Currentzis is coming to the RCO for a Mahler (that's as creative as they get in Amsterdam). It is said by some that this is a risk.
After listening to several items on YT, I don't understand why. Viotti and Makela seem more extravagant than this young man. For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G8t-m9MvAA

Henk

hvt...@xs4all.nl schrieb am Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2023 um 16:01:09 UTC+1:
> Currentzis is coming to the RCO for a Mahler (that's as creative as they get in Amsterdam).

To improve things, suggest them to hire me perhaps.

> It is said by some that this is a risk.
> After listening to several items on YT, I don't understand why. Viotti and Makela seem more extravagant than this young man. For example:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G8t-m9MvAA
>
> Henk

I don't care whether he is extravagant or not. He just sucks. Many people have noted the following about Currentzis: very fast, LOUD - quiet -LOUD - quiet -LOUD - quiet, and ofc very fast... it seems he only knows extremes. I only listened to parts of his Mozart operas and thought they were really horrible. Like really horrible. I assure you, I could do it better.

On Wednesday, 1 February 2023 at 15:01:09 UTC, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Currentzis is coming to the RCO for a Mahler (that's as creative as they get in Amsterdam). It is said by some that this is a risk.
> After listening to several items on YT, I don't understand why. Viotti and Makela seem more extravagant than this young man. For example:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G8t-m9MvAA
> > Henk

Speeds sounded OK to me. Not too much charm, though. A bit robotic even if he dances about with the music.

Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2023 um 16:07:01 UTC+1:
> hvt...@xs4all.nl schrieb am Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2023 um 16:01:09 UTC+1:
> > Currentzis is coming to the RCO for a Mahler (that's as creative as they get in Amsterdam).
> To improve things, suggest them to hire me perhaps.
> > It is said by some that this is a risk.
> > After listening to several items on YT, I don't understand why. Viotti and Makela seem more extravagant than this young man. For example:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G8t-m9MvAA
> >
> > Henk
> I don't care whether he is extravagant or not. He just sucks. Many people have noted the following about Currentzis: very fast, LOUD - quiet -LOUD - quiet -LOUD - quiet, and ofc very fast... it seems he only knows extremes. I only listened to parts of his Mozart operas and thought they were really horrible. Like really horrible. I assure you, I could do it better.

To correct myself: I think it was that he sort of followed the following formula in mozart fast+loud and quiet+slow (I might be wrong and over generalizing); no sense for texture, generally just very awful. No need to waste time with him, I already feel stupid for havign clicked on the link... the prokofiev is horrible (pianist didn't do anything for me either). As much as I dislike Gardiner, he does a much better job w Mozart. Listened just to bits of the Prokofiev and thought it was horrible - really, the most incompetent conductor.

But what wonder is it, we have absolutely idiotic politicians, men pretending to be women and stuff like that, so ofc we have incompetent conductors. The plebs rule the market, and the plebs love Currentzis.

On 2023-02-01 9:50 a.m., Andy Evans wrote:
> On Wednesday, 1 February 2023 at 15:01:09 UTC, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
>> Currentzis is coming to the RCO for a Mahler (that's as creative as they get in Amsterdam). It is said by some that this is a risk.
>> After listening to several items on YT, I don't understand why. Viotti and Makela seem more extravagant than this young man. For example:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G8t-m9MvAA
>>> Henk
>
> Speeds sounded OK to me. Not too much charm, though. A bit robotic even if he dances about with the music.
Regarding a dancing conductor:
Back in 1964 or 1965, I and several friends attended a concert where
Haitink was the conductor. I think it must have been the LPO on tour
and was a change from the weekly Hallé concerts.
What struck us most was the frantic ballet that Haitink performed on the
podium, his hair (he had some then) flying about wildly.

On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 6:34:44 PM UTC+1, Graham wrote:
>
> Regarding a dancing conductor:
> Back in 1964 or 1965, I and several friends attended a concert where
> Haitink was the conductor. I think it must have been the LPO on tour
> and was a change from the weekly Hallé concerts.
> What struck us most was the frantic ballet that Haitink performed on the
> podium, his hair (he had some then) flying about wildly.

