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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

SubjectAuthor
* La Wang trying to play serous musicDan Koren
+* Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicDan Koren
|`* Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicJohnGavin
| +* Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicMELMOTH
| |`- Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicJohnGavin
| +- Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicRicardo Jimenez
| +- Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicChris J.
| `* Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicAB
|  +* Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicDan Koren
|  |+* Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicHT
|  ||`* Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicTodd M. McComb
|  || `- Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicHT
|  |`* Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicJohnGavin
|  | `- Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicraymond....@gmail.com
|  `* Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicOwen
|   `* Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicDan Koren
|    `* Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicHT
|     `- Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicDan Koren
`* Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicNéstor Castiglione
 `- Re: La Wang trying to play serous musicDan Koren

1
La Wang trying to play serous music

<b4306ee4-c6e7-46a3-b648-14ce4c5aa08cn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 1 May 2022 08:07 UTC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7CqibJRpFE&ab_channel=EusebiusetFlorestan

Horrible!

dk

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 1 May 2022 08:20 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 1:07:21 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7CqibJRpFE&ab_channel=EusebiusetFlorestan
>
> Horrible!
>

Even worse!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtH3cghvwis&ab_channel=EusebiusetFlorestan

dk

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: dagd...@gmail.com (JohnGavin)
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 by: JohnGavin - Sun, 1 May 2022 11:42 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 4:20:11 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 1:07:21 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7CqibJRpFE&ab_channel=EusebiusetFlorestan
> >
> > Horrible!
> >
>
> Even worse!
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtH3cghvwis&ab_channel=EusebiusetFlorestan
>
> dk

It’s not awful at all. At this point I suggest people ignore your endless negative tirades.
A few years ago you directed your condescension toward Beethoven in a series of ridiculous posts. Then Ms. Lim came along with her fast fingers and you liked him again. What a waste of time. Why not adopt a more positive outlook?

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

<626e83b2$0$2980$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: theom...@free.fr (MELMOTH)
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 by: MELMOTH - Sun, 1 May 2022 12:57 UTC

JohnGavin a pensé très fort :
> It’s not awful at all. At this point I suggest people ignore your endless
> negative tirades.
> A few years ago you directed your condescension toward Beethoven in a series
> of ridiculous posts. Then Ms. Lim came along with her fast fingers and you
> liked him again. What a waste of time. Why not adopt a more positive
> outlook?

You have to take Koko as it is...
And after all, he never said that he liked Music, eh...
The piano, at most... And even...I'm not really sure...
We understood a long time ago that his tastes are extremely limited...
Should we forgive him ? Yes, of course... And pity him, above all... We
must love him, with all our soul... He needs the love of all of us,
here... His life depends on it...
And then...Can someone who drives an Audi be otherwise?...I ask the
question...

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

<82f6ebdf-5840-415a-be89-7c0a74f19ca3n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: dagd...@gmail.com (JohnGavin)
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 by: JohnGavin - Sun, 1 May 2022 13:37 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 8:57:26 AM UTC-4, MELMOTH wrote:
> JohnGavin a pensé très fort :
> > It’s not awful at all. At this point I suggest people ignore your endless
> > negative tirades.
> > A few years ago you directed your condescension toward Beethoven in a series
> > of ridiculous posts. Then Ms. Lim came along with her fast fingers and you
> > liked him again. What a waste of time. Why not adopt a more positive
> > outlook?
> You have to take Koko as it is...
> And after all, he never said that he liked Music, eh...
> The piano, at most... And even...I'm not really sure...
> We understood a long time ago that his tastes are extremely limited...
> Should we forgive him ? Yes, of course... And pity him, above all... We
> must love him, with all our soul... He needs the love of all of us,
> here... His life depends on it...
> And then...Can someone who drives an Audi be otherwise?...I ask the
> question...

Thanks Melmoth. I agree with everything you have written.

