I'm really impressed by the poetry that this guy makes, here in WTC 2 especially

https://open.spotify.com/album/71sRsV19MqrSFPJUJR4Yfe

in fact at the moment it's by far my favourite modern piano WTC 2.

But not just there, also in the Diabelli Variations

https://open.spotify.com/album/0EnR2ZXkUCA1DyNwN9068y

I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 4:31:44 PM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
> I'm really impressed by the poetry that this guy makes, here in WTC 2 especially
>
> https://open.spotify.com/album/71sRsV19MqrSFPJUJR4Yfe
>
> in fact at the moment it's by far my favourite modern piano WTC 2.
>
> But not just there, also in the Diabelli Variations
>
> https://open.spotify.com/album/0EnR2ZXkUCA1DyNwN9068y
>
> I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.

I can do better than "poetic" Well balanced, the balance between expressive and intellectual. That's what makes him a great pianist!

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 8:35:38 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
>
> Well balanced, the balance between expressive and
> intellectual. That's what makes him a great pianist!

Nope. "Balance" is in the ears of the listener. Every
person's ears are wired differently from others'.

"Intellectual" is between the ears of the listener.
That space may be filled differently in different
skulls. In some cases it may even be left empty.

"Intellectual" belongs to literature and philosophy,
not to PERFORMING ARTS! This forum is about
PERFORMING ARTS, not about literature or
philosophy! Throw out the "intellectual" !!!

dk

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 8:35:38 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
>
> That's what makes him a great pianist!

Your notions of "greatness" and "pianism"
are the pettiest petit bourgeois I've ever
encountered! How did you manage to
collect so much dust between your
ears? You really need better dust
filters in your ears!

dk

In article <53b1261c-366c-4609-8f2d-9f17f8bf4a27n@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie.stone01@gmail.com> wrote:
>I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of
>his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.

He made first recordings of Catalog d'oiseaux & some other late
works by Messiaen, so I certainly appreciated them/him at the time.
Haven't heard much since, although this isn't the first rave here
from you....

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 6:40:53 PM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <53b1261c-366c-4609...@googlegroups.com>,
> Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of
> >his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.
> He made first recordings of Catalog d'oiseaux & some other late
> works by Messiaen, so I certainly appreciated them/him at the time.
> Haven't heard much since, although this isn't the first rave here
> from you....

Yes indeed, and the fact he is not better remembered
should be a pretty clear hint as to why he is not better
remembered -- pardon the circular logic which I think
is quite appropriate when talking about birds! ;-)

This is the one and only Catalogue d'Oiseaux that is
approved by the Audubon Society:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kbfAKpFFZwq3MVtA5Iaby0sYdwIwoOLRM

https://www.amazon.com/Catalogue-doiseaux-Fauvette-jardins-2003-07-01/dp/B00Y3YZK9U

dk

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 3:17:48 AM UTC+2, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> "Intellectual" belongs to literature and philosophy,
> not to PERFORMING ARTS! This forum is about
> PERFORMING ARTS, not about literature or
> philosophy! Throw out the "intellectual" !!!
>
> dk

Wrong.
This forum is about Dan Koren and the empty space between his ears.
All other content is to be shot down.

My recollection is that he edited the volume, "A Messiaen Companion" or some title like that. Never got around to reading it, although I probably should, since I love most of OM's work.

I have to admit I prefer Aimard to Hill in the Catalog; it seems more musical. It would be good to do a head-to-head, however, because one could be swayed simply by recording quality in repertoire like this.

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 6:40:53 PM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <53b1261c-366c-4609...@googlegroups.com>,
> Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of
> >his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.
> He made first recordings of Catalog d'oiseaux & some other late
> works by Messiaen, so I certainly appreciated them/him at the time.
> Haven't heard much since, although this isn't the first rave here
> from you....

