For some reason many seem to think that if you like Mahler you must like Bruckner. T'aint so, Magee!! I do like the Fourth but for all of the others (and Lord knows I have tried with quite a few different conductors) I am reminded of a story I once read. You are walking down the street and meet an old fat Austrian friend. You greet each other and he tells you he has the most fascinating story to tell you. He goes on for an hour telling you how great the story is and you part ways when you realize he never told you the story!!!And that's how I feel about Bruckner - a bunch of disconnected ideas with no cohesive connection. Maybe one day it will hit me - happened before with other works but for now I just don't relate

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 5:22:42 PM UTC-7, randy wolfgang wrote:
> For some reason many seem to think that if you like Mahler you must like Bruckner. T'aint so, Magee!! I do like the Fourth but for all of the others (and Lord knows I have tried with quite a few different conductors) I am reminded of a story I once read. You are walking down the street and meet an old fat Austrian friend. You greet each other and he tells you he has the most fascinating story to tell you. He goes on for an hour telling you how great the story is and you part ways when you realize he never told you the story!!!And that's how I feel about Bruckner - a bunch of disconnected ideas with no cohesive connection. Maybe one day it will hit me - happened before with other works but for now I just don't relate

https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/hCHx9mXY_Uo/m/f6f8FkoLBAAJ

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 5:22:42 PM UTC-7, randy wolfgang wrote:
> For some reason many seem to think that if you like Mahler you must like Bruckner. T'aint so, Magee!! I do like the Fourth but for all of the others (and Lord knows I have tried with quite a few different conductors) I am reminded of a story I once read. You are walking down the street and meet an old fat Austrian friend. You greet each other and he tells you he has the most fascinating story to tell you. He goes on for an hour telling you how great the story is and you part ways when you realize he never told you the story!!!And that's how I feel about Bruckner - a bunch of disconnected ideas with no cohesive connection. Maybe one day it will hit me - happened before with other works but for now I just don't relate

https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/EJkv-P4QM50/m/9PqWz_bHWUgJ

On 7/12/22 5:22 PM, randy wolfgang wrote:
> For some reason many seem to think that if you like Mahler you must like Bruckner. T'aint so, Magee!! I do like the Fourth but for all of the others (and Lord knows I have tried with quite a few different conductors) I am reminded of a story I once read. You are walking down the street and meet an old fat Austrian friend. You greet each other and he tells you he has the most fascinating story to tell you. He goes on for an hour telling you how great the story is and you part ways when you realize he never told you the story!!!And that's how I feel about Bruckner - a bunch of disconnected ideas with no cohesive connection. Maybe one day it will hit me - happened before with other works but for now I just don't relate

My first acquaintance with Bruckner was, oddly enough, the 6th on a
Turnabout LP, Hubert Reichert conducting the Westphalian Symphony
Orchestra. And to tell you the truth, my first (and second, and third)
impression was related to yours. I just didn't see the point.

But then later, somehow, it clicked. The structure became clearer and I
could see what he was doing, not perfectly, of course, but well enough
to keep bringing me back. No doubt hearing better performances and other
symphonies helped, but I think one must be in the right frame of mind in
order to 'get' his music. I'm glad I did.

Bob Harper

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 10:22:04 PM UTC-7, Bob Harper wrote:
>
> My first acquaintance with Bruckner was, oddly enough, the 6th on a
> Turnabout LP, Hubert Reichert conducting the Westphalian Symphony
> Orchestra. And to tell you the truth, my first (and second, and third)
> impression was related to yours. I just didn't see the point.
>

I first heard Bruckner's 4th
when I was 4, and loved it!

dk

Self-mythologizing apart, you don't have to like or love Bruckner.
The nr of Bruckner, I don't get it vastly outnumbers the I love it topics.
Nr. 7 is a good start. But again, you don't have to.

