https://www.reuters.com/world/india/pakistan-rejects-indian-statement-accidental-missile-launch-2022-03-15/

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 12:29:43 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> https://www.reuters.com/world/india/pakistan-rejects-indian-statement-accidental-missile-launch-2022-03-15/

- I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

Albert Einstein

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 9:29:43 PM UTC-10, wrote:
> https://www.reuters.com/world/india/pakistan-rejects-indian-statement-accidental-missile-launch-2022-03-15/

- The progress of rivers to the ocean is not so rapid as that of man to error.

Voltaire

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 12:29:43 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> https://www.reuters.com/world/india/pakistan-rejects-indian-statement-accidental-missile-launch-2022-03-15/

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/8/2/nancy-pelosis-visit-to-taiwan-will-not-trigger-wwiii

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 12:29:43 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> https://www.reuters.com/world/india/pakistan-rejects-indian-statement-accidental-missile-launch-2022-03-15/

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20220720/p2a/00m/0na/009000c

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 12:29:43 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> https://www.reuters.com/world/india/pakistan-rejects-indian-statement-accidental-missile-launch-2022-03-15/

https://news.yahoo.com/moscow-likely-trying-send-message-162613426.html

On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 9:57:47 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 12:29:43 AM UTC-7, wrote:
>
> > https://www.reuters.com/world/india/pakistan-rejects-indian-statement-accidental-missile-launch-2022-03-15/
>
> https://news.yahoo.com/moscow-likely-trying-send-message-162613426.html

WWIII has already started. No
need to pretend otherwise.

dk

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 12:29:43 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> https://www.reuters.com/world/india/pakistan-rejects-indian-statement-accidental-missile-launch-2022-03-15/

https://news.yahoo.com/russian-jet-fired-british-plane-192140185.html

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 12:29:43 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> https://www.reuters.com/world/india/pakistan-rejects-indian-statement-accidental-missile-launch-2022-03-15/

https://news.yahoo.com/malfunctioning-missile-stopped-russian-jet-131238316..html

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 12:29:43 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> https://www.reuters.com/world/india/pakistan-rejects-indian-statement-accidental-missile-launch-2022-03-15/

(Y. upload):

"Noam Chomsky: Are we close to World War III?"

Op dinsdag 18 april 2023 om 21:58:05 UTC+2 schreef gggg gggg:
> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 12:29:43 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > https://www.reuters.com/world/india/pakistan-rejects-indian-statement-accidental-missile-launch-2022-03-15/
> (Y. upload):
>
> "Noam Chomsky: Are we close to World War III?"

Wishful thinking. As Dan said, war already started. Even the Dutch have troops on the ground in Ukraine, although our government assured parliament that we wouldn't do that. If the Democrats stay in power, the war with Russia will continue, if Trump will be the next president, the war with China will become an open war.

Henk

On 2023-04-18 20:40:56 +0000, HT said:

> Op dinsdag 18 april 2023 om 21:58:05 UTC+2 schreef gggg gggg:
>> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 12:29:43 AM UTC-7, wrote:> >
>> https://www.reuters.com/world/india/pakistan-rejects-indian-statement-accidental-missile-launch-2022-03-15/
>>
>> (Y. upload):>> "Noam Chomsky: Are we close to World War III?"
>
> Wishful thinking. As Dan said, war already started. Even the Dutch have
> troops on the ground in Ukraine, although our government assured
> parliament that we wouldn't do that. If the Democrats stay in power,
> the war with Russia will continue, if Trump will be the next president,
> the war with China will become an open war.
>

I'll disagree. My impression of Trump is that he doesn't want any
wars. It's bad for business. That's not to say he might blunder into
a war, but isn't Biden doing that now? Biden's comments about Ukraine
have been more inflammatory than anything else ("Regime change", etc.)
Democrats and neo-conservatives (i.e. Never Trumpers) seem to want to
keep the proxy war machine running at full power.

-Owen

Op woensdag 19 april 2023 om 17:54:02 UTC+2 schreef Owen Hartnett:
>
> I'll disagree. My impression of Trump is that he doesn't want any
> wars. It's bad for business. That's not to say he might blunder into
> a war, but isn't Biden doing that now? Biden's comments about Ukraine
> have been more inflammatory than anything else ("Regime change", etc.)
> Democrats and neo-conservatives (i.e. Never Trumpers) seem to want to
> keep the proxy war machine running at full power.

