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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

SubjectAuthor
* A fabulous game changing new D960Mandryka
+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Mandryka
|`* is that a modern piano? pretty bad soundABAB
| `* Re: is that a modern piano? pretty bad soundABAB
|  +- Re: is that a modern piano? pretty bad soundABDan Koren
|  `- Re: is that a modern piano? pretty bad soundABLewis Perin
+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
|`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Graham
| +* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| |`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| | `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |  `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| |   `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |    +* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| |    |+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |    ||`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| |    || `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |    ||  `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| |    |`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |    | `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| |    `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960maxi...@gmail.com
| |     +* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |     |`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960maxi...@gmail.com
| |     | `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |     `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |      `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960maxi...@gmail.com
| |       `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
+- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Ricardo Jimenez
+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
|+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Andy Evans
||`- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
|`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960cheregi
| +- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Andrew Clarke
| +* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960JohnGavin
| |+- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| ||+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |||+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| ||||`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960cheregi
| |||| +- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| |||| +* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Andrew Clarke
| |||| |`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |||| | +* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Graham
| |||| | |`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |||| | | `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Graham
| |||| | |  `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |||| | |   `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Graham
| |||| | |    `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |||| | `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Andrew Clarke
| |||| `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| ||||  `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |||`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960JohnGavin
| ||| `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| ||`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| || +* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| || |`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| || | `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960AB
| || |  `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| || `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| ||  `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960AB
| ||   `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| ||    `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960AB
| ||     `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |`- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960cheregi
| `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
|+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960JohnGavin
||`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
|| `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960JohnGavin
||  `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
|`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Mandryka
|  `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Andrew Clarke
 +- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
 `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Owen
  `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Paul Alsing

Pages:1234
Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

<606c8347-0060-44db-804e-0112b52bb789n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dagd...@gmail.com (JohnGavin)
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 by: JohnGavin - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 09:55 UTC

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 5:48:40 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 11:32:33 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
> > Love ❤️ it
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5lbkWoY3Lw
> Can you elaborate on what exactly is
> "fabulous" in this performance, and
> how is it game changing?
>
> Thanks!
>
> dk

Slow movement only, unfortunately:

https://youtu.be/v7WinxPU-ZA

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

<187c1744-1b35-4be5-b94b-49513d40d672n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 11:29 UTC

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 2:55:27 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 5:48:40 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 11:32:33 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
> > > Love ❤️ it
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5lbkWoY3Lw
> > Can you elaborate on what exactly is
> > "fabulous" in this performance, and
> > how is it game changing?
> >
> > Thanks!
>
> Slow movement only, unfortunately:
>
> https://youtu.be/v7WinxPU-ZA

Of course -- well known.
Have you heard Queen
Khatia's? Or Bozhanov?

dk

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dagd...@gmail.com (JohnGavin)
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 by: JohnGavin - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:48 UTC

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 7:29:16 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 2:55:27 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 5:48:40 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 11:32:33 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
> > > > Love ❤️ it
> > > >
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5lbkWoY3Lw
> > > Can you elaborate on what exactly is
> > > "fabulous" in this performance, and
> > > how is it game changing?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> >
> > Slow movement only, unfortunately:
> >
> > https://youtu.be/v7WinxPU-ZA
> Of course -- well known.

How is it well known? He never recorded it commercially, and all there is is this pirated recording of the slow movement.

> Have you heard Queen
> Khatia's?

Not a fan. She seems to think she’s Greta Garbo.

I’ll take Yuja over her every time!
>

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

<t4bulv$agb$1@hope.eyrie.org>

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From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:31:43 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <t4bulv$agb$1@hope.eyrie.org>
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 by: Todd M. McComb - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:31 UTC

In article <c5a22f8a-10a8-4088-9c7a-8aff96bf9e71n@googlegroups.com>,
Dan Koren <dan.koren@gmail.com> wrote:
>Can you elaborate on what exactly is "fabulous" in this performance,
>and how is it game changing?

