I haven't seen a thread on this for a while so hoping for an update. Presumably we include harpsichord, clavichord and various types of firewood, though my primary interest is the piano.

Several complete piano versions from the likes of Richter, Feinberg, Gould, Gavrilov, Fischer, Tureck, Schiff and others........

So who are your choices to navigate us through this major work?

On 7/27/2022 11:06 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> I haven't seen a thread on this for a while so hoping for an update. Presumably we include harpsichord, clavichord and various types of firewood, though my primary interest is the piano.
>
> Several complete piano versions from the likes of Richter, Feinberg, Gould, Gavrilov, Fischer, Tureck, Schiff and others........
>
> So who are your choices to navigate us through this major work?

A bunch of incompetents playing on instruments that should have been burned years before. You must listen only to HJ Lim, of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8MA0miKxA

On Wednesday, 27 July 2022 at 16:12:30 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> You must listen only to HJ Lim, of course.

Please, no! She would be close to the bottom of the list - impulsive shapeless playing with a lot of micro-pauses before notes.

I like a lot of Gould and Gavrilov, some Feinberg, some parts of the older versions like Gieseking, Fischer, Demus and Backhaus. No Richter in my case. But I'm looking beyond these to some versions I'm unfamiliar with.

But let's hear it in general from our panel of enthusiasts!

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 4:06:46 PM UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:
> I haven't seen a thread on this for a while so hoping for an update. Presumably we include harpsichord, clavichord and various types of firewood, though my primary interest is the piano.
>
> Several complete piano versions from the likes of Richter, Feinberg, Gould, Gavrilov, Fischer, Tureck, Schiff and others........
>
> So who are your choices to navigate us through this major work?

Peter Hill
Andrea Bacchetti
Jorg Demus at Museo Cristofori in Weyregg at the Attersee in 1999 and 2000 (you can get it on symphonyshare)
Valery Afanassiev

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 4:25:22 PM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 4:06:46 PM UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:
> > I haven't seen a thread on this for a while so hoping for an update. Presumably we include harpsichord, clavichord and various types of firewood, though my primary interest is the piano.
> >
> > Several complete piano versions from the likes of Richter, Feinberg, Gould, Gavrilov, Fischer, Tureck, Schiff and others........
> >
> > So who are your choices to navigate us through this major work?
> Peter Hill
> Andrea Bacchetti
> Jorg Demus at Museo Cristofori in Weyregg at the Attersee in 1999 and 2000 (you can get it on symphonyshare)
> Valery Afanassiev

I mean, if you really MUST have a piano!

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 11:06:46 AM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:
> I haven't seen a thread on this for a while so hoping for an update. Presumably we include harpsichord, clavichord and various types of firewood, though my primary interest is the piano.
>
> Several complete piano versions from the likes of Richter, Feinberg, Gould, Gavrilov, Fischer, Tureck, Schiff and others........
>
> So who are your choices to navigate us through this major work?

Aside from "best version" being completely subjective, the WTC comprises 48 individual pieces, you might have to mix and match to get a best version. Helmut Walcha on DG works best for me, as this set is performed on a period instrument as opposed to the ugly Ammer harpsichord he used in his EMI recordings. It's just a no-nonsense straight-laced performance that I can take in the breadth of Bach's musical imagination when going through the entire set (something I don't do very often) and am not to concerned with the individual interpretations of each piece.

On 7/27/22 10:06 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> I haven't seen a thread on this for a while so hoping for an update. Presumably we include harpsichord, clavichord and various types of firewood, though my primary interest is the piano.
>
> Several complete piano versions from the likes of Richter, Feinberg, Gould, Gavrilov, Fischer, Tureck, Schiff and others........
>
> So who are your choices to navigate us through this major work?

Robert Levin uses a variety of instruments: harpsichord, organ,
clavichord and even some fortepiano.

Frank Berger a présenté l'énoncé suivant :
> A bunch of incompetents playing on instruments that should have been burned
> years before. You must listen only to HJ Lim, of course.

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8MA0miKxA

Beuuarrkkk...

I have Glen Wilson and Gustav Leonhardt on harpsichord, both terrific.