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
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 by: Ricardo Jimenez - Sun, 1 May 2022 14:49 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 04:42:42 -0700 (PDT), JohnGavin <dagdern@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 4:20:11 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 1:07:21 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7CqibJRpFE&ab_channel=EusebiusetFlorestan
>> >
>> > Horrible!
>> >
>>
>> Even worse!
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtH3cghvwis&ab_channel=EusebiusetFlorestan
>>
>> dk
>
>It’s not awful at all. At this point I suggest people ignore your endless negative tirades.
>A few years ago you directed your condescension toward Beethoven in a series of ridiculous posts. Then Ms. Lim came along with her fast fingers and you liked him again. What a waste of time. Why not adopt a more positive outlook?

I have ignored Dan's negative reviews for as long as I can remember.
But I have always been happy with his positive recommendations, except
for the bad sound on many of HJ Lim's youtube videos.

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

<iWybK.1987541$2c1.1587295@fx04.ams4>

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 by: Chris J. - Sun, 1 May 2022 16:53 UTC

On 01 May 2022 JohnGavin wrote:

>> > Horrible!
>> >
>> >
>> Even worse!
>>
>> dk

> It’s not awful at all. At this point I suggest people ignore your
> endless negative tirades.

I have discovered that Dan Koren is on YouTube's payroll. His postings
are mere clickbait, earning him bonus points if someone clicks on a YT
URL. Add youtube.com to your operating system's hosts file(1) and you are
safe.;-)

(1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosts_file

Chris

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: arribach...@gmail.com (AB)
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 by: AB - Sun, 1 May 2022 17:34 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 7:42:45 AM UTC-4, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 4:20:11 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 1:07:21 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7CqibJRpFE&ab_channel=EusebiusetFlorestan
> > >
> > > Horrible!
> > >
> >
> > Even worse!
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtH3cghvwis&ab_channel=EusebiusetFlorestan
> >
> > dk
> It’s not awful at all. At this point I suggest people ignore your endless negative tirades.
> A few years ago you directed your condescension toward Beethoven in a series of ridiculous posts. Then Ms. Lim came along with her fast fingers and you liked him again. What a waste of time. Why not adopt a more positive outlook?

yes, it is terrible, thought you had a better ear...playing makes no sense at all and what a horrible piano how come you did not notice that???

AB

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

<f867b90d-e5d2-44e2-9a5e-9bb8e11fe7c8n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 1 May 2022 19:10 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 10:34:12 AM UTC-7, AB wrote:
>
> yes, it is terrible, thought you had a better ear...
> playing makes no sense at all and what a
> horrible piano how come you did not
> notice that???
>

The problem is not his ears. It is the stuff
between them. It has become abundantly
clear there are a bunch of people in this
ng who believe music performance is
about "ideas" rather than about sound,
color, texture, touch, expression, or any
other aspect of PERFORMING ARTS.

This is the end point of the process
of intellectualizing music, an all too
familiar form of mass psychosis.

dk

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

<e86871b0-83f4-4376-ab73-71a0376fc235n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: hvtu...@xs4all.nl (HT)
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 by: HT - Sun, 1 May 2022 20:05 UTC

> It has become abundantly
> clear there are a bunch of people in this
> ng who believe music performance is
> about "ideas" rather than about sound,
> color, texture, touch, expression, or any
> other aspect of PERFORMING ARTS.

If there is no idea behind music, what's the difference with random noise?

Henk

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

<t4mpce$ajc$1@hope.eyrie.org>

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From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 20:08:46 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Todd M. McComb - Sun, 1 May 2022 20:08 UTC

In article <e86871b0-83f4-4376-ab73-71a0376fc235n@googlegroups.com>,
HT <hvtuijl@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>If there is no idea behind music, what's the difference with random
>noise?

Perhaps more to the point, how does one discuss music without ideas
-- such as sound, texture, touch, expression, etc.?

I mean, one obviously does not NEED to discuss music, so there's
that....