On first audition, it didn't come off as nearly as radical as e.g.
the Koch performance recently raised here as well. I didn't find
the reading to be particularly triggering in any way. But I'll
revisit at some point....

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: howie.st...@gmail.com (Mandryka)
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 by: Mandryka - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 18:19 UTC

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 6:31:48 PM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <c5a22f8a-10a8-4088...@googlegroups.com>,
> Dan Koren <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Can you elaborate on what exactly is "fabulous" in this performance,
> >and how is it game changing?
> On first audition, it didn't come off as nearly as radical as e.g.
> the Koch performance recently raised here as well. I didn't find
> the reading to be particularly triggering in any way. But I'll
> revisit at some point....

The obvious difference between the Koch and this is that she takes it at the right tempo. Koch is good, but very creative.

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

<t4c2hq$c9o$1@hope.eyrie.org>

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From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 18:37:46 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <t4c2hq$c9o$1@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <1fc80859-f3d0-4f5f-8214-b983922042f8n@googlegroups.com> <c5a22f8a-10a8-4088-9c7a-8aff96bf9e71n@googlegroups.com> <t4bulv$agb$1@hope.eyrie.org> <3f4b5369-9ff8-46e0-85cb-8e53da05ab0fn@googlegroups.com>
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 by: Todd M. McComb - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 18:37 UTC

In article <3f4b5369-9ff8-46e0-85cb-8e53da05ab0fn@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie.stone01@gmail.com> wrote:
>The obvious difference between the Koch and this is that she takes
>it at the right tempo.

From Ito, I also hear what is basically mid-20th century fingering
at various spots....

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 07:54 UTC

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 6:48:56 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 7:29:16 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 2:55:27 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> > > https://youtu.be/v7WinxPU-ZA
> > Of course -- well known.
>
> How is it well known? He never recorded it
> commercially, and all there is is this pirated
> recording of the slow movement.

Well known by people who follow the action
on YouTube. The entire recutal was posted
for a short time, then removed.

> > Have you heard Queen Khatia's?
>
> Not a fan. She seems to think she’s Greta Garbo.
> I’ll take Yuja over her every time!

?!? AFAIK there is no D.960
performance by La Wang
that one can find online.
Can you provide a link?

dk

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: elirke...@gmail.com (cheregi)
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 by: cheregi - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:10 UTC

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 2:31:25 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 11:32:33 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
> > Love ❤️ it
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5lbkWoY3Lw
> This sounds more metronomic and mechanical than
> any performance I have ever heard. It is beyond my
> understanding how anyone could possible like this.
>
> Flush your ears with this:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1oNW4SnGWQ
>
> dk

From Wikipedia: "One review of his [Afanassiev's] recording of Schubert's last three piano sonatas stated: "the perversity encountered here so angered me that I felt I could not dignify what I found here with any kind of coherent analysis". You just can't get this kind of writing in popular music criticism...

What is it about the sound of old fortepianos that is so viscerally unappealing to some of you? I'm at such a loss to tap into that way of hearing that I remain half-convinced you're all just convincing yourselves afresh each time out of ideological necessity, but I know you probably feel the same about fortepiano-enjoyers. Comparing the Ito and the Afanassiev, for example, even though I probably prefer the latter performance, the former's instrument just has such a warmer and mellower tone, and produces such a wider variety of sounds, Afanassiev can't help but sound sort of shrill by comparison. At least that's how it hits my ears.

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:46 UTC

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 4:32:33 AM UTC+10, Mandryka wrote:
> Love ❤️ it
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5lbkWoY3Lw

