On 4/1/2022 3:31 PM, Al Eisner wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, Dan Koren wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 7:17:55 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 7:06:09 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 6:27:42 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No need to upload, unless you think the youtube
>>>>> performance does not illustrate your points.
>>>>>
>>>> I honestly don't have the time to compare the
>>>> two recordings. Tomomi tends to be quite
>>>> consistent in her approach, however the
>>>> orchestras and the venues can probably
>>>> make a difference in her performances.
>>>> One can assume the 2002 recording has
>>>> been cleaned up and retouched if it comes
>>>> from a live performance. It goes without
>>>> saying a studio recording would be clean
>>>> to start with.
>>>>
>>>> It is your call. It takes a few seconds to
>>>> upload it, and I cannot afford to spend
>>>> 2 hours to refresh my impressions. It is
>>>> quite possible the live performance is as
>>>> good as the 2002 one, or even better. Or
>>>> viceversa. Your call if you want it.
>>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5d5fexytra2y2vz/AADaIvA8Omlr8zprZh0AZkCsa?dl=0
>>>
>>> High quality VBR MP3 -- 81 MB total.
>>> I did not upload the FLAC files which
>>> are 3x bigger even at the maximum
>>> compression rate. I will leave them
>>> here during the weekend. Enjoy!
>>
>> I listened to a few snippets from the
>> live performance you posted and
>> checked the overall timings. It is
>> definitely not the same performance
>> as the one on King Records CD#2.
>>
>> The latter runs 38:16, while the live
>> one runs 47:10 from start to end. I
>> did not time the breaks between
>> movements, however one doubts
>> they could add up to 9 minutes!
>> The bits and pieces I listened to
>> sound slower and even more
>> intense than the earlier 2002
>> performance.
>>
>> It is a shame that a conductor of
>> this level does not have long time
>> recording contract with a major
>> record label, or is considered a
>> candidate to lead any top tier
>> Western orchestra.
>>
>> Costco tomorrow.
>>
>> dk
>
> That's an amazingly large time difference.  No. breaks in the youtube
> are short. The first movement was the long one, so maybe it's amatter
> o repeats.
>
> I still wonder there aren't more recordings with Japanese ensembles,
> to add to the older Russian stuff.

FWIW, out of the 42 works included in the 14 CD King box 4 are with the Japan PO, the rest European orchestras. The most recent performance in that box dates to 2011 the earliest 2000. During the period covered she held several positions with Russian orchestras, so perhaps it is not surprising that the box would be European orchestra oriented. I know nothing about her recording history prior to her association with Europe. She was trained in Russia. Is it a little odd that she hasn't recorded in Japan more? Sure. But not very. Perhaps she like living in Europe and perhaps that's where the job opportunities are. Does anyone even ask the question about (mostly male white) European-born conductors who work primarily in the U.S.?

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 1:10:24 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 4/1/2022 3:31 PM, Al Eisner wrote:
> > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5d5fexytra2y2vz/AADaIvA8Omlr8zprZh0AZkCsa?dl=0
> >>>
> >>> High quality VBR MP3 -- 81 MB total.
> >>> I did not upload the FLAC files which
> >>> are 3x bigger even at the maximum
> >>> compression rate. I will leave them
> >>> here during the weekend. Enjoy!
> >>
> >> I listened to a few snippets from the
> >> live performance you posted and
> >> checked the overall timings. It is
> >> definitely not the same performance
> >> as the one on King Records CD#2.
> >>
> >> The latter runs 38:16, while the live
> >> one runs 47:10 from start to end. I
> >> did not time the breaks between
> >> movements, however one doubts
> >> they could add up to 9 minutes!
> >> The bits and pieces I listened to
> >> sound slower and even more
> >> intense than the earlier 2002
> >> performance.
> >>
> >> It is a shame that a conductor of
> >> this level does not have long time
> >> recording contract with a major
> >> record label, or is considered a
> >> candidate to lead any top tier
> >> Western orchestra.
> >
> > That's an amazingly large time difference.
> > No. breaks in the youtube are short. The
> > first movement was the long one, so maybe
> > it's amatter of repeats.
> >
> > I still wonder there aren't more recordings
> > with Japanese ensembles, to add to the
> > older Russian stuff.

