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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

SubjectAuthor
* A fabulous game changing new D960Mandryka
+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Mandryka
|`* is that a modern piano? pretty bad soundABAB
| `* Re: is that a modern piano? pretty bad soundABAB
|  +- Re: is that a modern piano? pretty bad soundABDan Koren
|  `- Re: is that a modern piano? pretty bad soundABLewis Perin
+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
|`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Graham
| +* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| |`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| | `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |  `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| |   `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |    +* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| |    |+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |    ||`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| |    || `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |    ||  `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| |    |`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |    | `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| |    `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960maxi...@gmail.com
| |     +* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |     |`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960maxi...@gmail.com
| |     | `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |     `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |      `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960maxi...@gmail.com
| |       `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
+- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Ricardo Jimenez
+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
|+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Andy Evans
||`- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
|`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960cheregi
| +- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Andrew Clarke
| +* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960JohnGavin
| |+- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| ||+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |||+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| ||||`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960cheregi
| |||| +- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| |||| +* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Andrew Clarke
| |||| |`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |||| | +* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Graham
| |||| | |`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |||| | | `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Graham
| |||| | |  `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |||| | |   `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Graham
| |||| | |    `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |||| | `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Andrew Clarke
| |||| `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| ||||  `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |||`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960JohnGavin
| ||| `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| ||`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| || +* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| || |`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| || | `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960AB
| || |  `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| || `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| ||  `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960AB
| ||   `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| ||    `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960AB
| ||     `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
| |`- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960cheregi
| `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
|+* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960JohnGavin
||`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
|| `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960JohnGavin
||  `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
|`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
| `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Mandryka
|  `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Todd M. McComb
`* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Andrew Clarke
 +- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Dan Koren
 `* Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Owen
  `- Re: A fabulous game changing new D960Paul Alsing

Pages:1234
Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

<b9db8ab4-18ae-46ea-9bd7-8650c30909b1n@googlegroups.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=39248&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#39248

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 18:07 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 10:54:10 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:29:30 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:21:05 AM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > > In article <9a8746dd-f2ab-4d96...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > JohnGavin <dag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I once heard someone comment
> > > > that fortepianos sound like modern
> > > > pianos that fell into a lake and were
> > > > fished out a week later.
> > >
> > > It's a funny line. The first time I
> > > heard a fortepiano, what I heard
> > > was wood, a lot of wood.... The
> > > big modern pianos sound like
> > > steel. That's the big difference...
> > > that hard, shimmering steel. I
> > > mean, they have their sound too.
> > Stoneways sound like steel. In fact,
> > the Soneway sound may be one of
> > the reasons for renewed interest in
> > woodsy sounding instruments of
> > torture.
> >
> > Listen to a Fazioli, a Bechstein, or
> > even a Pleyel with a modern action,
> > and forget about the woodsichords.
> >
> > The variety of tone, timbre, texture
> > and articulation possible on modern
> > pianos is in a completely different
> > league than on woodsichords.
> >
> > Does anyone think playing like
> > this is possible on clumsichords?
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw1D2EpdhhY
>
> It’s Argerich after chugging 10 cans
> of Red Bull and an Espresso!!

No, it isn't Argerich. It is an
entirely different level, both
technically and musically.

dk

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 18:09 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 10:56:48 AM UTC-7, AB wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:47:49 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Does this sound like steel too?
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxz62Sd9xto
>
> not a great sounding piano ( mediocre treble), not well tuned either
>

Does this one sound better to your ears?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC5rfqB0mJQ

dk

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: arribach...@gmail.com (AB)
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 by: AB - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 22:26 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 2:09:30 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 10:56:48 AM UTC-7, AB wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:47:49 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Does this sound like steel too?
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxz62Sd9xto
> >
> > not a great sounding piano ( mediocre treble), not well tuned either
> >
> Does this one sound better to your ears?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC5rfqB0mJQ
>
> dk

very disappointing. very thin somewhat harsh sound in upper register. German Steinway, much superior

AB

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 22:37 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 3:26:10 PM UTC-7, AB wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 2:09:30 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 10:56:48 AM UTC-7, AB wrote:
> > > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:47:49 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Does this sound like steel too?
> > > >
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxz62Sd9xto
> > >
> > > not a great sounding piano ( mediocre treble), not well tuned either
> > >
> > Does this one sound better to your ears?
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC5rfqB0mJQ
>
> very disappointing. very thin somewhat harsh sound
> in upper register. German Steinway, much superior

Stupid reply. Stoneways vary so much in sound and
timbre that generalization is completely meaningless.