I love it too. Don't worry about Desperate Dan's comments - he has only ever liked five pianos ever made, and three of them got flattened at First Manassas. Or First Bull Run if you prefer.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:58 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 11:10:27 PM UTC+10, cheregi wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 2:31:25 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 11:32:33 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
> > > Love ❤️ it
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5lbkWoY3Lw
> > This sounds more metronomic and mechanical than
> > any performance I have ever heard. It is beyond my
> > understanding how anyone could possible like this.
> >
> > Flush your ears with this:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1oNW4SnGWQ
> >
> > dk
> From Wikipedia: "One review of his [Afanassiev's] recording of Schubert's last three piano sonatas stated: "the perversity encountered here so angered me that I felt I could not dignify what I found here with any kind of coherent analysis". You just can't get this kind of writing in popular music criticism...
>
> What is it about the sound of old fortepianos that is so viscerally unappealing to some of you? I'm at such a loss to tap into that way of hearing that I remain half-convinced you're all just convincing yourselves afresh each time out of ideological necessity, but I know you probably feel the same about fortepiano-enjoyers. Comparing the Ito and the Afanassiev, for example, even though I probably prefer the latter performance, the former's instrument just has such a warmer and mellower tone, and produces such a wider variety of sounds, Afanassiev can't help but sound sort of shrill by comparison. At least that's how it hits my ears.

Cherigi, I feel the same way about the more violent critical reactions to HIP orchestral music with or without fortepianos. Is it an American thing, or is it also found elsewhere? And no, I'm not arguing that all music *has* to be played on original instruments, and I haven't heard of anybody that does.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dagd...@gmail.com (JohnGavin)
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 by: JohnGavin - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:52 UTC

>
> What is it about the sound of old fortepianos that is so viscerally unappealing to some of you? I'm at such a loss to tap into that way of hearing that I remain half-convinced you're all just convincing yourselves afresh each time out of ideological necessity, but I know you probably feel the same about fortepiano-enjoyers. Comparing the Ito and the Afanassiev, for example, even though I probably prefer the latter performance, the former's instrument just has such a warmer and mellower tone, and produces such a wider variety of sounds, Afanassiev can't help but sound sort of shrill by comparison. At least that's how it hits my ears.

It’s really not very complicated. Why do people dislike the taste of grapefruits? I just don’t get it. (Actually I do). I hold the very unpopular opinion that revival harpsichords are more enjoyable to hear than “authentic” ones. I could write about why I feel that way, but why bother? It is what it is.

I once heard someone comment that fortepianos sound like modern pianos that fell into a lake and were fished out a week later. Every time I hear one, that’s the image that keeps returning.

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:59 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 6:46:55 AM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 4:32:33 AM UTC+10, Mandryka wrote:
> > Love ❤️ it
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5lbkWoY3Lw
> I love it too. Don't worry about Desperate Dan's comments -
> he has only ever liked five pianos ever made, and three of
> them got flattened at First Manassas. Or First Bull Run if
> you prefer.

Bullshit! It's the music, stupid, not the pianos.
Debussy, Ravel, Scriabin and Rachmaninov
do not sound palatable on popsichords.

Neither does driving 1930s antique cars
compare with driving 2020 Audis.

Case closed.

dk

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:02 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 6:10:27 AM UTC-7, cheregi wrote:
>
> What is it about the sound of old fortepianos
> that is so viscerally unappealing to some of you?

Not viscerally, but aurally. We do not listen with
our stomachs -- or at least I don't. How about
things like pitch and timbre and resonance?
Or dynamic range?

Do you, or would you, drive, a 1930s car
instead of a modern one?

dk

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:05 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 7:52:41 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
>
> I once heard someone comment that
> fortepianos sound like modern pianos
> that fell into a lake and were fished out
> a week later.

Nope -- years later!

dk

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:21:00 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
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 by: Todd M. McComb - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:21 UTC

In article <9a8746dd-f2ab-4d96-a387-58eebcd817acn@googlegroups.com>,
JohnGavin <dagdern@gmail.com> wrote:
>I once heard someone comment that fortepianos sound like modern
>pianos that fell into a lake and were fished out a week later.

It's a funny line. The first time I heard a fortepiano, what I
heard was wood, a lot of wood.... The big modern pianos sound like
steel. That's the big difference... that hard, shimmering steel.
I mean, they have their sound too.

