Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?

Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:18:07 PM UTC-8, Invocation wrote:
> Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
Thanks for confirming. The later material that I've listened to so far sounds fine.

On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:04 -0800, Invocation wrote:

> Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
>
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?

Is the ringing sound from Noise Reduction?

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 6:35:31 PM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:18:07 PM UTC-8, Invocation wrote:
> > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> Thanks for confirming. The later material that I've listened to so far sounds fine.

Do you remember any specific tracks, pieces obviously afflicted? The box has not been issued yet in the U.S. If it becomes suddenly unavailable for awhile, we will know what happened. The Amazon reviewer cites discs 1, 2 and 6. The first two discs include the mostly acoustical Homochord recordings which APR issued years ago in first-rate transfers.

DH

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 4:46:08 PM UTC-8, drh8h wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 6:35:31 PM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:18:07 PM UTC-8, Invocation wrote:
> > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > Thanks for confirming. The later material that I've listened to so far sounds fine.
> Do you remember any specific tracks, pieces obviously afflicted? The box has not been issued yet in the U.S. If it becomes suddenly unavailable for awhile, we will know what happened. The Amazon reviewer cites discs 1, 2 and 6. The first two discs include the mostly acoustical Homochord recordings which APR issued years ago in first-rate transfers.
>
> DH
I first became aware of it when listening to Disc 4, track 9 (Mozart, from 1936).

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 6:47:55 PM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 4:46:08 PM UTC-8, drh8h wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 6:35:31 PM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:18:07 PM UTC-8, Invocation wrote:
> > > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > > Thanks for confirming. The later material that I've listened to so far sounds fine.
> > Do you remember any specific tracks, pieces obviously afflicted? The box has not been issued yet in the U.S. If it becomes suddenly unavailable for awhile, we will know what happened. The Amazon reviewer cites discs 1, 2 and 6. The first two discs include the mostly acoustical Homochord recordings which APR issued years ago in first-rate transfers.
> >
> > DH
> I first became aware of it when listening to Disc 4, track 9 (Mozart, from 1936).

Who did the transfers on this set?

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 10:50:31 AM UTC-5, George wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 6:47:55 PM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 4:46:08 PM UTC-8, drh8h wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 6:35:31 PM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:18:07 PM UTC-8, Invocation wrote:
> > > > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > > > Thanks for confirming. The later material that I've listened to so far sounds fine.
> > > Do you remember any specific tracks, pieces obviously afflicted? The box has not been issued yet in the U.S. If it becomes suddenly unavailable for awhile, we will know what happened. The Amazon reviewer cites discs 1, 2 and 6. The first two discs include the mostly acoustical Homochord recordings which APR issued years ago in first-rate transfers.
> > >
> > > DH
> > I first became aware of it when listening to Disc 4, track 9 (Mozart, from 1936).
> Who did the transfers on this set?

Art et Son Studio.

The ringing sound is caused by using poor quality 78s discs.

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:30:53 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:04 -0800, Invocation wrote:
>
> > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> >
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> Is the ringing sound from Noise Reduction?

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:43:46 AM UTC-5, drh8h wrote:
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 10:50:31 AM UTC-5, George wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 6:47:55 PM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 4:46:08 PM UTC-8, drh8h wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 6:35:31 PM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:18:07 PM UTC-8, Invocation wrote:
> > > > > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > > > > Thanks for confirming. The later material that I've listened to so far sounds fine.
> > > > Do you remember any specific tracks, pieces obviously afflicted? The box has not been issued yet in the U.S. If it becomes suddenly unavailable for awhile, we will know what happened. The Amazon reviewer cites discs 1, 2 and 6. The first two discs include the mostly acoustical Homochord recordings which APR issued years ago in first-rate transfers.
> > > >
> > > > DH
> > > I first became aware of it when listening to Disc 4, track 9 (Mozart, from 1936).
> > Who did the transfers on this set?
> Art et Son Studio.

Thanks, that is good news.

On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 12:48:03 -0800, Invocation wrote:

> The ringing sound is caused by using poor quality 78s discs.

I don't know what the listeners are saying by "ringing" sound.
Are they just complaining about surface noise? But they say
it is a processing sound and 78 surface noise by itself doesn't
sound like ringing to me.

This amazon review doesn't say enough, I can't tell what is
being talked about, why is the Liszt Concerto unacceptable,
Presto saying it is from 1936, not from the early 1920's:

This is an early response based on sampling discs 1, 2, & 6.
Unfortunately there seems to be a fault in the production of
these discs. I'm well aware that these are very old recordings
and are bound to sound poor in comparison to Gieseking's later
recordings, but the issue I'm having both on my computer and on
my hi fi system is a digital ringing at roughly the freqency area
around and above piano middle C. I have made digital transfers of
old material myself and recall this issues as arising from some
lack of synchronisation in the DAC. Unfortunately, I don't have
the knowledge to diagnose the fault precisely. It is, however, a
fault. I've checked other historical recordings on my systems and
my ears, just to be certain that I can isolate it. There is
definitely an issue with this Warner edition. What should I do?
Will Warner recall the discs and replace the faulty ones? Since
I've sampled three discs so far and found the same fault on each
one, I'm not optimistic about the rest.

UPDATE. I started to listen to disc 3, which has the Liszt First
Piano Concerto. The sound of this is simply unacceptable for an
issue by a major company. There is considerable distortion and
that same digital ringing I noted on other discs. All of this
indicates an unbelievably sloppy job by whoever was employed to
do the transfers and a lack of checking further up the chain. I'm
surprised, because other Warner boxes, e.g. the Barbirolli, have
been excellent. I'm returning the set to Amazon and hope that
Warner will do the decent thing and bring all the discs in the
Gieseking set up to their usual high standard.

>
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:30:53 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:04 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > >
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > Is the ringing sound from Noise Reduction?

It really doesn't sound like a problem with the source material to me - unless the source material happens to be a low resolution digital transfer ;) To me it seems if something happened during the CD mastering phase. I can't believe that a sound engineer would approve a recording sounding this way.

On 12/5/2022 4:58 PM, Stefan Huber wrote:
> It really doesn't sound like a problem with the source material to me - unless the source material happens to be a low resolution digital transfer ;) To me it seems if something happened during >the CD mastering phase. I can't believe that a sound engineer would approve a recording sounding this way.

Has anybody tried to contact Warner?

On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:56:43 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 12:48:03 -0800, Invocation wrote:
>
> > The ringing sound is caused by using poor quality 78s discs.
> I don't know what the listeners are saying by "ringing" sound.
> Are they just complaining about surface noise? But they say
> it is a processing sound and 78 surface noise by itself doesn't
> sound like ringing to me.
>
> This amazon review doesn't say enough, I can't tell what is
> being talked about, why is the Liszt Concerto unacceptable,
> Presto saying it is from 1936, not from the early 1920's:
>
> This is an early response based on sampling discs 1, 2, & 6.
> Unfortunately there seems to be a fault in the production of
> these discs. I'm well aware that these are very old recordings
> and are bound to sound poor in comparison to Gieseking's later
> recordings, but the issue I'm having both on my computer and on
> my hi fi system is a digital ringing at roughly the freqency area
> around and above piano middle C. I have made digital transfers of
> old material myself and recall this issues as arising from some
> lack of synchronisation in the DAC. Unfortunately, I don't have
> the knowledge to diagnose the fault precisely. It is, however, a
> fault. I've checked other historical recordings on my systems and
> my ears, just to be certain that I can isolate it. There is
> definitely an issue with this Warner edition. What should I do?
> Will Warner recall the discs and replace the faulty ones? Since
> I've sampled three discs so far and found the same fault on each
> one, I'm not optimistic about the rest.
>
> UPDATE. I started to listen to disc 3, which has the Liszt First
> Piano Concerto. The sound of this is simply unacceptable for an
> issue by a major company. There is considerable distortion and
> that same digital ringing I noted on other discs. All of this
> indicates an unbelievably sloppy job by whoever was employed to
> do the transfers and a lack of checking further up the chain. I'm
> surprised, because other Warner boxes, e.g. the Barbirolli, have
> been excellent. I'm returning the set to Amazon and hope that
> Warner will do the decent thing and bring all the discs in the
> Gieseking set up to their usual high standard.
> >
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:30:53 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:04 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > >
> > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > > Is the ringing sound from Noise Reduction?