On Wednesday, 13 July 2022 at 15:43:49 UTC+10, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 10:22:04 PM UTC-7, Bob Harper wrote:
> >
> > My first acquaintance with Bruckner was, oddly enough, the 6th on a
> > Turnabout LP, Hubert Reichert conducting the Westphalian Symphony
> > Orchestra. And to tell you the truth, my first (and second, and third)
> > impression was related to yours. I just didn't see the point.
> >
> I first heard Bruckner's 4th
> when I was 4, and loved it!
>
> dk

I first heard Goodall's Bruckner 8th on radio, and was wowed by the adagio. Since then I have always had a great love for Bruckner's symphonies, especially the 4th. I love the 5th a lot too.

However Anton is not my favourite composer, and I have to be in the right mood. Wand was a great conductor of Bruckner, also Tintner, and fwiw I regret not getting Barenboim's cycle with Chicago, now oop unfortunately. I sense this might have been among DB's finest recordings. Even Celi recorded a great 4th with his Munchkin forces. I don't seek a meaning in most symphonies, enjoying the journey, but some have a more emphatic sense of completeness than others.

Ray Hall, Taree

On 12 Jul 2022 Dan Koren wrote:

> I first heard Bruckner's 4th when I was 4, and loved it!

That's quite old actually. I first heard Bruckner's 7th when I was still
in the womb and have been traumatized ever since. Until I discovered real
music by real composers such as Bach, Rameau, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven,
Schubert, Fauré, Debussy, to name but a few.

Chris

That was just your mom humming.
A lot of Bruckner could be described as trying to emulate that feeling.
I'm just kidding.
Don't listen to Bruckner every day. Go to a good live performance and cherish the memory, rather than listening to a canned studio performance.

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 1:05:45 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
>
> Don't listen to Bruckner every day.

Impossible, every symphony
takes several days to digest.

dk

On 13 Jul 2022 Dan Koren wrote:

>> Don't listen to Bruckner every day.

> Impossible, every symphony takes several days to digest.

Perhaps Bruckner's symphonies were meant for ruminants.

Chris

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 1:43:49 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 10:22:04 PM UTC-7, Bob Harper wrote:
> >
> > My first acquaintance with Bruckner was, oddly enough, the 6th on a
> > Turnabout LP, Hubert Reichert conducting the Westphalian Symphony
> > Orchestra. And to tell you the truth, my first (and second, and third)
> > impression was related to yours. I just didn't see the point.
> >
> I first heard Bruckner's 4th
> when I was 4, and loved it!
>
> dk
Currently listening to the Honeck Fourth via streaming and enjoying it but I never really had a problem with the 4th. I'll move on to the 7th next Thanks Randy

I've always been astounded by the sheer audacity of the incomplete Ninth, and especially in Furtwangler's revelatory wartime concert that revels in its tangible pain - and, indeed, strikes me as so moving for the very reason ("disconnected ideas") cited by Randy. FWIW, I had outlined my enthusiasm at: http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics/brucknerninth.html ; and elsewhere I had reacted in more detail to the Furtwangler concert (at the risk of pushing the resident cynics of this group into a feeding frenzy):

The composition of the Symphony # 9 consumed the last agonized decade of Bruckner's life. He was a peasant who craved acceptance but was crushed by the snubs of society and the critical establishment. His music was strikingly original, but the cultural gatekeepers of the time insisted on editing and reorchestrating it to conform to their own artistic norms. He was obsessed with morbidity, and was increasingly terrified by his own imminent end. He was deeply religious and dedicated his final work to God, but could not comprehend how God could refuse him the strength and inspiration to finish it..

The symphony is incomplete in far more than the immediate sense of lacking a final movement; Bruckner clearly struggled for something new and far-reaching but ultimately died unable to realize it. The first movement, in particular, seems fragmentary and rough. Every other conductor tries to smooth the score into a cohesive whole. Furtwängler's approach, though, is far, far different.

Furtwängler once said that "an interpreter can render only what he has first lived through." Of all the conductors who have grappled with the complex challenges of the Bruckner Ninth, Furtwängler was best positioned to understand what Bruckner had achieved. Bruno Walter had hinted at this when he observed that he never understood Bruckner until he became mortally ill. The Ninth is not a failed attempt at a cohesive artistic statement. Rather, it is a complete and perfect musical depiction of a tortured mind: a desperate snatch at a vision that grew ever more elusive, a vain quest for understanding and fulfillment in a world that would not provide it, a fevered groping for fragments of life in the lengthening shadow of death. As he wrestled with his Ninth Symphony, Bruckner stood at the very edge of that abyss. By late 1944, Furtwängler stood there too.

