Now that the Netflix War For Cybertron trilogy is complete, it's worth looking at the result -- the mostly terrible and ineptly produced result. Spoilers: I don't think it is very good.

The key plotline running through the series is that Optimus and Megatron are locked in a war that will destroy Cyberton and cause them to lose themselves in the process (literally, as Megatron will be enslaved and become Galvatron, and Optimus will be enslaved and become Nemesis), and that they must find a way -- together -- to stop it. Series 1 is about making the decisions that will destroy Cybertron, Series 2 exists, and Series 3 is about finding a resolution.

This is territory that Transformers has tread before, in the G2 comic, in Beast Machines, in Armada, and it has almost become cliche at this point for the franchise. You can even see elements of it in the G1 cartoon, which exists in the "well, I guess we fought so much that everyone is dead now" aftermath, with brief glimpses of what could have been (before Ultra Magnus blows up an entire planet).

I think this might have been the most incompetently executed version of that story to date.

First, there's the actual execution of the moments of the show -- the animation is dull and indistinct, and the voice acting is just bad across the board. Even taken on its own, separate from a need to resemble the characters in previous media, the voice acting is poor. By the time we get to Kingdom, we have voice actors giving performances that sound more like the original versions of different characters that are appearing onscreen (most notably, Tigatron who sounds more like BW Dinobot than Kingdom Dinobot does), and it goes from being just different into being actively distracting and wrong.

And then there is the tendency of the writing of the show to reference key points in other stories in other continuities to attempt to give the current show the weight and motivations of the original versions -- without actually earning it or explaining it. It's a shorthand that I expect leaves the less well versed audience in the dark.

I like a good easter egg -- when understanding the easter egg is not critical to understanding the show. The moment when Optimus Primal is falling, and the animators copy the character model's movements from the original BW (I think it has to be in the opening or credits for me to recognize it so clearly) was great. Same with the opening shot of Earth with its moon from space.

But, when Kingdom Dinobot is repeating the lines from "Code of Hero" about making a choice only to discover that he has no choice -- it's being used to replace the character's entire arc with a shorthand version. And it cuts against the theme of the show -- that we have the power to make these decisions.

And I think we can all agree that we never need to hear "It's over, Prime" again, unless there is a radical reinterpretation of the line -- "Where's the flying dohickey?" "It's over Prime" or referencing the end of the war, or even the end of the show. They could also be grading the quality of meat "That's some prime beef there" "It's over prime, what's the next highest category?"

(Similarly, the only time I want to hear Ultra Magnus say "I can't deal with this now" again is if he has an injured hand and is trying to deal cards, or in a time travel story where the new present is absurd... I don't think the line was used in this series, I'm just saying... no more).

And, as a toy show, it failed to advertise the Battlemasters, Rampmasters, Minicons, bases, Fossilizers, Earthmodes, and a bunch of characters. That just seems like a mistake.

Ok, now onto the general plot of the show...

The decision to catapult the Allspark into space is just dumb and poorly thought out. Like really dumb, and I wish Transformers continuities would stop coming back to it. It was dumb in the backdop of the 2007 movie, and it was dumb now. It needs a not-stupid plan behind it, rather than a "Let's throw away the lifeblood of our planet and species!" followed by "Oh, we needed that, didn't we?"

Ultra Magnus' surrender was too early and unearned, and just led to pointless plot threads like Bumblebee and the Code of Alpha Trion. (A typo has informed me that we NEED Alpaca Trion)

I would rather it never happened, but if this was what the writers decided should be the crisis that dooms Cybertron, at least make it less dumb. A risky effort to move the Allspark to keep it out of Megatron's plans goes awry, or there is a plan to recover it, or it is being moved to lure Megatron into a trap... something. Instead it was "Oh, I guess Elita-1 was right, we needed that, didn't we?"

The looming presence of Galvatron and Nemesis was fine, but not well executed. Apparently, Megatron is strong-willed enough to fight back, but Optimus just embraces his future once it happens?