I just, finally, received this box yesterday, so haven't listened to much, but sampled some tracks and went through disc 1. Notably, some of the Homocords on that earliest disc are the Seth Winner transfers from the previous outstanding APR issue. I am not sure why they didn't use all of Seth's work.. There is not problem with any of "his" tracks. Gieseking completists need to get the APR because it includes the Brunswick recordings. The Mozart "Turkish" excerpt on disc 6 is similarly afflicted with the ringing sound. I have not the knowledge to know what the problem is, but I am guessing it occurred late in the mastering phase. As for the Liszt Concerto, what is most noticeable to me is the extremely worn condition of the first movement. I have wondered if Art & Son is limited mostly to whatever Warner has in their archives. Independents like Seth Winner, who had a Gieseking series on Pearl, and Ward Marston, who made a number of Gieseking transfers for Naxos, have access to a network of collectors and institutions and can track down the best copies from anywhere in the world. I mention this because it has happened before. In the otherwise outstanding Furtwängler complete set, the discs used by Art & Son for the Brahms 1 were in dire condition in complete contrast to the rest of the set.

Dennis H

On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 8:40:53 AM UTC-5, drh8h wrote:
> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:56:43 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 12:48:03 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> >
> > > The ringing sound is caused by using poor quality 78s discs.
> > I don't know what the listeners are saying by "ringing" sound.
> > Are they just complaining about surface noise? But they say
> > it is a processing sound and 78 surface noise by itself doesn't
> > sound like ringing to me.
> >
> > This amazon review doesn't say enough, I can't tell what is
> > being talked about, why is the Liszt Concerto unacceptable,
> > Presto saying it is from 1936, not from the early 1920's:
> >
> > This is an early response based on sampling discs 1, 2, & 6.
> > Unfortunately there seems to be a fault in the production of
> > these discs. I'm well aware that these are very old recordings
> > and are bound to sound poor in comparison to Gieseking's later
> > recordings, but the issue I'm having both on my computer and on
> > my hi fi system is a digital ringing at roughly the freqency area
> > around and above piano middle C. I have made digital transfers of
> > old material myself and recall this issues as arising from some
> > lack of synchronisation in the DAC. Unfortunately, I don't have
> > the knowledge to diagnose the fault precisely. It is, however, a
> > fault. I've checked other historical recordings on my systems and
> > my ears, just to be certain that I can isolate it. There is
> > definitely an issue with this Warner edition. What should I do?
> > Will Warner recall the discs and replace the faulty ones? Since
> > I've sampled three discs so far and found the same fault on each
> > one, I'm not optimistic about the rest.
> >
> > UPDATE. I started to listen to disc 3, which has the Liszt First
> > Piano Concerto. The sound of this is simply unacceptable for an
> > issue by a major company. There is considerable distortion and
> > that same digital ringing I noted on other discs. All of this
> > indicates an unbelievably sloppy job by whoever was employed to
> > do the transfers and a lack of checking further up the chain. I'm
> > surprised, because other Warner boxes, e.g. the Barbirolli, have
> > been excellent. I'm returning the set to Amazon and hope that
> > Warner will do the decent thing and bring all the discs in the
> > Gieseking set up to their usual high standard.
> > >
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:30:53 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:04 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > > > Is the ringing sound from Noise Reduction?
> I just, finally, received this box yesterday, so haven't listened to much, but sampled some tracks and went through disc 1. Notably, some of the Homocords on that earliest disc are the Seth Winner transfers from the previous outstanding APR issue. I am not sure why they didn't use all of Seth's work. There is not problem with any of "his" tracks. Gieseking completists need to get the APR because it includes the Brunswick recordings. The Mozart "Turkish" excerpt on disc 6 is similarly afflicted with the ringing sound. I have not the knowledge to know what the problem is, but I am guessing it occurred late in the mastering phase. As for the Liszt Concerto, what is most noticeable to me is the extremely worn condition of the first movement. I have wondered if Art & Son is limited mostly to whatever Warner has in their archives. Independents like Seth Winner, who had a Gieseking series on Pearl, and Ward Marston, who made a number of Gieseking transfers for Naxos, have access to a network of collectors and institutions and can track down the best copies from anywhere in the world. I mention this because it has happened before. In the otherwise outstanding Furtwängler complete set, the discs used by Art & Son for the Brahms 1 were in dire condition in complete contrast to the rest of the set.
>
> Dennis H

Thanks for clarifying the above, Dennis. Could you please confirm that the Warner box does not contain his full first recoriding (1938) of both books of Debussy preludes? The amazon image shows that only Book one (minus one prelude) is included. Maybe the booklet explains why?

Thanks,
George

On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 2:14:46 PM UTC-5, George wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 8:40:53 AM UTC-5, drh8h wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:56:43 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 12:48:03 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > >
> > > > The ringing sound is caused by using poor quality 78s discs.
> > > I don't know what the listeners are saying by "ringing" sound.
> > > Are they just complaining about surface noise? But they say
> > > it is a processing sound and 78 surface noise by itself doesn't
> > > sound like ringing to me.
> > >
> > > This amazon review doesn't say enough, I can't tell what is
> > > being talked about, why is the Liszt Concerto unacceptable,
> > > Presto saying it is from 1936, not from the early 1920's:
> > >
> > > This is an early response based on sampling discs 1, 2, & 6.
> > > Unfortunately there seems to be a fault in the production of
> > > these discs. I'm well aware that these are very old recordings
> > > and are bound to sound poor in comparison to Gieseking's later
> > > recordings, but the issue I'm having both on my computer and on
> > > my hi fi system is a digital ringing at roughly the freqency area
> > > around and above piano middle C. I have made digital transfers of
> > > old material myself and recall this issues as arising from some
> > > lack of synchronisation in the DAC. Unfortunately, I don't have
> > > the knowledge to diagnose the fault precisely. It is, however, a
> > > fault. I've checked other historical recordings on my systems and
> > > my ears, just to be certain that I can isolate it. There is
> > > definitely an issue with this Warner edition. What should I do?
> > > Will Warner recall the discs and replace the faulty ones? Since
> > > I've sampled three discs so far and found the same fault on each
> > > one, I'm not optimistic about the rest.
> > >
> > > UPDATE. I started to listen to disc 3, which has the Liszt First
> > > Piano Concerto. The sound of this is simply unacceptable for an
> > > issue by a major company. There is considerable distortion and
> > > that same digital ringing I noted on other discs. All of this
> > > indicates an unbelievably sloppy job by whoever was employed to
> > > do the transfers and a lack of checking further up the chain. I'm
> > > surprised, because other Warner boxes, e.g. the Barbirolli, have
> > > been excellent. I'm returning the set to Amazon and hope that
> > > Warner will do the decent thing and bring all the discs in the
> > > Gieseking set up to their usual high standard.
> > > >
> > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:30:53 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:04 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > > > > Is the ringing sound from Noise Reduction?
> > I just, finally, received this box yesterday, so haven't listened to much, but sampled some tracks and went through disc 1. Notably, some of the Homocords on that earliest disc are the Seth Winner transfers from the previous outstanding APR issue. I am not sure why they didn't use all of Seth's work. There is not problem with any of "his" tracks. Gieseking completists need to get the APR because it includes the Brunswick recordings. The Mozart "Turkish" excerpt on disc 6 is similarly afflicted with the ringing sound.. I have not the knowledge to know what the problem is, but I am guessing it occurred late in the mastering phase. As for the Liszt Concerto, what is most noticeable to me is the extremely worn condition of the first movement.. I have wondered if Art & Son is limited mostly to whatever Warner has in their archives. Independents like Seth Winner, who had a Gieseking series on Pearl, and Ward Marston, who made a number of Gieseking transfers for Naxos, have access to a network of collectors and institutions and can track down the best copies from anywhere in the world. I mention this because it has happened before. In the otherwise outstanding Furtwängler complete set, the discs used by Art & Son for the Brahms 1 were in dire condition in complete contrast to the rest of the set.
> >
> > Dennis H
> Thanks for clarifying the above, Dennis. Could you please confirm that the Warner box does not contain his full first recoriding (1938) of both books of Debussy preludes? The amazon image shows that only Book one (minus one prelude) is included. Maybe the booklet explains why?
>
> Thanks,
> George

