So this rumored test shot has been circulating for the past few days

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=444216663940044&set=a.266267198401659

I find it a little odd how the chest looks, the little nearly insignificant spoiler looks out of place. I'm still happy with my Xtransbots Toro, so I'm not foaming at the mouth for this, but the legs look good, the arms look good, but the head looks a little too large for the frame for toy scale and proportion, but I guess it's animation accurate.

On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 7:40:03 AM UTC-5, Irrellius Spamticon wrote:
> So this rumored test shot has been circulating for the past few days
>
> https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=444216663940044&set=a.266267198401659
>
> I find it a little odd how the chest looks, the little nearly insignificant spoiler looks out of place. I'm still happy with my Xtransbots Toro, so I'm not foaming at the mouth for this, but the legs look good, the arms look good, but the head looks a little too large for the frame for toy scale and proportion, but I guess it's animation accurate.

https://m.facbook.com/story.php?story_fbid=445087047186339&id=100050551416583&sfnsn=mo

More pictures, he's starting to look a bit rough compared to third party options, specially from the side. His backpack is smaller than Toro but he still doesn't look as clean.

On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 6:40:03 AM UTC-6, Ob1k...@att.net wrote:

> https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=444216663940044&set=a.266267198401659
>
> I find it a little odd how the chest looks, the little nearly insignificant spoiler looks out of place.

That's mistransformed. The spoiler was in the right spot when this toy first made its debut as a prototype some months back (in that weird green-and-clear color scheme).

Pretty much everybody in the fandom is complaining about how horrible it looks. I think it looks great. Either I'm far too forgiving and accepting of serious flaws (which honestly doesn't sound a lot like me), or other fans are way too persnickety about what they're expecting from the Masterpiece toy line.

I mean, if people don't want a toy that is a near-perfect representation of the animation model, what do they want?

Zob (confuzzled)

On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 8:50:35 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:

> I mean, if people don't want a toy that is a near-perfect representation of the animation model, what do they want?

Box art accuracy!

Some of the fans want cartoon accuracy. Some want toy accuracy. Some
want a mix of both.

It is literally impossible to please the entire fandom, because the
things that one faction finds exemplary are the exact things that the
other faction despises.

Me? I just think they're overpriced.

Brian.

On Saturday, November 6, 2021 at 6:06:13 PM UTC-6, No One In Particular wrote:

> Some of the fans want cartoon accuracy. Some want toy accuracy. Some
> want a mix of both.

I guess what we really need is a Ninja Turtles situation. They've got NECA doing action figures based on the classic cartoon, but then there's Super7 doing toys based on the old Playmates sculpts.

Right now, we've got a little bit of that with Super7 licensing the (rather awful) ReAction figures as well as the (much better, but much more expensive) Ultimates. But, it's not nearly as comprehensive right now as the Ninja Turtles stuff is shaping up to be.

Really, the comprehensive coverage for Transformers fans is neo-G1. We could conceivably get all four hundred and something legacy characters eventually. That's never going to happen for Masterpiece. That line will end long before we get to Octopunch and Backstreet and company. Masterpiece is for characters with a strong media presence who you actually remember.

But, it's much, much easier to sculpt a Turtles toy with a specific aesthetic and then throw in some articulation than it is to design a Transformers toy with a specific aesthetic and still have it actually be able to transform.

What grinds my gears is when there are so many people who are dismissive of toys like Masterpiece Cliffjumper who are calling it garbage. They say Takara's not even trying any longer. I really don't get this. If they don't care for the cartoon look, then say that. If they would rather have something that reminds them of the 1984 toy, then say THAT. That's a matter of opinion and I totally respect that. But don't say it's just a badly-designed toy. Don't say Takara botched it. That's just demonstrably incorrect.

