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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: WAYLTL Beethoven Harnoncourt

SubjectAuthor
* WAYLTL Beethoven HarnoncourtEd Presson
+- Re: WAYLTL Beethoven Harnoncourtnumber_six
+- Re: WAYLTL Beethoven Harnoncourtraymond....@gmail.com
+- Re: WAYLTL Beethoven HarnoncourtJonathan Ben Schragadove
`* Re: WAYLTL Beethoven HarnoncourtMELMOTH
 `- Re: WAYLTL Beethoven HarnoncourtMELMOTH

1
WAYLTL Beethoven Harnoncourt

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From: pep...@comcast.net (Ed Presson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: WAYLTL Beethoven Harnoncourt
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 22:04:05 -0700
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 by: Ed Presson - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 05:04 UTC

Beethoven: 9 Symphonies. The Chamber Orchestra of Europe, Nikolaus
Harnoncourt, cond.
Teldec 2292-46452-2 (5 CDs).

This box has been sitting on a shelf for two decades since I first listened
to them. I could
not remember what I thought of them, nor could I remember why I had not
returned to them.
So, over a two-week period, I listened to all nine. I guess my reaction is
similar to this
famous bit of doggerel:

I do not like thee, Doctor Fell,
The reason why I cannot tell,
But this I know and know full well,
I do not like thee, Doctor Fell

Anyone have a more coherent reaction to these performances?

Ed Presson

Re: WAYLTL Beethoven Harnoncourt

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Subject: Re: WAYLTL Beethoven Harnoncourt
From: cyberi...@hotmail.com (number_six)
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 by: number_six - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 00:51 UTC

On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 10:04:11 PM UTC-7, Ed Presson wrote:
> Beethoven: 9 Symphonies. The Chamber Orchestra of Europe, Nikolaus
> Harnoncourt, cond.
> Teldec 2292-46452-2 (5 CDs).
>
> This box has been sitting on a shelf for two decades since I first listened
> to them. I could
> not remember what I thought of them, nor could I remember why I had not
> returned to them.
> So, over a two-week period, I listened to all nine. I guess my reaction is
> similar to this
> famous bit of doggerel:
>
> I do not like thee, Doctor Fell,
> The reason why I cannot tell,
> But this I know and know full well,
> I do not like thee, Doctor Fell
>
> Anyone have a more coherent reaction to these performances?
>
> Ed Presson
I can't say my reaction was more coherent, but it was certainly more favorable!

I liked Harnoncourt's Beethoven. Orchestral sound was neither bombastic nor timid.
Tempi were well-fitted to the strengths of the composer's familiar but enduringly powerful body of symphonic expression.

Re: WAYLTL Beethoven Harnoncourt

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Subject: Re: WAYLTL Beethoven Harnoncourt
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 by: raymond....@gmail.co - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 02:42 UTC

On Monday, 25 April 2022 at 15:04:11 UTC+10, Ed Presson wrote:
> Beethoven: 9 Symphonies. The Chamber Orchestra of Europe, Nikolaus
> Harnoncourt, cond.
> Teldec 2292-46452-2 (5 CDs).
>
> This box has been sitting on a shelf for two decades since I first listened
> to them. I could
> not remember what I thought of them, nor could I remember why I had not
> returned to them.
> So, over a two-week period, I listened to all nine. I guess my reaction is
> similar to this
> famous bit of doggerel:
>
> I do not like thee, Doctor Fell,
> The reason why I cannot tell,
> But this I know and know full well,
> I do not like thee, Doctor Fell
>
> Anyone have a more coherent reaction to these performances?
>
> Ed Presson

My feelings are mixed, a bit like yours also, as I find Harnoncourt hardly presents a coherent view of things musically, at least to these ears. I never really know what to expect. I find him a bit erratic, a tad rhetorical, and a bit of a mixed bag. As I hardly visit this repertoire much, I prefer to stay with those I can trust to present the music, such as Walter, Blomstedt, or Cluytens. Therefore it seems very unlikely I'll ever visit Harnoncourt in preference, even though I have the full orchestral set of LvB with Harnoncourt and the COE, complete with Overtures and the pcs with Aimard.

Maybe I should visit the Overtures in this set, and maybe he does these more to my liking.

Ray Hall, Taree

Re: WAYLTL Beethoven Harnoncourt

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Subject: Re: WAYLTL Beethoven Harnoncourt
From: ybschrag...@gmail.com (Jonathan Ben Schragadove)
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 by: Jonathan Ben Schraga - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 06:36 UTC

On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 10:04:11 PM UTC-7, Ed Presson wrote:
> Beethoven: 9 Symphonies. The Chamber Orchestra of Europe, Nikolaus
> Harnoncourt, cond.
> Teldec 2292-46452-2 (5 CDs).
>
> This box has been sitting on a shelf for two decades since I first listened
> to them. I could
> not remember what I thought of them, nor could I remember why I had not
> returned to them.
> So, over a two-week period, I listened to all nine. I guess my reaction is
> similar to this
> famous bit of doggerel:
>
> I do not like thee, Doctor Fell,
> The reason why I cannot tell,
> But this I know and know full well,
> I do not like thee, Doctor Fell
>
> Anyone have a more coherent reaction to these performances?
>
> Ed Presson

There's what sounds to me like a wrong note in the second chord of the Eroica. That didn't put me in the best frame of mind when trying to explore this cycle...

Re: WAYLTL Beethoven Harnoncourt

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Subject: Re: WAYLTL Beethoven Harnoncourt
From: theom...@free.fr (MELMOTH)
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 by: MELMOTH - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 13:53 UTC

Dans son message précédent, Ed Presson a écrit :
> Anyone have a more coherent reaction to these performances?

For me, the best integral of this cycle is the one of *Hermann
SCHERCHEN* (live) with the orchestra of the Swiss Italian TV in Lugano
(you can find it on YT)...Absolutely fabulous and miraculous...And
moreover very well recorded)...[Nothing to see with the mono cycle of
DG]...And by looking well, you can find the repetitions of the
cycle...Exhilarating and damn exciting !...

It is very difficult for me to go back to other recordings (and I must
have more than a hundred of them in the collection!) after having
(re)listened to it...

I have never understood why Harnoncourt was acclaimed with such success
by the critics...

Re: WAYLTL Beethoven Harnoncourt

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Subject: Re: WAYLTL Beethoven Harnoncourt
From: theom...@free.fr (MELMOTH)
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 by: MELMOTH - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 14:43 UTC

MELMOTH a exprimé avec précision :
> It is very difficult for me to go back to other recordings (and I must have
> more than a hundred of them in the collection!) after having (re)listened to
> it...

And since we are talking about Scherchen...I am listening to the piano
concertos by this Genius with Paul Badura-Skoda (good mono from the
50's ....Except the C minor in stereo)...
Can we "do" better?...I don't ask the question...

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