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

<949b109d-b77b-428f-99a3-66f747f97a9bn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: dagd...@gmail.com (JohnGavin)
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 by: JohnGavin - Sun, 1 May 2022 20:52 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 3:10:45 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 10:34:12 AM UTC-7, AB wrote:
> >
> > yes, it is terrible, thought you had a better ear...
> > playing makes no sense at all and what a
> > horrible piano how come you did not
> > notice that???
> >
> The problem is not his ears. It is the stuff
> between them. It has become abundantly
> clear there are a bunch of people in this
> ng who believe music performance is
> about "ideas" rather than about sound,
> color, texture, touch, expression, or any
> other aspect of PERFORMING ARTS.
>
> This is the end point of the process
> of intellectualizing music, an all too
> familiar form of mass psychosis.
>
> dk

Your diagnosis misses the truth completely, and has nothing to do with intellectualizing.
This thread is set up purely as a hit piece. You’re really saying ‘look how badly she stinks at playing the piano” with no constructive criticism. It’s as if you get you jollies out of low rating performers like her, just for the sake of doing it. It’s mean-spirited.

The Albeniz was obviously recorded from the audience from a cell phone - of course it doesn’t sound wonderful. Yuja Wang obviously didn’t approve it. That should be a given. At least you have one ally in AB who is proud of being able to distinguish the sound from a DG recording.

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: raymond....@gmail.com (raymond....@gmail.com)
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 by: raymond....@gmail.co - Mon, 2 May 2022 01:48 UTC

On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 06:52:33 UTC+10, JohnGavin wrote:

> Your diagnosis misses the truth completely, and has nothing to do with intellectualizing.
> This thread is set up purely as a hit piece. You’re really saying ‘look how badly she stinks at playing the piano” with no constructive criticism. It’s as if you get you jollies out of low rating performers like her, just for the sake of doing it. It’s mean-spirited.

But she looks pretty and isn't that the whole point?

> The Albeniz was obviously recorded from the audience from a cell phone - of course it doesn’t sound wonderful. Yuja Wang obviously didn’t approve it. That should be a given. At least you have one ally in AB who is proud of being able to distinguish the sound from a DG recording.

Not all DG recordings are bad. Last night I gave the first part of Karl Richter's and his Muenchner's Weinacht Oratorio a spin, and for its age it sounds absolutely wonderful on my Archiv cd. Real music, not scented and weakly perfumed whiffery of music dud(e)s, who write thousands more notes than are needed. Music for the heavens.

Ray Hall, Taree

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: castigli...@gmail.com (Néstor Castiglione)
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 by: Néstor Castiglione - Mon, 2 May 2022 02:17 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 1:07:21 AM UTC-7, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7CqibJRpFE&ab_channel=EusebiusetFlorestan
>
> Horrible!
>
> dk

I agree with you 100%. Gotta say, I apologize for having been a jerk to you in the past, Dan. Perhaps with time I'll begin to approach your state of perfection. ;) But I do enjoy your directness very much, even when we disagree!

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

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 by: Owen - Mon, 2 May 2022 03:05 UTC

On 5/1/22 1:34 PM, AB wrote:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 7:42:45 AM UTC-4, JohnGavin wrote:
>> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 4:20:11 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 1:07:21 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7CqibJRpFE&ab_channel=EusebiusetFlorestan
>>>>
>>>> Horrible!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Even worse!
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtH3cghvwis&ab_channel=EusebiusetFlorestan
>>>
>>> dk
>> It’s not awful at all. At this point I suggest people ignore your endless negative tirades.
>> A few years ago you directed your condescension toward Beethoven in a series of ridiculous posts. Then Ms. Lim came along with her fast fingers and you liked him again. What a waste of time. Why not adopt a more positive outlook?
>
> yes, it is terrible, thought you had a better ear...playing makes no sense at all and what a horrible piano how come you did not notice that???
>
According to the comment on Lavapies, it was captured by a mobile phone!

Of course the sound is horrible.