The first book is complete: the "Sunken Cathedral" was recorded earlier. Warner presents the records more or less chronologically. If one bought the "set" in the U. S., there was an empty pocket for that piece, which was sold separately. This is mentioned in one of B. H. Haggin's record books. The second book was recorded by Columbia in NYC and is not in this set, as mentioned in the booklet. The easiest way to obtain it right now is to purchase the 2-CD APR set of WG's prewar Debussy recordings. I did not mention the APR with the Homocords also includes some unpublished sides, Bach C# Maj P&F from Bk 1 of WTC and a couple of Scarlatti sonatas, along with other unpublished recordings. Also it has the two Brunswick sides, which I suppose belong to Universal. These omissions are mentioned in the current Gramophone review by Jed Distler. I have not tried to do the math, but all of the Columbia/Sony records could be pressed onto one or at most two, cds.

On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 3:04:33 PM UTC-5, drh8h wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 2:14:46 PM UTC-5, George wrote:
> > On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 8:40:53 AM UTC-5, drh8h wrote:
> > > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:56:43 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 12:48:03 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The ringing sound is caused by using poor quality 78s discs.
> > > > I don't know what the listeners are saying by "ringing" sound.
> > > > Are they just complaining about surface noise? But they say
> > > > it is a processing sound and 78 surface noise by itself doesn't
> > > > sound like ringing to me.
> > > >
> > > > This amazon review doesn't say enough, I can't tell what is
> > > > being talked about, why is the Liszt Concerto unacceptable,
> > > > Presto saying it is from 1936, not from the early 1920's:
> > > >
> > > > This is an early response based on sampling discs 1, 2, & 6.
> > > > Unfortunately there seems to be a fault in the production of
> > > > these discs. I'm well aware that these are very old recordings
> > > > and are bound to sound poor in comparison to Gieseking's later
> > > > recordings, but the issue I'm having both on my computer and on
> > > > my hi fi system is a digital ringing at roughly the freqency area
> > > > around and above piano middle C. I have made digital transfers of
> > > > old material myself and recall this issues as arising from some
> > > > lack of synchronisation in the DAC. Unfortunately, I don't have
> > > > the knowledge to diagnose the fault precisely. It is, however, a
> > > > fault. I've checked other historical recordings on my systems and
> > > > my ears, just to be certain that I can isolate it. There is
> > > > definitely an issue with this Warner edition. What should I do?
> > > > Will Warner recall the discs and replace the faulty ones? Since
> > > > I've sampled three discs so far and found the same fault on each
> > > > one, I'm not optimistic about the rest.
> > > >
> > > > UPDATE. I started to listen to disc 3, which has the Liszt First
> > > > Piano Concerto. The sound of this is simply unacceptable for an
> > > > issue by a major company. There is considerable distortion and
> > > > that same digital ringing I noted on other discs. All of this
> > > > indicates an unbelievably sloppy job by whoever was employed to
> > > > do the transfers and a lack of checking further up the chain. I'm
> > > > surprised, because other Warner boxes, e.g. the Barbirolli, have
> > > > been excellent. I'm returning the set to Amazon and hope that
> > > > Warner will do the decent thing and bring all the discs in the
> > > > Gieseking set up to their usual high standard.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:30:53 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:04 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > > > > > Is the ringing sound from Noise Reduction?
> > > I just, finally, received this box yesterday, so haven't listened to much, but sampled some tracks and went through disc 1. Notably, some of the Homocords on that earliest disc are the Seth Winner transfers from the previous outstanding APR issue. I am not sure why they didn't use all of Seth's work. There is not problem with any of "his" tracks. Gieseking completists need to get the APR because it includes the Brunswick recordings. The Mozart "Turkish" excerpt on disc 6 is similarly afflicted with the ringing sound. I have not the knowledge to know what the problem is, but I am guessing it occurred late in the mastering phase. As for the Liszt Concerto, what is most noticeable to me is the extremely worn condition of the first movement. I have wondered if Art & Son is limited mostly to whatever Warner has in their archives. Independents like Seth Winner, who had a Gieseking series on Pearl, and Ward Marston, who made a number of Gieseking transfers for Naxos, have access to a network of collectors and institutions and can track down the best copies from anywhere in the world. I mention this because it has happened before. In the otherwise outstanding Furtwängler complete set, the discs used by Art & Son for the Brahms 1 were in dire condition in complete contrast to the rest of the set.
> > >
> > > Dennis H
> > Thanks for clarifying the above, Dennis. Could you please confirm that the Warner box does not contain his full first recoriding (1938) of both books of Debussy preludes? The amazon image shows that only Book one (minus one prelude) is included. Maybe the booklet explains why?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > George
> The first book is complete: the "Sunken Cathedral" was recorded earlier. Warner presents the records more or less chronologically. If one bought the "set" in the U. S., there was an empty pocket for that piece, which was sold separately. This is mentioned in one of B. H. Haggin's record books. The second book was recorded by Columbia in NYC and is not in this set, as mentioned in the booklet. The easiest way to obtain it right now is to purchase the 2-CD APR set of WG's prewar Debussy recordings. I did not mention the APR with the Homocords also includes some unpublished sides, Bach C# Maj P&F from Bk 1 of WTC and a couple of Scarlatti sonatas, along with other unpublished recordings. Also it has the two Brunswick sides, which I suppose belong to Universal. These omissions are mentioned in the current Gramophone review by Jed Distler. I have not tried to do the math, but all of the Columbia/Sony records could be pressed onto one or at most two, cds.

Thanks again, Dennis!

On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 5:40:53 AM UTC-8, drh8h wrote:
> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:56:43 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 12:48:03 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> >
> > > The ringing sound is caused by using poor quality 78s discs.
> > I don't know what the listeners are saying by "ringing" sound.
> > Are they just complaining about surface noise? But they say
> > it is a processing sound and 78 surface noise by itself doesn't
> > sound like ringing to me.
> >
> > This amazon review doesn't say enough, I can't tell what is
> > being talked about, why is the Liszt Concerto unacceptable,
> > Presto saying it is from 1936, not from the early 1920's:
> >
> > This is an early response based on sampling discs 1, 2, & 6.
> > Unfortunately there seems to be a fault in the production of
> > these discs. I'm well aware that these are very old recordings
> > and are bound to sound poor in comparison to Gieseking's later
> > recordings, but the issue I'm having both on my computer and on
> > my hi fi system is a digital ringing at roughly the freqency area
> > around and above piano middle C. I have made digital transfers of
> > old material myself and recall this issues as arising from some
> > lack of synchronisation in the DAC. Unfortunately, I don't have
> > the knowledge to diagnose the fault precisely. It is, however, a
> > fault. I've checked other historical recordings on my systems and
> > my ears, just to be certain that I can isolate it. There is
> > definitely an issue with this Warner edition. What should I do?
> > Will Warner recall the discs and replace the faulty ones? Since
> > I've sampled three discs so far and found the same fault on each
> > one, I'm not optimistic about the rest.
> >
> > UPDATE. I started to listen to disc 3, which has the Liszt First
> > Piano Concerto. The sound of this is simply unacceptable for an
> > issue by a major company. There is considerable distortion and
> > that same digital ringing I noted on other discs. All of this
> > indicates an unbelievably sloppy job by whoever was employed to
> > do the transfers and a lack of checking further up the chain. I'm
> > surprised, because other Warner boxes, e.g. the Barbirolli, have
> > been excellent. I'm returning the set to Amazon and hope that
> > Warner will do the decent thing and bring all the discs in the
> > Gieseking set up to their usual high standard.
> > >
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:30:53 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:04 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > > > Is the ringing sound from Noise Reduction?
> I just, finally, received this box yesterday, so haven't listened to much, but sampled some tracks and went through disc 1. Notably, some of the Homocords on that earliest disc are the Seth Winner transfers from the previous outstanding APR issue. I am not sure why they didn't use all of Seth's work. There is not problem with any of "his" tracks. Gieseking completists need to get the APR because it includes the Brunswick recordings. The Mozart "Turkish" excerpt on disc 6 is similarly afflicted with the ringing sound. I have not the knowledge to know what the problem is, but I am guessing it occurred late in the mastering phase. As for the Liszt Concerto, what is most noticeable to me is the extremely worn condition of the first movement. I have wondered if Art & Son is limited mostly to whatever Warner has in their archives. Independents like Seth Winner, who had a Gieseking series on Pearl, and Ward Marston, who made a number of Gieseking transfers for Naxos, have access to a network of collectors and institutions and can track down the best copies from anywhere in the world. I mention this because it has happened before. In the otherwise outstanding Furtwängler complete set, the discs used by Art & Son for the Brahms 1 were in dire condition in complete contrast to the rest of the set.
>
> Dennis H