The other thing you ignored or forgot is that the sound
produced by real pianists playing actual instruments
depends a lot on the action. One cannot control sound
production effectively if the action is not well suited to
their performing style and habits. Most Stoneways use
horrible Renner actions -- and did you notice Stoneway
has acquired Renner?

Why do you think Pletnev plays a Shigeru Kawai lately?
It is for its action, not for its sound.

dk

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: elirke...@gmail.com (cheregi)
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 by: cheregi - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 00:40 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:46:27 PM UTC-4, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> ... or indeed to provide the sort of
> note-against-note clarity that some of the fast fingerwork you enjoy
> demands ...

I was under the impression that most newer pianos sacrifice some degree of quick (high?) action for the sake of loudness, and have wider keys, and have that slightly 'muddier' sound, such that faster playing is much more doable on old pianos, and for example that one Beethoven sonata tempo marking that's been famously controversial for being almost impossible to achieve in the 20th century suddenly seems almost natural on a period instrument?

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: elirke...@gmail.com (cheregi)
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 by: cheregi - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 00:43 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 10:52:41 AM UTC-4, JohnGavin wrote:
> I once heard someone comment that fortepianos sound like modern pianos that fell into a lake and were fished out a week later. Every time I hear one, that’s the image that keeps returning.

I completely agree! It's lovely. Are you familiar with 'lo-fi' as a genre rather than as a description of audio quality? Or have you listened to much dub techno? Lots to explore under the umbrella of 'fell into a lake and was fished out a week later'.

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 00:54:58 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
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 by: Todd M. McComb - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 00:54 UTC

In article <1784d6d5-3de9-4c47-b739-c1b4766c4477n@googlegroups.com>,
cheregi <elirkerry@gmail.com> wrote:
>I was under the impression that most newer pianos sacrifice some
>degree of quick (high?) action for the sake of loudness, and have
>wider keys, and have that slightly 'muddier' sound, such that
>faster playing is much more doable on old pianos, and for example
>that one Beethoven sonata tempo marking that's been famously
>controversial for being almost impossible to achieve in the 20th
>century suddenly seems almost natural on a period instrument?

You make a good point, and so my summary was not very well phrased.

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 01:52 UTC

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 10:40:53 AM UTC+10, cheregi wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:46:27 PM UTC-4, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > ... or indeed to provide the sort of
> > note-against-note clarity that some of the fast fingerwork you enjoy
> > demands ...
>
> I was under the impression that most newer pianos sacrifice some degree of quick (high?) action for the sake of loudness, and have wider keys, and have that slightly 'muddier' sound, such that faster playing is much more doable on old pianos, and for example that one Beethoven sonata tempo marking that's been famously controversial for being almost impossible to achieve in the 20th century suddenly seems almost natural on a period instrument?

Somewhere or other on the web I came across a HIP violinist who claimed that using a baroque bow was like driving a Ferrari when compared to its modern equivalent.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 02:05 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:40:53 PM UTC-7, cheregi wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:46:27 PM UTC-4, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > ... or indeed to provide the sort of
> > note-against-note clarity that some of
> > the fast fingerwork you enjoy demands ...
>
> I was under the impression that most
> newer pianos sacrifice some degree of
> quick (high?) action for the sake of loudness,

You are mixing things up and clearly
do not understand the physics of how
pianos work.

The ultimate loudness that can be
delivered is mainly a function of
the string tension and the volume
of the soundbox.

Actions differ a lot. Most piano
makers nowadays use Renner
actions, which are horrible.

Kawai, Yamaha and Bosendorfer
(which is now owned by Yamaha)
make their own actions, which
tend to be lighter and quicker.

Actions can be replaced easily.

> and have wider keys,

?!?

> and have that slightly 'muddier' sound,
> such that faster playing is much more
> doable on old pianos,

This is sheer idiocy. Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw1D2EpdhhY

Anyone who thinks this can be done on
old pianos needs not only new ears but
also a brain transplant.

> and for example that one Beethoven
> sonata tempo marking that's been
> famously controversial for being
> almost impossible to achieve in
> the 20th century suddenly seems
> almost natural on a period instrument?