The entire Earthrise series was just a middling interlude that didn't contribute anything -- except for Sky Lynx, maybe. We go from thing to thing, here is Skorponok, here is a Quintesson, etc. Doesn't serve the theme, and doesn't really work on its own either.

Kingdom converts our BW Megatron character from a conniving, ambitious character after his own rewards to a G1 Megatron fanboy whose big idea from the get-go is to sacrifice his entire existence for G1 Megatron. And then Primal eventually embraces that, accepting wiping out his entire timeline to return the Allspark to the past. Everything else in Kingdom aside, that doesn't work -- and there's a lot of things in Kingdom that don't work.

The Golden Disk with Megatron's memoirs seem to just let the Decepticons/Predacons show up where they are supposed to be and then lose. Mirage's appearance during the rescue of Airrazor should have been noted in the memoirs, but isn't, for instance. The Decepticon-Predacon infighting should have shown up -- the memoirs have to include the Predacons and Maximals, since they have information about the rescue of Airrazor, so that inflighting should have been clear too.

I kind of lost interest and was just skimming by the end, after the episode that mentioned Nemesis about 80 times. I also don't love Nemesis Prime being a future version of Optimus in service of Unicron -- there's some precedent for it in the tech spec of Universe Mammoth Nemesis Prime, but I prefer the evil clone.

How I think it could have been better:

Trim the first series to three episodes, and just get to the launch of the Allspark earlier. No Alpha Trion, Optimus just wants to move the Allspark through a spacebridge, Ultra Magnus goes to Megatron to beg him to stop because Megatron has pushed Optimus into a risky corner... fine, four episodes. Two episodes to deal with the aftermath and successfully launch.

The second series starts showing visions of different paths the Transfomers could have taken -- rather than having a Galvatron show up briefly, just lean into alternate universes and timelines, as the Autobots are trying to find the Allspark. We get to see the war expand to Earth and endanger everyone there, we get to see war expanded to Nebulon (sell those Wal-Mart Headmaster reissues! Make Scorponok relevant!), we get to see the Quintessons enslaving the weakened Cybertron after they get the Allspark, we get to see a dark future where Megatron was the first to back away from the war (hey, that Shattered Glass Megatron figure would be an easy character model)...

And then the third series focuses on the Beasts. But first a brief interlude on a future Cybertron with Rodimus Prime and Galvatron to sell those toys (one episode, maybe just a flashback to the future that the Beasts are from). Predacons and Maximals coming together to try to stop the war that destroyed their planet and killed nearly everyone, but Beast Megatron betrays them and is stopped by G1 Optimus/Megatron working together with a heroic assist sacrifice by Optimus Primal. Then to Cybertron, restore the Allspark, Optimus asks Megatron if they are going to keep fighting, Megatron says "It's over, Prime", end credits.

Basically, clean up the first series, make the second series relevant, and clean up the motivations in the third series while cutting back the Allspark vision crap. The Beasts might come from a post-apocolyptic Earth rather than Cybertron, since Earth has the Allspark.

On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 4:15:00 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> Now that the Netflix War For Cybertron trilogy is complete, it's worth looking at the result -- the mostly terrible and ineptly produced result. Spoilers: I don't think it is very good.

It got worse as it progressed. I get the feeling that when they were writing Siege and Earthrise, they had no idea they'd be forced to shoehorn all the Beast Wars characters into the story at the end.
> First, there's the actual execution of the moments of the show -- the animation is dull and indistinct, and the voice acting is just bad across the board.

I know after Siege and Earthrise aired, a lot of people were complaining that the voice delivery for a lot of characters (notably Optimus Prime) was abysmally slow. It didn't bother me for the first two shows, but by Kingdom it was really beginning to grate on me. It's like an entire series filled with robot William Shatners.

> By the time we get to Kingdom, we have voice actors giving performances that sound more like the original versions of different characters
> that are appearing onscreen

You can tell that whoever voiced Blackarachnia had listened to some of Venus Terzo's delivery and gave her the same type of inflections. She had the same sultry quality to her delivery. And whoever did Rattrap did a very decent job. But the two actors who were emulating the original voice performances only served to make the other characters sound even more wrong. Primal was horribly miscast, as was T. rex Megatron.

