This is the time...
To listen to the three war sonatas of Prokofiev...
By Youri Boukoff, of course...Who as everyone knows is Koko's favorite
pianist...

On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 7:55:02 AM UTC-5, MELMOTH wrote:
> This is the time...
> To listen to the three war
> sonatas of Prokofiev...
> By Youri Boukoff, of course...
> Who as everyone knows is
> Koko's favorite
> pianist...

Boukoff is OK, but
he is no Richter.
Or Gilels. And he
is not even French.
Why does France
need all these
immigrants to
pretend it has
a piano school?

dk

On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 7:55:02 AM UTC-5, MELMOTH wrote:
> This is the time...
> To listen to the three
> war sonatas of Prokofiev...
>

Alexander Nevsky.

dk

On 24 Feb 2022 Dan Koren wrote:

> Boukoff is OK, but he is no Richter.
> Or Gilels. And he is not even French.
> Why does France need all these immigrants to pretend it has a piano
> school?

Because the French lack the necessary discipline and are too neurotic,
yet dream of gloire et grandeur?
;-)

Chris
(ducking)

On Thursday, 24 February 2022 at 16:55:06 UTC, Chris J. wrote:
> Because the French lack the necessary discipline and are too neurotic,
> yet dream of gloire et grandeur?
> ;-) > Chris > (ducking)

On the contrary, French music training is extremely disciplined and starts with solfege at an early age.

And when did being neurotic become a problem for musicians?

On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 12:30:19 PM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> And when did being neurotic
> become a problem for musicians?

When Freud popularized the term.

dk

On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 12:30:19 PM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 24 February 2022 at 16:55:06 UTC, Chris J. wrote:
> > Because the French lack the necessary discipline and are too neurotic,
> > yet dream of gloire et grandeur?
> > ;-) > Chris > (ducking)
> On the contrary, French music training is
> extremely disciplined and starts with
> solfege at an early age.
>
> And when did being neurotic become a
> problem for musicians?

This is what drives French pianists crazy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_5lVqKg-0E

dk

On 24 Feb 2022 Andy Evans wrote:

>> Because the French lack the necessary discipline and are too neurotic,
>> yet dream of gloire et grandeur?
>> ;-) > Chris > (ducking)

> On the contrary, French music training is extremely disciplined and
> starts with solfege at an early age.

> And when did being neurotic become a problem for musicians?

Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of ;-) (in relation to a Melmoth
posting).

Chris
(Ducking deeper)

On Thursday, 24 February 2022 at 17:41:00 UTC, Chris J. wrote:
> Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of ;-) (in relation to a Melmoth
> posting).
> > Chris > (Ducking deeper)

I never use smileys or emoticons and I rarely even look at them. I believe in words. They were good enough for Shakespeare, Pushkin, Keats and all the rest of them. Can you imagine Macbeth or Hamlet with smileys and emoticons?

On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 1:44:50 PM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 24 February 2022 at 17:41:00 UTC, Chris J. wrote:
> > Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of ;-) (in relation to a Melmoth
> > posting).
> > > Chris > (Ducking deeper)
> I never use smileys or emoticons and
> I rarely even look at them. I believe in
> words.

Watch out for politicians! ;-)

> They were good enough for Shakespeare,
> Pushkin, Keats and all the rest of them.

They were all smarter than us.

> Can you imagine Macbeth or Hamlet
> with smileys and emoticons?

I can. Can you?

dk

On 2022-02-24 9:55 a.m., Chris J. wrote:
> On 24 Feb 2022 Dan Koren wrote:
>
>> Boukoff is OK, but he is no Richter.
>> Or Gilels. And he is not even French.
>> Why does France need all these immigrants to pretend it has a piano
>> school?
>
> Because the French lack the necessary discipline and are too neurotic,
> yet dream of gloire et grandeur?
> ;-)
>
> Chris
> (ducking)

No need!
"France cannot be France without greatness" - General de Gaulle.