Thank you, Dennis.

On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 05:40:51 -0800, drh8h wrote:

> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:56:43 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 12:48:03 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> >
> > > The ringing sound is caused by using poor quality 78s discs.
> > I don't know what the listeners are saying by "ringing" sound.
> > Are they just complaining about surface noise? But they say
> > it is a processing sound and 78 surface noise by itself doesn't
> > sound like ringing to me.
> >
> > This amazon review doesn't say enough, I can't tell what is
> > being talked about, why is the Liszt Concerto unacceptable,
> > Presto saying it is from 1936, not from the early 1920's:
> >
> > This is an early response based on sampling discs 1, 2, & 6.
> > Unfortunately there seems to be a fault in the production of
> > these discs. I'm well aware that these are very old recordings
> > and are bound to sound poor in comparison to Gieseking's later
> > recordings, but the issue I'm having both on my computer and on
> > my hi fi system is a digital ringing at roughly the freqency area
> > around and above piano middle C. I have made digital transfers of
> > old material myself and recall this issues as arising from some
> > lack of synchronisation in the DAC. Unfortunately, I don't have
> > the knowledge to diagnose the fault precisely. It is, however, a
> > fault. I've checked other historical recordings on my systems and
> > my ears, just to be certain that I can isolate it. There is
> > definitely an issue with this Warner edition. What should I do?
> > Will Warner recall the discs and replace the faulty ones? Since
> > I've sampled three discs so far and found the same fault on each
> > one, I'm not optimistic about the rest.
> >
> > UPDATE. I started to listen to disc 3, which has the Liszt First
> > Piano Concerto. The sound of this is simply unacceptable for an
> > issue by a major company. There is considerable distortion and
> > that same digital ringing I noted on other discs. All of this
> > indicates an unbelievably sloppy job by whoever was employed to
> > do the transfers and a lack of checking further up the chain. I'm
> > surprised, because other Warner boxes, e.g. the Barbirolli, have
> > been excellent. I'm returning the set to Amazon and hope that
> > Warner will do the decent thing and bring all the discs in the
> > Gieseking set up to their usual high standard.
> > >
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:30:53 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:04 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > > > Is the ringing sound from Noise Reduction?
>
> I just, finally, received this box yesterday, so haven't listened to much, but sampled some tracks and went through disc 1. Notably, some of the Homocords on that earliest disc are the Seth Winner transfers from the previous outstanding APR issue. I am not sure why they didn't use all of Seth's work. There is not problem with any of "his" tracks. Gieseking completists need to get the APR because it includes the Brunswick recordings. The Mozart "Turkish" excerpt on disc 6 is similarly afflicted with the ringing sound. I have not the knowledge to know what the problem is, but I am guessing it occurred late in the mastering phase. As for the Liszt Concerto, what is most noticeable to me is the extremely worn condition of the first movement. I have wondered if Art & Son is limited mostly to whatever Warner has in their archives. Independents like Seth Winner, who had a Gieseking series on Pearl, and Ward Marston, who made a number of Gieseking transfers for Naxos, have access to a
> network of collectors and institutions and can track down the best copies from anywhere in the world. I mention this because it has happened before. In the otherwise outstanding Furtwängler complete set, the discs used by Art & Son for the Brahms 1 were in dire condition in complete contrast to the rest of the set.

Can you describe the "ringing"? Is it surface noise, is it
noise reduction? Noise reduction can have a whiny sound.

I far prefer surface noise to noise reduction artifacts.

On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 4:04:35 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 05:40:51 -0800, drh8h wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:56:43 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 12:48:03 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > >
> > > > The ringing sound is caused by using poor quality 78s discs.
> > > I don't know what the listeners are saying by "ringing" sound.
> > > Are they just complaining about surface noise? But they say
> > > it is a processing sound and 78 surface noise by itself doesn't
> > > sound like ringing to me.
> > >
> > > This amazon review doesn't say enough, I can't tell what is
> > > being talked about, why is the Liszt Concerto unacceptable,
> > > Presto saying it is from 1936, not from the early 1920's:
> > >
> > > This is an early response based on sampling discs 1, 2, & 6.
> > > Unfortunately there seems to be a fault in the production of
> > > these discs. I'm well aware that these are very old recordings
> > > and are bound to sound poor in comparison to Gieseking's later
> > > recordings, but the issue I'm having both on my computer and on
> > > my hi fi system is a digital ringing at roughly the freqency area
> > > around and above piano middle C. I have made digital transfers of
> > > old material myself and recall this issues as arising from some
> > > lack of synchronisation in the DAC. Unfortunately, I don't have
> > > the knowledge to diagnose the fault precisely. It is, however, a
> > > fault. I've checked other historical recordings on my systems and
> > > my ears, just to be certain that I can isolate it. There is
> > > definitely an issue with this Warner edition. What should I do?
> > > Will Warner recall the discs and replace the faulty ones? Since
> > > I've sampled three discs so far and found the same fault on each
> > > one, I'm not optimistic about the rest.
> > >
> > > UPDATE. I started to listen to disc 3, which has the Liszt First
> > > Piano Concerto. The sound of this is simply unacceptable for an
> > > issue by a major company. There is considerable distortion and
> > > that same digital ringing I noted on other discs. All of this
> > > indicates an unbelievably sloppy job by whoever was employed to
> > > do the transfers and a lack of checking further up the chain. I'm
> > > surprised, because other Warner boxes, e.g. the Barbirolli, have
> > > been excellent. I'm returning the set to Amazon and hope that
> > > Warner will do the decent thing and bring all the discs in the
> > > Gieseking set up to their usual high standard.
> > > >
> > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:30:53 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:04 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > > > > Is the ringing sound from Noise Reduction?
> >
> > I just, finally, received this box yesterday, so haven't listened to much, but sampled some tracks and went through disc 1. Notably, some of the Homocords on that earliest disc are the Seth Winner transfers from the previous outstanding APR issue. I am not sure why they didn't use all of Seth's work. There is not problem with any of "his" tracks. Gieseking completists need to get the APR because it includes the Brunswick recordings. The Mozart "Turkish" excerpt on disc 6 is similarly afflicted with the ringing sound.. I have not the knowledge to know what the problem is, but I am guessing it occurred late in the mastering phase. As for the Liszt Concerto, what is most noticeable to me is the extremely worn condition of the first movement.. I have wondered if Art & Son is limited mostly to whatever Warner has in their archives. Independents like Seth Winner, who had a Gieseking series on Pearl, and Ward Marston, who made a number of Gieseking transfers for Naxos, have access to a
> > network of collectors and institutions and can track down the best copies from anywhere in the world. I mention this because it has happened before. In the otherwise outstanding Furtwängler complete set, the discs used by Art & Son for the Brahms 1 were in dire condition in complete contrast to the rest of the set.
> Can you describe the "ringing"? Is it surface noise, is it
> noise reduction? Noise reduction can have a whiny sound.
>
> I far prefer surface noise to noise reduction artifacts.