Recently, Trump gave a speech that didn't make him very popular in the EU. He announced that he would stop participating in the war against Russia. The EU had to pay the bill for that war. Instead, Trump would focus on issues with China.

Henk

On Thursday, 20 April 2023 at 06:27:21 UTC+10, HT wrote:
> Op woensdag 19 april 2023 om 17:54:02 UTC+2 schreef Owen Hartnett:
> >
> > I'll disagree. My impression of Trump is that he doesn't want any
> > wars. It's bad for business. That's not to say he might blunder into
> > a war, but isn't Biden doing that now? Biden's comments about Ukraine
> > have been more inflammatory than anything else ("Regime change", etc.)
> > Democrats and neo-conservatives (i.e. Never Trumpers) seem to want to
> > keep the proxy war machine running at full power.
> Recently, Trump gave a speech that didn't make him very popular in the EU.

Was he ever popular in Europe? News to me.
Even more amazing is that he was popular anywhere.
Sad times.

Ray Hall, Taree

Op donderdag 20 april 2023 om 03:45:38 UTC+2 schreef raymond....@gmail.com:
> On Thursday, 20 April 2023 at 06:27:21 UTC+10, HT wrote:
> > Op woensdag 19 april 2023 om 17:54:02 UTC+2 schreef Owen Hartnett:
> > >
> > > I'll disagree. My impression of Trump is that he doesn't want any
> > > wars. It's bad for business. That's not to say he might blunder into
> > > a war, but isn't Biden doing that now? Biden's comments about Ukraine
> > > have been more inflammatory than anything else ("Regime change", etc.)
> > > Democrats and neo-conservatives (i.e. Never Trumpers) seem to want to
> > > keep the proxy war machine running at full power.
> > Recently, Trump gave a speech that didn't make him very popular in the EU.
> Was he ever popular in Europe? News to me.
> Even more amazing is that he was popular anywhere.
> Sad times.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

Indeed. He did everything to make him unpopular everywhere. Only the republicans did not notice.

Op donderdag 20 april 2023 om 03:45:38 UTC+2 schreef raymond....@gmail.com:
> > Recently, Trump gave a speech that didn't make him very popular in the EU.
> Was he ever popular in Europe? News to me.
> Even more amazing is that he was popular anywhere.
> Sad times.

Every American president in office is popular in the EU. We are like the Minions: looking for a leader (in our case not necessarily the most evil one in history). From our leaders, we accept everything, except for the fact that they don't want to lead us.

Henk

On Thursday, 20 April 2023 at 19:07:38 UTC+10, HT wrote:
> Op donderdag 20 april 2023 om 03:45:38 UTC+2 schreef raymond....gmail.com:
> > > Recently, Trump gave a speech that didn't make him very popular in the EU.
> > Was he ever popular in Europe? News to me.
> > Even more amazing is that he was popular anywhere.
> > Sad times.
> Every American president in office is popular in the EU. We are like the Minions: looking for a leader (in our case not necessarily the most evil one in history). From our leaders, we accept everything, except for the fact that they don't want to lead us.
>
> Henk

Hogwash. This may have been the case, but recent developments, over the last 2-3 decades, is indicative of a shift in perspective. To say that a piece of garbage such as Trump is popular in the EU is beyond belief. The EU only looks to the US because of its military strength, for the simple reason it changed the outcome of WWII, not forgetting the resistance shown by Russia as well. But times have changed drastically. Some US presidents were admired for sure because of their personality and perceived beliefs, and because of their strong belief in democracy, but this seems no longer the case. Biden is too old, and who is going to represent wisdom and restraint going forward is difficult to imagine. Merkel became, for the EU, a leader of some stature, and now the EU, like the US, awaits some kind of strong replacement in mature leadership.

Meanwhile China looks on like a fox in front of a henhouse.

