https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv0o8dejbAM

Impressively, he was twenty or thirty years ahead ...

On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 5:46:46 PM UTC, cdc wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv0o8dejbAM
>
> Impressively, he was twenty or thirty years ahead ...

This is Suite 6 -- improvised by Scelsi and then notated, possibly by an assistant.

Always good to have something new by James Clapperton.

Op donderdag 6 januari 2022 om 19:24:34 UTC+1 schreef Mandryka:
> On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 5:46:46 PM UTC, cdc wrote:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv0o8dejbAM
> >
> > Impressively, he was twenty or thirty years ahead ...
> This is Suite 6 -- improvised by Scelsi and then notated, possibly by an assistant.
>
> Always good to have something new by James Clapperton.

What makes this improvisation 20 or 30 years ahead of its time?

Henk

Il Thu, 06 Jan 2022 10:24:31 -0800, Mandryka ha scritto:

> This is Suite 6 -- improvised by Scelsi and then notated, possibly by an
> assistant.

What you say (the practice of improvising, recording and then having
others do the transcriptions) is known. But in 1938-39 with what
commercially available device could one record one's improvisations on the
piano?

On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 6:44:41 PM UTC, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Op donderdag 6 januari 2022 om 19:24:34 UTC+1 schreef Mandryka:
> > On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 5:46:46 PM UTC, cdc wrote:
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv0o8dejbAM
> > >
> > > Impressively, he was twenty or thirty years ahead ...
> > This is Suite 6 -- improvised by Scelsi and then notated, possibly by an assistant.
> >
> > Always good to have something new by James Clapperton.
> What makes this improvisation 20 or 30 years ahead of its time?
>
> Henk

Just thinking of the start, obvious things which make it stand out for me is the unpredictability of the rhythm and the articulation, and the the way the repeated D is coloured by adjacent notes. I don't know the period well enough to say whether it resembles other pieces of the time. The physicality of the music makes me think of Ustvolskaya and Bartok, and the chromaticism reminds me of later Scriabin -- though I hardly know any of these composers very well!

As far as impact on later music, is it fanciful to see in that repeated D in the first part the genesis of all the one note music which so marked the second half of the twentieth century. Had Stockhausen heard this suite before writing Inori, for example? Or Berio before writing his piano sonata?

In article <sr7hkg$1d9i$1@gioia.aioe.org>, cdc <cdc@somewhere.org> wrote:
>What you say (the practice of improvising, recording and then
>having others do the transcriptions) is known. But in 1938-39 with
>what commercially available device could one record one's
>improvisations on the piano?

Scelsi was still composing in the traditional manner at that time.

It's worth noting that his future ondiola improvisations were all
transcribed for other forces. There is no notated ondiola music
(except maybe _In nomine lucis_ I suppose).

Il Thu, 06 Jan 2022 20:58:29 +0000, Todd M. McComb ha scritto:

> It's worth noting that his future ondiola improvisations were all
> transcribed for other forces.

I found this (an ondioline improvisation by Scelsi):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0pq1GvBBsA

There is no written information on this document, not even where it was
taken from, but perhaps there is a musicologist here who can make a
critical judgment.

In article <t644te$pho$1@gioia.aioe.org>, cdc <cdc@somewhere.org> wrote:
>I found this (an ondioline improvisation by Scelsi):
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0pq1GvBBsA
>There is no written information on this document, not even where it was
>taken from, but perhaps there is a musicologist here who can make a
>critical judgment.

Without having a listen to the Youtube link, there is an entire
tape archive of Scelsi's ondiola improvisations, controlled by the
Isabella Scelsi Trust. The double album _Scelsi Revisited_, recently
on Kairos, turned to material from this archive that had not been
scored, and had it scored by other composers (according to the
orchestration of _Anahit_). There may be future plans, but I'm not
specifically aware.

Il Thu, 19 May 2022 01:06:30 +0000, Todd M. McComb ha scritto:

> Without having a listen to the Youtube link, there is an entire tape
> archive of Scelsi's ondiola improvisations, controlled by the Isabella
> Scelsi Trust.

So what? I know well that there is this tape archive, but it is not
mentioned...You can only assume it comes from there... Do you know that
material from the tape archive has been published?
I had never found a whole ondiola improvisation by Scelsi before.
I've always wanted to be able to compare the raw material on tape
(digitized) with the final scores.

Bye,
c