Possibly, but they have not showed up on YT
or other streaming providers.

> FWIW, out of the 42 works included in the 14
> CD King box 4 are with the Japan PO, the rest
> European orchestras. The most recent performance
> in that box dates to 2011 the earliest 2000. During
> the period covered she held several positions with
> Russian orchestras, so perhaps it is not surprising
> that the box would be European orchestra oriented.
> I know nothing about her recording history prior to
> her association with Europe. She was trained in Russia.
> Is it a little odd that she hasn't recorded in Japan more?
> Sure. But not very. Perhaps she like living in Europe and
> perhaps that's where the job opportunities are. Does
> anyone even ask the question about (mostly male white)
> European-born conductors who work primarily in the U.S.?

I do not find the scarcity of her recordings surprising.
She appears to suffer from the same kind of neglect
that affected Jasha Horenstein and Celi before he
took over the MPO: she does not have a recording
contract with a major label, and she is not chief
conductor of one of the top Western orchestras
that have contracts with major labels. Beyond
which one can speculated endlessly abour
gender and/or race prejudice. To my ears
she is far and away the best conductor I
heard since Celi's passing, except for
Leif Segerstam.

dk

On 4/1/2022 5:52 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 1:10:24 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 4/1/2022 3:31 PM, Al Eisner wrote:
>>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>
>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5d5fexytra2y2vz/AADaIvA8Omlr8zprZh0AZkCsa?dl=0
>>>>>
>>>>> High quality VBR MP3 -- 81 MB total.
>>>>> I did not upload the FLAC files which
>>>>> are 3x bigger even at the maximum
>>>>> compression rate. I will leave them
>>>>> here during the weekend. Enjoy!
>>>>
>>>> I listened to a few snippets from the
>>>> live performance you posted and
>>>> checked the overall timings. It is
>>>> definitely not the same performance
>>>> as the one on King Records CD#2.
>>>>
>>>> The latter runs 38:16, while the live
>>>> one runs 47:10 from start to end. I
>>>> did not time the breaks between
>>>> movements, however one doubts
>>>> they could add up to 9 minutes!
>>>> The bits and pieces I listened to
>>>> sound slower and even more
>>>> intense than the earlier 2002
>>>> performance.
>>>>
>>>> It is a shame that a conductor of
>>>> this level does not have long time
>>>> recording contract with a major
>>>> record label, or is considered a
>>>> candidate to lead any top tier
>>>> Western orchestra.
>>>
>>> That's an amazingly large time difference.
>>> No. breaks in the youtube are short. The
>>> first movement was the long one, so maybe
>>> it's amatter of repeats.
>>>
>>> I still wonder there aren't more recordings
>>> with Japanese ensembles, to add to the
>>> older Russian stuff.
>
> Possibly, but they have not showed up on YT
> or other streaming providers.
>
>> FWIW, out of the 42 works included in the 14
>> CD King box 4 are with the Japan PO, the rest
>> European orchestras. The most recent performance
>> in that box dates to 2011 the earliest 2000. During
>> the period covered she held several positions with
>> Russian orchestras, so perhaps it is not surprising
>> that the box would be European orchestra oriented.
>> I know nothing about her recording history prior to
>> her association with Europe. She was trained in Russia.
>> Is it a little odd that she hasn't recorded in Japan more?
>> Sure. But not very. Perhaps she like living in Europe and
>> perhaps that's where the job opportunities are. Does
>> anyone even ask the question about (mostly male white)
>> European-born conductors who work primarily in the U.S.?
>
> I do not find the scarcity of her recordings surprising.
> She appears to suffer from the same kind of neglect
> that affected Jasha Horenstein and Celi before he
> took over the MPO: she does not have a recording
> contract with a major label, and she is not chief
> conductor of one of the top Western orchestras
> that have contracts with major labels. Beyond
> which one can speculated endlessly abour
> gender and/or race prejudice. To my ears
> she is far and away the best conductor I
> heard since Celi's passing, except for
> Leif Segerstam.
>
> dk