> And then there is the tendency of the writing of the show to reference key points in other stories in other continuities to attempt to give the current show the weight and motivations of the original versions -- without actually earning it or explaining it. It's a shorthand that I expect leaves the less well versed audience in the dark.

At one point when my son and I were watching, he stopped and asked me about the Golden Disk. I had to explain what they were from Beast Wars (and that there were actually two of them, an Earth one with Megatron's secret messaged encoded on it, and a Vok one that was totally unrelated) but I didn't really know how much of that would factor into the Netflix show specifically. There are all these things from G1 and Beast Wars like the Matrix and the Ark and Alpha Trion, but are they the *same* Matrix, the *same* Ark, etc..?

> But, when Kingdom Dinobot is repeating the lines from "Code of Hero" about making a choice only to discover that he has no choice -- it's being used to replace the character's entire arc with a shorthand version. And it cuts against the theme of the show -- that we have the power to make these decisions.

That felt cheap. And it wasn't just a catch phrase that was thrown in there to appease the longtime Beast Wars fans... it was a large chunk of his "Code of Hero" solliloquy. I already knew what he was going to say before he finished saying it. It's like somebody had vague childhood memories of Dinobot dying in Beast Wars and wanted to evoke that same emotion and pathos. You're right, though, Kingdom Dinobot never earns it.
> (Similarly, the only time I want to hear Ultra Magnus say "I can't deal with this now" again is if he has an injured hand and is trying to deal cards

How about a story that takes place at a used car dealership? (And probably has the Throttlebots in it?)

> And, as a toy show, it failed to advertise the Battlemasters, Rampmasters, Minicons, bases, Fossilizers, Earthmodes, and a bunch of characters. That just seems like a mistake.

I liked that there was a comparatively small, tight-knit cast of important characters. Which is one of the reasons throwing all the Beast Wars guys from Kingdom into the mix felt like a mistake. (Cheetor and Tigatron and Rattrap hardly got to do anything.)

> (A typo has informed me that we NEED Alpaca Trion)

Yes, this needs to happen.

> The looming presence of Galvatron and Nemesis was fine, but not well executed. Apparently, Megatron is strong-willed enough to fight back, but Optimus just embraces his future once it happens?

I don't like that Nemesis Prime is just evil Optimus Prime from the future. It makes Galvatron less unique and less special, for one. And, as you said, it means Optimus just lets Unicron turn him into a bad guy. That's awful.

> The entire Earthrise series was just a middling interlude that didn't contribute anything -- except for Sky Lynx, maybe. We go from thing to thing, here is Skorponok, here is a Quintesson, etc. Doesn't serve the theme, and doesn't really work on its own either.

I mean, all Transformers shows are like that when you get right down to it.

> Kingdom converts our BW Megatron character from a conniving, ambitious character after his own rewards to a G1 Megatron fanboy whose big idea from the get-go is to sacrifice his entire existence for G1 Megatron.

Making T. rex Megatron a sycophant was pointless, especially in a story that already had Starscream in it. With that said, the little kid in me did get a kick out of seeing the BW characters and the G1 characters mix it up. Galvatron fighting T. rex Megatron, Optimus Prime fighting Optimus Primal.... never thought I'd ever see anything like that.

> Then to Cybertron, restore the Allspark, Optimus asks Megatron if they are going to keep fighting, Megatron says "It's over, Prime", end credits.

Now THAT'S how you reuse a classic line. Put a new spin on it.

Here are some other random thoughts I had.

I liked watching Laserbeak chasing Airazor or watching Cheetor and Tigatron fight Ravage. Animal symmetry.

Having Blackarachnia kiss Airazor feels wrong. It's got the same kind of flavor as hinting at a girl-on-girl relationship between Teela and New Black Character in He-Man: Revelations. It seems to be orchestrated specifically to make the newer shows feel more modern and more woke. Gay relationships don't bother me, but it bothers me when they rewrite existing characters and add gay relationships where none existed previously.