The first climax of the first movement heralds his emotion. The Berlin Philharmonic is fully controlled and its ensemble perfectly together, and yet the tempo is so unstable and dynamically alive that no note falls quite where its predecessors would suggest, as if to reflect the entire orchestra's heaving, nervous desperation. Furtwängler often spent entire rehearsals polishing crucial transitions, but not here; he chops the first movement into dozens of inconclusive fragments, deliberately wrenching the mood from lilting lyricism to raw savagery, the tempos from standstill to runaway, and dynamics from inaudible to heavily overloaded. The movement ends in screaming trumpets, a primordial burst of sheer abject terror as both Bruckner and Furtwängler confronted the most horrifying fear of all: that at the very end of their struggles there would be only a void.

Although nothing could eclipse the unparalleled power of the opening, the wonders of this radical reworking of the Bruckner Ninth do not end with the shattering climax of the first movement. Furtwängler whips the scherzo and trio from a slightly menacing waltz and bucolic pastorale into a furiously driven, vertiginous ride to damnation. He then gradually builds the unintended adagio finale to a terrifying dissonance, after which the exhausted fragments wither into eternal silence.

None of this is explicit in the score. It took Furtwängler to recognize and recreate an absolutely perfect depiction of a single mind and, by extension, an entire world on the brink of collapse.

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 8:22:42 PM UTC-4, randy wolfgang wrote:
> For some reason many seem to think that if you like Mahler you must like Bruckner. T'aint so, Magee!! I do like the Fourth but for all of the others (and Lord knows I have tried with quite a few different conductors) I am reminded of a story I once read. You are walking down the street and meet an old fat Austrian friend. You greet each other and he tells you he has the most fascinating story to tell you. He goes on for an hour telling you how great the story is and you part ways when you realize he never told you the story!!!And that's how I feel about Bruckner - a bunch of disconnected ideas with no cohesive connection. Maybe one day it will hit me - happened before with other works but for now I just don't relate

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 3:10:06 PM UTC+2, peter gutmann wrote:

> He was a peasant who craved acceptance but was crushed by the snubs of society and the critical establishment.

This needs some sad Hollywood violins and some free kleenex.

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 1:21:27 PM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 3:10:06 PM UTC+2, peter gutmann wrote:
>
> > He was a peasant who craved acceptance but was crushed by the snubs of society and the critical establishment.
> This needs some sad Hollywood violins and some free kleenex.
And a score by Max Steiner and heavenly choir???? LOL randy

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 1:55:27 PM UTC-4, randy wolfgang wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 1:21:27 PM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 3:10:06 PM UTC+2, peter gutmann wrote:
> >
> > > He was a peasant who craved acceptance but was crushed by the snubs of society and the critical establishment.
> > This needs some sad Hollywood violins and some free kleenex.
> And a score by Max Steiner and heavenly choir???? LOL randy
Just listened to the Honeck Bruckner 4 via lossless and it was wonderful - as I said I find the 4th the most coherent to me. This was very exciting and beautifully recorded. Any of the Brucknerians (Brucknerites??) recommend a particularly exciting 7th????

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 5:22:42 PM UTC-7, randy wolfgang wrote:
> For some reason many seem to think that if you like Mahler you must like Bruckner. T'aint so, Magee!! I do like the Fourth but for all of the others (and Lord knows I have tried with quite a few different conductors) I am reminded of a story I once read. You are walking down the street and meet an old fat Austrian friend. You greet each other and he tells you he has the most fascinating story to tell you. He goes on for an hour telling you how great the story is and you part ways when you realize he never told you the story!!!And that's how I feel about Bruckner - a bunch of disconnected ideas with no cohesive connection. Maybe one day it will hit me - happened before with other works but for now I just don't relate

https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/FQ28Ctpe7EI/m/6k9Nx18fN0UJ

