Virgil Thomson: The Plow that Broke the Plains, Suite from "The River" with
Leopold Stokowski conducting the Symphony of the Air, recorded in 1960.

I realized that I had owned four different versions of this recording. Was
there any real difference in the sound?

1. Vanguard VTC 1642 open-reel tape (no longer in my collection).
2. Vanguard VBD-385 CD. The box described this as "Digitally Mastered."
published 1987.
3. Vanguard 08 8013 71 CD. Published 1991

"A Technical Note" is provided on the notes:

"This compact disc has been meticulously transferred to the digital domain
from the original one-half-inch 30 I.P.S. master tapes employing the same
type of Ampex 300 series vacuum tube (valve) recorder on which they
were originally recorded. Especially designed playback heads and low
noise electronics were used, ensuring the greatest signal-to-noise ratio,
and the the very same alignment tapes and frequency response curves
employed at the original recording sessions were utilized to produce the
most faithful wide range response of the original masters. The unique
analogue sound characteristic of these Ampexes was thus retained. No
noise reduction or artificial equalization has been used and none was
necessary. AKG C-12 microphones were employed at the original sessions.
--Seymour Solomon Producer, Vanguard Classics."

4. Vanguard SVC 1 CD. Labeled SBM (Super Bit Mapping). Published 1994.
The notes provide the standard blurb "What is Super Bit Mapping" but provide
no further
information on what source was used for the SBM procedure. Both (4) and
(3) list the same digital mastering engineer: David Baker. I presume that
Mr. Baker
used the new master he made for CD 3, but that's a guess.

The first evening I listened to selections from each CD in
the order of their release. The next session I listened in the opposite
order because
sometimes differences show up more obviously (to me) when I go from an
excellent
version to a lesser one.

(1) I remember that I liked this because the CD didn't have the open-reel
hiss and
provided a wider frequency range. No deficits noticed at the time.

(2) I did not find the differences a dramatic as expected, but generally a
slightly
less "granular" sound picture.

(3) The SBM provided a smoother response with more "air" around the sound,
a little
like the improvement provided by SACD issues of RCA's Living Stereo
recordings.

Yep, there was a difference with each "improved" remastering, I think. I
realize that
I might have been fooling myself, but the observations seemed consistent
over
two further listening sessions.

Caveats: (1) I no longer have equipment which would have permitted matching
of listening
levels, and (2) I not longer have the hearing acuity I had 45 years ago, and
(3) I may
have been influenced by noticing the labels on the CDs. I did not have a
helper
to load the various editions so that I was blind to which was being played.

Ed Presson

On 8/28/22 9:38 PM, Ed Presson wrote:
> Virgil Thomson: The Plow that Broke the Plains, Suite from "The
> River" with Leopold Stokowski conducting the Symphony of the Air,
> recorded in 1960.

<snip>

> The first evening I listened to selections from each CD in the order
> of their release. The next session I listened in the opposite order
> because sometimes differences show up more obviously (to me) when I
> go from an excellent version to a lesser one.
>
> (1) I remember that I liked this because the CD didn't have the
> open-reel hiss and provided a wider frequency range. No deficits
> noticed at the time.
> (2) I did not find the differences a dramatic as expected, but
> generally a slightly less "granular" sound picture.
>
> (3) The SBM provided a smoother response with more "air" around the
> sound, a little like the improvement provided by SACD issues of RCA's
> Living Stereo recordings.
>
> Yep, there was a difference with each "improved" remastering, I
> think. I realize that I might have been fooling myself, but the
> observations seemed consistent over two further listening sessions.
>
> Caveats: (1) I no longer have equipment which would have permitted
> matching of listening levels, and (2) I not longer have the hearing
> acuity I had 45 years ago, and (3) I may have been influenced by
> noticing the labels on the CDs. I did not have a helper to load the
> various editions so that I was blind to which was being played.

It's possible the SBM was a treatment of the original digitizing.
I see there's another release on SACD (Vanguard VSD 501) but I didn't
see that it was a new transfer of the original.