Here is that famous sonata played on a
modern Yamaha CFX:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3xTaoAyf_A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8usO-0vwhwk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pwwslFLkK0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLUGF9215aY

and again the 4th movement from a
live performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDugZe7JY4g

Please do your homework before
parroting pre-conceived ideas and
received "knowledge".

dk

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 02:07 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 6:52:05 PM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Somewhere or other on the web I came
> across a HIP violinist who claimed that
> using a baroque bow was like driving a
> Ferrari when compared to its modern
> equivalent.
>

Did he ever drive one? How does
a HIP violinist manage to buy or
own a Ferrari?

dk

PS. Bugatti (which is owned and
engineered by Audi) leaves the
Feraris in the dust.

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 02:34 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 7:05:04 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:40:53 PM UTC-7, cheregi wrote:
> >
> > and have that slightly 'muddier' sound,
> > such that faster playing is much more
> > doable on old pianos,
>
> This is sheer idiocy. Watch this:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw1D2EpdhhY

And this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPYhMekVRe4

dk

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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 by: Owen - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 03:14 UTC

On 4/28/22 9:46 AM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 4:32:33 AM UTC+10, Mandryka wrote:
>> Love ❤️ it
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5lbkWoY3Lw
>
> I love it too. Don't worry about Desperate Dan's comments - he has only ever liked five pianos ever made, and three of them got flattened at First Manassas. Or First Bull Run if you prefer.
>

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the concert?"

-Owen

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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 by: Graham - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 03:23 UTC

On 2022-04-28 8:07 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 6:52:05 PM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Somewhere or other on the web I came
>> across a HIP violinist who claimed that
>> using a baroque bow was like driving a
>> Ferrari when compared to its modern
>> equivalent.
>>
>
> Did he ever drive one? How does
> a HIP violinist manage to buy or
> own a Ferrari?
>
> dk
>
> PS. Bugatti (which is owned and
> engineered by Audi) leaves the
> Feraris in the dust.

While it's running!

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 04:12 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 8:23:08 PM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
> On 2022-04-28 8:07 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 6:52:05 PM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Somewhere or other on the web I came
> >> across a HIP violinist who claimed that
> >> using a baroque bow was like driving a
> >> Ferrari when compared to its modern
> >> equivalent.
> >>
> >
> > Did he ever drive one? How does
> > a HIP violinist manage to buy or
> > own a Ferrari?
> >
> > PS. Bugatti (which is owned and
> > engineered by Audi) leaves the
> > Feraris in the dust.
>
> While it's running!

They run far more often then do
Ferraris. German Engineering.
The same kind that went into
the WTC, Die Kunst der Fuge,
the Bludgeoned Keyboard,
Bruckner's symphonies,
and so on. ;-)

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: pnals...@gmail.com (Paul Alsing)
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 by: Paul Alsing - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 04:47 UTC

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 8:14:38 PM UTC-7, Owen wrote:

> "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the concert?"

It was a play :>)

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:20 UTC

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 12:07:12 PM UTC+10, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 6:52:05 PM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Somewhere or other on the web I came
> > across a HIP violinist who claimed that
> > using a baroque bow was like driving a
> > Ferrari when compared to its modern
> > equivalent.
> >
> Did he ever drive one? How does
> a HIP violinist manage to buy or
> own a Ferrari?
>
> dk
>
> PS. Bugatti (which is owned and
> engineered by Audi) leaves the
> Feraris in the dust.

It was a she.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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 by: Graham - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 18:17 UTC

On 2022-04-28 10:12 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 8:23:08 PM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
>> On 2022-04-28 8:07 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 6:52:05 PM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Somewhere or other on the web I came
>>>> across a HIP violinist who claimed that
>>>> using a baroque bow was like driving a
>>>> Ferrari when compared to its modern
>>>> equivalent.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Did he ever drive one? How does
>>> a HIP violinist manage to buy or
>>> own a Ferrari?
>>>
>>> PS. Bugatti (which is owned and
>>> engineered by Audi) leaves the
>>> Feraris in the dust.
>>
>> While it's running!
>
> They run far more often then do
> Ferraris. German Engineering.

Still trying to attain the superior standard of Japanese engineering:-)

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 19:11 UTC

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 11:17:09 AM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
> On 2022-04-28 10:12 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 8:23:08 PM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
> >> On 2022-04-28 8:07 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> >>>
> >>> PS. Bugatti (which is owned and
> >>> engineered by Audi) leaves the
> >>> Feraris in the dust.
> >>
> >> While it's running!
> >
> > They run far more often then do
> > Ferraris. German Engineering.
>
> Still trying to attain the superior
> standard of Japanese engineering:-)

You must be mixing up engineering
and manufacturing. Japanese cars
are not better engineered. They are
better manufactured.

dk

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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 by: Graham - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 19:39 UTC

On 2022-04-29 1:11 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 11:17:09 AM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
>> On 2022-04-28 10:12 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 8:23:08 PM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
>>>> On 2022-04-28 8:07 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> PS. Bugatti (which is owned and
>>>>> engineered by Audi) leaves the
>>>>> Feraris in the dust.
>>>>
>>>> While it's running!
>>>
>>> They run far more often then do
>>> Ferraris. German Engineering.
>>
>> Still trying to attain the superior
>> standard of Japanese engineering:-)
>
> You must be mixing up engineering
> and manufacturing. Japanese cars
> are not better engineered. They are
> better manufactured.
>
> dk
So that's why they're more reliable!