On Thursday, 24 February 2022 at 18:54:03 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > Can you imagine Macbeth or Hamlet
> > with smileys and emoticons?
> I can. Can you? > > dk

I can do better than that with a sketch I wrote for a life coaching conference.......

Macbeth gets life coaching...

Ladies and Gentlemen – I’d like to introduce you to my partner Annie! She’s one of the best coaches in the country! In the city – useless…. That’s why she does most of her work by telephone.....
Macbeth: “Annie!! Annie!! Annie!!....... mumbles, says “ayeeee” a lot, groans, acts disturbed…
Coach: Macbeth? You’re on your cellphone? You’re in Scotland? What would you like coaching on today – what’s your topic?
Macbeth: Ah have done the deed. Didst thou not heer a noise?
Coach: Noise? What kind of noise?
Macbeth: mumbles, says “ayeeee” a lot, groans, acts disturbed…mumbles….
“Ah’m feeling very jumpy heer – I just killed the king”…
You’ve killed the King? Streuth! - I should report this! But I can’t tell the police……. I have to be confidential with all my clients…. Wow, this is deep shit. Anyway, go on…..
Macbeth: Ayeee, this is a sorry sight.
Coach: Wow, I can imagine it….. blood everywhere…… what a mess. Macbeth, what are you hearing here?
Macbeth: There's one did laugh in's sleep, and one cried "Murder!" One cried "God bless us!" and "Amen" the other; as they had seen me with these hangman's hands.
Coach: Macbeth, exactly how many people have you murdered here?
Macbeth: Ah could nae say "Amen," ."Amen" stuck in mah throat.
Coach: So you’re feeling this in your throat…OK. And what else are you hearing?
Macbeth: Ah heered a voice cry "Sleep nae more! Macbeth does murder sleep,"
Coach: Wow…..you’ve murdered sleep as well! Tell me about that…
Macbeth: Thah innocent sleep, sleep that knits up the ravell'd sleave of care… and still it cried "Sleep nae more!" tae all the hoose: Macbeth shall sleep nae more."
Macbeth, I’m feeling real stuck. I’m thinking this is more therapy than coaching. In fact to be honest, I’m thinking psychiatrist……..
Macbeth: Tae know mah deed, 'twere best NOT to know mah-self. Ayyeeeee……[acts disturbed, walks off]
Coach: Macbeth? Macbeth? He’s hung up.
[thinks…..] God! My client’s a psycho on a murdering spree. What do I do!! This isn’t in the manual!
[inspiration!....] I know - I’ll get Tony from the Forum to give me some supervision – he’s into therapy. …….
[disappointed/defeated….] And to think….. my Certification was going SO well……

Supervision
Coach: So Tony, I’m in deep shit here – my client’s a serial killer! What’s my priority – report him to the police or respect his confidentiality?
Supervisor: Well, Annie, unless you suspect terrorism you have no duty to report it. And in any case terrorism is quite normal in Scotland – always has been.
Coach: So no police then?
Supervisor: Indeed. And reporting a client to the police could be a little tricky from another angle - the client never gets to be wrong, ya? Having him arrested would be setting a pretty bad example, you must admit.
Coach: Right..… though I must admit I’m kind of uncomfortable around mass murderers…. But I can see your point here.
Supervisor: And another thing, Annie, be careful here - you only have the client's version here – this may not be what’s really happening. He may be making a lot of this up.
Coach: So I’m getting too caught up in the client’s story, is that it?
Supervisor: Yes you are. Now another thing, I think to look for therapy or psychiatry is to say 'there's something here I can't be with', ya? And anyway, therapy is just talking about the past, you know? It gets the client nowhere. I mean look what happened when Macbeth looked back at what he’d done. It’s a mess. Stick to coaching, Annie
Coach: So what could I have done different here, Tony?
Supervisor: Coaching needs to be a safe and courageous space at all times, OK? There’s no room for the coach to be judgemental. You should have called forth the client’s magnificence.
Coach: I should have? So how should I do that, Tony?
Supervisor: Well, Annie, this is where a really good coach takes charge. You look at Macbeth’s whole life – the big picture. Be spacious! Allow him to talk. Ask Macbeth what’s his desired outcome, his primary focus? So – if he says “Rule Scotland” then you honour his magnificence and say “Wow, that's just great!!! Macbeth! You’re so powerful when you’re being authentic”!
Coach: You’re right! I’m being soooo negative here. Step into the positive! Remember – my client is naturally creative, resourceful & whole …
Supervisor: That’s right, cos just think, Annie - now you've got a Royal client!! That’s every coach's dream since Princess Di!!! Think a bit - this could be a niche market for you. Think of the fees and think how much you'll get from leaking it to the press…..