Yes, yes, traditional male-and-female relationships are literally everywhere, and we're teaching kids that heteronormative is the default setting, and there's not nearly enough gay representation in media. I totally get that.. But at the same time, every time I see a kids' show try to do something like this, it gets cancelled. Rebecca Sugar pushed and pushed to make Steven Universe more inclusive until the networks pushed back and ended the show. Arthur on PBS outed one of the teachers, and now the show's being axed after 25 years. For better or for worse, audiences don't want homosexuality in their children's programming. Writers have learned it's safer to fly under the radar and merely suggest things (like with Teela) and let the audience put the puzzle pieces together themselves.

On a completely different note, I'm disappointed that Galvatron didn't look more like his Kingdom toy.

Also, Bumblebee never transformed to his vehicle mode. At any point. We never saw it once.

Zob (glad I watched Kingdom, but probably won't be watching it again any time soon)

Zobovor <zmfts@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 4:15:00 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the
> Seattle Wombats wrote:
>

>> The entire Earthrise series was just a middling interlude that didn't
>> contribute anything -- except for Sky Lynx, maybe. We go from thing to
>> thing, here is Skorponok, here is a Quintesson, etc. Doesn't serve the
>> theme, and doesn't really work on its own either.
>
> I mean, all Transformers shows are like that when you get right down to it.

No. Just no.

Not in G1, Not in BW or BM, Not in Animated or Prime. No one knows what
happened in Energon, though, since no one has managed to sit through it.

There were loose episodes that were unconnected, but they had a beginning,
middle and end. This was just wander aimlessly from cliffhanger to
cliffhanger doing nothing in between.

>> Kingdom converts our BW Megatron character from a conniving, ambitious
>> character after his own rewards to a G1 Megatron fanboy whose big idea
>> from the get-go is to sacrifice his entire existence for G1 Megatron.
>
> Making T. rex Megatron a sycophant was pointless, especially in a story
> that already had Starscream in it. With that said, the little kid in me
> did get a kick out of seeing the BW characters and the G1 characters mix
> it up. Galvatron fighting T. rex Megatron, Optimus Prime fighting
> Optimus Primal... never thought I'd ever see anything like that.

The different continuities interacting was fun, even if it was best when
they didn’t speak. I loved Airazor referring to “um… red guy” though.

> I liked watching Laserbeak chasing Airazor or watching Cheetor and
> Tigatron fight Ravage. Animal symmetry.

I don’t like the reveal that Airazor let herself get captured. It would
have required her to have a lot more knowledge than she did at that time.
It was to explain putting the trackers on everyone, but I trust Airazor
could have done that it being captured, taking advantage of the situation.

> Having Blackarachnia kiss Airazor feels wrong. It's got the same kind of
> flavor as hinting at a girl-on-girl relationship between Teela and New
> Black Character in He-Man: Revelations. It seems to be orchestrated
> specifically to make the newer shows feel more modern and more woke. Gay
> relationships don't bother me, but it bothers me when they rewrite
> existing characters and add gay relationships where none existed previously.
>
> Yes, yes, traditional male-and-female relationships are literally
> everywhere, and we're teaching kids that heteronormative is the default
> setting, and there's not nearly enough gay representation in media. I
> totally get that. But at the same time, every time I see a kids' show
> try to do something like this, it gets cancelled. Rebecca Sugar pushed
> and pushed to make Steven Universe more inclusive until the networks
> pushed back and ended the show. Arthur on PBS outed one of the teachers,
> and now the show's being axed after 25 years. For better or for worse,
> audiences don't want homosexuality in their children's programming.
> Writers have learned it's safer to fly under the radar and merely suggest
> things (like with Teela) and let the audience put the puzzle pieces together themselves.

She-Ra is pretty gay. And awesome.

New Voltron had a tiny bit of gay.

I think some shows add it towards the end because they’re going to get
cancelled soon anyway, rather than that they get cancelled because there’s
a little bit of gay.