To me it sounds like a metallic resonance. You might think your tweeter was damaged or a piece of metal vibrating. Such noises are not uncommon on distorting or worn piano recordings, but this is subtly different, higher pitched and rather disembodied from the musical sound. I am still working my way through the discs, so can't say how much is afflicted. Never throughout an entire disc, and only certain short pieces. So far, the concertos, except the worn out parts of the Liszt, and sonatas are fine. The "Emperor" presumably from master pressings, is outstandingly good. The Turkish excerpt I mentioned is really disc 5. Can't see! Items with flute, also on APR, are affected, mostly in the flute passages. Probably less than an hour's worth notably afflicted so far, but I have a way to go through the 78s. I am listening on Amphion speakers and they have a very strong treble "presence." Other models or headphones or higher listening levels than my lease permit might yield different results, maybe less so with a treble rolloff. Surface noise is strong on some tracks. Art & Son usually don't overdo the noise reduction. We need a technical expert to weigh in.

DH

On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 17:32:59 -0800, drh8h wrote:

> On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 4:04:35 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 05:40:51 -0800, drh8h wrote:
> >
> > > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:56:43 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 12:48:03 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The ringing sound is caused by using poor quality 78s discs.
> > > > I don't know what the listeners are saying by "ringing" sound.
> > > > Are they just complaining about surface noise? But they say
> > > > it is a processing sound and 78 surface noise by itself doesn't
> > > > sound like ringing to me.
> > > >
> > > > This amazon review doesn't say enough, I can't tell what is
> > > > being talked about, why is the Liszt Concerto unacceptable,
> > > > Presto saying it is from 1936, not from the early 1920's:
> > > >
> > > > This is an early response based on sampling discs 1, 2, & 6.
> > > > Unfortunately there seems to be a fault in the production of
> > > > these discs. I'm well aware that these are very old recordings
> > > > and are bound to sound poor in comparison to Gieseking's later
> > > > recordings, but the issue I'm having both on my computer and on
> > > > my hi fi system is a digital ringing at roughly the freqency area
> > > > around and above piano middle C. I have made digital transfers of
> > > > old material myself and recall this issues as arising from some
> > > > lack of synchronisation in the DAC. Unfortunately, I don't have
> > > > the knowledge to diagnose the fault precisely. It is, however, a
> > > > fault. I've checked other historical recordings on my systems and
> > > > my ears, just to be certain that I can isolate it. There is
> > > > definitely an issue with this Warner edition. What should I do?
> > > > Will Warner recall the discs and replace the faulty ones? Since
> > > > I've sampled three discs so far and found the same fault on each
> > > > one, I'm not optimistic about the rest.
> > > >
> > > > UPDATE. I started to listen to disc 3, which has the Liszt First
> > > > Piano Concerto. The sound of this is simply unacceptable for an
> > > > issue by a major company. There is considerable distortion and
> > > > that same digital ringing I noted on other discs. All of this
> > > > indicates an unbelievably sloppy job by whoever was employed to
> > > > do the transfers and a lack of checking further up the chain. I'm
> > > > surprised, because other Warner boxes, e.g. the Barbirolli, have
> > > > been excellent. I'm returning the set to Amazon and hope that
> > > > Warner will do the decent thing and bring all the discs in the
> > > > Gieseking set up to their usual high standard.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:30:53 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:04 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > > > > > Is the ringing sound from Noise Reduction?
> > >
> > > I just, finally, received this box yesterday, so haven't listened to much, but sampled some tracks and went through disc 1. Notably, some of the Homocords on that earliest disc are the Seth Winner transfers from the previous outstanding APR issue. I am not sure why they didn't use all of Seth's work. There is not problem with any of "his" tracks. Gieseking completists need to get the APR because it includes the Brunswick recordings. The Mozart "Turkish" excerpt on disc 6 is similarly afflicted with the ringing sound. I have not the knowledge to know what the problem is, but I am guessing it occurred late in the mastering phase. As for the Liszt Concerto, what is most noticeable to me is the extremely worn condition of the first movement. I have wondered if Art & Son is limited mostly to whatever Warner has in their archives. Independents like Seth Winner, who had a Gieseking series on Pearl, and Ward Marston, who made a number of Gieseking transfers for Naxos, have access to
a > > > network of collectors and institutions and can track down the best copies from anywhere in the world. I mention this because it has happened before. In the otherwise outstanding Furtwängler complete set, the discs used by Art & Son for the Brahms 1 were in dire condition in complete contrast to the rest of the set.
> > Can you describe the "ringing"? Is it surface noise, is it
> > noise reduction? Noise reduction can have a whiny sound.
> >
> > I far prefer surface noise to noise reduction artifacts.
>
> To me it sounds like a metallic resonance. You might think your tweeter was damaged or a piece of metal vibrating. Such noises are not uncommon on distorting or worn piano recordings, but this is subtly different, higher pitched and rather disembodied from the musical sound. I am still working my way through the discs, so can't say how much is afflicted. Never throughout an entire disc, and only certain short pieces. So far, the concertos, except the worn out parts of the Liszt, and sonatas are fine. The "Emperor" presumably from master pressings, is outstandingly good. The Turkish excerpt I mentioned is really disc 5. Can't see! Items with flute, also on APR, are affected, mostly in the flute passages. Probably less than an hour's worth notably afflicted so far, but I have a way to go through the 78s. I am listening on Amphion speakers and they have a very strong treble "presence." Other models or headphones or higher listening levels than my lease permit might yield different
> results, maybe less so with a treble rolloff. Surface noise is strong on some tracks.

Anyway, I bought the set. I predict I'll describe it as "that does
sound like ringing but it's hard to describe".

> Art & Son usually don't overdo the noise reduction.

You can't go by names: Is Sony's Meyer or b-sharp good?
They did a terrible job on Richter's 1960 Columbia live
recordings. Is Ward Marston good? Sony placed his name
on the terrible engineering of the Complete Rachmaninoff set.
Is Keith Hardwick good? EMI placed his name on the 1990
Schnabel set. All three sets and engineering were severely
muffled by noise reduction.

> We need a technical expert to weigh in.

We don't need the type of experts who always apologizes for
intrusive engineering. We need the types who analyzes and
explains.

(Sorry for the TD derangement syndrome)