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:29 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:21:05 AM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <9a8746dd-f2ab-4d96...@googlegroups.com>,
> JohnGavin <dag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I once heard someone comment
> > that fortepianos sound like modern
> > pianos that fell into a lake and were
> > fished out a week later.
>
> It's a funny line. The first time I
> heard a fortepiano, what I heard
> was wood, a lot of wood.... The
> big modern pianos sound like
> steel. That's the big difference...
> that hard, shimmering steel. I
> mean, they have their sound too.

Stoneways sound like steel. In fact,
the Soneway sound may be one of
the reasons for renewed interest in
woodsy sounding instruments of
torture.

Listen to a Fazioli, a Bechstein, or
even a Pleyel with a modern action,
and forget about the woodsichords.

The variety of tone, timbre, texture
and articulation possible on modern
pianos is in a completely different
league than on woodsichords.

Does anyone think playing like
this is possible on clumsichords?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw1D2EpdhhY

dk

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:32 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:21:05 AM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
>
> The big modern pianos sound like
> steel. That's the big difference...
> that hard, shimmering steel.

You forgot to mention the steelier
tone produced by modern pianos
results from higher string tension
required to produce higher sound
levels in ever larger concert halls.

> I mean, they have their sound too.

I'd rathe suffer the steelier sound
of a Stoneway or a Shigeru Kawai
than the sound of an out of pitch
woodsichord. Or a 432 or 418 Hz
pitch.

dk

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

<t4egcv$tt3$2@hope.eyrie.org>

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From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:46:23 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
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 by: Todd M. McComb - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:46 UTC

In article <0bc30d2f-5533-459b-8545-afb9a02d762fn@googlegroups.com>,
Dan Koren <dan.koren@gmail.com> wrote:
>The variety of tone, timbre, texture and articulation possible on
>modern pianos is in a completely different league than on woodsichords.

I'm not that fond of equal temperament, so if we're really going
to talk about the modern instruments, to me they sound "equally out
of tune" as the saying goes.... Moreover, there's the similarity
of timbre across the gamut that is both a hard won benefit of the
contemporary design & sometimes a negative in its uniformity.

But that's not to say the older instruments have as much ability
to articulate or project or indeed to provide the sort of
note-against-note clarity that some of the fast fingerwork you enjoy
demands. There are good reasons to play modern instruments. (One
might even observe that some music was written for them. Gosh!)
And there are also plenty of reasons to explore various music in
all sorts of ways, at least as far as I'm concerned. The sorts of
attitudes that come through on threads like these certainly do
nothing to dissuade me of that.

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

<t4egf0$tt3$3@hope.eyrie.org>

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From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:47:28 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
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 by: Todd M. McComb - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:47 UTC

In article <3115fe5a-0afa-4a1c-91a0-53e16b124f79n@googlegroups.com>,
Dan Koren <dan.koren@gmail.com> wrote:
>You forgot to mention the steelier tone produced by modern pianos
>results from higher string tension required to produce higher sound
>levels in ever larger concert halls.

I didn't forget. One could, in fact, observe that the growing
prominence of recordings has made quieter instruments more practical.

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:47 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:33:02 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:21:05 AM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> >
> > The big modern pianos sound like
> > steel. That's the big difference...
> > that hard, shimmering steel.
>
> You forgot to mention the steelier
> tone produced by modern pianos
> results from higher string tension
> required to produce higher sound
> levels in ever larger concert halls.

> > I mean, they have their sound too.

> I'd rather suffer the steelier sound
> of a Stoneway or a Shigeru Kawai
> than the sound of an out of pitch
> woodsichord. Or a 432 or 418 Hz
> pitch.

Does this sound like steel too?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxz62Sd9xto

dk

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:51 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:47:32 AM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <3115fe5a-0afa-4a1c...@googlegroups.com>,
> Dan Koren <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You forgot to mention the steelier
> > tone produced by modern pianos
> > results from higher string tension
> > required to produce higher sound
> > levels in ever larger concert halls.
>
> I didn't forget. One could, in fact,
> observe that the growing prominence
> of recordings has made quieter
> instruments more practical.