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 19:41 UTC

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 12:39:41 PM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
> On 2022-04-29 1:11 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 11:17:09 AM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
> >> On 2022-04-28 10:12 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 8:23:08 PM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
> >>>> On 2022-04-28 8:07 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> PS. Bugatti (which is owned and
> >>>>> engineered by Audi) leaves the
> >>>>> Feraris in the dust.
> >>>>
> >>>> While it's running!
> >>>
> >>> They run far more often then do
> >>> Ferraris. German Engineering.
> >>
> >> Still trying to attain the superior
> >> standard of Japanese engineering:-)
> >
> > You must be mixing up engineering
> > and manufacturing. Japanese cars
> > are not better engineered. They are
> > better manufactured.
>
> So that's why they're more reliable!

German cars are also very reliable
if they are repaired frequently! ;-)

dk

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: maxis...@gmail.com (maxi...@gmail.com)
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 by: maxi...@gmail.com - Sun, 1 May 2022 01:31 UTC

On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 10:43:00 PM UTC-7, dan....@gmail.com wrote:

> We don't see/hear a great deal of
> expression from the practioners
> of dead instruments. One does
> not hear Richter or Rubinstein
> level genius harpsichordists.
> In fact, one does not even
> hear Brendull or Perahia
> level harpsichordists.

Ridiculous.

Here's Richter in BWV 915
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gqEpdRPT2c

and Hantai in the same:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBKrqhC8APg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jn9n0Q0cAY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMrL3L2osJc

Richter in the chorale opening: let me wander aimlessly through these chords until the police take me home.
Richter in the fugue: I shall make the subject emerge from this swamp of sound!

The harpsichord affords energies simply not accessible at the piano.

Generally speaking, great harpsichordists command the spectrum between crisp articulation and overlegato, which pianists and afficionadi like yourself are barely aware of. Your notion of "touch" is centered on entirely different criteria. Musicality is also displayed in spontaneity of ornamentation - emphasis on "spontaneity" - something pianists and their afficionadi know nothing about.

When I last checked, Pierre Hantai, Skip Sempe, Robert Hill, and Scott Ross could outclass great pianists in overlapping repertoire, though each is inconsistent.

-Max

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 1 May 2022 02:41 UTC

On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 6:31:28 PM UTC-7, maxi...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 10:43:00 PM UTC-7, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > We don't see/hear a great deal of
> > expression from the practioners
> > of dead instruments. One does
> > not hear Richter or Rubinstein
> > level genius harpsichordists.
> > In fact, one does not even
> > hear Brendull or Perahia
> > level harpsichordists.
>
> Ridiculous.

Ditto.

> Here's Richter in BWV 915
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gqEpdRPT2c
>
> and Hantai in the same:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBKrqhC8APg
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jn9n0Q0cAY
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMrL3L2osJc
>
> Richter in the chorale opening: let me wander
> aimlessly through these chords until the police
> take me home. Richter in the fugue: I shall make
> the subject emerge from this swamp of sound!

You picked an unsuccessful reading from Richter's
last years when he was long past his prime (1992).
This has nothing to do with pianos vs. toxichords.

Here is a great BMW 915 on the piano:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgHUaDvBjxM

> The harpsichord affords energies simply not
> accessible at the piano.

Complete bullshit. One gets such an impression
by listening to a closely recorded toxichord in a
in a small reverberation free recording studio. I
can sign you a notarized affidavit that toxichord
could not be heard farther away than 6 feet in a
large concert hall.

> Generally speaking, great harpsichordists

There are no "great" harpsichordists.

> command the spectrum between crisp
> articulation and overlegato, which pianists
> and afficionadi like yourself are barely aware
> of.

Really?

> Your notion of "touch" is centered on entirely
> different criteria. Musicality is also displayed
> in spontaneity of ornamentation - emphasis
> on "spontaneity" - something pianists and
> their afficionadi know nothing about.

