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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!

SubjectAuthor
* No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!Dan Koren
`* Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!Andy Evans
 +* Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!Bob Harper
 |+* Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!Dan Koren
 ||`* Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!Bob Harper
 || `- Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!Dan Koren
 |`* Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!Andrew Clarke
 | `* Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!JohnGavin
 |  `- Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!Andrew Clarke
 `* Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!Frank Lekens
  `* Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!Dan Koren
   +- Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!Frank Lekens
   `* Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!Dan Koren
    `- Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!Frank Lekens

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No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!

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Subject: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Fri, 25 Feb 2022 01:44 UTC

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/arts/music/gergiev-putin-vienna-philharmonic-carnegie-hall.html

dk

Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!

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Subject: Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!
From: performa...@gmail.com (Andy Evans)
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 by: Andy Evans - Fri, 25 Feb 2022 10:56 UTC

On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 01:44:06 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/arts/music/gergiev-putin-vienna-philharmonic-carnegie-hall.html
> > dk

Ah, so it's all started now. Anything Russian is banned in the USA. I see. The new Cold War starts to bite.

Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!

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From: bob.har...@comcast.net (Bob Harper)
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 by: Bob Harper - Fri, 25 Feb 2022 23:30 UTC

On 2/25/22 2:56 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 01:44:06 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/arts/music/gergiev-putin-vienna-philharmonic-carnegie-hall.html
>>> dk
>
> Ah, so it's all started now. Anything Russian is banned in the USA. I see. The new Cold War starts to bite.

Not anything Russian, but anything Putin. There is (and should be) a
distinction.

Bob Harper

Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!

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Subject: Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Fri, 25 Feb 2022 23:49 UTC

On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 6:30:54 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
> On 2/25/22 2:56 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 01:44:06 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/arts/music/gergiev-putin-vienna-philharmonic-carnegie-hall.html
> >
> > Ah, so it's all started now. Anything Russian is
> > banned in the USA. I see. The new Cold War
> > starts to bite.
>
> Not anything Russian, but anything Putin.
> There is (and should be) a distinction.
>

Isn't Putin Russia? At least in his own mind?

Note however that historically, music has
exempted to some degree from political
gerrymandering -- as evidence by heavy
pianist and violinist traffic between the
great powers during the Cold War. Van
Cliburn and other Western pianists went
to Russia, Gilels and Richter went to the
US, etc...

As Isaac Stern famously said, ‘They send
us their Jews from Odessa, and we send
them our Jews from Odessa.’

dk

Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!

<ZHiSJ.1950$LN2.647@fx13.iad>

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 by: Bob Harper - Sat, 26 Feb 2022 05:15 UTC

On 2/25/22 3:49 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 6:30:54 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
>> On 2/25/22 2:56 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
>>> On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 01:44:06 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/arts/music/gergiev-putin-vienna-philharmonic-carnegie-hall.html
>>>
>>> Ah, so it's all started now. Anything Russian is
>>> banned in the USA. I see. The new Cold War
>>> starts to bite.
>>
>> Not anything Russian, but anything Putin.
>> There is (and should be) a distinction.
>>
>
> Isn't Putin Russia? At least in his own mind?

Perhaps in his own mind, but not in, say, Solzhenitsyn's or Sakharov's
nor, I dare say, in Oistrakh's or Richter's either.
>
> Note however that historically, music has
> exempted to some degree from political
> gerrymandering -- as evidence by heavy
> pianist and violinist traffic between the
> great powers during the Cold War. Van
> Cliburn and other Western pianists went
> to Russia, Gilels and Richter went to the
> US, etc...
>
> As Isaac Stern famously said, ‘They send
> us their Jews from Odessa, and we send
> them our Jews from Odessa.’
>
> dk

We're talking about people (Gergiev, at least) who vocally approve of
what Putin is doing. I doubt those you mention had any unforced
connection with the Soviet leadership of the day.

Bob Harper

Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!

<c83ccc8e-df95-42eb-adfd-a7123bb6f0edn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Sat, 26 Feb 2022 05:38 UTC

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 12:15:44 AM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
> On 2/25/22 3:49 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 6:30:54 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
> >> On 2/25/22 2:56 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> >>> On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 01:44:06 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/arts/music/gergiev-putin-vienna-philharmonic-carnegie-hall.html
> >>>
> >>> Ah, so it's all started now. Anything Russian is
> >>> banned in the USA. I see. The new Cold War
> >>> starts to bite.
> >>
> >> Not anything Russian, but anything Putin.
> >> There is (and should be) a distinction.
> >>
> >
> > Isn't Putin Russia? At least in his own mind?
> Perhaps in his own mind, but not in, say, Solzhenitsyn's or Sakharov's
> nor, I dare say, in Oistrakh's or Richter's either.
> >
> > Note however that historically, music has
> > exempted to some degree from political
> > gerrymandering -- as evidence by heavy
> > pianist and violinist traffic between the
> > great powers during the Cold War. Van
> > Cliburn and other Western pianists went
> > to Russia, Gilels and Richter went to the
> > US, etc...
> >
> > As Isaac Stern famously said, ‘They send
> > us their Jews from Odessa, and we send
> > them our Jews from Odessa.’
>
> We're talking about people (Gergiev, at least)
> who vocally approve of what Putin is doing.

Everyone understands that.

> I doubt those you mention had any unforced
> connection with the Soviet leadership of the
> day.

