!
> Don Giovanni:
> Come, my beloved beautiful!
> Zerlina:
> It makes me pity Masetto.
> Don Giovanni:
> I will change your fate.
> Zerlina:
> Soon ... I am no longer strong enough to resist.
> Don Giovanni:
> Let us go!
> Zerlina:
> Let us go!
> Duet:
> Come, come, my darling,
> to restore our pleasure
> of an innocent love.

Even so, the whole thing needs to be cancelled! ;-)

On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 4:14:44 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 2/9/2022 3:03 PM, Mr. Mike wrote:
> > In Mozart's sweepingly funny opera, the great seducer Don Giovanni
> > seduces the shy peasant girl Zerlina with "La ci darem la mano,"
> > which, it must be said, is one of the all-time panty-droppingest,
> > dick-throbbingest seduction songs of all time.
> > -- from "Tacky" by Rax King
> Must be more erotic in Italian
>
> "La ci darem la mano" English Translation
>
> Don Giovanni:
> There I'll give you my hand,
> There you'll say yes:
> See, it is not far,
> my love, let's leave from here.
> Zerlina:
> Should I or shouldn't I,
> my heart trembles at the thought,
> it's true, I would be happy,
> I can still have fun!
> Don Giovanni:
> Come, my beloved beautiful!
> Zerlina:
> It makes me pity Masetto.
> Don Giovanni:
> I will change your fate.
> Zerlina:
> Soon ... I am no longer strong enough to resist.
> Don Giovanni:
> Let us go!
> Zerlina:
> Let us go!
> Duet:
> Come, come, my darling,
> to restore our pleasure
> of an innocent love.
Yet another proof of the pointlesness of
opera! I'd rather listen to a string quartet
than to an opera. And if I wanted to hear
Italian spoken in an excited way, I could
watch a soccer game on Italian TV! ;-)

dk

On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 12:21:52 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:

> Yet another proof of the pointlesness of opera! > dk

Die Meistersinger is one of my favourite operas, but I have a hard time imagining that a rich gold dealer would marry his daughter off to a karaoke singer. We won't go into the Ring cycle.... And of course one of my other favourite operas has clocks, teapots and various other items of furniture coming to life and wreaking fear into a child. Still, it's more exciting than a string quartet.....

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 4:21:52 AM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 4:14:44 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
> > On 2/9/2022 3:03 PM, Mr. Mike wrote:
> > > In Mozart's sweepingly funny opera, the great seducer Don Giovanni
> > > seduces the shy peasant girl Zerlina with "La ci darem la mano,"
> > > which, it must be said, is one of the all-time panty-droppingest,
> > > dick-throbbingest seduction songs of all time.
> > > -- from "Tacky" by Rax King
> > Must be more erotic in Italian
> >
> > "La ci darem la mano" English Translation
> >
> > Don Giovanni:
> > There I'll give you my hand,
> > There you'll say yes:
> > See, it is not far,
> > my love, let's leave from here.
> > Zerlina:
> > Should I or shouldn't I,
> > my heart trembles at the thought,
> > it's true, I would be happy,
> > I can still have fun!
> > Don Giovanni:
> > Come, my beloved beautiful!
> > Zerlina:
> > It makes me pity Masetto.
> > Don Giovanni:
> > I will change your fate.
> > Zerlina:
> > Soon ... I am no longer strong enough to resist.
> > Don Giovanni:
> > Let us go!
> > Zerlina:
> > Let us go!
> > Duet:
> > Come, come, my darling,
> > to restore our pleasure
> > of an innocent love.
> Yet another proof of the pointlesness of
> opera! I'd rather listen to a string quartet
> than to an opera. And if I wanted to hear
> Italian spoken in an excited way, I could
> watch a soccer game on Italian TV! ;-)
>
> dk

- Anything that is too stupid to be spoken is sung.

Voltaire

On 2/11/22 11:19 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 12:21:52 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Yet another proof of the pointlesness of opera! > dk
>
> Die Meistersinger is one of my favourite operas, but I have a hard time imagining that a rich gold dealer would marry his daughter off to a karaoke singer. We won't go into the Ring cycle.... And of course one of my other favourite operas has clocks, teapots and various other items of furniture coming to life and wreaking fear into a child. Still, it's more exciting than a string quartet.....