The target of my allusion to racism and/or sexism was not orchestras so much as the question itself of why she is primarily European-oriented. I hope that was clear. I have no idea if major orchestras (with recording contracts) still discriminate against females or Asians or Martians. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 3:13:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 4/1/2022 5:52 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 1:10:24 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> >>
> >> FWIW, out of the 42 works included in the 14
> >> CD King box 4 are with the Japan PO, the rest
> >> European orchestras. The most recent performance
> >> in that box dates to 2011 the earliest 2000. During
> >> the period covered she held several positions with
> >> Russian orchestras, so perhaps it is not surprising
> >> that the box would be European orchestra oriented.
> >> I know nothing about her recording history prior to
> >> her association with Europe. She was trained in Russia.
> >> Is it a little odd that she hasn't recorded in Japan more?
> >> Sure. But not very. Perhaps she like living in Europe and
> >> perhaps that's where the job opportunities are. Does
> >> anyone even ask the question about (mostly male white)
> >> European-born conductors who work primarily in the U.S.?
> >
> > I do not find the scarcity of her recordings surprising.
> > She appears to suffer from the same kind of neglect
> > that affected Jasha Horenstein and Celi before he
> > took over the MPO: she does not have a recording
> > contract with a major label, and she is not chief
> > conductor of one of the top Western orchestras
> > that have contracts with major labels. Beyond
> > which one can speculated endlessly abour
> > gender and/or race prejudice. To my ears
> > she is far and away the best conductor I
> > heard since Celi's passing, except for
> > Leif Segerstam.
>
> The target of my allusion to racism and/or sexism
> was not orchestras so much as the question itself
> of why she is primarily European-oriented. I hope
> that was clear. I have no idea if major orchestras
> (with recording contracts) still discriminate against
> females or Asians or Martians. I wouldn't be surprised
> either way.

My point was the lack of a recording contract
(at least as far a I know) and not being the chief
conductor of a PR wise "top tier" orchestra. I don't
particularly care about the reasons. There is also
not shortage of Martians among conductors --
starting with Toscaninsky, Mengelbergsky,
Furtwanglersky, Karajansky and Kleibersky.

dk

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 3:13:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 4/1/2022 5:52 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 1:10:24 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> >>
> >> FWIW, out of the 42 works included in the 14
> >> CD King box 4 are with the Japan PO, the rest
> >> European orchestras. The most recent performance
> >> in that box dates to 2011 the earliest 2000. During
> >> the period covered she held several positions with
> >> Russian orchestras, so perhaps it is not surprising
> >> that the box would be European orchestra oriented.
> >> I know nothing about her recording history prior to
> >> her association with Europe. She was trained in Russia.
> >> Is it a little odd that she hasn't recorded in Japan more?
> >> Sure. But not very. Perhaps she like living in Europe and
> >> perhaps that's where the job opportunities are. Does
> >> anyone even ask the question about (mostly male white)
> >> European-born conductors who work primarily in the U.S.?
> >
> > I do not find the scarcity of her recordings surprising.
> > She appears to suffer from the same kind of neglect
> > that affected Jasha Horenstein and Celi before he
> > took over the MPO: she does not have a recording
> > contract with a major label, and she is not chief
> > conductor of one of the top Western orchestras
> > that have contracts with major labels. Beyond
> > which one can speculated endlessly abour
> > gender and/or race prejudice. To my ears
> > she is far and away the best conductor I
> > heard since Celi's passing, except for
> > Leif Segerstam.
>
> The target of my allusion to racism and/or sexism
> was not orchestras so much as the question itself
> of why she is primarily European-oriented. I hope
> that was clear. I have no idea if major orchestras
> (with recording contracts) still discriminate against
> females or Asians or Martians. I wouldn't be surprised
> either way.