Speaking in general, there's a race between the improvement of digital
processing and the deterioration of the original tapes. I'd be
comfortable with whatever version is currently in print unless I heard a
reason otherwise.

On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 4:01:38 PM UTC+1, MINe109 wrote:
> On 8/28/22 9:38 PM, Ed Presson wrote:
> > Virgil Thomson: The Plow that Broke the Plains, Suite from "The
> > River" with Leopold Stokowski conducting the Symphony of the Air,
> > recorded in 1960.
> <snip>
> > The first evening I listened to selections from each CD in the order
> > of their release. The next session I listened in the opposite order
> > because sometimes differences show up more obviously (to me) when I
> > go from an excellent version to a lesser one.
> >
> > (1) I remember that I liked this because the CD didn't have the
> > open-reel hiss and provided a wider frequency range. No deficits
> > noticed at the time.
> > (2) I did not find the differences a dramatic as expected, but
> > generally a slightly less "granular" sound picture.
> >
> > (3) The SBM provided a smoother response with more "air" around the
> > sound, a little like the improvement provided by SACD issues of RCA's
> > Living Stereo recordings.
> >
> > Yep, there was a difference with each "improved" remastering, I
> > think. I realize that I might have been fooling myself, but the
> > observations seemed consistent over two further listening sessions.
> >
> > Caveats: (1) I no longer have equipment which would have permitted
> > matching of listening levels, and (2) I not longer have the hearing
> > acuity I had 45 years ago, and (3) I may have been influenced by
> > noticing the labels on the CDs. I did not have a helper to load the
> > various editions so that I was blind to which was being played.
> It's possible the SBM was a treatment of the original digitizing.
> I see there's another release on SACD (Vanguard VSD 501) but I didn't
> see that it was a new transfer of the original.
>
> Speaking in general, there's a race between the improvement of digital
> processing and the deterioration of the original tapes. I'd be
> comfortable with whatever version is currently in print unless I heard a
> reason otherwise.

This YouTube upload uses the 'Vanguard Classics' CD (OVC 8013) Vol. 3 of "The Stokowski Collection" published 1991, the equivalent of No. 3 in the first list at the top ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2THARSCOA&t=451s

Sounds pretty good to me!

"mINE109" wrote in message news:teikc4$1n79$1@gioia.aioe.org...

On 8/28/22 9:38 PM, Ed Presson wrote:
> Virgil Thomson: The Plow that Broke the Plains, Suite from "The
> River" with Leopold Stokowski conducting the Symphony of the Air,
> recorded in 1960.

<snip>

> The first evening I listened to selections from each CD in the order
> of their release. The next session I listened in the opposite order
> because sometimes differences show up more obviously (to me) when I
> go from an excellent version to a lesser one.
>
> (1) I remember that I liked this because the CD didn't have the
> open-reel hiss and provided a wider frequency range. No deficits
> noticed at the time.
> (2) I did not find the differences a dramatic as expected, but
> generally a slightly less "granular" sound picture.
>
> (3) The SBM provided a smoother response with more "air" around the
> sound, a little like the improvement provided by SACD issues of RCA's
> Living Stereo recordings.
>
> Yep, there was a difference with each "improved" remastering, I
> think. I realize that I might have been fooling myself, but the
> observations seemed consistent over two further listening sessions.
>
> Caveats: (1) I no longer have equipment which would have permitted
> matching of listening levels, and (2) I not longer have the hearing
> acuity I had 45 years ago, and (3) I may have been influenced by
> noticing the labels on the CDs. I did not have a helper to load the
> various editions so that I was blind to which was being played.

>It's possible the SBM was a treatment of the original digitizing.
>I see there's another release on SACD (Vanguard VSD 501) but I didn't see
>that it was a new transfer of the original.

>Speaking in general, there's a race between the improvement of digital
>processing and the deterioration of the original tapes. I'd be comfortable
>with whatever version is currently in print unless I heard a reason
>otherwise.

That sound like a very pragmatic approach.