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 4:57:05 AM UTC+1, Peter wrote:
> My recollection is that he edited the volume, "A Messiaen Companion" or some title like that. Never got around to reading it, although I probably should, since I love most of OM's work.
>
> I have to admit I prefer Aimard to Hill in the Catalog; it seems more musical. It would be good to do a head-to-head, however, because one could be swayed simply by recording quality in repertoire like this.
> On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 6:40:53 PM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > In article <53b1261c-366c-4609...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of
> > >his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.
> > He made first recordings of Catalog d'oiseaux & some other late
> > works by Messiaen, so I certainly appreciated them/him at the time.
> > Haven't heard much since, although this isn't the first rave here
> > from you....

Maybe one day I’ll come to appreciate the oiseaux, but so far it has eluded me - and not for want of trying.

There’s a lot of Bach by Hill which I haven’t heard, the French suites and Goldberg Variations. What surprised me so much was how agreeable his Diabelli Variations are. I know the music on record pretty well, I mean, I’ve spent time listening to what people have made of it. Hill brings something interesting to the party for me.

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:05:30 PM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
>
> What surprised me so much was how agreeable his Diabelli
> Variations are. I know the music on record pretty well, I mean,
> I’ve spent time listening to what people have made of it. Hill
> brings something interesting to the party for me.

But it is no party at all. The Diabellicals are disagreeable by
design. They should smack on in the face until one's jaws
disconnect from one's skull. If you don't experience it then
it is not a good performance. Listen to this:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nXyWTaIzLvQ_DEwx6md6sNfDAHDq-BMnk

Then pick up your jaw, clean it, sterilize it, and pack it
carefully. Then send it to the committee as proof you
actually listened to it.

dk

On Tuesday, 4 October 2022 at 13:00:12 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 6:40:53 PM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > In article <53b1261c-366c-4609...googlegroups.com>,
> > Mandryka <howie....gmail.com> wrote:
> > >I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of
> > >his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.
> > He made first recordings of Catalog d'oiseaux & some other late
> > works by Messiaen, so I certainly appreciated them/him at the time.
> > Haven't heard much since, although this isn't the first rave here
> > from you....
> Yes indeed, and the fact he is not better remembered
> should be a pretty clear hint as to why he is not better
> remembered -- pardon the circular logic which I think
> is quite appropriate when talking about birds! ;-)
>
> This is the one and only Catalogue d'Oiseaux that is
> approved by the Audubon Society:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kbfAKpFFZwq3MVtA5Iaby0sYdwIwoOLRM
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Catalogue-doiseaux-Fauvette-jardins-2003-07-01/dp/B00Y3YZK9U
>
> dk

Have you heard Aimard in these pieces?

Ray Hall, Taree

In article <4e90167c-fa91-4daf-87a5-4e5e17eb8aaan@googlegroups.com>,
Peter <dormanp@gmail.com> wrote:
>I have to admit I prefer Aimard to Hill in the Catalog; it seems
>more musical. It would be good to do a head-to-head, however,
>because one could be swayed simply by recording quality in repertoire
>like this.

Oh, I think the Aimard set is a great performance (& a great
recording). Hill was the first to do it, decades ago... head-to-head
really isn't fair.

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:34:12 PM UTC-7, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, 4 October 2022 at 13:00:12 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 6:40:53 PM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > > In article <53b1261c-366c-4609...googlegroups.com>,
> > > Mandryka <howie....gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of
> > > >his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.
> > > He made first recordings of Catalog d'oiseaux & some other late
> > > works by Messiaen, so I certainly appreciated them/him at the time.
> > > Haven't heard much since, although this isn't the first rave here
> > > from you....
> > Yes indeed, and the fact he is not better remembered
> > should be a pretty clear hint as to why he is not better
> > remembered -- pardon the circular logic which I think
> > is quite appropriate when talking about birds! ;-)
> >
> > This is the one and only Catalogue d'Oiseaux that is
> > approved by the Audubon Society:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kbfAKpFFZwq3MVtA5Iaby0sYdwIwoOLRM
> > https://www.amazon.com/Catalogue-doiseaux-Fauvette-jardins-2003-07-01/dp/B00Y3YZK9U
>
> Have you heard Aimard in these pieces?

Of course I have. I did not like him. I also
did not like him in anything else I heard
him play. Too fussy, too intellectual, and
too sophisticated. For me, Ugorsky nails
this works, as he does almost everything
else I heard him play.

