Tanguy *de Willien*court*...Jean-Paul *Gasparian*...Julien
*Brocal*...Guillaume *Bellon...Ismaël *Bargain*...Nathalia
*Milstein*...Jean*-Baptiste *Doulcet*...Rémi *Genie*t...Nathanaël
*Gouin*...Marie-Ange *Nguci*...Selim *Mazart*...Philippe
*Hattat*...Theo *Fouchonneret*...Jérémie *Moreau*...Julian
*Trevelyan*...Keigo *Mukawa*...Nour *Ayadi*...Gaspard
*Dehaene*...Wei-Ting *Hsieh*...Arielle *Beck*...Charles *Heisser*...

All these great young FRENCH pianists are worth any slant-eyed pianist
that the friend Koko seems to praise, eh...

On 2/22/2022 2:31 PM, MELMOTH wrote:
> Tanguy *de Willien*court*...Jean-Paul *Gasparian*...Julien *Brocal*...Guillaume *Bellon...Ismaël *Bargain*...Nathalia *Milstein*...Jean*-Baptiste *Doulcet*...Rémi *Genie*t...Nathanaël *Gouin*...Marie-Ange *Nguci*...Selim *Mazart*...Philippe *Hattat*...Theo *Fouchonneret*...Jérémie *Moreau*...Julian *Trevelyan*...Keigo *Mukawa*...Nour *Ayadi*...Gaspard *Dehaene*...Wei-Ting *Hsieh*...Arielle *Beck*...Charles *Heisser*...
>
> All these great young FRENCH pianists are worth any slant-eyed pianist that the friend Koko seems to praise, eh...
>

What sort of eyes do Keigo Mukawa and Wei-Ting Hsieh have?

What a stupid remark.

On Tuesday, 22 February 2022 at 19:31:53 UTC, MELMOTH wrote:
> Tanguy *de Willien*court*...Jean-Paul *Gasparian*...Julien
> *Brocal*...Guillaume *Bellon...Ismaël *Bargain*...Nathalia
> *Milstein*...Jean*-Baptiste *Doulcet*...Rémi *Genie*t...Nathanaël
> *Gouin*...Marie-Ange *Nguci*...Selim *Mazart*...Philippe
> *Hattat*...Theo *Fouchonneret*...Jérémie *Moreau*...Julian
> *Trevelyan*...Keigo *Mukawa*...Nour *Ayadi*...Gaspard
> *Dehaene*...Wei-Ting *Hsieh*...Arielle *Beck*...Charles *Heisser*...
>
> All these great young FRENCH pianists are worth any slant-eyed pianist
> that the friend Koko seems to praise, eh...

I'm not sure I want to go through such a long list, but I'm well aware that France trains a number of excellent pianists. But judging from the names you're also a fan of the occasional "slant eyed pianist" so looks like you are hoist by your own petard.

On 2/22/2022 3:23 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Tuesday, 22 February 2022 at 19:31:53 UTC, MELMOTH wrote:
>> Tanguy *de Willien*court*...Jean-Paul *Gasparian*...Julien
>> *Brocal*...Guillaume *Bellon...Ismaël *Bargain*...Nathalia
>> *Milstein*...Jean*-Baptiste *Doulcet*...Rémi *Genie*t...Nathanaël
>> *Gouin*...Marie-Ange *Nguci*...Selim *Mazart*...Philippe
>> *Hattat*...Theo *Fouchonneret*...Jérémie *Moreau*...Julian
>> *Trevelyan*...Keigo *Mukawa*...Nour *Ayadi*...Gaspard
>> *Dehaene*...Wei-Ting *Hsieh*...Arielle *Beck*...Charles *Heisser*...
>>
>> All these great young FRENCH pianists are worth any slant-eyed pianist
>> that the friend Koko seems to praise, eh...
>
> I'm not sure I want to go through such a long list, but I'm well aware that France trains a number of excellent pianists. But judging from the names you're also a fan of the occasional "slant eyed pianist" so looks like you are hoist by your own petard.