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 5:22:42 PM UTC-7, randy wolfgang wrote:
> For some reason many seem to think that if you like Mahler you must like Bruckner. T'aint so, Magee!! I do like the Fourth but for all of the others (and Lord knows I have tried with quite a few different conductors) I am reminded of a story I once read. You are walking down the street and meet an old fat Austrian friend. You greet each other and he tells you he has the most fascinating story to tell you. He goes on for an hour telling you how great the story is and you part ways when you realize he never told you the story!!!And that's how I feel about Bruckner - a bunch of disconnected ideas with no cohesive connection. Maybe one day it will hit me - happened before with other works but for now I just don't relate

https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/UcKmBx3GD4E/m/JmCT-RUK9egJ

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 12:31:06 PM UTC-7, randy wolfgang wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 1:55:27 PM UTC-4, randy wolfgang wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 1:21:27 PM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 3:10:06 PM UTC+2, peter gutmann wrote:
> > >
> > > > He was a peasant who craved acceptance but was crushed by the snubs of society and the critical establishment.
> > > This needs some sad Hollywood violins and some free kleenex.
> > And a score by Max Steiner and heavenly choir???? LOL randy
> Just listened to the Honeck Bruckner 4 via lossless and it was wonderful - as I said I find the 4th the most coherent to me. This was very exciting and beautifully recorded. Any of the Brucknerians (Brucknerites??) recommend a particularly exciting 7th????

https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/z2iNrspyE8w/m/K890VRHcZ0sJ

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 3:43:50 PM UTC-4, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 5:22:42 PM UTC-7, randy wolfgang wrote:
> > For some reason many seem to think that if you like Mahler you must like Bruckner. T'aint so, Magee!! I do like the Fourth but for all of the others (and Lord knows I have tried with quite a few different conductors) I am reminded of a story I once read. You are walking down the street and meet an old fat Austrian friend. You greet each other and he tells you he has the most fascinating story to tell you. He goes on for an hour telling you how great the story is and you part ways when you realize he never told you the story!!!And that's how I feel about Bruckner - a bunch of disconnected ideas with no cohesive connection. Maybe one day it will hit me - happened before with other works but for now I just don't relate
> https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/FQ28Ctpe7EI/m/6k9Nx18fN0UJ
Appreciated but I'm actually more interested in what the members here have to say Randy

On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 12:31:03 -0700 (PDT), randy wolfgang
<meyersimon530@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 1:55:27 PM UTC-4, randy wolfgang wrote:
>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 1:21:27 PM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 3:10:06 PM UTC+2, peter gutmann wrote:
>> >
>> > > He was a peasant who craved acceptance but was crushed by the snubs of society and the critical establishment.
>> > This needs some sad Hollywood violins and some free kleenex.
>> And a score by Max Steiner and heavenly choir???? LOL randy
>Just listened to the Honeck Bruckner 4 via lossless and it was wonderful - as I said I find the 4th the most coherent to me. This was very exciting and beautifully recorded. Any of the Brucknerians (Brucknerites??) recommend a particularly exciting 7th????

I posted this here on 4/14/2022 under the headinng "Bracing Bruckner".
>From a seemingly unlikely source: Stanislaw Skrowaczerski and the
>Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Saarbrücken. I listened on Spotify to the
>entire set, which includes besides nos 1-9, the Symphonies 0, 00,
>Overture in g minor and the conductor's own arrangement for strings of
>the Adagio of the F Major String Quintet. The sound produced is out
>of this world and the performances are rhythmically alive. I have
>never enjoyed Bruckner more. However, I made the mistake of not
>taking a break between symphonies to listen to something else.
>Bruckner's sound world tires the ears after a while. My impression is
>that brass predominates 50% of the time, strings 40% with woodwinds
>only 10%. Woodwind solos don't seem to last more than a few bars. But
>those brass outbursts can be very exciting.