No such thing as "unenforced connections"
in those parts of the world during those days.
Not even sure there is such a thing nowadays.

Otherwise, and on a much broader horizon,
many artists have gravitated towards dictators
during times of social and political turmoil.
G&M are neither the first nor will they be
the last.

dk

Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!

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 by: Frank Lekens - Sat, 26 Feb 2022 09:16 UTC

Op 25-2-2022 om 11:56 schreef Andy Evans:
> On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 01:44:06 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/arts/music/gergiev-putin-vienna-philharmonic-carnegie-hall.html
>>> dk
>
> Ah, so it's all started now. Anything Russian is banned in the USA. I see. The new Cold War starts to bite.

Not just the USA. European concert halls are taking the same stance. If
he doesn't disassociate himself from Putin's war he risks being ditched
by the MÜnchner Philharmonik and Rotterdam.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/arts/music/valery-gergiev-putin-munich-rotterdam.html

--
Frank Lekens

http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/

Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!

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Subject: Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Sat, 26 Feb 2022 09:40 UTC

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 4:16:16 AM UTC-5, Frank Lekens wrote:
>
> Not just the USA. European concert
> halls are taking the same stance. If
> he doesn't disassociate himself from
> Putin's war he risks being ditched
> by the MÜnchner Philharmonik and
> Rotterdam.
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/arts/music/valery-gergiev-putin-munich-rotterdam.html

Serves him right. He is a disgusting
character.

dk

Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!

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 by: Frank Lekens - Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:53 UTC

Op 26-2-2022 om 10:40 schreef Dan Koren:
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 4:16:16 AM UTC-5, Frank Lekens wrote:
>>
>> Not just the USA. European concert
>> halls are taking the same stance. If
>> he doesn't disassociate himself from
>> Putin's war he risks being ditched
>> by the MÜnchner Philharmonik and
>> Rotterdam.
>>
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/arts/music/valery-gergiev-putin-munich-rotterdam.html
>
> Serves him right. He is a disgusting
> character.
>
> dk
>
I didn't really know, but from what I've just read elsewhere about his
previous public statements in defence of Putin (and his draconian anti
gay laws, for instance), I have to agree. In any case I personally would
not be able to enjoy a concert right now conducted by anyone who is such
an outspoken Putin adherent as he is said to have been.

So they're probably doing the right thing cancelling this. Which is what
it will probably come down to. It would be even better, of course, if
once loyal Putin admirers like him started having second thoughts and
spoke out against him. If not now, when? I grant everyone the right to
their own political convictions (maybe even if I find them disgusting
myself); but now it's war, not politics (whatever Von Clausewitz may
have said about their kinship). I just can't understand how anyone could
be in favour of it.

--
Frank Lekens

http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/

Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!

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Subject: Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Sat, 26 Feb 2022 21:37 UTC

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 10:30:54 AM UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:

> Not anything Russian, but anything Putin. There is (and should be) a
> distinction.

If you're blue and you don't know where to go to
Why don't you go where fashion sits?

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66km3m_UE_k&t=32s>

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!

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Subject: Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!
From: dagd...@gmail.com (JohnGavin)
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 by: JohnGavin - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 00:06 UTC

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 4:37:38 PM UTC-5, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 10:30:54 AM UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
>
> > Not anything Russian, but anything Putin. There is (and should be) a
> > distinction.
> If you're blue and you don't know where to go to
> Why don't you go where fashion sits?
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66km3m_UE_k&t=32s>
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

This song belongs to Fred Astaire. Accept no substitutes!

Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!

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Subject: Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 00:07 UTC

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 4:40:24 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 4:16:16 AM UTC-5, Frank Lekens wrote:
> >
> > Not just the USA. European concert
> > halls are taking the same stance. If
> > he doesn't disassociate himself from
> > Putin's war he risks being ditched
> > by the MÜnchner Philharmonik and
> > Rotterdam.
> >
> > https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/arts/music/valery-gergiev-putin-munich-rotterdam.html
>
> Serves him right. He is a disgusting
> character.

Musically as well.

dk

Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!

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Subject: Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 00:38 UTC

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:06:56 AM UTC+11, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 4:37:38 PM UTC-5, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 10:30:54 AM UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
> >
> > > Not anything Russian, but anything Putin. There is (and should be) a
> > > distinction.
> > If you're blue and you don't know where to go to
> > Why don't you go where fashion sits?
> >
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66km3m_UE_k&t=32s>
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> This song belongs to Fred Astaire. Accept no substitutes!

The Fred Astaire version is on You Tube, but miscaptioned as Put It On The Ritz which spoils the pun. Meanwhile, for more toothpick action see
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTEdWlZwQIY&t=8s>

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: No more toothpicks at Carnegie Hall!

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 by: Frank Lekens - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:13 UTC

Op 27-2-2022 om 01:07 schreef Dan Koren:
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 4:40:24 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 4:16:16 AM UTC-5, Frank Lekens wrote:
>>>
>>> Not just the USA. European concert
>>> halls are taking the same stance. If
>>> he doesn't disassociate himself from
>>> Putin's war he risks being ditched
>>> by the MÜnchner Philharmonik and
>>> Rotterdam.
>>>
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/arts/music/valery-gergiev-putin-munich-rotterdam.html
>>
>> Serves him right. He is a disgusting
>> character.
>
> Musically as well.
>
> dk

Well that is just intolerable!

--
Frank Lekens

http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/

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