Herman, please take notice I recommend
someone who isn't Asian and who does
not even have enough hair to notice.

dk

I just noticed that Hill has another Beethoven recording, four handers with Ben Frith. You’d have to like listening to Beethoven’s piano music to like this I think. There’s here’s one thing there which caught my attention - op 134 (Grosse Fugue transcription) which sounds really colourful actually on first listen - I don’t think there’s a better one on record.

Re the oiseaux, I’m surprised that Hill recorded it before Loriod. I think there are two Loriod recordings - if I’m right she must have liked it.

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 1:41:32 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
>
> I think there are two Loriod recordings -
> if I’m right she must have liked it.

She didn't have a choice. She was
Messiaen's wife. Maybe the first
recording wasn't good enough
and she was spanked.

dk

On 10/3/22 8:38 PM, Herman wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 3:17:48 AM UTC+2, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Intellectual" belongs to literature and philosophy,
>> not to PERFORMING ARTS! This forum is about
>> PERFORMING ARTS, not about literature or
>> philosophy! Throw out the "intellectual" !!!
>>
>> dk
>
> Wrong.
> This forum is about Dan Koren and the empty space between his ears.
> All other content is to be shot down.

Mr. Koren's comments could indeed lead one to that conclusion. It would
be better if he could make his frequently perceptive comments without
having to insult others. Too much to ask, I suppose.

Bob Harper

Well I listened to a couple of a Hill’s French Suites today. Lovely restrained delicate performances, room sized - nothing grandiose. Much more expressive than most modern piano players with no intrusive inorganic rubato.

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 10:57:29 AM UTC-7, Bob Harper wrote:
>
> Mr. Koren's comments could indeed lead one to
> that conclusion. It would be better if he could
> make his frequently perceptive comments without
> having to insult others. Too much to ask, I suppose.

I am very much surprised, deeply touched and very
flattered by someone prepending "Mr." to my name.
This does not happen often, and whenever it does
it usually happens in a government office. I do not
like titles of any kind, they are oh so bourgeois.

Since today is Yom Kippur, I offer my sincerest
appologies to anyone in this ng who ever felt
insulted by my opinions. Make a note of it, as
it only happens once in a lifetime!

dk

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 5. Oktober 2022 um 12:59:07 UTC+2:
> On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 10:57:29 AM UTC-7, Bob Harper wrote:
> >
> > Mr. Koren's comments could indeed lead one to
> > that conclusion. It would be better if he could
> > make his frequently perceptive comments without
> > having to insult others. Too much to ask, I suppose.
> I am very much surprised, deeply touched and very
> flattered by someone prepending "Mr." to my name.
> This does not happen often, and whenever it does
> it usually happens in a government office. I do not
> like titles of any kind, they are oh so bourgeois.
>

You know, every now and then I visit this ng and I just want to say, I felt deeply touched seeing you mentioning my name occasionally - it seems you have not forgotten about me ;D

> Since today is Yom Kippur, I offer my sincerest
> appologies to anyone in this ng who ever felt
> insulted by my opinions. Make a note of it, as
> it only happens once in a lifetime!
>
> dk

I have not felt insulted by your opinions, rather frustrated by your idiocy.

Anyway: G'mar chatima tovah, my dear friend ;D

Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 5. Oktober 2022 um 13:36:34 UTC+2:
> dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 5. Oktober 2022 um 12:59:07 UTC+2:
> > On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 10:57:29 AM UTC-7, Bob Harper wrote:
> > >
> > > Mr. Koren's comments could indeed lead one to
> > > that conclusion. It would be better if he could
> > > make his frequently perceptive comments without
> > > having to insult others. Too much to ask, I suppose.
> > I am very much surprised, deeply touched and very
> > flattered by someone prepending "Mr." to my name.
> > This does not happen often, and whenever it does
> > it usually happens in a government office. I do not
> > like titles of any kind, they are oh so bourgeois.
> >
> You know, every now and then I visit this ng and I just want to say, I felt deeply touched seeing you mentioning my name occasionally - it seems you have not forgotten about me ;D
> > Since today is Yom Kippur, I offer my sincerest
> > appologies to anyone in this ng who ever felt
> > insulted by my opinions. Make a note of it, as
> > it only happens once in a lifetime!
> >
> > dk
> I have not felt insulted by your opinions, rather frustrated by your idiocy.
>
> Anyway: G'mar chatima tovah, my dear friend ;D