On Wednesday, 27 July 2022 at 16:25:22 UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
> Peter Hill
> Andrea Bacchetti
> Jorg Demus at Museo Cristofori in Weyregg at the Attersee in 1999 and 2000 (you can get it on symphonyshare)
> Valery Afanassiev

Thanks for that - some unfamiliar names. For me Hill is too slow and Bachetti too "expressive". But I already like Demus and I'm following up Afanassiev.

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 8:20:46 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Wednesday, 27 July 2022 at 16:12:30 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> >
> > You must listen only to HJ Lim, of course.
> Please, no! She would be close to the bottom
> of the list - impulsive shapeless playing with
> a lot of micro-pauses before notes.

You have been excommunicated, effective
immediately! ;-)

Now seriously, HJ Lim is the only pianist
who makes the WTC sound completely
fresh, as if it were improvised on the spot
like jazz. Compared to her, everyone else
sounds square, dull, wooden and boring.
Even Richter, Fischer, Gulda and Feinberg.

From the mainstream performances, the
only one I can still tolerate is Feltsman.

I also like John Lewis + MJQ.

dk

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 8:06:46 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> I haven't seen a thread on this for a while so
> hoping for an update. Presumably we include
> harpsichord, clavichord and various types of
> firewood, though my primary interest is the
> piano.

Getting excited about paleo instruments? ;-)

> Several complete piano versions from the
> likes of Richter, Feinberg, Gould, Gavrilov,
> Fischer, Tureck, Schiff and others........

No longer bearable. Still living in a cave?
Gould, Schiff and Tureck in particular are
execrable.

> So who are your choices to navigate us
> through this major work?

There are no "choices", only a set menu.
HJ Lim, Feltsman, John Lewis + MJQ.

dj

On 7/27/2022 11:20 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Wednesday, 27 July 2022 at 16:12:30 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>>
>> You must listen only to HJ Lim, of course.
>
> Please, no! She would be close to the bottom of the list - impulsive shapeless playing with a lot of micro-pauses before notes.
>

You couldn't tell I was channeling Dan? I thought it would have been obvious.

Seriously, though. I have no expertise in and limited experience with this music. I listened to the first few minutes of Lim and Richter and could barely tell they were playing the same music. Nevertheless, I thought Lim's playing was very beautiful. Will listen to more. It sounded improvisational somehow.

> I like a lot of Gould and Gavrilov, some Feinberg, some parts of the older versions like Gieseking, Fischer, Demus and Backhaus. No Richter in my case. But I'm looking beyond these to some versions I'm unfamiliar with.
>
> But let's hear it in general from our panel of enthusiasts!
>

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 8:06:46 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> I haven't seen a thread on this for a while so hoping for an update. Presumably we include harpsichord, clavichord and various types of firewood, though my primary interest is the piano.
>
> Several complete piano versions from the likes of Richter, Feinberg, Gould, Gavrilov, Fischer, Tureck, Schiff and others........
>
> So who are your choices to navigate us through this major work?

(2022 Y. upload):

Repertoire: Miniature Masterpieces No. 43 (Bach)

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 10:01:28 AM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> Seriously, though. I have no expertise in
> and limited experience with this music.

Why sound so apologetic? One does not
need to be a chef or have experience with
food in order to enjoy food. Referring to
"expertise" and "experience" with music
as a listener is a perfect example of how
the music industry has brainwashed and
indoctrinated generations of listeners. No
need for philosophy -- just listen and trust
your ears.

> I listened to the first few minutes of Lim
> and Richter and could barely tell they were
> playing the same music.

They aren't. It is not the "same music". There
is no such thing as "music" in the abstract,
independent of actual performances.

> Nevertheless, I thought Lim's playing was
> very beautiful.

Good ears.

> Will listen to more. It sounded improvisational
> somehow.

Bingo! This is the very essence of performance.

dk

Let me use this thread to ask a favour.

Can anyone share with me the files of Emile Naoumoff's WTC -- especially WTC2? I just haven't been able to find it for sale anywhere.

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 10:26:03 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
>
> Let me use this thread to ask a favour.
> Can anyone share with me the files of
> Emile Naoumoff's WTC -- especially
> WTC2? I just haven't been able to
> find it for sale anywhere.