>
> On a completely different note, I'm disappointed that Galvatron didn't
> look more like his Kingdom toy.

I’m disappointed he didn’t make out with Megatron.

> Also, Bumblebee never transformed to his vehicle mode. At any point. We
> never saw it once.

I thought he drove around in Siege. I don’t want to go back and watch it
though.

> Zob (glad I watched Kingdom, but probably won't be watching it again any time soon)
>

On 8/1/2021 5:51 PM, Zobovor wrote:
> Having Blackarachnia kiss Airazor feels wrong
> It seems to be orchestrated specifically to make the newer shows feel more modern and more woke.

Woke pandering/queerbaiting/whatever you want to call it is an
irritating trend.

I haven't seen the show, but in this case I think this is supposed to be
"edgy" and "hot" to try and sell you that _this_ Transformers show is
totally hip and not for kids.

I don't know what you call this trend of trying to make childrens'
entertainment dark and edgy, but it's just as annoying. They do this so
fanboys/fangirls can feel less "guilty" for watching properties that
were originally designed for kids.

On Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 11:27:21 AM UTC-6, Travoltron wrote:

> I don't know what you call this trend of trying to make childrens'
> entertainment dark and edgy, but it's just as annoying. They do this so
> fanboys/fangirls can feel less "guilty" for watching properties that
> were originally designed for kids.

I'm a middle-aged adult and I definitely have different sensibilities than I did as a kid. But that doesn't mean I always want dark, gritty entertainment filled with angst-riddled heroes and all my favorite characters get killed.

If I've outgrown children's entertainment, then I don't watch it. I loved Sesame Street and Mister Roger's Neighborhood, at one time, but there's not much for my adult mind to enjoy (though I do enjoy Jim Henson and Frank Oz's puppetry to this day). I used to be a huge fan of Scooby-Doo, Where Are You? but I don't find myself tracking down episodes on DVD or anything (though I will say YouTube has some of the original music tracks from the show, and those are quite entertaining). But there are still things about some of the stuff I grew up on (Transformers, Star Wars, etc.) that I manage to still find enjoyment in, even after all these decades.

If there really is children's media that I've outgrown, then turning Big Bird into a drug addict or reinventing Mister Rogers as a gun-toting vigilante is not the answer. It only ruins what once was pure and innocent. Making kiddie fare dark and edgy does not improve it. It destroys it utterly.

I really haven't been vocal about my dislike of He-Man: Revelations, mainly because I don't want to be lumped in with all the angry fanboys who are already doing plenty of complaining for me. It's become trendy now to write articles making fun of the pathetic man-children who are whining about how He-Man was ruined. The perception seems to be that all these man-babies can't handle strong female characters, and that's why they're furious. The original He-Man cartoon was one of the few shows I watched growing up that actually HAD strong female characters. Smurfette was a worthless bimbo, but then you changed the channel and you had Teela carrying a sword and deflecting laser bolts right alongside He-Man and Man-At-Arms, and Evil-Lyn with powerful sorcery that rivaled Skeletor himself. They were awesome.

I could go on, but I'd probably better stop.

Zob (has opinions and gets in trouble, in precisely that order)

On Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 9:53:54 PM UTC-4, Zobovor wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 11:27:21 AM UTC-6, Travoltron wrote:
>
> > I don't know what you call this trend of trying to make childrens'
> > entertainment dark and edgy, but it's just as annoying. They do this so
> > fanboys/fangirls can feel less "guilty" for watching properties that
> > were originally designed for kids.
> I'm a middle-aged adult and I definitely have different sensibilities than I did as a kid. But that doesn't mean I always want dark, gritty entertainment filled with angst-riddled heroes and all my favorite characters get killed.
>
> If I've outgrown children's entertainment, then I don't watch it. I loved Sesame Street and Mister Roger's Neighborhood, at one time, but there's not much for my adult mind to enjoy (though I do enjoy Jim Henson and Frank Oz's puppetry to this day).