If an intervention-minded government wants the country to produce more of something (wheat, pianists, olympic athletes, scientists, nukes, whatever) than would result otherwise they make sure that it does. It doesn't mean that the subjects of those governments are more inherently gifted in those fields than those of less interventionist governments. So if China (or France) is producing more good pianists per capita than some other country it probably means nothing about Chinese people (or French people). There are many factors in play, obviously. tradition, government (or private) subsidies to artists, wealth (the wealthier the country the more people have time to devote to arts). Eye-slant or wine consumption has little to do with it.

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 2:31:53 PM UTC-5, MELMOTH wrote:
> Tanguy *de Willien*court*...Jean-Paul *Gasparian*...Julien
> *Brocal*...Guillaume *Bellon...Ismaël *Bargain*...Nathalia
> *Milstein*...Jean*-Baptiste *Doulcet*...Rémi *Genie*t...Nathanaël
> *Gouin*...Marie-Ange *Nguci*...Selim *Mazart*...Philippe
> *Hattat*...Theo *Fouchonneret*...Jérémie *Moreau*...Julian
> *Trevelyan*...Keigo *Mukawa*...Nour *Ayadi*...Gaspard
> *Dehaene*...Wei-Ting *Hsieh*...Arielle *Beck*...Charles *Heisser*...
>
> All these great young FRENCH pianists
> are worth any slant-eyed pianist that
> the friend Koko seems to praise, eh...

Many of those listed above are not born
in France or ethnically French. Have any
of them won major piano competitions?

dk

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:23:09 PM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Tuesday, 22 February 2022 at 19:31:53 UTC, MELMOTH wrote:
> > Tanguy *de Willien*court*...Jean-Paul *Gasparian*...Julien
> > *Brocal*...Guillaume *Bellon...Ismaël *Bargain*...Nathalia
> > *Milstein*...Jean*-Baptiste *Doulcet*...Rémi *Genie*t...Nathanaël
> > *Gouin*...Marie-Ange *Nguci*...Selim *Mazart*...Philippe
> > *Hattat*...Theo *Fouchonneret*...Jérémie *Moreau*...Julian
> > *Trevelyan*...Keigo *Mukawa*...Nour *Ayadi*...Gaspard
> > *Dehaene*...Wei-Ting *Hsieh*...Arielle *Beck*...Charles *Heisser*...
> >
> > All these great young FRENCH pianists are worth any slant-eyed pianist
> > that the friend Koko seems to praise, eh...
>
> I'm not sure I want to go through such a long list,
> but I'm well aware that France trains a number of
> excellent pianists. But judging from the names
> you're also a fan of the occasional "slant eyed
> pianist" so looks like you are hoist by your own
> petard.

Hoisting by one's own petard
is a French national habit.

dk

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:38:03 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> If an intervention-minded government wants the
> country to produce more of something (wheat,
> pianists, olympic athletes, scientists, nukes,
> whatever) than would result otherwise they
> make sure that it does. It doesn't mean that
> the subjects of those governments are more
> inherently gifted in those fields than those of
> less interventionist governments. So if China
> (or France) is producing more good pianists
> per capita than some other country it probably
> means nothing about Chinese people (or French
> people). There are many factors in play, obviously.
> tradition, government (or private) subsidies to artists,
> wealth (the wealthier the country the more people have
> time to devote to arts). Eye-slant or wine consumption
> has little to do with it.

It is the music schools and the teachers.
France still has a few excellent ones.

dk

On 2/22/2022 6:01 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:38:03 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
>>
>> If an intervention-minded government wants the
>> country to produce more of something (wheat,
>> pianists, olympic athletes, scientists, nukes,
>> whatever) than would result otherwise they
>> make sure that it does. It doesn't mean that
>> the subjects of those governments are more
>> inherently gifted in those fields than those of
>> less interventionist governments. So if China
>> (or France) is producing more good pianists
>> per capita than some other country it probably
>> means nothing about Chinese people (or French
>> people). There are many factors in play, obviously.
>> tradition, government (or private) subsidies to artists,
>> wealth (the wealthier the country the more people have
>> time to devote to arts). Eye-slant or wine consumption
>> has little to do with it.
>
> It is the music schools and the teachers.
> France still has a few excellent ones.
>
> dk

I am aware that you don't train musicians in supermarkets or grow them on trees. It could/should have gone without saying that you need schools and teachers. But to have those you need to have the things I mentioned. In short, tradition, interest and money.