I have it, and I would be happy to rip it
and send a copy your way. This could
take a few days since a large fraction
of my record collection is in storage,
and I have no idea where things are
in that pile.

As a heads up, Naoumoff's approach
sounds somewhat similar to Edwin
Fischer, which many would describe
as "mainstream romantic". I find it
rather surprising that someone who
appears to prefer one's music as dry
and square as you do might even be
interested in hearing Naoumoff.

Have you heard João Carlos Martins?

dk

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 9:54:58 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> There are no "choices", only a set menu.
> HJ Lim, Feltsman, John Lewis + MJQ.

Listening again to Feltsman, I am
inclined to downgrade it. I sort of
liked it when it was release, but I
find it still too metronomic after
listening to HJ Lim.

dk

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 27. Juli 2022 um 19:34:05 UTC+2:
> Listening again to Feltsman, I am
> inclined to downgrade it. I sort of
> liked it when it was release, but I
> find it still too metronomic after
> listening to HJ Lim.
>
> dk

Hah, my thoughts exactly in regards to Feltsman sounding metronomic - listened to bits of it about an hour ago - found it surprising to see you recommend this... OTOH HJ Lim (as you recommended this earlier I think in the BWV 971 thread) is just atrocious. Jazz or not, this just sucks.

Some sort of mixture between Evelyn Crochet's and Feltsman's approach would maybe sound good; on their own, I don't like either - Crochet too laid back, Feltsman too metronomic (at least from what I remember in regards to both).

I still like Feinberg and Richter (Moscow and Salzburg) most I think... Fischer is certainly interesting (but I would need to listen again).

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 1:20:43 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 10:01:28 AM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> >
> > Seriously, though. I have no expertise in
> > and limited experience with this music.
> Why sound so apologetic? One does not
> need to be a chef or have experience with
> food in order to enjoy food. Referring to
> "expertise" and "experience" with music
> as a listener is a perfect example of how
> the music industry has brainwashed and
> indoctrinated generations of listeners. No
> need for philosophy -- just listen and trust
> your ears.
> > I listened to the first few minutes of Lim
> > and Richter and could barely tell they were
> > playing the same music.
> They aren't. It is not the "same music". There
> is no such thing as "music" in the abstract,
> independent of actual performances.
> > Nevertheless, I thought Lim's playing was
> > very beautiful.
> Good ears.
> > Will listen to more. It sounded improvisational
> > somehow.
> Bingo! This is the very essence of performance.
>
> dk
You convinced me - I'll try Lim. If a performer can make an old warhorse sound fresh and new and exciting - thats it for me randy

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 11:05:10 AM UTC-7, randy wolfgang wrote:
>
> You convinced me - I'll try Lim. If a performer can
> make an old warhorse sound fresh and new and
> exciting - thats it for me randy

Thanks for paying attention. I am
deeply touched and very flattered.

Otherwise, trust your ears and
decide by yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8MA0miKxA

Enjoy!

dk

Landowska.

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 11:31:03 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 11:05:10 AM UTC-7, randy wolfgang wrote:
> >
> > You convinced me - I'll try Lim. If a performer can
> > make an old warhorse sound fresh and new and
> > exciting - thats it for me randy
>
> Thanks for paying attention. I am
> deeply touched and very flattered.
>
> Otherwise, trust your ears and
> decide by yourself:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8MA0miKxA

Also listen to John Lewis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22yLbGU3obA&list=PLknP6LootIA0ifKN8LY4YdjyUxsGndKua

dk

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 11:34:59 AM UTC-7, comptea...@gmail.com wrote:
> Landowska.

Thrice butchered.

dk

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 11:02:08 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 27. Juli 2022 um 19:34:05 UTC+2:
> > Listening again to Feltsman, I am
> > inclined to downgrade it. I sort of
> > liked it when it was release, but I
> > find it still too metronomic after
> > listening to HJ Lim.
>
> Hah, my thoughts exactly in regards to
> Feltsman sounding metronomic - listened
> to bits of it about an hour ago - found it
> surprising to see you recommend

Clarification: my memory of Feltsman
is colored by hearing him live. Studio
recordings oftentimes sound duller
artistically than live performances.

dk