Thanks for this observation. People who have never seen him tend to speak of Haitink as Mr. Dullsville, but indeed he could get totally excited on the podium. Another thing was, he hated the end applause. He wanted to get away as soon as possible, no flowers please, and distill the excitement he'd found in the music.

On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 2:01:09 AM UTC+11, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Currentzis is coming to the RCO for a Mahler (that's as creative as they get in Amsterdam). It is said by some that this is a risk.
> After listening to several items on YT, I don't understand why. Viotti and Makela seem more extravagant than this young man. For example:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G8t-m9MvAA
>
> Henk

Firstly, here is some traditional Dutch music (not by Badings or even Clemens non Papa) to calm the Amsterdamers down a bit after the shock of being potentially exposed to Mahler:

< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT9naCq0fdE&t=35s >

Secondly, it seems to be difficult to find a conductor whose career developed since about 1980 who is *not* considered a fraud by many. Gardiner, Norrington, Youdududumel-Yoududumel, Rattle, Roth, Makela ...

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Op zaterdag 4 februari 2023 om 15:42:09 UTC+1 schreef andrewc...@gmail.com:

> Secondly, it seems to be difficult to find a conductor whose career developed since about 1980 who is *not* considered a fraud by many. Gardiner, Norrington, Youdududumel-Yoududumel, Rattle, Roth, Makela ...

I loved the 'klompendans' - too elegant and the humour is too refined to be Dutch. Thanks.

According to 'the' media, Currentzis did very well. The Amsterdammers loved their Mahler as well as their Shostakovich (Melnikov, 2nd piano concerto).

The old, grey-haired white male no longer rules the earth (I.e. the KCO).

Henk

On Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 3:42:09 PM UTC+1, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 2:01:09 AM UTC+11, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> > Currentzis is coming to the RCO for a Mahler (that's as creative as they get in Amsterdam). It is said by some that this is a risk.
> > After listening to several items on YT, I don't understand why. Viotti and Makela seem more extravagant than this young man. For example:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G8t-m9MvAA
> >
> > Henk
> Firstly, here is some traditional Dutch music (not by Badings or even Clemens non Papa) to calm the Amsterdammers down a bit after the shock of being potentially exposed to Mahler:
>
In reality Amsterdam is a Mahler capital.

On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 2:08:03 AM UTC+11, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Op zaterdag 4 februari 2023 om 15:42:09 UTC+1 schreef andrewc...@gmail.com:
> > Secondly, it seems to be difficult to find a conductor whose career developed since about 1980 who is *not* considered a fraud by many. Gardiner, Norrington, Youdududumel-Yoududumel, Rattle, Roth, Makela ...
> I loved the 'klompendans' - too elegant and the humour is too refined to be Dutch. Thanks.
>
> According to 'the' media, Currentzis did very well. The Amsterdammers loved their Mahler as well as their Shostakovich (Melnikov, 2nd piano concerto).
>
> The old, grey-haired white male no longer rules the earth (I.e. the KCO).
>
> Henk

There is another Netherlands connection, albeit indirect. The sets were originally designed by English cartoonist, architecture critic and in later life, set designer Sir Osbert Lancaster, who wrote a series of very funny illustrated books on the foibles of British architecture, now sadly out of print. One style was what he called Pont Street Dutch, a once fashionable style to be found in Knightsbridge in London:

< https://www.flickr.com/photos/costi-londra/2094550437 >

Sadly, I cannot find an online image of Sir Osbert's original drawing. You will have to have some of his interiors instead:

< https://markhillpublishing.com/sir-osbert-lancaster-victorianism-modernism/ >

One of the distinctive features of life in Australia is not so much meeting Australians as the opportunity to meet just about everybody else, and I have worked with several men and women from the Netherlands in my time. I think you do your fellow-countrymen a disservice, although they do tend to call a spade a spade even more than Australians do.

