https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU0jlgd9Pas

Op woensdag 24 augustus 2022 om 06:46:50 UTC+2 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU0jlgd9Pas

There has always been a close relationship between the visual arts and the exploitation of the female body, starting with the Venus of Willendorf. In essence, the art world is a man's world.

Henk

That is an extraordinarily ugly staging, glad I did not have to sit through it. Good thing Salome is a short opera.

re: Venus. We have no idea who carved her. I could just as easily be a matriarchal idol.

Op woensdag 24 augustus 2022 om 14:37:56 UTC+2 schreef sci.space:
> That is an extraordinarily ugly staging, glad I did not have to sit through it. Good thing Salome is a short opera.
>
> re: Venus. We have no idea who carved her. I could just as easily be a matriarchal idol.

It could have been but does that make a difference? For us, it is (prehistoric) art.

Henk

On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 3:16:14 AM UTC-7, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Op woensdag 24 augustus 2022 om 06:46:50 UTC+2 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU0jlgd9Pas
>
> There has always been a close relationship between
> the visual arts and the exploitation of the female body,
> starting with the Venus of Willendorf. In essence, the
> art world is a man's world.

Point well taken, however Salome is music, not visual
art. Or are you trying to suggest opera is not music?
One might be inclined to agree with such a view! ;-)

More seriously, I find the notion that Salome requires,
or could even benefit from, the singer to disrobe to be
completely ridiculous. I am a great Oscar Wilde fan,
and I know the text by heart. The only mention of
the dance is in the sentence ""Salome dances the
dance of the seven veils". Period. No description.
No explanation of what the dance is or was or
should be.

Strauss himself stipulated that the dance should
be "thoroughly decent, as if it were being done
on a prayer mat". The original production had
a ballerina perform the dance, rather the singer.

Color me confused.

dk

however Salome is music, not visual
> art.

No, Strauss's Salome is an opera, a convergence of visual and musical art, as operas have been since Monteverdi.

Op donderdag 25 augustus 2022 om 09:33:53 UTC+2 schreef dan....@gmail.com:

> Point well taken, however Salome is music, not visual
> art. Or are you trying to suggest opera is not music?
> One might be inclined to agree with such a view! ;-)
>
Opera has become primarily visual art, theatre, since existing repertoire became all-important, as in Bayreuth. For example:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/26/arts/music/tannhauser-bayreuth-review.html

Henk

Rather than have various degrees of prudery in Salome, why not just use a professional stripper and have Salome sing at the side of the stage out of sight. Prudery is crass.

Op donderdag 25 augustus 2022 om 17:14:34 UTC+2 schreef Andy Evans:
> Rather than have various degrees of prudery in Salome, why not just use a professional stripper and have Salome sing at the side of the stage out of sight. Prudery is crass.

Is it prudery to question the obsession with the female body in visual arts?

Henk

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 8:14:34 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> Rather than have various degrees of prudery in Salome,
> why not just use a professional stripper and have Salome
> sing at the side of the stage out of sight. Prudery is crass.

There is nothing in Wilde's play that calls for a strip act,
professional or not.

Here's an amusing incident. The San Francisco Opera
staged a Strauss Festival sometime during the early
1990s. Maria Ewing sang Salome and disrobed to
great applause during the 7 veils dance. About the
same time across the bay, Oakland police arrested
some jazz singer and charged her with indecent
exposure for stripping during her show at Yoshi's.
Go figure....

dk

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 2:57:44 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 8:14:34 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> >
> > Rather than have various degrees of prudery in Salome,
> > why not just use a professional stripper and have Salome
> > sing at the side of the stage out of sight. Prudery is crass.
> There is nothing in Wilde's play that calls for a strip act,
> professional or not.
>
> Here's an amusing incident. The San Francisco Opera
> staged a Strauss Festival sometime during the early
> 1990s. Maria Ewing sang Salome and disrobed to
> great applause during the 7 veils dance. About the
> same time across the bay, Oakland police arrested
> some jazz singer and charged her with indecent
> exposure for stripping during her show at Yoshi's.
> Go figure....
>
> dk
If I remember right one of the LP issues of the opera (I think the Bohm-Jones) had the Wilde play alongside the opera libretto in the booklet. Randy

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:52:58 PM UTC-4, randy wolfgang wrote:
> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 2:57:44 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 8:14:34 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> > >
> > > Rather than have various degrees of prudery in Salome,
> > > why not just use a professional stripper and have Salome
> > > sing at the side of the stage out of sight. Prudery is crass.
> > There is nothing in Wilde's play that calls for a strip act,
> > professional or not.
> >
> > Here's an amusing incident. The San Francisco Opera
> > staged a Strauss Festival sometime during the early
> > 1990s. Maria Ewing sang Salome and disrobed to
> > great applause during the 7 veils dance. About the
> > same time across the bay, Oakland police arrested
> > some jazz singer and charged her with indecent
> > exposure for stripping during her show at Yoshi's.
> > Go figure....
> >
> > dk
> If I remember right one of the LP issues of the opera (I think the Bohm-Jones) had the Wilde play alongside the opera libretto in the booklet. Randy
Karita Mattila also stripped down to nothing (for a second) The night I saw her she was really on and I almost got hoarse with my bravos. It was hot! Randy

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 8:55:39 PM UTC-7, randy wolfgang wrote:
>
> Karita Mattila also stripped down to nothing (for a second)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQsqG8uPDho

I would rather not watch! ;-)

dk

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:19:17 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 8:55:39 PM UTC-7, randy wolfgang wrote:
> >
> > Karita Mattila also stripped down to nothing (for a second)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQsqG8uPDho
>
> I would rather not watch! ;-)
>

This is Ewing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4wsWC6_2-c

dk

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 3:32:23 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:19:17 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 8:55:39 PM UTC-7, randy wolfgang wrote:
> > >
> > > Karita Mattila also stripped down to nothing (for a second)
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQsqG8uPDho
> >
> > I would rather not watch! ;-)
> >
> This is Ewing:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4wsWC6_2-c
>

Very sorry to find out she passed away:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lkQBeYRBYk

dk