My point was the lack of a recording contract with a
major global record label (at least as far a I know)
and not being the chief conductor of a PR-wise
"top tier" orchestra. I don't particularly care about
the reasons for this and I am not speculating about
gender and/or ethnic and/or national discrimnation.
Others can do it better than me. ;-)

There is also no shortage of Martian conductors:
Toscaninsky, Mengelbergsky, Furtwanglersky,
Karajansky and Kleibersky.

dk

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Dan Koren wrote:

> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 1:10:24 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 4/1/2022 3:31 PM, Al Eisner wrote:
>>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>
>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5d5fexytra2y2vz/AADaIvA8Omlr8zprZh0AZkCsa?dl=0
>>>>>
>>>>> High quality VBR MP3 -- 81 MB total.
>>>>> I did not upload the FLAC files which
>>>>> are 3x bigger even at the maximum
>>>>> compression rate. I will leave them
>>>>> here during the weekend. Enjoy!
>>>>
>>>> I listened to a few snippets from the
>>>> live performance you posted and
>>>> checked the overall timings. It is
>>>> definitely not the same performance
>>>> as the one on King Records CD#2.
>>>>
>>>> The latter runs 38:16, while the live
>>>> one runs 47:10 from start to end. I
>>>> did not time the breaks between
>>>> movements, however one doubts
>>>> they could add up to 9 minutes!
>>>> The bits and pieces I listened to
>>>> sound slower and even more
>>>> intense than the earlier 2002
>>>> performance.
>>>>
>>>> It is a shame that a conductor of
>>>> this level does not have long time
>>>> recording contract with a major
>>>> record label, or is considered a
>>>> candidate to lead any top tier
>>>> Western orchestra.
>>>
>>> That's an amazingly large time difference.
>>> No. breaks in the youtube are short. The
>>> first movement was the long one, so maybe
>>> it's amatter of repeats.
>>>
>>> I still wonder there aren't more recordings
>>> with Japanese ensembles, to add to the
>>> older Russian stuff.
>
> Possibly, but they have not showed up on YT
> or other streaming providers.
>
>> FWIW, out of the 42 works included in the 14
>> CD King box 4 are with the Japan PO, the rest
>> European orchestras. The most recent performance
>> in that box dates to 2011 the earliest 2000. During
>> the period covered she held several positions with
>> Russian orchestras, so perhaps it is not surprising
>> that the box would be European orchestra oriented.
>> I know nothing about her recording history prior to
>> her association with Europe. She was trained in Russia.
>> Is it a little odd that she hasn't recorded in Japan more?
>> Sure. But not very. Perhaps she like living in Europe and
>> perhaps that's where the job opportunities are. Does
>> anyone even ask the question about (mostly male white)
>> European-born conductors who work primarily in the U.S.?
>
> I do not find the scarcity of her recordings surprising.
> She appears to suffer from the same kind of neglect
> that affected Jasha Horenstein and Celi before he
> took over the MPO: she does not have a recording
> contract with a major label, and she is not chief
> conductor of one of the top Western orchestras
> that have contracts with major labels. Beyond
> which one can speculated endlessly abour
> gender and/or race prejudice. To my ears
> she is far and away the best conductor I
> heard since Celi's passing, except for
> Leif Segerstam.
>
> dk

Frank's explanation about the geographic mix of recordings up to 2011
is convincing. But what about the subsequent decade? Even without a
recording contract, would not one expect some live youtube recordings
from that more-recent period?
--
Al Eisner

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 7:10:24 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:

> Perhaps she likes living in Europe and perhaps that's where the job opportunities are. Does anyone even ask the question about (mostly male white) European-born conductors who work primarily in the U.S.?