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 6:32:13 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 2/22/2022 6:01 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:38:03 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
> >>
> >> If an intervention-minded government wants the
> >> country to produce more of something (wheat,
> >> pianists, olympic athletes, scientists, nukes,
> >> whatever) than would result otherwise they
> >> make sure that it does. It doesn't mean that
> >> the subjects of those governments are more
> >> inherently gifted in those fields than those of
> >> less interventionist governments. So if China
> >> (or France) is producing more good pianists
> >> per capita than some other country it probably
> >> means nothing about Chinese people (or French
> >> people). There are many factors in play, obviously.
> >> tradition, government (or private) subsidies to artists,
> >> wealth (the wealthier the country the more people have
> >> time to devote to arts). Eye-slant or wine consumption
> >> has little to do with it.
> >
> > It is the music schools and the teachers.
> > France still has a few excellent ones.
>
> I am aware that you don't train musicians in
> supermarkets or grow them on trees. It could/
> should have gone without saying that you need
> schools and teachers. But to have those you need
> to have the things I mentioned. In short, tradition,
> interest and money.

Only the latter two. Tradition doesn't matter.
Just look at Japan and South Korea. They
produce more and better trained musicians
than all of Europe combined. And the part
that is really interesting is that for the last
decade or so they have been self-sufficient
in producing them. Their top violinists and
pianists no longer feel compelled to study
at Curtis or Juilliard. The conservatories in
Tokyo and Seoul are just as good nowadays.

dk

On 2/22/2022 6:55 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 6:32:13 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 2/22/2022 6:01 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:38:03 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If an intervention-minded government wants the
>>>> country to produce more of something (wheat,
>>>> pianists, olympic athletes, scientists, nukes,
>>>> whatever) than would result otherwise they
>>>> make sure that it does. It doesn't mean that
>>>> the subjects of those governments are more
>>>> inherently gifted in those fields than those of
>>>> less interventionist governments. So if China
>>>> (or France) is producing more good pianists
>>>> per capita than some other country it probably
>>>> means nothing about Chinese people (or French
>>>> people). There are many factors in play, obviously.
>>>> tradition, government (or private) subsidies to artists,
>>>> wealth (the wealthier the country the more people have
>>>> time to devote to arts). Eye-slant or wine consumption
>>>> has little to do with it.
>>>
>>> It is the music schools and the teachers.
>>> France still has a few excellent ones.
>>
>> I am aware that you don't train musicians in
>> supermarkets or grow them on trees. It could/
>> should have gone without saying that you need
>> schools and teachers. But to have those you need
>> to have the things I mentioned. In short, tradition,
>> interest and money.
>
> Only the latter two. Tradition doesn't matter.
> Just look at Japan and South Korea. They
> produce more and better trained musicians
> than all of Europe combined. And the part
> that is really interesting is that for the last
> decade or so they have been self-sufficient
> in producing them. Their top violinists and
> pianists no longer feel compelled to study
> at Curtis or Juilliard. The conservatories in
> Tokyo and Seoul are just as good nowadays.
>
> dk