On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 3:00:42 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 17:32:59 -0800, drh8h wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 4:04:35 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 05:40:51 -0800, drh8h wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:56:43 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 12:48:03 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > The ringing sound is caused by using poor quality 78s discs.
> > > > > I don't know what the listeners are saying by "ringing" sound.
> > > > > Are they just complaining about surface noise? But they say
> > > > > it is a processing sound and 78 surface noise by itself doesn't
> > > > > sound like ringing to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > This amazon review doesn't say enough, I can't tell what is
> > > > > being talked about, why is the Liszt Concerto unacceptable,
> > > > > Presto saying it is from 1936, not from the early 1920's:
> > > > >
> > > > > This is an early response based on sampling discs 1, 2, & 6.
> > > > > Unfortunately there seems to be a fault in the production of
> > > > > these discs. I'm well aware that these are very old recordings
> > > > > and are bound to sound poor in comparison to Gieseking's later
> > > > > recordings, but the issue I'm having both on my computer and on
> > > > > my hi fi system is a digital ringing at roughly the freqency area
> > > > > around and above piano middle C. I have made digital transfers of
> > > > > old material myself and recall this issues as arising from some
> > > > > lack of synchronisation in the DAC. Unfortunately, I don't have
> > > > > the knowledge to diagnose the fault precisely. It is, however, a
> > > > > fault. I've checked other historical recordings on my systems and
> > > > > my ears, just to be certain that I can isolate it. There is
> > > > > definitely an issue with this Warner edition. What should I do?
> > > > > Will Warner recall the discs and replace the faulty ones? Since
> > > > > I've sampled three discs so far and found the same fault on each
> > > > > one, I'm not optimistic about the rest.
> > > > >
> > > > > UPDATE. I started to listen to disc 3, which has the Liszt First
> > > > > Piano Concerto. The sound of this is simply unacceptable for an
> > > > > issue by a major company. There is considerable distortion and
> > > > > that same digital ringing I noted on other discs. All of this
> > > > > indicates an unbelievably sloppy job by whoever was employed to
> > > > > do the transfers and a lack of checking further up the chain. I'm
> > > > > surprised, because other Warner boxes, e.g. the Barbirolli, have
> > > > > been excellent. I'm returning the set to Amazon and hope that
> > > > > Warner will do the decent thing and bring all the discs in the
> > > > > Gieseking set up to their usual high standard.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:30:53 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:04 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > > > > > > Is the ringing sound from Noise Reduction?
> > > >
> > > > I just, finally, received this box yesterday, so haven't listened to much, but sampled some tracks and went through disc 1. Notably, some of the Homocords on that earliest disc are the Seth Winner transfers from the previous outstanding APR issue. I am not sure why they didn't use all of Seth's work. There is not problem with any of "his" tracks. Gieseking completists need to get the APR because it includes the Brunswick recordings. The Mozart "Turkish" excerpt on disc 6 is similarly afflicted with the ringing sound. I have not the knowledge to know what the problem is, but I am guessing it occurred late in the mastering phase. As for the Liszt Concerto, what is most noticeable to me is the extremely worn condition of the first movement. I have wondered if Art & Son is limited mostly to whatever Warner has in their archives. Independents like Seth Winner, who had a Gieseking series on Pearl, and Ward Marston, who made a number of Gieseking transfers for Naxos, have access to
> a
> > > > network of collectors and institutions and can track down the best copies from anywhere in the world. I mention this because it has happened before. In the otherwise outstanding Furtwängler complete set, the discs used by Art & Son for the Brahms 1 were in dire condition in complete contrast to the rest of the set.
> > > Can you describe the "ringing"? Is it surface noise, is it
> > > noise reduction? Noise reduction can have a whiny sound.
> > >
> > > I far prefer surface noise to noise reduction artifacts.
> >
> > To me it sounds like a metallic resonance. You might think your tweeter was damaged or a piece of metal vibrating. Such noises are not uncommon on distorting or worn piano recordings, but this is subtly different, higher pitched and rather disembodied from the musical sound. I am still working my way through the discs, so can't say how much is afflicted. Never throughout an entire disc, and only certain short pieces. So far, the concertos, except the worn out parts of the Liszt, and sonatas are fine. The "Emperor" presumably from master pressings, is outstandingly good. The Turkish excerpt I mentioned is really disc 5. Can't see! Items with flute, also on APR, are affected, mostly in the flute passages. Probably less than an hour's worth notably afflicted so far, but I have a way to go through the 78s. I am listening on Amphion speakers and they have a very strong treble "presence." Other models or headphones or higher listening levels than my lease permit might yield different
> > results, maybe less so with a treble rolloff. Surface noise is strong on some tracks.
> Anyway, I bought the set. I predict I'll describe it as "that does
> sound like ringing but it's hard to describe".
> > Art & Son usually don't overdo the noise reduction.
> You can't go by names: Is Sony's Meyer or b-sharp good?
> They did a terrible job on Richter's 1960 Columbia live
> recordings. Is Ward Marston good? Sony placed his name
> on the terrible engineering of the Complete Rachmaninoff set.
> Is Keith Hardwick good? EMI placed his name on the 1990
> Schnabel set. All three sets and engineering were severely
> muffled by noise reduction.
> > We need a technical expert to weigh in.
> We don't need the type of experts who always apologizes for
> intrusive engineering. We need the types who analyzes and
> explains.
>
> (Sorry for the TD derangement syndrome)

Lordy, Ward's Rachmaninoff set for RCA was thirty years ago. Reports are RCA messed with it. If you haven't heard his other work, including an ongoing Rach (one cd to go) for Naxos, you are missing a lot of the best. The Sony crowd is mostly good. They have had a few misses but acceptable, and sometimes better, esp. with lacquer-based Columbias. Keith Hardwick died years, maybe a couple decades, ago. That Schnabel set is even older than the RCA. I don't think Keith had anything to do with EMI's noise reduction during the cd era. When he retired and started working for Testament and Pearl, the surface noise reassuringly returned. As for experts, I surely am not one, and if you gathered them all in a room, I doubt there would much agreement even about the weather.

DH

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 12:00:33 -0800, Pluted Pup wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 17:32:59 -0800, drh8h wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 4:04:35 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 05:40:51 -0800, drh8h wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:56:43 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 12:48:03 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > The ringing sound is caused by using poor quality 78s discs.
> > > > > I don't know what the listeners are saying by "ringing" sound.
> > > > > Are they just complaining about surface noise? But they say
> > > > > it is a processing sound and 78 surface noise by itself doesn't
> > > > > sound like ringing to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > This amazon review doesn't say enough, I can't tell what is
> > > > > being talked about, why is the Liszt Concerto unacceptable,
> > > > > Presto saying it is from 1936, not from the early 1920's:
> > > > >
> > > > > This is an early response based on sampling discs 1, 2, & 6.
> > > > > Unfortunately there seems to be a fault in the production of
> > > > > these discs. I'm well aware that these are very old recordings
> > > > > and are bound to sound poor in comparison to Gieseking's later
> > > > > recordings, but the issue I'm having both on my computer and on
> > > > > my hi fi system is a digital ringing at roughly the freqency area
> > > > > around and above piano middle C. I have made digital transfers of
> > > > > old material myself and recall this issues as arising from some
> > > > > lack of synchronisation in the DAC. Unfortunately, I don't have
> > > > > the knowledge to diagnose the fault precisely. It is, however, a
> > > > > fault. I've checked other historical recordings on my systems and
> > > > > my ears, just to be certain that I can isolate it. There is
> > > > > definitely an issue with this Warner edition. What should I do?
> > > > > Will Warner recall the discs and replace the faulty ones? Since
> > > > > I've sampled three discs so far and found the same fault on each
> > > > > one, I'm not optimistic about the rest.
> > > > >
> > > > > UPDATE. I started to listen to disc 3, which has the Liszt First
> > > > > Piano Concerto. The sound of this is simply unacceptable for an
> > > > > issue by a major company. There is considerable distortion and
> > > > > that same digital ringing I noted on other discs. All of this
> > > > > indicates an unbelievably sloppy job by whoever was employed to
> > > > > do the transfers and a lack of checking further up the chain. I'm
> > > > > surprised, because other Warner boxes, e.g. the Barbirolli, have
> > > > > been excellent. I'm returning the set to Amazon and hope that
> > > > > Warner will do the decent thing and bring all the discs in the
> > > > > Gieseking set up to their usual high standard.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:30:53 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:04 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > > > > > > Is the ringing sound from Noise Reduction?
> > > >
> > > > I just, finally, received this box yesterday, so haven't listened to much, but sampled some tracks and went through disc 1. Notably, some of the Homocords on that earliest disc are the Seth Winner transfers from the previous outstanding APR issue. I am not sure why they didn't use all of Seth's work. There is not problem with any of "his" tracks. Gieseking completists need to get the APR because it includes the Brunswick recordings. The Mozart "Turkish" excerpt on disc 6 is similarly afflicted with the ringing sound. I have not the knowledge to know what the problem is, but I am guessing it occurred late in the mastering phase. As for the Liszt Concerto, what is most noticeable to me is the extremely worn condition of the first movement. I have wondered if Art & Son is limited mostly to whatever Warner has in their archives. Independents like Seth Winner, who had a Gieseking series on Pearl, and Ward Marston, who made a number of Gieseking transfers for Naxos, have access
to
> a
> > > > network of collectors and institutions and can track down the best copies from anywhere in the world. I mention this because it has happened before. In the otherwise outstanding Furtwängler complete set, the discs used by Art & Son for the Brahms 1 were in dire condition in complete contrast to the rest of the set.
> > > Can you describe the "ringing"? Is it surface noise, is it
> > > noise reduction? Noise reduction can have a whiny sound.
> > >
> > > I far prefer surface noise to noise reduction artifacts.
> >
> > To me it sounds like a metallic resonance. You might think your tweeter was damaged or a piece of metal vibrating. Such noises are not uncommon on distorting or worn piano recordings, but this is subtly different, higher pitched and rather disembodied from the musical sound. I am still working my way through the discs, so can't say how much is afflicted. Never throughout an entire disc, and only certain short pieces. So far, the concertos, except the worn out parts of the Liszt, and sonatas are fine. The "Emperor" presumably from master pressings, is outstandingly good. The Turkish excerpt I mentioned is really disc 5. Can't see! Items with flute, also on APR, are affected, mostly in the flute passages. Probably less than an hour's worth notably afflicted so far, but I have a way to go through the 78s. I am listening on Amphion speakers and they have a very strong treble "presence." Other models or headphones or higher listening levels than my lease permit might yield different
> > results, maybe less so with a treble rolloff. Surface noise is strong on some tracks.
>
> Anyway, I bought the set. I predict I'll describe it as "that does
> sound like ringing but it's hard to describe".