I would like to ask a question about the (mostly male, white) American-born conductors who work primarily in the US.

Where are they?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 3:37:58 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > I do not find the scarcity of her recordings surprising.
> > She appears to suffer from the same kind of neglect
> > that affected Jasha Horenstein and Celi before he
> > took over the MPO: she does not have a recording
> > contract with a major label, and she is not chief
> > conductor of one of the top Western orchestras
> > that have contracts with major labels. Beyond
> > which one can speculated endlessly abour
> > gender and/or race prejudice. To my ears
> > she is far and away the best conductor I
> > heard since Celi's passing, except for
> > Leif Segerstam.
>
> Frank's explanation about the geographic mix of
> recordings up to 2011 is convincing. But what
> about the subsequent decade? Even without a
> recording contract, would not one expect some
> live youtube recordings from that more-recent
> period?

This Tchaikovsky 5th dates from 2018:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXmsd2WZmuI

Otherwise, all the usual factors apply:
who owns the irghts to the recorindgs,
the performers' aggreement to release
and publish, etc.

Tomomi's conert schedule is available
at https://www.tomomi-n.com/en/,
with the next concert scheduled for
May 20.

Her recordings, videos, DVDs and CDs
are listed at
https://www.tomomi-n.com/en/portfolio/

My ears cannot think of a better conductor
on stage today. I also like what I heard of
Igor Manasherov, in particular Romeo and
Francesca:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7IMturSuYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3cW_NTZDOo

dk

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 3:37:58 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:
>
> Frank's explanation about the geographic mix of
> recordings up to 2011 is convincing. But what
> about the subsequent decade? Even without a
> recording contract, would not one expect some
> live youtube recordings from that more-recent
> period?

September 15, 2019:

https://www.facebook.com/EWTNVatican/videos/2730485176983323

dk

Op 2022-04-01 om 05:44 schreef Dan Koren:
> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 7:58:50 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
>>
>> It is a shame that a conductor of
>> this stature does not have a long
>> time recording contract with any
>> major record label, or can be a
>> candidate to lead any top tier
>> Western orchestra.
>>
>
> Tomomi also conducted the
> premiere of the reconstructed
> Tchaikovsky 7th symphony,
> which is actually his 6th
> while the Pathetique is
> actually his 7th:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggcfUOol5fE
>
> But wait! Manfred is actually
> the 5th, so the 5th is actually
> the 6th, the 7th is actually the
> 7th, and the Pathetique is
> actually the 8th! How did
> we end up with such a
> mess?

Alto released a box with all 8 symphonies in 2013, most of them
conducted by Rozhdestvensky; the 7th conducted by Skripka.
The reconstructed 7th symphony was also recorded by Ormandy (1962) and
Neeme Järvi (on Chandos) and Kitajenko (Oehms), and maybe others as well.

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 3:43:42 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
>
> The reconstructed 7th symphony was
> also recorded by Ormandy (1962) and
> Neeme Järvi (on Chandos) and Kitajenko
> (Oehms), and maybe others as well.

Those are the Bogatyrev reconstruction.

Tomomi conducted the premiere of the
more recent Klimov reconstruction.

dk

Op 2022-04-02 om 12:50 schreef Dan Koren:
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 3:43:42 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
>>
>> The reconstructed 7th symphony was
>> also recorded by Ormandy (1962) and
>> Neeme Järvi (on Chandos) and Kitajenko
>> (Oehms), and maybe others as well.
>
> Those are the Bogatyrev reconstruction.
>
> Tomomi conducted the premiere of the
> more recent Klimov reconstruction.
>
> dk

Does it matter?
No.
It's the same piece and sounds like the same piece.