Go back and watch The Muppet Show and tell me that's "kids fare".
Where did the concept of "clean" meaning "kiddie" come from? Andrew Dice Clay used to be "edgy"(dicey(pun intended) if he was ever actually funny) because he cursed. Now every two-bit 'comic' curses every other word and there is no comedy left. Watch(if you can) Amy Schumer for a couple seconds and take out every curse word. There's nothing left.
OTOH, Dave Chappelle doesnt need to curse at all. His stuff is hilarious and the cursing just makes him look desperate for 'street cred'.

Zobovor <zmfts@aol.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 11:27:21 AM UTC-6, Travoltron wrote:
>
>> I don't know what you call this trend of trying to make childrens'
>> entertainment dark and edgy, but it's just as annoying. They do this so
>> fanboys/fangirls can feel less "guilty" for watching properties that
>> were originally designed for kids.
>
> I'm a middle-aged adult and I definitely have different sensibilities
> than I did as a kid. But that doesn't mean I always want dark, gritty
> entertainment filled with angst-riddled heroes and all my favorite characters get killed.
>
> If I've outgrown children's entertainment, then I don't watch it. I
> loved Sesame Street and Mister Roger's Neighborhood, at one time, but
> there's not much for my adult mind to enjoy (though I do enjoy Jim Henson
> and Frank Oz's puppetry to this day). I used to be a huge fan of
> Scooby-Doo, Where Are You? but I don't find myself tracking down episodes
> on DVD or anything (though I will say YouTube has some of the original
> music tracks from the show, and those are quite entertaining). But there
> are still things about some of the stuff I grew up on (Transformers, Star
> Wars, etc.) that I manage to still find enjoyment in, even after all these decades.
>
> If there really is children's media that I've outgrown, then turning Big
> Bird into a drug addict or reinventing Mister Rogers as a gun-toting
> vigilante is not the answer. It only ruins what once was pure and
> innocent. Making kiddie fare dark and edgy does not improve it. It destroys it utterly.
>
> I really haven't been vocal about my dislike of He-Man: Revelations,
> mainly because I don't want to be lumped in with all the angry fanboys
> who are already doing plenty of complaining for me. It's become trendy
> now to write articles making fun of the pathetic man-children who are
> whining about how He-Man was ruined. The perception seems to be that all
> these man-babies can't handle strong female characters, and that's why
> they're furious. The original He-Man cartoon was one of the few shows I
> watched growing up that actually HAD strong female characters. Smurfette
> was a worthless bimbo, but then you changed the channel and you had Teela
> carrying a sword and deflecting laser bolts right alongside He-Man and
> Man-At-Arms, and Evil-Lyn with powerful sorcery that rivaled Skeletor
> himself. They were awesome.

Not sure what the problem with MOTU: Revelations is. I watched it, it was …
fine. Not great, but ok. Motivations of characters seemed mostly natural,
there was action, the loss of magic was an interesting twist.

It might not have been the story people expected, but it was … fine.

Too many chicks? Man-At-Arms and Robotman had major roles, and a lot of the
villains were dudes. It’s a story about the second fiddles, and the second
fiddles in the original were chicks. Adam has a major part to play, even if
he only has a cameo.

I do think the new She-Ra was better, because it did new things, and told a
different, more interesting story, and it had Kyle, the hapless horde boy.

The Thundercats reboot from 2011 was also great.

I think MOTU would have been better served by a complete reboot, and using
the character archetypes to set up the story they wanted to tell without
all the baggage of the past. It had some weird tonal shifts between
Skeletor being his stupid old self and the rest of the show. The tonal
shifts were what bothered me most.

On Thursday, August 5, 2021 at 1:43:22 AM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> It had some weird tonal shifts between Skeletor being his stupid old self and the rest of the show. The tonal shifts were what bothered me most.

Actually, that's something that really bothered me. Now, being a kid's show, Skeletor from the original cartoon could never really win, and obviously he could never actually kill anybody. But in-universe, he was considered a threat and a dangerous villain.