I listened to the first 3 CDs. It sounds like ringing on a few
tracks, it is not steady but only during loud notes. It's the
worst with the beginning of the second CD with the Grieg Lyric
pieces. With the ringing only on loud notes it resembles the
sound of players with lousy speakers that are worn out or
underpowered, like some boom boxes I've tried to use playing
piano music CDs.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 16:05:34 -0800, drh8h wrote:

> On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 3:00:42 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 17:32:59 -0800, drh8h wrote:
> >
> > > On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 4:04:35 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 05:40:51 -0800, drh8h wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:56:43 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 12:48:03 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The ringing sound is caused by using poor quality 78s discs.
> > > > > > I don't know what the listeners are saying by "ringing" sound.
> > > > > > Are they just complaining about surface noise? But they say
> > > > > > it is a processing sound and 78 surface noise by itself doesn't
> > > > > > sound like ringing to me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This amazon review doesn't say enough, I can't tell what is
> > > > > > being talked about, why is the Liszt Concerto unacceptable,
> > > > > > Presto saying it is from 1936, not from the early 1920's:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is an early response based on sampling discs 1, 2, & 6.
> > > > > > Unfortunately there seems to be a fault in the production of
> > > > > > these discs. I'm well aware that these are very old recordings
> > > > > > and are bound to sound poor in comparison to Gieseking's later
> > > > > > recordings, but the issue I'm having both on my computer and on
> > > > > > my hi fi system is a digital ringing at roughly the freqency area
> > > > > > around and above piano middle C. I have made digital transfers of
> > > > > > old material myself and recall this issues as arising from some
> > > > > > lack of synchronisation in the DAC. Unfortunately, I don't have
> > > > > > the knowledge to diagnose the fault precisely. It is, however, a
> > > > > > fault. I've checked other historical recordings on my systems and
> > > > > > my ears, just to be certain that I can isolate it. There is
> > > > > > definitely an issue with this Warner edition. What should I do?
> > > > > > Will Warner recall the discs and replace the faulty ones? Since
> > > > > > I've sampled three discs so far and found the same fault on each
> > > > > > one, I'm not optimistic about the rest.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > UPDATE. I started to listen to disc 3, which has the Liszt First
> > > > > > Piano Concerto. The sound of this is simply unacceptable for an
> > > > > > issue by a major company. There is considerable distortion and
> > > > > > that same digital ringing I noted on other discs. All of this
> > > > > > indicates an unbelievably sloppy job by whoever was employed to
> > > > > > do the transfers and a lack of checking further up the chain. I'm
> > > > > > surprised, because other Warner boxes, e.g. the Barbirolli, have
> > > > > > been excellent. I'm returning the set to Amazon and hope that
> > > > > > Warner will do the decent thing and bring all the discs in the
> > > > > > Gieseking set up to their usual high standard.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:30:53 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:04 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > > > > > > > Is the ringing sound from Noise Reduction?
> > > > >
> > > > > I just, finally, received this box yesterday, so haven't listened to much, but sampled some tracks and went through disc 1. Notably, some of the Homocords on that earliest disc are the Seth Winner transfers from the previous outstanding APR issue. I am not sure why they didn't use all of Seth's work. There is not problem with any of "his" tracks. Gieseking completists need to get the APR because it includes the Brunswick recordings. The Mozart "Turkish" excerpt on disc 6 is similarly afflicted with the ringing sound. I have not the knowledge to know what the problem is, but I am guessing it occurred late in the mastering phase. As for the Liszt Concerto, what is most noticeable to me is the extremely worn condition of the first movement. I have wondered if Art & Son is limited mostly to whatever Warner has in their archives. Independents like Seth Winner, who had a Gieseking series on Pearl, and Ward Marston, who made a number of Gieseking transfers for Naxos, have access
to
> > a
> > > > > network of collectors and institutions and can track down the best copies from anywhere in the world. I mention this because it has happened before. In the otherwise outstanding Furtwängler complete set, the discs used by Art & Son for the Brahms 1 were in dire condition in complete contrast to the rest of the set.
> > > > Can you describe the "ringing"? Is it surface noise, is it
> > > > noise reduction? Noise reduction can have a whiny sound.
> > > >
> > > > I far prefer surface noise to noise reduction artifacts.
> > >
> > > To me it sounds like a metallic resonance. You might think your tweeter was damaged or a piece of metal vibrating. Such noises are not uncommon on distorting or worn piano recordings, but this is subtly different, higher pitched and rather disembodied from the musical sound. I am still working my way through the discs, so can't say how much is afflicted. Never throughout an entire disc, and only certain short pieces. So far, the concertos, except the worn out parts of the Liszt, and sonatas are fine. The "Emperor" presumably from master pressings, is outstandingly good. The Turkish excerpt I mentioned is really disc 5. Can't see! Items with flute, also on APR, are affected, mostly in the flute passages. Probably less than an hour's worth notably afflicted so far, but I have a way to go through the 78s. I am listening on Amphion speakers and they have a very strong treble "presence." Other models or headphones or higher listening levels than my lease permit might yield
different
> > > results, maybe less so with a treble rolloff. Surface noise is strong on some tracks.
> > Anyway, I bought the set. I predict I'll describe it as "that does
> > sound like ringing but it's hard to describe".
> > > Art & Son usually don't overdo the noise reduction.
> > You can't go by names: Is Sony's Meyer or b-sharp good?
> > They did a terrible job on Richter's 1960 Columbia live
> > recordings. Is Ward Marston good? Sony placed his name
> > on the terrible engineering of the Complete Rachmaninoff set.
> > Is Keith Hardwick good? EMI placed his name on the 1990
> > Schnabel set. All three sets and engineering were severely
> > muffled by noise reduction.
> > > We need a technical expert to weigh in.
> > We don't need the type of experts who always apologizes for
> > intrusive engineering. We need the types who analyzes and
> > explains.
> >
> > (Sorry for the TD derangement syndrome)
>
> Lordy, Ward's Rachmaninoff set for RCA was thirty years ago.

30 years ago but remains the current version. It was reissued
in the early 2000's and removed information from the booklet,
not even including recording dates.

> Reports are RCA messed with it.

But they libeled Ward Marston by only listing him as
the engineer and not listing the mastering engineer who
did the severe noise reduction.