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Dan Koren wrote:

> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 3:37:58 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:
>> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>
>>> I do not find the scarcity of her recordings surprising.
>>> She appears to suffer from the same kind of neglect
>>> that affected Jasha Horenstein and Celi before he
>>> took over the MPO: she does not have a recording
>>> contract with a major label, and she is not chief
>>> conductor of one of the top Western orchestras
>>> that have contracts with major labels. Beyond
>>> which one can speculated endlessly abour
>>> gender and/or race prejudice. To my ears
>>> she is far and away the best conductor I
>>> heard since Celi's passing, except for
>>> Leif Segerstam.
>>
>> Frank's explanation about the geographic mix of
>> recordings up to 2011 is convincing. But what
>> about the subsequent decade? Even without a
>> recording contract, would not one expect some
>> live youtube recordings from that more-recent
>> period?
>
> This Tchaikovsky 5th dates from 2018:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXmsd2WZmuI

Thanks. But still a Russian orchestra. Posted, by the way, on a
channel "Female Conductors".

> Otherwise, all the usual factors apply:
> who owns the irghts to the recorindgs,
> the performers' aggreement to release
> and publish, etc.
>
> Tomomi's conert schedule is available
> at https://www.tomomi-n.com/en/,
> with the next concert scheduled for
> May 20.

One program (given twice) with JPO, then nothing else for the rest of
the year except two concerts with IlluminArt (her own arts group?). She
Is she underappreciated in Japan?
>
> Her recordings, videos, DVDs and CDs
> are listed at
> https://www.tomomi-n.com/en/portfolio/
>
> My ears cannot think of a better conductor
> on stage today. I also like what I heard of
> Igor Manasherov, in particular Romeo and
> Francesca:

A revisionist text? Romeo somehow survives the goings-on in Verona and
turns up in Rimini....
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7IMturSuYM
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3cW_NTZDOo
>
> dk
--
Al Eisner

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 1:29:52 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > This Tchaikovsky 5th dates from 2018:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXmsd2WZmuI
>
> Thanks. But still a Russian orchestra. Posted,
> by the way, on a channel "Female Conductors".

"still a Russian orchestra" ?!? What does
this mean? Do you object to Russian
orchestras ?!?

> > Tomomi's conert schedule is available
> > at https://www.tomomi-n.com/en/,
> > with the next concert scheduled for
> > May 20.
>
> One program (given twice) with JPO, then
> nothing else for the rest of the year except
> two concerts with IlluminArt (her own arts
> group?). Is she underappreciated in Japan?

She is underappreciated everywhere.

> > Her recordings, videos, DVDs and CDs
> > are listed at
> > https://www.tomomi-n.com/en/portfolio/
> >
> > My ears cannot think of a better conductor
> > on stage today. I also like what I heard of
> > Igor Manasherov, in particular Romeo and
> > Francesca:
>
> A revisionist text? Romeo somehow survives
> the goings-on in Verona and turns up in Rimini....

Not at all, just shorthand.

dk

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 9:58:53 AM UTC+11, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 7:10:24 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> > Perhaps she likes living in Europe and perhaps that's where the job opportunities are. Does anyone even ask the question about (mostly male white) European-born conductors who work primarily in the U.S.?
>
> I would like to ask a question about the (mostly male, white) American-born conductors who work primarily in the US.
>
> Where are they?
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

You see, Britain has its own conductors for its major orchestras, as do the Germans, the French and even Gallant Little Belgium - I don't know about the Italians - gone are the glory days of 1950s-1960s when Italy was a byword for cinema, modernism (Berio, Dallapiccola, Moderna) and design.). But the USA seems to prefer to import elderly gentlemen with reassuringly Central European names. Of the exceptions, Marin Allsop seems to have been more popular in the UK than in America at one stage of her career.