My notion of touch is centered on 21st century
piano performance, not on 18th century firewood.

> When I last checked, Pierre Hantai, Skip Sempe,
> Robert Hill, and Scott Ross could outclass great
> pianists in overlapping repertoire, though each is
> inconsistent.

There is no "overlapping repertoire". One cannot
play Rachmaninov, Scriabin, Debussy or Albeniz
on firewood.

Case closed.

dk

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 1 May 2022 03:33 UTC

On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 6:31:28 PM UTC-7, maxi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> When I last checked, Pierre Hantai,
> Skip Sempe, Robert Hill, and Scott
> Ross could outclass great pianists
> in overlapping repertoire, though
> each is inconsistent.

You forgot to take into account the
fact some people dislike, or even
hate the sound of the toxichords.
It really doesn't matter to my ears
how "good" are its practitioners.
People who like to chop firewood
should work in the lumber industry.

dk

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: maxis...@gmail.com (maxi...@gmail.com)
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 by: maxi...@gmail.com - Sun, 1 May 2022 15:29 UTC

On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 7:41:09 PM UTC-7, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 6:31:28 PM UTC-7, maxi...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 10:43:00 PM UTC-7, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > We don't see/hear a great deal of
> > > expression from the practioners
> > > of dead instruments. One does
> > > not hear Richter or Rubinstein
> > > level genius harpsichordists.
> > > In fact, one does not even
> > > hear Brendull or Perahia
> > > level harpsichordists.
> >
> > Ridiculous.
> Ditto.
> > Here's Richter in BWV 915
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gqEpdRPT2c
> >
> > and Hantai in the same:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBKrqhC8APg
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jn9n0Q0cAY
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMrL3L2osJc
> >
> > Richter in the chorale opening: let me wander
> > aimlessly through these chords until the police
> > take me home. Richter in the fugue: I shall make
> > the subject emerge from this swamp of sound!
> You picked an unsuccessful reading from Richter's
> last years when he was long past his prime (1992).
> This has nothing to do with pianos vs. toxichords.
>
> Here is a great BMW 915 on the piano:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgHUaDvBjxM

The best I've heard on piano, thanks for making my point.

> > The harpsichord affords energies simply not
> > accessible at the piano.
> Complete bullshit. One gets such an impression
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> by listening to a closely recorded toxichord in a
> in a small reverberation free recording studio. I
> can sign you a notarized affidavit that toxichord
> could not be heard farther away than 6 feet in a
> large concert hall.

"I'm not gay because I'm a top."

Welcome to the club, Dan!
The sooner you stop blaming recording engineers for making you this way, the better. The amplification allowed you to hear harpsichord nuance for the first time. It didn't "add" anything that wasn't there already.

> > Generally speaking, great harpsichordists
>
> There are no "great" harpsichordists.
> > command the spectrum between crisp
> > articulation and overlegato, which pianists
> > and afficionadi like yourself are barely aware
> > of.
> Really?
> > Your notion of "touch" is centered on entirely
> > different criteria. Musicality is also displayed
> > in spontaneity of ornamentation - emphasis
> > on "spontaneity" - something pianists and
> > their afficionadi know nothing about.
> My notion of touch is centered on 21st century
> piano performance, not on 18th century firewood.
> > When I last checked, Pierre Hantai, Skip Sempe,
> > Robert Hill, and Scott Ross could outclass great
> > pianists in overlapping repertoire, though each is
> > inconsistent.
> There is no "overlapping repertoire". One cannot
> play Rachmaninov, Scriabin, Debussy or Albeniz
> on firewood.
>

You're short-circuiting, buddy.

> Case closed.
>
> dk

Re: A fabulous game changing new D960

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Subject: Re: A fabulous game changing new D960
From: maxis...@gmail.com (maxi...@gmail.com)
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 by: maxi...@gmail.com - Sun, 1 May 2022 15:35 UTC

On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 8:33:47 PM UTC-7, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 6:31:28 PM UTC-7, maxi...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > When I last checked, Pierre Hantai,
> > Skip Sempe, Robert Hill, and Scott
> > Ross could outclass great pianists
> > in overlapping repertoire, though
> > each is inconsistent.
> You forgot to take into account the
> fact some people dislike, or even
> hate the sound of the toxichords.

"I'm qualified to judge harpsichordists. By the way, I hate the sound of the harpsichord."

> It really doesn't matter to my ears
> how "good" are its practitioners.

More inadvertent admissions.

> People who like to chop firewood
> should work in the lumber industry.
>
> dk

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