novaBBS - rec.music.classical.recordings - Re: The only real conductor in his generation!

The only real conductor in his generation!

<811875bc-420a-48d3-9b68-f75fd09b4e35n@googlegroups.com>

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=50205&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#50205

copy link Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings

X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:85:b0:4c6:d886:2681 with SMTP id n5-20020a056214008500b004c6d8862681mr3084669qvr.94.1672969437356;
Thu, 05 Jan 2023 17:43:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:3493:b0:672:2018:bb08 with SMTP id
c19-20020a056830349300b006722018bb08mr3583994otu.235.1672969436959; Thu, 05
Jan 2023 17:43:56 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2023 17:43:56 -0800 (PST)
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <811875bc-420a-48d3-9b68-f75fd09b4e35n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: The only real conductor in his generation!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2023 01:43:57 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lines: 5

by: Dan Koren - Fri, 6 Jan 2023 01:43 UTC

Re: The only real conductor in his generation!

<IN1uL.241727$vBI8.93043@fx15.iad>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=50251&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#50251

copy link Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings

Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx15.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.6.1
Subject: Re: The only real conductor in his generation!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
References: <811875bc-420a-48d3-9b68-f75fd09b4e35n@googlegroups.com>
Content-Language: en-US
From: bob.har...@comcast.net (Bob Harper)
In-Reply-To: <811875bc-420a-48d3-9b68-f75fd09b4e35n@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <IN1uL.241727$vBI8.93043@fx15.iad>
X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com
Organization: Forte - www.forteinc.com
X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly.
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2023 15:04:08 -0800
X-Received-Bytes: 1112

by: Bob Harper - Fri, 6 Jan 2023 23:04 UTC

On 1/5/23 5:43 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hGFUq0dihk
>
> dk
>
>
>
A great one, to be sure, but:

Walter
Furtwängler
Beecham
Stokowski
Monteux

to name but a few.

GBob Harper

Re: The only real conductor in his generation!

<4646207c-4049-45f7-b4c1-28be7a40434dn@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=50266&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#50266

copy link Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings

X-Received: by 2002:ac8:698a:0:b0:3a9:8df0:d02f with SMTP id o10-20020ac8698a000000b003a98df0d02fmr2464693qtq.258.1673114753570;
Sat, 07 Jan 2023 10:05:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a4a:33d8:0:b0:4b1:2b40:52a3 with SMTP id
q207-20020a4a33d8000000b004b12b4052a3mr2671578ooq.76.1673114753196; Sat, 07
Jan 2023 10:05:53 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2023 10:05:52 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <IN1uL.241727$vBI8.93043@fx15.iad>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <811875bc-420a-48d3-9b68-f75fd09b4e35n@googlegroups.com> <IN1uL.241727$vBI8.93043@fx15.iad>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <4646207c-4049-45f7-b4c1-28be7a40434dn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: The only real conductor in his generation!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2023 18:05:53 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 1754

by: Dan Koren - Sat, 7 Jan 2023 18:05 UTC

On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 3:04:13 PM UTC-8, Bob Harper wrote:
> On 1/5/23 5:43 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hGFUq0dihk
> >
> A great one, to be sure, but:
>
> Walter
> Furtwängler
> Beecham
> Stokowski
> Monteux
>
> to name but a few.
>

Paraphrasing Busoni, they could all
be mixed in a pot, and not produce
another Mengelberg. Walter in
particular was horrible, though
not quite as horrible as military
band leader Toscanini.

Re: The only real conductor in his generation!

<46f97c02-38bd-442d-81ad-222861d4d492n@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=50268&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#50268

copy link Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings

X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:37c4:b0:4c7:8cda:8300 with SMTP id nj4-20020a05621437c400b004c78cda8300mr2206101qvb.36.1673119468516;
Sat, 07 Jan 2023 11:24:28 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1097:b0:670:95a6:b3ff with SMTP id
y23-20020a056830109700b0067095a6b3ffmr3287509oto.251.1673119468256; Sat, 07
Jan 2023 11:24:28 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2023 11:24:28 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <4646207c-4049-45f7-b4c1-28be7a40434dn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2a00:23c8:28b:6801:b8be:c8f4:36b7:5ba;
posting-account=8bTzzAoAAAC1gnUKfRTQBi2I3-sblKzz
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2a00:23c8:28b:6801:b8be:c8f4:36b7:5ba
References: <811875bc-420a-48d3-9b68-f75fd09b4e35n@googlegroups.com>
<IN1uL.241727$vBI8.93043@fx15.iad> <4646207c-4049-45f7-b4c1-28be7a40434dn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <46f97c02-38bd-442d-81ad-222861d4d492n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: The only real conductor in his generation!
From: howie.st...@gmail.com (Mandryka)
Injection-Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2023 19:24:28 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2188

by: Mandryka - Sat, 7 Jan 2023 19:24 UTC

The last time I listened to Mengelberg is was a baroque church cantata, BWV 57, Selig ist der Mann, with Jo Vincent and a bass who I can't remember hearing before called Max Kloos - he would make a good Christ in the Matthew Passion I think. I have a copy of the excellent transfer from Hubert Wendel.. The sound is fine, though obviously there's some vinyl artefacts - surface noise, heartbeats etc. Predictably slow and "deeply felt", IMO it is a force of nature, totally disarming, and it highlights how important it is to have outstanding soloists in this cantata - which is basically a dialogue with soprano and bass about the soul. I challenge anyone not to wipe a tear in Jo Vincent's big slow song, and not to dance in Max Kloos's big fast song. Mengelberg, Vincent and Kloos can make it into music.

Hindsight is an exact science.

arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: The only real conductor in his generation!

Subject	Author
The only real conductor in his generation!	Dan Koren
Re: The only real conductor in his generation!	Bob Harper
Re: The only real conductor in his generation!	Dan Koren
Re: The only real conductor in his generation!	Mandryka