Anyway - let’s get the marking sheet out. So I’m going to give that coaching a 4.9 out of ten. Next time I want to hear much more about values and fulfillment, OK? Talk in a week – bye!
Coach: Thanks Tony – that was…. really helpful…… [puzzled]….

On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:19 PM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 24 February 2022 at 18:54:03 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Can you imagine Macbeth or Hamlet
> > > with smileys and emoticons?
> > I can. Can you? > > dk
> I can do better than that with a sketch I wrote for a life coaching conference.......
>
> Macbeth gets life coaching...
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen – I’d like to introduce you to my partner Annie! She’s one of the best coaches in the country! In the city – useless…. That’s why she does most of her work by telephone.....
> Macbeth: “Annie!! Annie!! Annie!!....... mumbles, says “ayeeee” a lot, groans, acts disturbed…
> Coach: Macbeth? You’re on your cellphone? You’re in Scotland? What would you like coaching on today – what’s your topic?
> Macbeth: Ah have done the deed. Didst thou not heer a noise?
> Coach: Noise? What kind of noise?
> Macbeth: mumbles, says “ayeeee” a lot, groans, acts disturbed…mumbles….
> “Ah’m feeling very jumpy heer – I just killed the king”…
> You’ve killed the King? Streuth! - I should report this! But I can’t tell the police……. I have to be confidential with all my clients…. Wow, this is deep shit. Anyway, go on…...
> Macbeth: Ayeee, this is a sorry sight.
> Coach: Wow, I can imagine it….. blood everywhere…… what a mess. Macbeth, what are you hearing here?
> Macbeth: There's one did laugh in's sleep, and one cried "Murder!" One cried "God bless us!" and "Amen" the other; as they had seen me with these hangman's hands.
> Coach: Macbeth, exactly how many people have you murdered here?
> Macbeth: Ah could nae say "Amen," ."Amen" stuck in mah throat.
> Coach: So you’re feeling this in your throat…OK. And what else are you hearing?
> Macbeth: Ah heered a voice cry "Sleep nae more! Macbeth does murder sleep,"
> Coach: Wow…..you’ve murdered sleep as well! Tell me about that…
> Macbeth: Thah innocent sleep, sleep that knits up the ravell'd sleave of care… and still it cried "Sleep nae more!" tae all the hoose: Macbeth shall sleep nae more."
> Macbeth, I’m feeling real stuck. I’m thinking this is more therapy than coaching. In fact to be honest, I’m thinking psychiatrist……..
> Macbeth: Tae know mah deed, 'twere best NOT to know mah-self. Ayyeeeee……[acts disturbed, walks off]
> Coach: Macbeth? Macbeth? He’s hung up.
> [thinks…..] God! My client’s a psycho on a murdering spree. What do I do!! This isn’t in the manual!
> [inspiration!....] I know - I’ll get Tony from the Forum to give me some supervision – he’s into therapy. ……..
> [disappointed/defeated….] And to think….. my Certification was going SO well……
>
> Supervision
> Coach: So Tony, I’m in deep shit here – my client’s a serial killer! What’s my priority – report him to the police or respect his confidentiality?
> Supervisor: Well, Annie, unless you suspect terrorism you have no duty to report it. And in any case terrorism is quite normal in Scotland – always has been.
> Coach: So no police then?
> Supervisor: Indeed. And reporting a client to the police could be a little tricky from another angle - the client never gets to be wrong, ya? Having him arrested would be setting a pretty bad example, you must admit.
> Coach: Right..… though I must admit I’m kind of uncomfortable around mass murderers…. But I can see your point here.
> Supervisor: And another thing, Annie, be careful here - you only have the client's version here – this may not be what’s really happening. He may be making a lot of this up.
> Coach: So I’m getting too caught up in the client’s story, is that it?
> Supervisor: Yes you are. Now another thing, I think to look for therapy or psychiatry is to say 'there's something here I can't be with', ya? And anyway, therapy is just talking about the past, you know? It gets the client nowhere. I mean look what happened when Macbeth looked back at what he’d done. It’s a mess. Stick to coaching, Annie
> Coach: So what could I have done different here, Tony?
> Supervisor: Coaching needs to be a safe and courageous space at all times, OK? There’s no room for the coach to be judgemental. You should have called forth the client’s magnificence.
> Coach: I should have? So how should I do that, Tony?
> Supervisor: Well, Annie, this is where a really good coach takes charge. You look at Macbeth’s whole life – the big picture. Be spacious! Allow him to talk. Ask Macbeth what’s his desired outcome, his primary focus? So – if he says “Rule Scotland” then you honour his magnificence and say “Wow, that's just great!!! Macbeth! You’re so powerful when you’re being authentic”!
> Coach: You’re right! I’m being soooo negative here. Step into the positive! Remember – my client is naturally creative, resourceful & whole …
> Supervisor: That’s right, cos just think, Annie - now you've got a Royal client!! That’s every coach's dream since Princess Di!!! Think a bit - this could be a niche market for you. Think of the fees and think how much you'll get from leaking it to the press…..
>
> Anyway - let’s get the marking sheet out. So I’m going to give that coaching a 4.9 out of ten. Next time I want to hear much more about values and fulfillment, OK? Talk in a week – bye!
>
> Coach: Thanks Tony – that was…. really helpful…… [puzzled]….