Zob (*SHAKES FIST*)

Zobovor <zmfts@aol.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, November 6, 2021 at 6:06:13 PM UTC-6, No One In Particular wrote:
>
>> Some of the fans want cartoon accuracy. Some want toy accuracy. Some
>> want a mix of both.
>
> I guess what we really need is a Ninja Turtles situation. They've got
> NECA doing action figures based on the classic cartoon, but then there's
> Super7 doing toys based on the old Playmates sculpts.
>
> Right now, we've got a little bit of that with Super7 licensing the
> (rather awful) ReAction figures as well as the (much better, but much
> more expensive) Ultimates. But, it's not nearly as comprehensive right
> now as the Ninja Turtles stuff is shaping up to be.
>
> Really, the comprehensive coverage for Transformers fans is neo-G1. We
> could conceivably get all four hundred and something legacy characters
> eventually. That's never going to happen for Masterpiece. That line
> will end long before we get to Octopunch and Backstreet and company.
> Masterpiece is for characters with a strong media presence who you actually remember.
>
> But, it's much, much easier to sculpt a Turtles toy with a specific
> aesthetic and then throw in some articulation than it is to design a
> Transformers toy with a specific aesthetic and still have it actually be
> able to transform.
>
> What grinds my gears is when there are so many people who are dismissive
> of toys like Masterpiece Cliffjumper who are calling it garbage. They
> say Takara's not even trying any longer. I really don't get this. If
> they don't care for the cartoon look, then say that. If they would
> rather have something that reminds them of the 1984 toy, then say THAT.
> That's a matter of opinion and I totally respect that. But don't say
> it's just a badly-designed toy. Don't say Takara botched it. That's
> just demonstrably incorrect.

I honestly think the last few years of Masterpieces have been terrible
toys. Nifty puzzles, sure, but terrible toys. Toys are meant to be played
with, and these are meant to be displayed.

And some of them are apparently plagued by quality issues (Beast Megatron
and the most recent Starscream, I believe, plus I’ve seen complaints about
Wheeljacks wings breaking… some of this is people being too rough with them
and attempting to treat them like toys.) I’m perfectly willing to say that
requiring tolerances that cannot be accomplished, and strengths that cannot
be achieved, is fundamentally a design issue.

So, poorly designed, and not toys. So there.

If people like the newer ones, good for them. I’m not going to complain
much, I’m just not going to buy them. I like Bumblebee 1.0, I don’t need to
add 50 steps to make the end result look like a poorly animated cartoon
from a few angles. MP-10 is probably the best G1 Optimus toy ever, and
didn’t need to be replaced with something infinitely more complicated.

I do wish I had stopped buying them a bit before I did. They just take up
space, and I can’t imagine ever feeling love for Masterpiece Cheetor, while
Sunstreaker is only tolerable because the Earthrise toy is so bad (doesn’t
hold together without weird gaps in vehicle mode). I’ve never bothered
transforming Megatron because it just seems like a long pointless slog.

I might have just hit a point where I would prefer to have closet space and
no plastic bins in my living room rather than 10,000 transformers where
half just aren’t a lot of fun. I am eyeing The Ark reproachfully as I tap
this out — he could have been a great toy with just a bit more effort, but
instead he’s just big.

At the same time, sifting through 10,000 toys and decking which ones I
love, or are likely to love in the future (there was a time when I hated
the Armada toys, but then they became almost my favorites, and I could
shift my interests again) just seems daunting. Plus my back is weak and
doesn’t want to deal with all those plastic bins.

I guess I could just set the house on fire and be done with it…

On the other hand, I opened a bin and pulled out TF:Prime Vertebreak,
pretty much at random, and he is great, despite his weird little chicken
feet.

> Zob (*SHAKES FIST*)

Gustavo (*LIGHTS MATCH*)

On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 1:19:59 AM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> I honestly think the last few years of Masterpieces have been terrible
> toys. Nifty puzzles, sure, but terrible toys. Toys are meant to be played
> with, and these are meant to be displayed.

I'm in total agreement. I'm terrified to touch Megatron again. I can already tell you I'll never be attempting to transform him again. I might try Sunstreaker or Hound again some day, like, if I've been in a car wreck and I'm stuck in a body cast for several months and I need something to do. But otherwise, probably not.

I still *like* them, though. The puzzle aspect is part and parcel of the appeal. I don't go into it expecting them to be toys. I'm okay with putting them on a display shelf and maybe not touching them a whole lot. (Sometimes I approach the Masterpiece shelf and think about grabbing one and fiddling with it. But, most times I move on and do not fiddle.)