Here is an audience of Amsterdammers watching an extraordinary performance of "The Magic Flute" with Sir John Eliot Gardiner, Gerald Finlay and a modern dance troupe at the Concertgebouw. At first, they can't believe their eyes. At the end, it's a standing ovation:
< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE_f95sI0KA >
< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5imHfFzOmg >

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 2:56:30 AM UTC+1, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Here is an audience of Amsterdammers watching an extraordinary performance of "The Magic Flute" with Sir John Eliot Gardiner, Gerald Finlay and a modern dance troupe at the Concertgebouw. At first, they can't believe their eyes. At the end, it's a standing ovation:
> < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE_f95sI0KA >
> < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5imHfFzOmg >
>
you may be imagining things, such as "they can't believe their eyes". Holland has never much been a place for old fashioned traditional theatre, and this show from 1995 was in fact rather 'eighties' in tone and color. BTW it looks like this was a premiere night, with the former Queen in attendance (which is why the camera is facing the balcony in the first minute), and she used to be a champion of the 9modern) Netherlands Dance Theatre.
You're previous remark that people in Amsterdam would be shocked to hear Mahler was even more bizarre.

On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 2:08:03 AM UTC+11, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Op zaterdag 4 februari 2023 om 15:42:09 UTC+1 schreef andrewc...@gmail.com:
> > Secondly, it seems to be difficult to find a conductor whose career developed since about 1980 who is *not* considered a fraud by many. Gardiner, Norrington, Youdududumel-Yoududumel, Rattle, Roth, Makela ...
> I loved the 'klompendans' - too elegant and the humour is too refined to be Dutch. Thanks.
>
> According to 'the' media, Currentzis did very well. The Amsterdammers loved their Mahler as well as their Shostakovich (Melnikov, 2nd piano concerto).
>
> The old, grey-haired white male no longer rules the earth (I.e. the KCO).
>
> Henk

I'm glad Currentzis was well received, and I forgot to tell you that my son-in-law's mother came from Haarlem. So my grandson's middle name is Nikolaas, and my granddaughter's middle name is Louise.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 14:39:22 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 2:08:03 AM UTC+11, hvt...xs4all.nl wrote:
> > Op zaterdag 4 februari 2023 om 15:42:09 UTC+1 schreef andrewc...gmail.com:
> > > Secondly, it seems to be difficult to find a conductor whose career developed since about 1980 who is *not* considered a fraud by many. Gardiner, Norrington, Youdududumel-Yoududumel, Rattle, Roth, Makela ...
> > I loved the 'klompendans' - too elegant and the humour is too refined to be Dutch. Thanks.
> >
> > According to 'the' media, Currentzis did very well. The Amsterdammers loved their Mahler as well as their Shostakovich (Melnikov, 2nd piano concerto).
> >
> > The old, grey-haired white male no longer rules the earth (I.e. the KCO).
> >
> > Henk
> I'm glad Currentzis was well received,

Why? Is he the new young thing? Looks good on the podium does he?

About time you mentioned some real conducting talent, but I haven't heard you mention much so far.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 9:41:22 PM UTC-8, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Why? Is he the new young thing?

He is over 50. Maybe that counts
as the "new young" on r.m.c.r! ;-)

> Looks good on the podium does he?

He doesn't look good enough to
make one forget he is a second
rate conductor.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/Teodor_Currentzis._The_conductor_in_PermOpera._2016.jpg/800px-Teodor_Currentzis._The_conductor_in_PermOpera._2016.jpg

Even HvK looked far better.

dk

On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 16:45:01 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 9:41:22 PM UTC-8, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Why? Is he the new young thing?
> He is over 50. Maybe that counts
> as the "new young" on r.m.c.r! ;-)
> > Looks good on the podium does he?
> He doesn't look good enough to
> make one forget he is a second
> rate conductor.
>
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/Teodor_Currentzis._The_conductor_in_PermOpera._2016.jpg/800px-Teodor_Currentzis._The_conductor_in_PermOpera._2016.jpg
>
> Even HvK looked far better.
>
> dk

K couldn't look. He always had his eyes closed. ;)

Ray Hall, Taree

On Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 9:50:16 PM UTC-8, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 16:45:01 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 9:41:22 PM UTC-8, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Why? Is he the new young thing?
> > He is over 50. Maybe that counts
> > as the "new young" on r.m.c.r! ;-)
> > > Looks good on the podium does he?
> > He doesn't look good enough to
> > make one forget he is a second
> > rate conductor.
> >
> > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/Teodor_Currentzis._The_conductor_in_PermOpera._2016.jpg/800px-Teodor_Currentzis._The_conductor_in_PermOpera._2016.jpg
> >
> > Even HvK looked far better.
>
> K couldn't look. He always
> had his eyes closed. ;)