> If you haven't heard his other work, including an ongoing Rach (one cd to go) for Naxos, you are missing a lot of the best.

Are the Naxos discs Ward Marston's original masters before
RCA ruined them or are they a different master?

> The Sony crowd is mostly good. They have had a few misses but acceptable, and sometimes better, esp. with lacquer-based Columbias. Keith Hardwick died years, maybe a couple decades, ago. That Schnabel set is even older than the RCA. I don't think Keith had anything to do with EMI's noise reduction during the cd era. When he retired and started working for Testament and Pearl, the surface noise reassuringly returned.

On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 8:11:14 PM UTC-6, Pluted Pup wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 16:05:34 -0800, drh8h wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 3:00:42 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 17:32:59 -0800, drh8h wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 4:04:35 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 05:40:51 -0800, drh8h wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:56:43 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 12:48:03 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The ringing sound is caused by using poor quality 78s discs..
> > > > > > > I don't know what the listeners are saying by "ringing" sound..
> > > > > > > Are they just complaining about surface noise? But they say
> > > > > > > it is a processing sound and 78 surface noise by itself doesn't
> > > > > > > sound like ringing to me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This amazon review doesn't say enough, I can't tell what is
> > > > > > > being talked about, why is the Liszt Concerto unacceptable,
> > > > > > > Presto saying it is from 1936, not from the early 1920's:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is an early response based on sampling discs 1, 2, & 6.
> > > > > > > Unfortunately there seems to be a fault in the production of
> > > > > > > these discs. I'm well aware that these are very old recordings
> > > > > > > and are bound to sound poor in comparison to Gieseking's later
> > > > > > > recordings, but the issue I'm having both on my computer and on
> > > > > > > my hi fi system is a digital ringing at roughly the freqency area
> > > > > > > around and above piano middle C. I have made digital transfers of
> > > > > > > old material myself and recall this issues as arising from some
> > > > > > > lack of synchronisation in the DAC. Unfortunately, I don't have
> > > > > > > the knowledge to diagnose the fault precisely. It is, however, a
> > > > > > > fault. I've checked other historical recordings on my systems and
> > > > > > > my ears, just to be certain that I can isolate it. There is
> > > > > > > definitely an issue with this Warner edition. What should I do?
> > > > > > > Will Warner recall the discs and replace the faulty ones? Since
> > > > > > > I've sampled three discs so far and found the same fault on each
> > > > > > > one, I'm not optimistic about the rest.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > UPDATE. I started to listen to disc 3, which has the Liszt First
> > > > > > > Piano Concerto. The sound of this is simply unacceptable for an
> > > > > > > issue by a major company. There is considerable distortion and
> > > > > > > that same digital ringing I noted on other discs. All of this
> > > > > > > indicates an unbelievably sloppy job by whoever was employed to
> > > > > > > do the transfers and a lack of checking further up the chain. I'm
> > > > > > > surprised, because other Warner boxes, e.g. the Barbirolli, have
> > > > > > > been excellent. I'm returning the set to Amazon and hope that
> > > > > > > Warner will do the decent thing and bring all the discs in the
> > > > > > > Gieseking set up to their usual high standard.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:30:53 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:04 -0800, Invocation wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is pretty obvious. I am wondering if Warner will redo those problematic tracks.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:29:07 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Started sampling some of the discs in the new Gieseking boxed set on Warner, and on some of the 1930's tracks I'm wondering if there are issues with the remastering: an annoying ringing tone. There is a review on Amazon that describes this in more detail. Anyone else hearing things?
> > > > > > > > > Is the ringing sound from Noise Reduction?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I just, finally, received this box yesterday, so haven't listened to much, but sampled some tracks and went through disc 1. Notably, some of the Homocords on that earliest disc are the Seth Winner transfers from the previous outstanding APR issue. I am not sure why they didn't use all of Seth's work. There is not problem with any of "his" tracks. Gieseking completists need to get the APR because it includes the Brunswick recordings. The Mozart "Turkish" excerpt on disc 6 is similarly afflicted with the ringing sound. I have not the knowledge to know what the problem is, but I am guessing it occurred late in the mastering phase. As for the Liszt Concerto, what is most noticeable to me is the extremely worn condition of the first movement. I have wondered if Art & Son is limited mostly to whatever Warner has in their archives. Independents like Seth Winner, who had a Gieseking series on Pearl, and Ward Marston, who made a number of Gieseking transfers for Naxos, have access
> to
> > > a
> > > > > > network of collectors and institutions and can track down the best copies from anywhere in the world. I mention this because it has happened before. In the otherwise outstanding Furtwängler complete set, the discs used by Art & Son for the Brahms 1 were in dire condition in complete contrast to the rest of the set.
> > > > > Can you describe the "ringing"? Is it surface noise, is it
> > > > > noise reduction? Noise reduction can have a whiny sound.
> > > > >
> > > > > I far prefer surface noise to noise reduction artifacts.
> > > >
> > > > To me it sounds like a metallic resonance. You might think your tweeter was damaged or a piece of metal vibrating. Such noises are not uncommon on distorting or worn piano recordings, but this is subtly different, higher pitched and rather disembodied from the musical sound. I am still working my way through the discs, so can't say how much is afflicted. Never throughout an entire disc, and only certain short pieces. So far, the concertos, except the worn out parts of the Liszt, and sonatas are fine. The "Emperor" presumably from master pressings, is outstandingly good. The Turkish excerpt I mentioned is really disc 5. Can't see! Items with flute, also on APR, are affected, mostly in the flute passages. Probably less than an hour's worth notably afflicted so far, but I have a way to go through the 78s. I am listening on Amphion speakers and they have a very strong treble "presence." Other models or headphones or higher listening levels than my lease permit might yield
> different
> > > > results, maybe less so with a treble rolloff. Surface noise is strong on some tracks.
> > > Anyway, I bought the set. I predict I'll describe it as "that does
> > > sound like ringing but it's hard to describe".
> > > > Art & Son usually don't overdo the noise reduction.
> > > You can't go by names: Is Sony's Meyer or b-sharp good?
> > > They did a terrible job on Richter's 1960 Columbia live
> > > recordings. Is Ward Marston good? Sony placed his name
> > > on the terrible engineering of the Complete Rachmaninoff set.
> > > Is Keith Hardwick good? EMI placed his name on the 1990
> > > Schnabel set. All three sets and engineering were severely
> > > muffled by noise reduction.
> > > > We need a technical expert to weigh in.
> > > We don't need the type of experts who always apologizes for
> > > intrusive engineering. We need the types who analyzes and
> > > explains.
> > >
> > > (Sorry for the TD derangement syndrome)
> >
> > Lordy, Ward's Rachmaninoff set for RCA was thirty years ago.
> 30 years ago but remains the current version. It was reissued
> in the early 2000's and removed information from the booklet,
> not even including recording dates.
> > Reports are RCA messed with it.
> But they libeled Ward Marston by only listing him as
> the engineer and not listing the mastering engineer who
> did the severe noise reduction.
> > If you haven't heard his other work, including an ongoing Rach (one cd to go) for Naxos, you are missing a lot of the best.
> Are the Naxos discs Ward Marston's original masters before
> RCA ruined them or are they a different master?
> > The Sony crowd is mostly good. They have had a few misses but acceptable, and sometimes better, esp. with lacquer-based Columbias. Keith Hardwick died years, maybe a couple decades, ago. That Schnabel set is even older than the RCA. I don't think Keith had anything to do with EMI's noise reduction during the cd era. When he retired and started working for Testament and Pearl, the surface noise reassuringly returned.
> He was libeled by EMI, by only including his name as engineer
> and not the name of the mastering engineer who applied the
> "NoNoise/Cedar".
> > As for experts, I surely am not one, and if you gathered them all in a room, I doubt there would much agreement even about the weather.
> We need analysis and explanation from experts, the only
> disagreement would be how to use the resulting information.
> Mastering information is critical to the sound of a
> recording.