There's always my 3 sentence summary of the Magic Flute from 2006:

>Wayward hallucinating Prince meets homeless vagabond and falls in love
>with a picture. The Prince finds pinup girl, but refuses to talk to
>her, joins the Freemasons, and pisses off his Mother-in-law to be.
>Homeless guy meets an old hag while three juvenile delinquents try
>self-powered flight, as Prince finally hooks up with babe, who puts him
>through hell first.

-Owen

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 11:19:40 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 12:21:52 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Yet another proof of the pointlesness of opera! > dk
>
> Die Meistersinger is one of my favourite operas, but I have a hard time imagining that a rich gold dealer would marry his daughter off to a karaoke singer. We won't go into the Ring cycle.... And of course one of my other favourite operas has clocks, teapots and various other items of furniture coming to life and wreaking fear into a child. Still, it's more exciting than a string quartet.....

A radio talk show host once said that he preferred instrumental music to vocal music because ultimately words confine music to language and ideas, whereas purely instrumental music can go way beyond both. I thought about and and felt he was right. Also I agree with the teapots and clocks - Ravel was a special kind of genius.

On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 19:13:41 UTC, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:

> The words don't matter much in vocal music.

They matter hugely in popular music, in fact rap which is the genre du jour is all words.

I guess it also depends on the format - lieder is more revealing of the lyrics.

And the composer - Britten's lyrics are fairly up-front. Same with L'Enfant et les Sortileges, in fact, where Colette's lyrics are very central to the whole composition.

In article <i1dd0hhpbs6g32dnrcsbka9a38gf35rcac@4ax.com>,
Ricardo Jimenez <rickyjim@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I think of the voice as another musical instrument and one of the
>best.

I agree. And I enjoy vocal music without words. (E.g. dhrupad,
which was recently discussed elsewhere, has actual lyrics only for
its final sections... after building a mood, basically, through
vocalization.)

On 2/11/2022 2:13 PM, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 10:49:43 -0800 (PST), JohnGavin
> <dagdern@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 11:19:40 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
>>> On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 12:21:52 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yet another proof of the pointlesness of opera! > dk
>>>
>>> Die Meistersinger is one of my favourite operas, but I have a hard time imagining that a rich gold dealer would marry his daughter off to a karaoke singer. We won't go into the Ring cycle.... And of course one of my other favourite operas has clocks, teapots and various other items of furniture coming to life and wreaking fear into a child. Still, it's more exciting than a string quartet.....
>>
>> A radio talk show host once said that he preferred instrumental music to vocal music because ultimately words confine music to language and ideas, whereas purely instrumental music can go way beyond both. I thought about and and felt he was right. Also I agree with the teapots and clocks - Ravel was a special kind of genius.
>
> The words don't matter much in vocal music. I think of the voice as
> another musical instrument and one of the best. When you hear a vocal
> composition arranged for another instrument or combination of
> instruments, it never sounds as good as the original.

I came to a view similar to this in popular music also, since I so often find the lyrics offensive for one reason or another, or I simply don't understand them in the first place.

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 11:36:57 AM UTC-8, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <i1dd0hhpbs6g32dnr...@4ax.com>,
> Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> >I think of the voice as another musical instrument and one of the
> >best.
> I agree. And I enjoy vocal music without words. (E.g. dhrupad,
> which was recently discussed elsewhere, has actual lyrics only for
> its final sections... after building a mood, basically, through
> vocalization.)
Some of my favorite music comes from those subsets of the jazz /improvised /new music spaces that use vocal expression without specific linguistic content. I believe singing predates language.

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 3:17:10 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 2/11/2022 2:13 PM, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
>
> > The words don't matter much in vocal music. I think of the voice as
> > another musical instrument and one of the best. When you hear a vocal
> > composition arranged for another instrument or combination of
> > instruments, it never sounds as good as the original.
> I came to a view similar to this in popular music also, since I
> so often find the lyrics offensive for one reason or another, or
> I simply don't understand them in the first place.