Sigh. Tradition is a factor, not an absolute requirement. You are arguing

On 2/22/2022 8:48 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 2/22/2022 6:55 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 6:32:13 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
>>> On 2/22/2022 6:01 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:38:03 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> If an intervention-minded government wants the
>>>>> country to produce more of something (wheat,
>>>>> pianists, olympic athletes, scientists, nukes,
>>>>> whatever) than would result otherwise they
>>>>> make sure that it does. It doesn't mean that
>>>>> the subjects of those governments are more
>>>>> inherently gifted in those fields than those of
>>>>> less interventionist governments. So if China
>>>>> (or France) is producing more good pianists
>>>>> per capita than some other country it probably
>>>>> means nothing about Chinese people (or French
>>>>> people). There are many factors in play, obviously.
>>>>> tradition, government (or private) subsidies to artists,
>>>>> wealth (the wealthier the country the more people have
>>>>> time to devote to arts). Eye-slant or wine consumption
>>>>> has little to do with it.
>>>>
>>>> It is the music schools and the teachers.
>>>> France still has a few excellent ones.
>>>
>>> I am aware that you don't train musicians in
>>> supermarkets or grow them on trees. It could/
>>> should have gone without saying that you need
>>> schools and teachers. But to have those you need
>>> to have the things I mentioned. In short, tradition,
>>> interest and money.
>>
>> Only the latter two. Tradition doesn't matter.
>> Just look at Japan and South Korea. They
>> produce more and better trained musicians
>> than all of Europe combined. And the part
>> that is really interesting is that for the last
>> decade or so they have been self-sufficient
>> in producing them. Their top violinists and
>> pianists no longer feel compelled to study
>> at Curtis or Juilliard. The conservatories in
>> Tokyo and Seoul are just as good nowadays.
>>
>> dk
>
>
> Sigh.  Tradition is a factor, not an absolute requirement. You are arguing

for the sake of arguing.

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 8:52:50 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> > Sigh. Tradition is a factor, not
> > an absolute requirement.

Glad you agree.

> You are arguing for
> the sake of arguing.

I argue for the sake
of truth -- as always.

dk

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 2:31:53 PM UTC-5, MELMOTH wrote:
> Tanguy *de Willien*court*...Jean-Paul *Gasparian*...Julien
> *Brocal*...Guillaume *Bellon...Ismaël *Bargain*...Nathalia
> *Milstein*...Jean*-Baptiste *Doulcet*...Rémi *Genie*t...Nathanaël
> *Gouin*...Marie-Ange *Nguci*...Selim *Mazart*...Philippe
> *Hattat*...Theo *Fouchonneret*...Jérémie *Moreau*...Julian
> *Trevelyan*...Keigo *Mukawa*...Nour *Ayadi*...Gaspard
> *Dehaene*...Wei-Ting *Hsieh*...Arielle *Beck*...Charles *Heisser*...
>
> All these great young FRENCH pianists are worth any slant-eyed pianist
> that the friend Koko seems to praise, eh...

Wei-Ting Hsiew is Taiwanese.

Keigo Mukawa is Japanese.

Marie-Ange Nguci is Albanian.

Nathalia Milstein is Jewish.

Nour Ayadi is Moroccan.

Ismaël Bargain is a bargain.

Wearing Louis Vuitton bags
doesn't make one French!

And you didn't mention
Lydie Waï Solomon ?!?

It is however encouraging to
see you are so welcoming of
immigrants. Someoone must
do the real work after all.

dk

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 12:51:09 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 2:31:53 PM UTC-5, MELMOTH wrote:
> > Tanguy *de Willien*court*...Jean-Paul *Gasparian*...Julien
> > *Brocal*...Guillaume *Bellon...Ismaël *Bargain*...Nathalia
> > *Milstein*...Jean*-Baptiste *Doulcet*...Rémi *Genie*t...Nathanaël
> > *Gouin*...Marie-Ange *Nguci*...Selim *Mazart*...Philippe
> > *Hattat*...Theo *Fouchonneret*...Jérémie *Moreau*...Julian
> > *Trevelyan*...Keigo *Mukawa*...Nour *Ayadi*...Gaspard
> > *Dehaene*...Wei-Ting *Hsieh*...Arielle *Beck*...Charles *Heisser*...
> >
> > All these great young FRENCH pianists are worth any slant-eyed pianist
> > that the friend Koko seems to praise, eh...
> Wei-Ting Hsiew is Taiwanese.
>
> Keigo Mukawa is Japanese.
>
> Marie-Ange Nguci is Albanian.
>
> Nathalia Milstein is Jewish.
>
> Nour Ayadi is Moroccan.
>
> Ismaël Bargain is a bargain.
>
> Wearing Louis Vuitton bags
> doesn't make one French!
>
> And you didn't mention
> Lydie Waï Solomon ?!?

Or Delphine Lizé. Or Lise
de La Salle. Or Hélène
Grimaud. Or Hüseyin
Sermet. Or Cyprien
Katsaris. I suppose
they are still métèques.

dk