Sorry, I cannot follow
this without emojis.
Please redact and
resubmit.

dk

...... and Hamlet gets Life Coaching

Explanation first - "Balance" coaching is where you physically move your client to different points in the room corresponding to different choices he can make. At each point he has to say what he is feeling and how he sees the outcome of that position.

Coach: And now Hamlet seeks some balance in his poor confused life. So Hamlet, what’s your topic for today?
Hamlet: To be, or not to be, that is the question…
[Totally OTT bossy, shoves Hamlet around] OK so “to be”. I’m curious – what’s here for you?
Hamlet: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune
Coach: Right....
Hamlet: … or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing end them?
Coach: OK, let’s move over here to “not to be”. [move] We’re gonna use the geography, Hamlet. So, “not to be” And what’s here?
Hamlet: To die: to sleep; no more;
Coach: [to audience] God - not sleep again, what’s with Shakespeare!
[back to Hamlet] So Hamlet, let’s move to “sleep”. [move] Now tell me - how resourceful do you feel in sleep?
Hamlet: ‘Tis a consummation devoutly to be wish'd.
Coach: OK. So a nine out of ten for sleep? Lets move again. [move] Now Hamlet, Let’s have a metaphor here!
Hamlet: To die….to sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
Coach: To dream – come over here. [move] So what’s here in “dream”?
Hamlet: The dread of something after death, the undiscover'd country from whose bourn no traveller returns….
Coach: So we’re moving again [move] OK, so what’s in dread?
Hamlet: It makes us rather bear those ills we have than fly to others that we know not of.. Thus conscience does make cowards of us all…
Coach: Hamlet, this is all way too in your head. I’m just going to blurt here ….and trust my intuition. It’s about a woman right? You’re a handsome guy with a big castle – you must be a real babe magnet, and those Danish babes…. So who is she?
Hamlet: [bashful] … The fair Ophelia…..
Coach: [To audience] Ophelia – hmmmm... that doesn’t sound very Danish…
[back to Hamlet] So anyway, Hamlet, I’m going to close this with a challenge. My challenge is this. Talk to your mother, stab Polonius, kill the king and then take poison. And when you’ve done all that text me so I know you’ve done it? Alright!!!!
Hamlet - Great coaching! .......[confused look]