-Owen

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:40 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 8:05:19 PM UTC-7, Owen wrote:
>
> According to the comment on Lavapies,
> it was captured by a mobile phone!
> Of course the sound is horrible.
>

My comment was not about
sound quality. It was about
the (non-)interpretation. It
can be clearly heard through
the muddy sound. She plays
them like fast finger studies:
no phrasing, no articulation,
no interpretation, no rhythm,
just fast notes. She simply
does not understand the
music. She simply does
not get Albeniz.

Listen to the following to
understand what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbnpo_IbxMk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3J6yj9n8gs

dk

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: hvtu...@xs4all.nl (HT)
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 by: HT - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:42 UTC

Op zondag 1 mei 2022 om 22:08:50 UTC+2 schreef Todd M. McComb:
> In article <e86871b0-83f4-4376...@googlegroups.com>,
> HT <hvt...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >If there is no idea behind music, what's the difference with random
> >noise?
> Perhaps more to the point, how does one discuss music without ideas
> -- such as sound, texture, touch, expression, etc.?
>
> I mean, one obviously does not NEED to discuss music, so there's
> that....

<g> Having no idea what you are hearing can be unsettling. One may feel the need to discuss it.

Henk

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:53 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 7:17:10 PM UTC-7, Néstor Castiglione wrote:
>
> Gotta say, I apologize for having
> been a jerk to you in the past, Dan.

?!? Never detected any jerkiness.
You are one of the few rational
people in this ng.

dk

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: hvtu...@xs4all.nl (HT)
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 by: HT - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:56 UTC

Op maandag 2 mei 2022 om 10:40:50 UTC+2 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 8:05:19 PM UTC-7, Owen wrote:
> >
> > According to the comment on Lavapies,
> > it was captured by a mobile phone!
> > Of course the sound is horrible.
> >
> My comment was not about
> sound quality. It was about
> the (non-)interpretation. It
> can be clearly heard through
> the muddy sound. She plays
> them like fast finger studies:
> no phrasing, no articulation,
> no interpretation, no rhythm,
> just fast notes. She simply
> does not understand the
> music. She simply does
> not get Albeniz.
>
> Listen to the following to
> understand what I mean.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbnpo_IbxMk
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3J6yj9n8gs
>
> dk

Few performers play Iberia well. Wang isn't one of them, at the moment. Perhaps it was just a try-out.

Henk

Re: La Wang trying to play serous music

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Subject: Re: La Wang trying to play serous music
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Mon, 2 May 2022 09:08 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:56:45 AM UTC-7, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Op maandag 2 mei 2022 om 10:40:50 UTC+2 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
> > On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 8:05:19 PM UTC-7, Owen wrote:
> > >
> > > According to the comment on Lavapies,
> > > it was captured by a mobile phone!
> > > Of course the sound is horrible.
> > >
> > My comment was not about
> > sound quality. It was about
> > the (non-)interpretation. It
> > can be clearly heard through
> > the muddy sound. She plays
> > them like fast finger studies:
> > no phrasing, no articulation,
> > no interpretation, no rhythm,
> > just fast notes. She simply
> > does not understand the
> > music. She simply does
> > not get Albeniz.
> >
> > Listen to the following to
> > understand what I mean.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbnpo_IbxMk
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3J6yj9n8gs
>
> Few performers play Iberia well.
> Wang isn't one of them, at the
> moment. Perhaps it was just
> a try-out.
>

That was certainly the case 40
years ago, however things have
improved greatly. The problem
is that Spanish pianists do not
enjoy much visibility in a music
market that is dominated by high
heels and high fashion.

Rafael Orozco, Gustavo Diaz-Jerez,
Jose Maria Pinzolas, Miguel Baselga,
Vanessa Perez, Pedro Carbone, Luis
Fernando Peres, Kotaro Fukuma have
raised the bar hugely over the past 30
years.

LIsten to Rafael Orozco play El Albaicin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quVvU5KMLWk

Pure catnip!

dk

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