Ray Hall, Taree

On 2023-04-19 20:27:18 +0000, HT said:

> Op woensdag 19 april 2023 om 17:54:02 UTC+2 schreef Owen Hartnett:
>>
>> I'll disagree. My impression of Trump is that he doesn't want any
>> wars. It's bad for business. That's not to say he might blunder into
>> a war, but isn't Biden doing that now? Biden's comments about Ukraine
>> have been more inflammatory than anything else ("Regime change", etc.)
>> Democrats and neo-conservatives (i.e. Never Trumpers) seem to want to
>> keep the proxy war machine running at full power.
>
> Recently, Trump gave a speech that didn't make him very popular in the
> EU. He announced that he would stop participating in the war against
> Russia. The EU had to pay the bill for that war. Instead, Trump would
> focus on issues with China.
>
>

Trump has always been upfront that the US doesn't need to go into an
"endless war" to get what it needs from other countries. He's focusing
about economic issues, not physical might. Trump is first and foremost
a friend of business, which is why the country did so well economically
when he started. Wars are bad for normal business, only good for the
defense industry. A war with Russia that ends in the collapse in the
Russian government might be Joe Biden's top of the wish list, but that
would make China even more wary of a more powerful USA.

A negotiated settlement between Ukraine and Russia would be the best
possible outcome and save probably hundreds of thousands of lives.

China is mostly tolerant of the situation in Taiwan because of fear of
the US, but, in some respects, China can save face by pretending Taiwan
is already part of China, and the US can pretend that it isn't. It's
when this balance is tipped, that China starts getting edgy.

-Owen

On 4/20/2023 1:39 PM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On 2023-04-19 20:27:18 +0000, HT said:
>
>> Op woensdag 19 april 2023 om 17:54:02 UTC+2 schreef Owen Hartnett:
>>>
>>> I'll disagree. My impression of Trump is that he doesn't want any
>>> wars. It's bad for business. That's not to say he might blunder into
>>> a war, but isn't Biden doing that now? Biden's comments about Ukraine
>>> have been more inflammatory than anything else ("Regime change", etc.)
>>> Democrats and neo-conservatives (i.e. Never Trumpers) seem to want to
>>> keep the proxy war machine running at full power.
>>
>> Recently, Trump gave a speech that didn't make him very popular in the EU. He announced that he would stop participating in the war against Russia. The EU had to pay the bill for that war. Instead, Trump would focus on issues with China.
>>
>>
>
>
> Trump has always been upfront that the US doesn't need to go into an "endless war" to get what it needs from other countries.  He's focusing about economic issues, not physical might.  Trump is first and foremost a friend of business, which is why the country did so well economically when he started.  Wars are bad for normal business, only good for the defense industry.  A war with Russia that ends in the collapse in the Russian government might be Joe Biden's top of the wish list, but that would make China even more wary of a more powerful USA.
>

That would be a good thing, no? Unless by "more wary" you mean more likely to strike first. Wishful thinking, perhaps, but I find that implausible.

> A negotiated settlement between Ukraine and Russia would be the best possible outcome and save probably hundreds of thousands of lives.
>
> China is mostly tolerant of the situation in Taiwan because of fear of the US, but, in some respects, China can save face by pretending Taiwan is already part of China, and the US can pretend that it isn't.  It's when this balance is tipped, that China starts getting edgy.
>
> -Owen
>

Op donderdag 20 april 2023 om 15:59:45 UTC+2 schreef raymond....@gmail.com:

> Hogwash. This may have been the case, but recent developments, over the last 2-3 decades, is indicative > of a shift in perspective.

The shift in perspective has been initiated in the US, not the EU. Since Eastern Europe has become or will become part of the EU, the bond with the US has become stronger than ever before. We don't complain when the US sabotages the Nordstream or dictates the Netherlands what ASML may sell to whom.

> To say that a piece of garbage such as Trump is popular in the EU is beyond belief. The EU only looks to the > US because of its military strength, for the simple reason it changed the outcome of WWII

WWII is a long time ago, like the influence of Hollywood. The US and its presidents are popular because of their military and economical leverage.

> ... not forgetting the resistance shown by Russia as well.

That is forgotten since Berlin was taken.

> But times have changed drastically. Some US presidents were admired for sure because of their
> personality and perceived beliefs, and because of their strong belief in democracy, but this seems no
> longer the case. Biden is too old, and who is going to represent wisdom and restraint going forward is
> difficult to imagine.

It's the office, not the person that is admired.

> Merkel became, for the EU, a leader of some stature,

No one cares: she's out of office.

> and now the EU, like the US, awaits some kind of strong replacement in mature leadership.

We expect it from the US. Macron is one of the first to point out that this might be a bad idea but his colleagues aren't interested. The East Europeans are even concerned.