On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:11 PM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
> On 2022-02-24 9:55 a.m., Chris J. wrote:
> > On 24 Feb 2022 Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> >> Boukoff is OK, but he is no Richter.
> >> Or Gilels. And he is not even French.
> >> Why does France need all these
> >> immigrants to pretend it has a piano
> >> school?
> >
> > Because the French lack the necessary
> > discipline and are too neurotic,
> > yet dream of gloire et grandeur?
> > ;-)
> >
> > Chris
> > (ducking)
> No need!
> "France cannot be France without
> greatness" - General de Gaulle.

He probably meant tall people.

And he forgot to mention les
cuisses de grenouilles and
l'escargots.

dk

On 2022-02-24 6:42 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:11 PM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
>> On 2022-02-24 9:55 a.m., Chris J. wrote:
>>> On 24 Feb 2022 Dan Koren wrote:
>>>
>>>> Boukoff is OK, but he is no Richter.
>>>> Or Gilels. And he is not even French.
>>>> Why does France need all these
>>>> immigrants to pretend it has a piano
>>>> school?
>>>
>>> Because the French lack the necessary
>>> discipline and are too neurotic,
>>> yet dream of gloire et grandeur?
>>> ;-)
>>>
>>> Chris
>>> (ducking)
>> No need!
>> "France cannot be France without
>> greatness" - General de Gaulle.
>
> He probably meant tall people.

With big noses!

>
> And he forgot to mention les
> cuisses de grenouilles and
> l'escargots.
>
> dk

On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:00:37 PM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
> On 2022-02-24 6:42 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:11 PM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
> >> On 2022-02-24 9:55 a.m., Chris J. wrote:
> >>> On 24 Feb 2022 Dan Koren wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Boukoff is OK, but he is no Richter.
> >>>> Or Gilels. And he is not even French.
> >>>> Why does France need all these
> >>>> immigrants to pretend it has a piano
> >>>> school?
> >>>
> >>> Because the French lack the necessary
> >>> discipline and are too neurotic,
> >>> yet dream of gloire et grandeur?
> >>> ;-)
> >>>
> >>> Chris
> >>> (ducking)
> >> No need!
> >> "France cannot be France without
> >> greatness" - General de Gaulle.
> >
> > He probably meant tall people.
>
> With big noses!

My favorite British song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dy-VhtGcXw

dk

Melbourne's Flinders Street Station was lit up in
yellow and blue on Friday in a show of support
for Ukraine. Australian Prime Minister Scott
Morrison called Russia's invasion "brutal"
and "unprovoked," on Thursday, while
announcing new sanctions against Moscow.

Meanwhile, the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra
received a long, standing ovation when they
played the Czech and Ukrainian anthems
before their concert in Prague on Thursday.
It is likely that many in the audience lived
through the 1968 Russian invasion of
Czechoslovakia.