> I’m perfectly willing to say that requiring tolerances that cannot be accomplished,
> and strengths that cannot be achieved, is fundamentally a design issue.

I think the tolerances are there, but you have to handle some of the Masterpiece releases with kid gloves. Whether or not that should be necessary is another matter. I mean, if you give a kid a delicate model kit that you've assembled and painted and he breaks it, do you blame the consumer for being too rough or the manufacturer for not making it more durable?

> I might have just hit a point where I would prefer to have closet space and
> no plastic bins in my living room rather than 10,000 transformers where
> half just aren’t a lot of fun.

Yeah, storage is a problem for me as well. It does not, however, seem to force me to become more selective about what I buy. It just compels me to find more clever ways to stuff boxes into my closet.

Zob (between work and home, my entire life is cardboard boxes filled with toys)

Zobovor <zmfts@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 1:19:59 AM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the
> Seattle Wombats wrote:
>
>> I honestly think the last few years of Masterpieces have been terrible
>> toys. Nifty puzzles, sure, but terrible toys. Toys are meant to be played
>> with, and these are meant to be displayed.
>
> I'm in total agreement. I'm terrified to touch Megatron again. I can
> already tell you I'll never be attempting to transform him again. I
> might try Sunstreaker or Hound again some day, like, if I've been in a
> car wreck and I'm stuck in a body cast for several months and I need
> something to do. But otherwise, probably not.
>
> I still *like* them, though. The puzzle aspect is part and parcel of the
> appeal. I don't go into it expecting them to be toys. I'm okay with
> putting them on a display shelf and maybe not touching them a whole lot.
> (Sometimes I approach the Masterpiece shelf and think about grabbing one
> and fiddling with it. But, most times I move on and do not fiddle.)

Then why not a statue? Or a posable toy that doesn’t transform?

Not trying to harsh your mellow, I can understand there is some appeal in
it being possible the transform them, even if you never do, but I might
think that cartoon accuracy from the other directions would be more
important than a feature that is never used.

I love MP-10 Optimus, Smokescreen and friends, Sideswipe and friends, Ultra
Magnus, Bumblebee 1.0 and friends, Inferno and friends … but mostly they
are still toys. Complicated toys, but toys. There was an era of Masterpiece
that really spoke to me.

The fact that Sunstreaker or Megatron could be transformed by someone once
somewhere is an interesting thing to note, but I’m not sure I would buy
them again knowing what I know now.

>> I might have just hit a point where I would prefer to have closet space and
>> no plastic bins in my living room rather than 10,000 transformers where
>> half just aren’t a lot of fun.
>
> Yeah, storage is a problem for me as well. It does not, however, seem to
> force me to become more selective about what I buy. It just compels me
> to find more clever ways to stuff boxes into my closet.

I should buy another house. One for me, one for The Collection.

Or I should go through all the bins one by one and see if I really want to
keep it…

On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 1:19:25 AM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> Then why not a statue? Or a posable toy that doesn’t transform?

So, we know the G1 cartoon took a lot of shortcuts. Simplified the designs of the Diaclone toys to make them easier to draw. Reduced everybody to superheroes wearing boxes. Decided not to draw things like car wheels and fire truck ladders. The toys could be a letdown if you were exposed to the cartoon first, only to get the toys and find out that Brawn had claws and Ironhide had no head and Megatron was just the most awful thing ever. Transformers is like the worst 22-minute toy commercial ever, because it totally misrepresented the toys.

So then Takara comes along and actually makes toys that look like the guys on the show. Pieces that disappear when the characters transform? Tuck 'em into a hidden panel somewhere. Parts that magically change shape or color? Swap 'em out for a faux piece. Somehow, with Masterpiece, they actually realize these crazy, incredibly cheatsy character designs in three-dimensional space. The robot-to-vehicle transformation is part of that character design.

A lot of the neo-G1 toys manage to achieve a lot of this on a smaller scale with a reduced complexity level and a lower price point, which makes my wallet happy. But I love when they go all out with Masterpiece. A non-transforming toy simply wouldn't have the same appeal.

Zob (has nothing to add here)