"Quieter" sounds are produced by
a pianists' craft rather than by the
piano's inherent loudness capability.

Richter, Gilels, Lupu and many others
could produce sounds at the limit of
silence from any concert grand, no
matter how big.

dk

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dagd...@gmail.com (JohnGavin)
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 by: JohnGavin - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:54 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:29:30 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:21:05 AM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > In article <9a8746dd-f2ab-4d96...@googlegroups.com>,
> > JohnGavin <dag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I once heard someone comment
> > > that fortepianos sound like modern
> > > pianos that fell into a lake and were
> > > fished out a week later.
> >
> > It's a funny line. The first time I
> > heard a fortepiano, what I heard
> > was wood, a lot of wood.... The
> > big modern pianos sound like
> > steel. That's the big difference...
> > that hard, shimmering steel. I
> > mean, they have their sound too.
> Stoneways sound like steel. In fact,
> the Soneway sound may be one of
> the reasons for renewed interest in
> woodsy sounding instruments of
> torture.
>
> Listen to a Fazioli, a Bechstein, or
> even a Pleyel with a modern action,
> and forget about the woodsichords.
>
> The variety of tone, timbre, texture
> and articulation possible on modern
> pianos is in a completely different
> league than on woodsichords.
>
> Does anyone think playing like
> this is possible on clumsichords?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw1D2EpdhhY
>
> dk

It’s Argerich after chugging 10 cans of Red Bull and an Espresso!!

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: arribach...@gmail.com (AB)
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 by: AB - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:56 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:47:49 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:33:02 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:21:05 AM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > >
> > > The big modern pianos sound like
> > > steel. That's the big difference...
> > > that hard, shimmering steel.
> >
> > You forgot to mention the steelier
> > tone produced by modern pianos
> > results from higher string tension
> > required to produce higher sound
> > levels in ever larger concert halls.
>
> > > I mean, they have their sound too.
> > I'd rather suffer the steelier sound
> > of a Stoneway or a Shigeru Kawai
> > than the sound of an out of pitch
> > woodsichord. Or a 432 or 418 Hz
> > pitch.
> Does this sound like steel too?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxz62Sd9xto
>
> dk

not a great sounding piano ( mediocre treble), not well tuned either

AB

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: arribach...@gmail.com (AB)
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 by: AB - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:59 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:51:58 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:47:32 AM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > In article <3115fe5a-0afa-4a1c...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Dan Koren <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > You forgot to mention the steelier
> > > tone produced by modern pianos
> > > results from higher string tension
> > > required to produce higher sound
> > > levels in ever larger concert halls.
> >
> > I didn't forget. One could, in fact,
> > observe that the growing prominence
> > of recordings has made quieter
> > instruments more practical.
> "Quieter" sounds are produced by
> a pianists' craft rather than by the
> piano's inherent loudness capability.
>
> Richter, Gilels, Lupu and many others
> could produce sounds at the limit of
> silence from any concert grand, no
> matter how big.
>
> dk

the real difficulty is in producing a FULL sound when playing softly.......

AB

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 18:05 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 10:59:44 AM UTC-7, AB wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:51:58 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:47:32 AM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > > In article <3115fe5a-0afa-4a1c...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > Dan Koren <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > You forgot to mention the steelier
> > > > tone produced by modern pianos
> > > > results from higher string tension
> > > > required to produce higher sound
> > > > levels in ever larger concert halls.
> > >
> > > I didn't forget. One could, in fact,
> > > observe that the growing prominence
> > > of recordings has made quieter
> > > instruments more practical.
> > "Quieter" sounds are produced by
> > a pianists' craft rather than by the
> > piano's inherent loudness capability.
> >
> > Richter, Gilels, Lupu and many others
> > could produce sounds at the limit of
> > silence from any concert grand, no
> > matter how big.
>
> the real difficulty is in producing a
> FULL sound when playing softly.......

Everyone knows this, and the folks
I mentioned above were great at
doing this.

dk

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