mr clawren ;D

On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 6:59:07 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 10:57:29 AM UTC-7, Bob Harper wrote:
> >
> > Mr. Koren's comments could indeed lead one to
> > that conclusion. It would be better if he could
> > make his frequently perceptive comments without
> > having to insult others. Too much to ask, I suppose.
> I am very much surprised, deeply touched and very
> flattered by someone prepending "Mr." to my name.
> This does not happen often, and whenever it does
> it usually happens in a government office. I do not
> like titles of any kind, they are oh so bourgeois.
>
> Since today is Yom Kippur, I offer my sincerest
> appologies to anyone in this ng who ever felt
> insulted by my opinions. Make a note of it, as
> it only happens once in a lifetime!
>
> dk

You are forgiven but you will eventually have to contend with the ghosts of the many non-Asian and non-Russian pianists who you have insulted over the years!

By the way, Happy Durga Puja to our Hindu contributors.

On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 5:06:48 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 6:59:07 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 10:57:29 AM UTC-7, Bob Harper wrote:
> > >
> > > Mr. Koren's comments could indeed lead one to
> > > that conclusion. It would be better if he could
> > > make his frequently perceptive comments without
> > > having to insult others. Too much to ask, I suppose.
> > I am very much surprised, deeply touched and very
> > flattered by someone prepending "Mr." to my name.
> > This does not happen often, and whenever it does
> > it usually happens in a government office. I do not
> > like titles of any kind, they are oh so bourgeois.
> >
> > Since today is Yom Kippur, I offer my sincerest
> > appologies to anyone in this ng who ever felt
> > insulted by my opinions. Make a note of it, as
> > it only happens once in a lifetime!
>
> You are forgiven but you will eventually have to
> contend with the ghosts of the many non-Asian
> and non-Russian pianists who you have insulted
> over the years!

My apologies are only to this ng's members, not to
artists on stage or on media, who are by definition
(or were) open to criticism by performing for the
public.

I only criticized non-pianist pianists, whether ghosts
or otherwise. Arrau does not get a free pass, even on
Yom Kippur! ;-)

dk

Op woensdag 5 oktober 2022 om 16:35:15 UTC+2 schreef dan....@gmail.com:

> > > Since today is Yom Kippur, I offer my sincerest
> > > appologies to anyone in this ng who ever felt
> > > insulted by my opinions. Make a note of it, as
> > > it only happens once in a lifetime!

If only God were as forgiving as we are ...

Henk

On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 7:47:56 AM UTC-7, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Op woensdag 5 oktober 2022 om 16:35:15 UTC+2 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
> > > > Since today is Yom Kippur, I offer my sincerest
> > > > appologies to anyone in this ng who ever felt
> > > > insulted by my opinions. Make a note of it, as
> > > > it only happens once in a lifetime!
>
> If only God were as forgiving as we are ...

God will never forgive Arrau, Kempff and
Backhaus.

dk

Dan Koren <dan.koren@gmail.com> writes:

>On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:05:30 PM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
>>
>> What surprised me so much was how agreeable his Diabelli
>> Variations are. I know the music on record pretty well, I mean,
>> I’ve spent time listening to what people have made of it. Hill
>> brings something interesting to the party for me.
>
>But it is no party at all. The Diabellicals are disagreeable by
>design. They should smack on in the face until one's jaws
>disconnect from one's skull. If you don't experience it then
>it is not a good performance. Listen to this:
>
>https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nXyWTaIzLvQ_DEwx6md6sNfDAHDq-BMnk
>
>Then pick up your jaw, clean it, sterilize it, and pack it
>carefully. Then send it to the committee as proof you
>actually listened to it.

Indeed. Ugorski’s performance is the one heard in our house.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
https://babelcarp.org