There will be all kinds of developments we are not seeing yet. For instance, my ex is Serbian and Serbia won't join in sanctions according to its president. They want to remain independent and free to negotiate with Russia and China as they see fit. This will probably mean falling foul of the USA and the EU. According to my ex, Serbians are really angry that the USA and Europe and moving mountains to defend Ukraine when it's a question of Ukraine losing its territories. When that happened to Serbia in the Balkan war and Bosnia and Kossova were taken away from Serbia despite having strong Serbian populations, far from respecting Serbia and honouring its people they bombed the country. Serbians will never forgive that. While Croatia, the darling of the west, collaborated with the Nazis during the war, Serbia resisted at great cost to its population. And the terms of the original separation of the Balkan countries was never made clear and is still unclear. We know that Milosevic stormed out of the talks, which included the USA, and then very mysteriously died in prison before he could testify to what happened. Ask any Serbian about the Balkan War (or anything else...) and they will say "You just don't understand". And they are probably right most of the time..

Dan Koren a utilisé son clavier pour écrire :
> And he forgot to mention les
> cuisses de grenouilles and
> l'escargots.

Koko forgot the absinthe...He drops, he drops...

Op vrijdag 25 februari 2022 om 10:50:11 UTC+1 schreef Andy Evans:
> There will be all kinds of developments we are not seeing yet. For instance, my ex is Serbian and Serbia won't join in sanctions according to its president. They want to remain independent and free to negotiate with Russia and China as they see fit. This will probably mean falling foul of the USA and the EU. According to my ex, Serbians are really angry that the USA and Europe and moving mountains to defend Ukraine when it's a question of Ukraine losing its territories. When that happened to Serbia in the Balkan war and Bosnia and Kossova were taken away from Serbia despite having strong Serbian populations, far from respecting Serbia and honouring its people they bombed the country. Serbians will never forgive that. While Croatia, the darling of the west, collaborated with the Nazis during the war, Serbia resisted at great cost to its population. And the terms of the original separation of the Balkan countries was never made clear and is still unclear. We know that Milosevic stormed out of the talks, which included the USA, and then very mysteriously died in prison before he could testify to what happened.. Ask any Serbian about the Balkan War (or anything else...) and they will say "You just don't understand". And they are probably right most of the time.

Some tend to forget that Western politics is (post-)imperialist: still based on a highly selective use of norms and values.

Henk

On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 10:10:06 UTC, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Some tend to forget that Western politics is (post-)imperialist: still based on a highly selective use of norms and values.
> > Henk

Yes absolutely. In the larger picture, USA and Europe have for a very long time believed they rule the world and can set up the conditions on which it operates it. But both USA and Europe have dark histories - USA messed up big time in Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, the Middle East and the Balkans to name just some recent attempts at intervention, plus it ruthlessly toppled left leaning regimes in Latin America and elsewhere and has prolonged the Cold War against anything "socialist". The USA has behaved despicably to its native and black populations, as did the European colonial powers in Africa, India, the East and beyond. Against that USA and Europe have the best democracies in the world, though Republicans are trying their best to turn the USA into a one party state. And in terms of climate change Europe is probably ahead of all other countries. But both the USA and Europe are huge arms factories that have armed conflict all around the world with no apparent regrets.. They are no saints. And in supporting without questions asked anything that Israel and Saudi Arabia does, USA has created an axis that automatically makes enemies in the Middle East and fuels conflict there.

The alliance of USA and Europe has up to now felt invincible and free to make rules for other countries. But the rise of Russia and China worldwide is starting to paint a radically different picture. Up to now Russia and China have stayed well clear of conflict with the West, but the balance of power is changing. USA and Europe are quaking in their boots at the idea of Russia and China making up the new world order, and with some justification given the tyrants that run both countries. Unfortunately USA is very poor at diplomacy, and just re-iterates the old concepts of how it wants to see the world, and the USA is a very insular country with a poor understanding of how to collaborate with neighbours.

We are seeing a big clash of ideologies which has been waiting to happen for a good while, and where it will lead nobody really knows at this point. The world is really tense about everything, given the pandemic and climate change, and all kinds of behaviours may spontaneously erupt around the world.. People are starting to feel very worried about what's ahead.