But then the writers injected real-world sensibilities into the new show and rewrote Skeletor as having a history of being a buffoon and a failure, which isn't true to the character at all. It's the result of adult writers applying real-world logic to a kids' cartoon show. It's the same thing that happened to Cobra Commander in G.I. Joe, and Shredder in Ninja Turtles. Both characters developed a reputation for being hapless bad guys incapable of defeating the good guys. Of course, by that logic, the good guys in all these shows were also incompetent because they were never able to kill the bad guys, either. So it goes both ways.

The point is, Skeletor wasn't a buffoon in the old show. His henchmen were scared of him and He-Man and the rest perceived him as dangerous. The characters suddenly perceiving him as a joke is not authentic to the character at all.

Zob (getting up at four in the morning isn't that different from getting up at five, I guess)

Zobovor <zmfts@aol.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, August 5, 2021 at 1:43:22 AM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the
> Seattle Wombats wrote:
>
>> It had some weird tonal shifts between Skeletor being his stupid old
>> self and the rest of the show. The tonal shifts were what bothered me most.
>
> Actually, that's something that really bothered me. Now, being a kid's
> show, Skeletor from the original cartoon could never really win, and
> obviously he could never actually kill anybody. But in-universe, he was
> considered a threat and a dangerous villain.
>
> But then the writers injected real-world sensibilities into the new show
> and rewrote Skeletor as having a history of being a buffoon and a
> failure, which isn't true to the character at all. It's the result of
> adult writers applying real-world logic to a kids' cartoon show. It's
> the same thing that happened to Cobra Commander in G.I. Joe, and Shredder
> in Ninja Turtles. Both characters developed a reputation for being
> hapless bad guys incapable of defeating the good guys. Of course, by
> that logic, the good guys in all these shows were also incompetent
> because they were never able to kill the bad guys, either. So it goes both ways.

That’s basically how I think about Megatron and Optimus, actually.

Megatron has failed so many times I question why anyone would follow him
unless they were processor-impaired. “Triple Takeover” shows that
processor-impairment is entirely possible, with Blitzwing needing Coach to
tell him what to do.

And Optimus must be deliberately not stopping Megatron. Probably because
there are so few Transformers left, and the only way to stop him is to kill
Megatron.

Either that or it’s a sexual thing. Megatron has a humiliation fetish, and
Optimus is happy to oblige.

On Friday, August 6, 2021 at 5:36:56 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> That’s basically how I think about Megatron and Optimus, actually..

Well, in some ways it's largely true of every kids' show. There are good guys and bad guys locked into a perpetual stalemate. It makes sense when you're a kid because you accept it and don't really question it. Then you grow up and apply adult sensibilities to children's entertainment. "Why doesn't He-Man just take that sword and chop off Skeletor's head? How come Dr. Claw doesn't murder Inspector Gadget? Why doesn't Gargamel just stomp the shit out of the Smurfs?"

Occasionally the writers of the shows themselves, who are also adults, take a step back and look at the performances of their characters. "Wait a minute, how come Cobra Commander is constantly failing? How come Shredder has never managed to beat the Ninja Turtles?" Then they take that real-life question and apply an in-universe answer; i.e., the villains must just be laughably incompetent. And then you develop a sort of meta-story where even characters within the show (Destro, Dr. Mindbender, Krang, etc.) notice that the main bad guys are really bad at actually being bad guys.

There are degrees of aptitude and ineptitude, of course. The only long-term solution is to occasionally give the villain the upper hand and let him actually win. Gargamel did manage to demolish the Smurf village once or twice. Shredder destroyed the Channel 6 Building at one point (a main fixture of the Ninja Turtles cartoon since the first episode). In some ways it makes them more dangerous, but it also makes you wonder why it took them so long, and requires so many tries, before making some kind of achievement like that.

I guess the best solution would be to deconstruct the entire storytelling system and simply don't allow the good guys win every episode. Have them overwhelmed and defeated sometimes and force them to withdraw. Teach kids that there isn't always justice in the world, and that good things don't automatically happen to good people. It's a life lesson, and arguably one that needs to be taught. But I don't know that it would make very good television entertainment.

Zob (armchair realist-at-large)