Do young men go to Julliard with a baton in their knapsacks, whispering to themselves, Today the Orchestra of the Paris* Conservatoire, tomorrow the world ...?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

*Paris, Texas of course

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 5:32:45 PM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> *Paris, Texas of course

There are more than 20 Parises in the US.
More than in any other country in the world.

dk

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 5:32:45 PM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 9:58:53 AM UTC+11, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 7:10:24 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> >
> > > Perhaps she likes living in Europe and perhaps that's where the job opportunities are. Does anyone even ask the question about (mostly male white) European-born conductors who work primarily in the U.S.?
> >
> > I would like to ask a question about the (mostly male, white) American-born conductors who work primarily in the US.
> >
> > Where are they?
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> You see, Britain has its own conductors for its major orchestras, as do the Germans, the French and even Gallant Little Belgium - I don't know about the Italians - gone are the glory days of 1950s-1960s when Italy was a byword for cinema, modernism (Berio, Dallapiccola, Moderna) and design.). But the USA seems to prefer to import elderly gentlemen with reassuringly Central European names. Of the exceptions, Marin Allsop seems to have been more popular in the UK than in America at one stage of her career.
>
> Do young men go to Julliard with a baton in their knapsacks, whispering to themselves, Today the Orchestra of the Paris* Conservatoire, tomorrow the world ...?
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra
>
> *Paris, Texas of course

Ah, the booster shot I got awhile back must've been from "Maderna" then. ;-)

Things have changed considerably here in the US. From here in the suburbs of Los Angeles, it looks like most orchestras in the country are trying to find ways of unloading their elderly Central European gentlemen conductors. Of the top six orchestras in the country, only half (Chicago, Cleveland, and NYC) have such music directors; of those, one is certainly stepping down in the near future (Zweden) and another seems as if they're preparing to leave (Muti). I wouldn't be surprised if Frankly Worse Than Most announces his departure in the next year or so too. What American orchestras want right now—from the majors down to community ensembles—are music directors who are young, photogenic, and preferably neither male nor white (bonus points if they also happen to identify as a sexual minority).

At least here in Los Angeles, my hunch is that The Dude will not be extending his contract, will go to either NYC or maybe even Europe, and that his successor will be a woman (likely Susanna Mälkki or MGT).

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 11:26:15 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
> Op 2022-04-02 om 12:50 schreef Dan Koren:
> > On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 3:43:42 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
> >>
> >> The reconstructed 7th symphony was
> >> also recorded by Ormandy (1962) and
> >> Neeme Järvi (on Chandos) and Kitajenko
> >> (Oehms), and maybe others as well.
> >
> > Those are the Bogatyrev reconstruction.
> >
> > Tomomi conducted the premiere of the
> > more recent Klimov reconstruction.
>
> Does it matter?

Possibly, to some people.

> No.

Speak for yourself.

> It's the same piece and sounds like the same piece.

Not really, Klimov's version has only 3
movements, and different orchestral
touches can be clearly heard here
and there.

dk

On 4/2/22 8:32 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 9:58:53 AM UTC+11, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 7:10:24 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps she likes living in Europe and perhaps that's where the job opportunities are. Does anyone even ask the question about (mostly male white) European-born conductors who work primarily in the U.S.?
>>
>> I would like to ask a question about the (mostly male, white) American-born conductors who work primarily in the US.
>>
>> Where are they?
>>
>> Andrew Clarke
>> Canberra
>
> You see, Britain has its own conductors for its major orchestras, as do the Germans, the French and even Gallant Little Belgium - I don't know about the Italians - gone are the glory days of 1950s-1960s when Italy was a byword for cinema, modernism (Berio, Dallapiccola, Moderna) and design.). But the USA seems to prefer to import elderly gentlemen with reassuringly Central European names. Of the exceptions, Marin Allsop seems to have been more popular in the UK than in America at one stage of her career.
>
> Do young men go to Julliard with a baton in their knapsacks, whispering to themselves, Today the Orchestra of the Paris* Conservatoire, tomorrow the world ...?
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra
>
> *Paris, Texas of course

Old adage: "The expert is always from out of town."