On 25 Feb 2022 Dan Koren wrote:

> Melbourne's Flinders Street Station was lit up in yellow and blue on
> Friday in a show of support for Ukraine. Australian Prime Minister Scott
> Morrison called Russia's invasion "brutal"
> and "unprovoked," on Thursday, while announcing new sanctions against
> Moscow.
>
> Meanwhile, the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra received a long, standing
> ovation when they played the Czech and Ukrainian anthems before their
> concert in Prague on Thursday.
> It is likely that many in the audience lived through the 1968 Russian
> invasion of Czechoslovakia.

Very good, exceptionally brave, and morally superior. We all know that
such pseudo-solidarity, safe and without serious obligations or major
consequences, will help Ukraine right now and immediately stop a
frightened czar Vladimir Putin. How fortunate that it's so easy to
achieve peace in our time. And it's so cheap.

Chris

On 2/25/2022 5:43 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 10:10:06 UTC, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
>> Some tend to forget that Western politics is (post-)imperialist: still based on a highly selective use of norms and values.
>>> Henk
>
> Yes absolutely. In the larger picture, USA and Europe have for a very long time believed they rule the world and can set up the conditions on which it operates it. But both USA and Europe have dark histories - USA messed up big time in Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, the Middle East and the Balkans to name just some recent attempts at intervention, plus it ruthlessly toppled left leaning regimes in Latin America and elsewhere and has prolonged the Cold War against anything "socialist". The USA has behaved despicably to its native and black populations, as did the European colonial powers in Africa, India, the East and beyond. Against that USA and Europe have the best democracies in the world, though Republicans are trying their best to turn the USA into a one party state. And in terms of climate change Europe is probably ahead of all other countries. But both the USA and Europe are huge arms factories that have armed conflict all around the world with no apparent regrets. They are no saints. And in supporting without questions asked anything that Israel and Saudi Arabia does, USA has created an axis that automatically makes enemies in the Middle East and fuels conflict there.
>
> The alliance of USA and Europe has up to now felt invincible and free to make rules for other countries. But the rise of Russia and China worldwide is starting to paint a radically different picture. Up to now Russia and China have stayed well clear of conflict with the West, but the balance of power is changing. USA and Europe are quaking in their boots at the idea of Russia and China making up the new world order, and with some justification given the tyrants that run both countries. Unfortunately USA is very poor at diplomacy, and just re-iterates the old concepts of how it wants to see the world, and the USA is a very insular country with a poor understanding of how to collaborate with neighbours.
>
> We are seeing a big clash of ideologies which has been waiting to happen for a good while, and where it will lead nobody really knows at this point. The world is really tense about everything, given the pandemic and climate change, and all kinds of behaviours may spontaneously erupt around the world. People are starting to feel very worried about what's ahead.
I am worried, too. When people seem not to be able to understand that people (you do know that nations and movements are composed of individual people, right?) are a whole lot better off living under one form of government (loosely called democracy) than under tryanny, I fear all is lost.

On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 23:49:39 UTC+11, Chris J. wrote:
> On 25 Feb 2022 Dan Koren wrote:
>
> > Melbourne's Flinders Street Station was lit up in yellow and blue on
> > Friday in a show of support for Ukraine. Australian Prime Minister Scott
> > Morrison called Russia's invasion "brutal"
> > and "unprovoked," on Thursday, while announcing new sanctions against
> > Moscow.
> >
> > Meanwhile, the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra received a long, standing
> > ovation when they played the Czech and Ukrainian anthems before their
> > concert in Prague on Thursday.
> > It is likely that many in the audience lived through the 1968 Russian
> > invasion of Czechoslovakia.
> Very good, exceptionally brave, and morally superior. We all know that
> such pseudo-solidarity, safe and without serious obligations or major
> consequences, will help Ukraine right now and immediately stop a
> frightened czar Vladimir Putin. How fortunate that it's so easy to
> achieve peace in our time. And it's so cheap.
>
> Chris

So easy to be cynical without cost as well. So what do you suggest that people/countries do to meet the obligations we should feel about the current situation?

Ray Hall, Taree