Time to relearn French?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG37rXKQMx0

dk

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 3:45:26 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 3:17:10 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
> > On 2/11/2022 2:13 PM, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> >
> > > The words don't matter much in vocal music. I think of the voice as
> > > another musical instrument and one of the best. When you hear a vocal
> > > composition arranged for another instrument or combination of
> > > instruments, it never sounds as good as the original.
> > I came to a view similar to this in popular music also, since I
> > so often find the lyrics offensive for one reason or another, or
> > I simply don't understand them in the first place.
> Time to relearn French?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG37rXKQMx0
>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwAooQkK1ng

dk

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 11:19:40 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 12:21:52 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Yet another proof of the pointlesness of opera! > dk
>
> Die Meistersinger is one of my favourite operas,

A sadistic test of bladder control.

dk

In article <3abf52aa-c443-4e97-93d1-a38791d791can@googlegroups.com>,
number_six <cyberiade@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I believe singing predates language.

I agree -- pace what "language" means. :-)

On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 20:45:26 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:

> Time to relearn French?
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG37rXKQMx0
> > dk

I think Barbara should relearn her French - that hard "R" like Brassens used to use sounds so out of date.

On 2022-02-11 1:45 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 3:17:10 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 2/11/2022 2:13 PM, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
>>
>>> The words don't matter much in vocal music. I think of the voice as
>>> another musical instrument and one of the best. When you hear a vocal
>>> composition arranged for another instrument or combination of
>>> instruments, it never sounds as good as the original.
>> I came to a view similar to this in popular music also, since I
>> so often find the lyrics offensive for one reason or another, or
>> I simply don't understand them in the first place.
>
> Time to relearn French?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG37rXKQMx0
>
> dk

It's Friday! Time to lighten up a bit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ4-THJv2D4

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 5:43:44 PM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
> On 2022-02-11 1:45 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > Time to relearn French?
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG37rXKQMx0
>
> It's Friday! Time to lighten up a bit!
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ4-THJv2D4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4HX46oPB_4

Better!

dk

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 4:53:41 PM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 20:45:26 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Time to relearn French?
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG37rXKQMx0
> >
> I think Barbara should relearn her French - that hard
> "R" like Brassens used to use sounds so out of date.

ROTFL!

BTW Brel's "R" is "harder" than all others'.

dk

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 5:43:44 PM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
>
> It's Friday! Time to lighten up a bit!
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ4-THJv2D4

For real fun one should watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAEmhqdLFs

Beats Götterdämmerung! ;-)

dk

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 6:04:22 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 5:43:44 PM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
> >
> > It's Friday! Time to lighten up a bit!
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ4-THJv2D4
> For real fun one should watch
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAEmhqdLFs
>
> Beats Götterdämmerung! ;-)
>

Or this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrbv40ENU_o

dk

On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 22:58:59 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > I think Barbara should relearn her French - that hard
> > "R" like Brassens used to use sounds so out of date.
> ROTFL!
>
> BTW Brel's "R" is "harder" than all others'.
> > dk

I love the French words for various activities. For example, Barbara was a "cabaretière". A guy whose day involves sauntering down fashionable streets would be a "boulevardier" or a "flâneur". Paris is the only place I know that has a "moutardier" - a shop that only sells different kinds of mustard.

Even better are the clever constructions such as a "m'as-tu-vu". Literally a "have you seen me", meaning a show-off or someone of more debatable origin who pretends to be fashionable.  

On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 23:04:22 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > It's Friday! Time to lighten up a bit!
> For real fun one should watch
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAEmhqdLFs
> > dk

Or this.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPzt3A4Se_U

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 6:18:44 PM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 23:04:22 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > It's Friday! Time to lighten up a bit!
> > For real fun one should watch
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAEmhqdLFs
> > > dk
>
> Or this.....
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPzt3A4Se_U

Only for Americans.

dk

Dan Koren a émis l'idée suivante :
> Time to relearn French?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brt3f-jlrao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fjq8qh7R1g