-Owen

Op 2022-04-03 om 03:50 schreef Dan Koren:
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 11:26:15 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
>> Op 2022-04-02 om 12:50 schreef Dan Koren:
>>> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 3:43:42 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The reconstructed 7th symphony was
>>>> also recorded by Ormandy (1962) and
>>>> Neeme Järvi (on Chandos) and Kitajenko
>>>> (Oehms), and maybe others as well.
>>>
>>> Those are the Bogatyrev reconstruction.
>>>
>>> Tomomi conducted the premiere of the
>>> more recent Klimov reconstruction.
>>
>> Does it matter?
>
> Possibly, to some people.
>
>> No.
>
> Speak for yourself.
>

As we all know, I always speak for myself (not yourself).

On 4/3/2022 10:15 AM, Gerard wrote:
> Op 2022-04-03 om 03:50 schreef Dan Koren:
>> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 11:26:15 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
>>> Op 2022-04-02 om 12:50 schreef Dan Koren:
>>>> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 3:43:42 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The reconstructed 7th symphony was
>>>>> also recorded by Ormandy (1962) and
>>>>> Neeme Järvi (on Chandos) and Kitajenko
>>>>> (Oehms), and maybe others as well.
>>>>
>>>> Those are the Bogatyrev reconstruction.
>>>>
>>>> Tomomi conducted the premiere of the
>>>> more recent Klimov reconstruction.
>>>
>>> Does it matter?
>>
>> Possibly, to some people.
>>
>>> No.
>>
>> Speak for yourself.
>>
>
> As we all know, I always speak for myself (not yourself).
>

Gerard is one of those people who inexplicably doesn't know that when someone says something he is speaking for themself. He imagines that people are telling him what he has to think.

On 4/3/2022 11:49 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 4/3/2022 10:15 AM, Gerard wrote:
>> Op 2022-04-03 om 03:50 schreef Dan Koren:
>>> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 11:26:15 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
>>>> Op 2022-04-02 om 12:50 schreef Dan Koren:
>>>>> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 3:43:42 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reconstructed 7th symphony was
>>>>>> also recorded by Ormandy (1962) and
>>>>>> Neeme Järvi (on Chandos) and Kitajenko
>>>>>> (Oehms), and maybe others as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Those are the Bogatyrev reconstruction.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tomomi conducted the premiere of the
>>>>> more recent Klimov reconstruction.
>>>>
>>>> Does it matter?
>>>
>>> Possibly, to some people.
>>>
>>>> No.
>>>
>>> Speak for yourself.
>>>
>>
>> As we all know, I always speak for myself (not yourself).
>>
>
> Gerard is one of those people who inexplicably doesn't know that when someone says something he is speaking for themself.  He imagines that people are telling him what he has to think.
himself

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 11:04:11 AM UTC+10, Néstor Castiglione wrote:

> Things have changed considerably here in the US. From here in the suburbs of Los Angeles, it looks like most orchestras in the country are trying to find ways of unloading their elderly Central European gentlemen conductors.. Of the top six orchestras in the country, only half (Chicago, Cleveland, and NYC) have such music directors; of those, one is certainly stepping down in the near future (Zweden) and another seems as if they're preparing to leave (Muti). I wouldn't be surprised if Frankly Worse Than Most announces his departure in the next year or so too. What American orchestras want right now—from the majors down to community ensembles—are music directors who are young, photogenic, and preferably neither male nor white (bonus points if they also happen to identify as a sexual minority).
>
> At least here in Los Angeles, my hunch is that The Dude will not be extending his contract, will go to either NYC or maybe even Europe, and that his successor will be a woman (likely Susanna Mälkki or MGT).

Thanks, Nestor,

That rules out Sir Mark Elder, Sir Antony Pappano, Sir Simon Rattle, Daniel Harding and Robin Ticciati. All straight, white males. And Sir Mark is getting on a bit.

Ondrew Clarke
Conberro.