> Meanwhile China looks on like a fox in front of a henhouse.

I'm curious to see how China will deal with India.

Henk

On 2023-04-20 18:07:11 +0000, Frank Berger said:

> On 4/20/2023 1:39 PM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>> On 2023-04-19 20:27:18 +0000, HT said:
>>
>>> Op woensdag 19 april 2023 om 17:54:02 UTC+2 schreef Owen Hartnett:
>>>>
>>>> I'll disagree. My impression of Trump is that he doesn't want any
>>>> wars. It's bad for business. That's not to say he might blunder into
>>>> a war, but isn't Biden doing that now? Biden's comments about Ukraine
>>>> have been more inflammatory than anything else ("Regime change", etc.)
>>>> Democrats and neo-conservatives (i.e. Never Trumpers) seem to want to
>>>> keep the proxy war machine running at full power.
>>>
>>> Recently, Trump gave a speech that didn't make him very popular in the
>>> EU. He announced that he would stop participating in the war against
>>> Russia. The EU had to pay the bill for that war. Instead, Trump would
>>> focus on issues with China.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Trump has always been upfront that the US doesn't need to go into an
>> "endless war" to get what it needs from other countries.  He's focusing
>> about economic issues, not physical might.  Trump is first and foremost
>> a friend of business, which is why the country did so well economically
>> when he started.  Wars are bad for normal business, only good for the
>> defense industry.  A war with Russia that ends in the collapse in the
>> Russian government might be Joe Biden's top of the wish list, but that
>> would make China even more wary of a more powerful USA.
>>
>
> That would be a good thing, no? Unless by "more wary" you mean more
> likely to strike first. Wishful thinking, perhaps, but I find that
> implausible.
>

Supposedly a good thing for us, but if China thinks a collapse of
Russia was caused by the US, doesn't that back China into a
it's-now-or-never corner regarding Taiwan?

-Owen

On 4/21/2023 9:29 AM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On 2023-04-20 18:07:11 +0000, Frank Berger said:
>
>> On 4/20/2023 1:39 PM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>>> On 2023-04-19 20:27:18 +0000, HT said:
>>>
>>>> Op woensdag 19 april 2023 om 17:54:02 UTC+2 schreef Owen Hartnett:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll disagree. My impression of Trump is that he doesn't want any
>>>>> wars. It's bad for business. That's not to say he might blunder into
>>>>> a war, but isn't Biden doing that now? Biden's comments about Ukraine
>>>>> have been more inflammatory than anything else ("Regime change", etc.)
>>>>> Democrats and neo-conservatives (i.e. Never Trumpers) seem to want to
>>>>> keep the proxy war machine running at full power.
>>>>
>>>> Recently, Trump gave a speech that didn't make him very popular in the EU. He announced that he would stop participating in the war against Russia. The EU had to pay the bill for that war. Instead, Trump would focus on issues with China.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Trump has always been upfront that the US doesn't need to go into an "endless war" to get what it needs from other countries.  He's focusing about economic issues, not physical might.  Trump is first and foremost a friend of business, which is why the country did so well economically when he started.  Wars are bad for normal business, only good for the defense industry.  A war with Russia that ends in the collapse in the Russian government might be Joe Biden's top of the wish list, but that would make China even more wary of a more powerful USA.
>>>
>>
>> That would be a good thing, no?  Unless by "more wary" you mean more likely to strike first.  Wishful thinking, perhaps, but I find that implausible.
>>
>
> Supposedly a good thing for us, but if China thinks a collapse of Russia was caused by the US, doesn't that back China into a it's-now-or-never corner regarding Taiwan?
>
> -Owen
>

NIMO. A collapse of Russia will be due do Russia's stupid behavior. China might take a lesson from that. Besides, besides bluster, who knows how much China really wants to take over Taiwan?