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 4:27:50 PM UTC-4, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 12:31:03 -0700 (PDT), randy wolfgang
> <meyers...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 1:55:27 PM UTC-4, randy wolfgang wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 1:21:27 PM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> >> > On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 3:10:06 PM UTC+2, peter gutmann wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > He was a peasant who craved acceptance but was crushed by the snubs of society and the critical establishment.
> >> > This needs some sad Hollywood violins and some free kleenex.
> >> And a score by Max Steiner and heavenly choir???? LOL randy
> >Just listened to the Honeck Bruckner 4 via lossless and it was wonderful - as I said I find the 4th the most coherent to me. This was very exciting and beautifully recorded. Any of the Brucknerians (Brucknerites??) recommend a particularly exciting 7th????
> I posted this here on 4/14/2022 under the headinng "Bracing Bruckner".
> >From a seemingly unlikely source: Stanislaw Skrowaczerski and the
> >Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Saarbrücken. I listened on Spotify to the
> >entire set, which includes besides nos 1-9, the Symphonies 0, 00,
> >Overture in g minor and the conductor's own arrangement for strings of
> >the Adagio of the F Major String Quintet. The sound produced is out
> >of this world and the performances are rhythmically alive. I have
> >never enjoyed Bruckner more. However, I made the mistake of not
> >taking a break between symphonies to listen to something else.
> >Bruckner's sound world tires the ears after a while. My impression is
> >that brass predominates 50% of the time, strings 40% with woodwinds
> >only 10%. Woodwind solos don't seem to last more than a few bars. But
> >those brass outbursts can be very exciting.
From what I have read isn't the brass of supreme importance in Bruckner???

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 5:22:42 PM UTC-7, randy wolfgang wrote:
>
> For some reason many seem to think that if you like
> Mahler you must like Bruckner. T'aint so, Magee!! I do
> like the Fourth but for all of the others (and Lord knows
> I have tried with quite a few different conductors) I am
> reminded of a story I once read. You are walking down
> the street and meet an old fat Austrian friend. You greet
> each other and he tells you he has the most fascinating
> story to tell you. He goes on for an hour telling you how
> great the story is and you part ways when you realize he
> never told you the story!!!And that's how I feel about
> Bruckner - a bunch of disconnected ideas with no
> cohesive connection. Maybe one day it will hit me -
> happened before with other works but for now I just
> don't relate

Try to 5th, IMHO the most competent of his works.
Even DH has an opinion about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G18XdeHDyxE

dk

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 9:15:45 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 5:22:42 PM UTC-7, randy wolfgang wrote:
> >
> > For some reason many seem to think that if you like
> > Mahler you must like Bruckner. T'aint so, Magee!! I do
> > like the Fourth but for all of the others (and Lord knows
> > I have tried with quite a few different conductors) I am
> > reminded of a story I once read. You are walking down
> > the street and meet an old fat Austrian friend. You greet
> > each other and he tells you he has the most fascinating
> > story to tell you. He goes on for an hour telling you how
> > great the story is and you part ways when you realize he
> > never told you the story!!!And that's how I feel about
> > Bruckner - a bunch of disconnected ideas with no
> > cohesive connection. Maybe one day it will hit me -
> > happened before with other works but for now I just
> > don't relate
> Try to 5th, IMHO the most competent of his works.
> Even DH has an opinion about it:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G18XdeHDyxE
>
> dk
Very interesting discussion on the structure of a symphony about which I knew nothing. Two of Hurwitzs favorites are the Abbado and Harnoncourt both with my favorite orchestra the Vienna Philharmonic and both on Lossless streaming so be happy to hear them Thanks so much Randy

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 8:22:42 PM UTC-4, randy wolfgang wrote:
> For some reason many seem to think that if you like Mahler you must like Bruckner. T'aint so, Magee!! I do like the Fourth but for all of the others (and Lord knows I have tried with quite a few different conductors) I am reminded of a story I once read. You are walking down the street and meet an old fat Austrian friend. You greet each other and he tells you he has the most fascinating story to tell you. He goes on for an hour telling you how great the story is and you part ways when you realize he never told you the story!!!And that's how I feel about Bruckner - a bunch of disconnected ideas with no cohesive connection. Maybe one day it will hit me - happened before with other works but for now I just don't relate
One name I keep see coming up regarding Bruckner conducting is the Japanese Takashi Asahina. As a matter of fact a long time ago a friend sent me his complete Bruckner recordings some in multiple versions I think. They are filed away - any comments/opinions????