On 2023-04-21 15:41:03 +0000, Frank Berger said:

> On 4/21/2023 9:29 AM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>> On 2023-04-20 18:07:11 +0000, Frank Berger said:
>>
>>> On 4/20/2023 1:39 PM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>>>> On 2023-04-19 20:27:18 +0000, HT said:
>>>>
>>>>> Op woensdag 19 april 2023 om 17:54:02 UTC+2 schreef Owen Hartnett:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll disagree. My impression of Trump is that he doesn't want any
>>>>>> wars. It's bad for business. That's not to say he might blunder into
>>>>>> a war, but isn't Biden doing that now? Biden's comments about Ukraine
>>>>>> have been more inflammatory than anything else ("Regime change", etc.)
>>>>>> Democrats and neo-conservatives (i.e. Never Trumpers) seem to want to
>>>>>> keep the proxy war machine running at full power.
>>>>>
>>>>> Recently, Trump gave a speech that didn't make him very popular in the
>>>>> EU. He announced that he would stop participating in the war against
>>>>> Russia. The EU had to pay the bill for that war. Instead, Trump would
>>>>> focus on issues with China.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Trump has always been upfront that the US doesn't need to go into an
>>>> "endless war" to get what it needs from other countries.  He's focusing
>>>> about economic issues, not physical might.  Trump is first and foremost
>>>> a friend of business, which is why the country did so well economically
>>>> when he started.  Wars are bad for normal business, only good for the
>>>> defense industry.  A war with Russia that ends in the collapse in the
>>>> Russian government might be Joe Biden's top of the wish list, but that
>>>> would make China even more wary of a more powerful USA.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That would be a good thing, no?  Unless by "more wary" you mean more
>>> likely to strike first.  Wishful thinking, perhaps, but I find that
>>> implausible.
>>>
>>
>> Supposedly a good thing for us, but if China thinks a collapse of
>> Russia was caused by the US, doesn't that back China into a
>> it's-now-or-never corner regarding Taiwan?
>>
>> -Owen
>>
>
> NIMO. A collapse of Russia will be due do Russia's stupid behavior.
> China might take a lesson from that. Besides, besides bluster, who
> knows how much China really wants to take over Taiwan?

The Triumvirate of US-China-Russia tends to keep each other in balance.
Two gang up against one in all different combinations, so the
intertwining makes direct conflict difficult. Take one away and the
balance is gone.

China

On 4/21/2023 2:08 PM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On 2023-04-21 15:41:03 +0000, Frank Berger said:
>
>> On 4/21/2023 9:29 AM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>>> On 2023-04-20 18:07:11 +0000, Frank Berger said:
>>>
>>>> On 4/20/2023 1:39 PM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-04-19 20:27:18 +0000, HT said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Op woensdag 19 april 2023 om 17:54:02 UTC+2 schreef Owen Hartnett:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll disagree. My impression of Trump is that he doesn't want any
>>>>>>> wars. It's bad for business. That's not to say he might blunder into
>>>>>>> a war, but isn't Biden doing that now? Biden's comments about Ukraine
>>>>>>> have been more inflammatory than anything else ("Regime change", etc.)
>>>>>>> Democrats and neo-conservatives (i.e. Never Trumpers) seem to want to
>>>>>>> keep the proxy war machine running at full power.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Recently, Trump gave a speech that didn't make him very popular in the EU. He announced that he would stop participating in the war against Russia. The EU had to pay the bill for that war. Instead, Trump would focus on issues with China.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Trump has always been upfront that the US doesn't need to go into an "endless war" to get what it needs from other countries.  He's focusing about economic issues, not physical might.  Trump is first and foremost a friend of business, which is why the country did so well economically when he started.  Wars are bad for normal business, only good for the defense industry.  A war with Russia that ends in the collapse in the Russian government might be Joe Biden's top of the wish list, but that would make China even more wary of a more powerful USA.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That would be a good thing, no?  Unless by "more wary" you mean more likely to strike first.  Wishful thinking, perhaps, but I find that implausible.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Supposedly a good thing for us, but if China thinks a collapse of Russia was caused by the US, doesn't that back China into a it's-now-or-never corner regarding Taiwan?
>>>
>>> -Owen
>>>
>>
>> NIMO. A collapse of Russia will be due do Russia's stupid behavior. China might take a lesson from that.  Besides, besides bluster, who knows how much China really wants to take over Taiwan?
>
> The Triumvirate of US-China-Russia tends to keep each other in balance. Two gang up against one in all different combinations, so the intertwining makes direct conflict difficult. Take one away and the balance is gone.
>
> China
>

This makes little sense to me.

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 12:29:43 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> https://www.reuters.com/world/india/pakistan-rejects-indian-statement-accidental-missile-launch-2022-03-15/

https://news.yahoo.com/chinese-ship-blocks-philippine-vessel-095933794.html