Not so judging from this photo:

https://c8.alamy.com/compfr/x66c7m/herbert-von-karajan-5-4-1908-16-7-1989-chef-d-orchestre-autrichien-avec-l-epouse-eliette-1960-60s-20e-siecle-x66c7m.jpg

The best looking conductor was:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Portrait_of_Arthur_Nikisch.jpg

dk

On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 16:45:01 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 9:41:22 PM UTC-8, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Why? Is he the new young thing?
> He is over 50. Maybe that counts
> as the "new young" on r.m.c.r! ;-)
> > Looks good on the podium does he?
> He doesn't look good enough to
> make one forget he is a second
> rate conductor.
>
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/Teodor_Currentzis._The_conductor_in_PermOpera._2016.jpg/800px-Teodor_Currentzis._The_conductor_in_PermOpera._2016.jpg
>
> Even HvK looked far better.
>
> dk

Beloved of people like Sir Adrian Boult. He recalled, "I went to all his [Nikisch's] rehearsals and concerts in the Gewandhaus. ... He had an astonishing baton technique and great command of the orchestra: everything was indicated with absolute precision. But there were others who were greater interpreters."

Ray Hall, Taree

On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 4:41:22 PM UTC+11, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 14:39:22 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:

> > I'm glad Currentzis was well received,
> Why? Is he the new young thing? Looks good on the podium does he?
>
> About time you mentioned some real conducting talent, but I haven't heard you mention much so far.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

Ray, I don't have league tables for conductors or indeed singers and dancers. And in any case, I think that the era of the Heldendirigent is over. This may or may not be a good thing, and I can see from some of the reactions here, from people who have been collecting and evaluating CDs for years, that many find this threatening. I personally don't. Whether Mr Currentzis looks better or worse on stage than Mr Roth or Mr Wilson or Mr Makela, I am not in a position to know.

I am in a position to tell you that Arsenal are at the top of the Premier League (which is soccer played by teams of fabulously well-paid foreigners purportedly representing various cities and towns in England and Wales). Of that there is no doubt. We could argue until the cows come home about whether they should be there, or whether the British soccer critics are insidiously promoting Arsenal over other more worthy teams such as Sheffield Wednesday or Cardiff City or Mansfield Town, but it would be to no avail. It's of even less avail when it comes to discussing the merits of various conductors, counter-tenors, heckelphone soloists, etc., although there are people who make a lot of waves trying to.

At the moment I'm listening to lots of Sir Roger Norrington, inspired of course by Mr Dallas's latest diatribe. He - Norrington, that is - doesn't look much on stage, but he'd done a marvellous "Italian" Symphony ...

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 2:37:48 PM UTC+11, Herman wrote:
> On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 2:56:30 AM UTC+1, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > Here is an audience of Amsterdammers watching an extraordinary performance of "The Magic Flute" with Sir John Eliot Gardiner, Gerald Finlay and a modern dance troupe at the Concertgebouw. At first, they can't believe their eyes. At the end, it's a standing ovation:
> > < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE_f95sI0KA >
> > < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5imHfFzOmg >
> >
> you may be imagining things, such as "they can't believe their eyes". Holland has never much been a place for old fashioned traditional theatre, and this show from 1995 was in fact rather 'eighties' in tone and color. BTW it looks like this was a premiere night, with the former Queen in attendance (which is why the camera is facing the balcony in the first minute), and she used to be a champion of the 9modern) Netherlands Dance Theatre.
> You're previous remark that people in Amsterdam would be shocked to hear Mahler was even more bizarre.

My first remark was based on the astonished expressions on the face of some of the gentlemen in suits visible in the audience. My second was a tongue in cheek response to an equally tongue in cheek comment by one of our resident Dutchmen.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 21:09:07 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 4:41:22 PM UTC+11, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 14:39:22 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > I'm glad Currentzis was well received,
> > Why? Is he the new young thing? Looks good on the podium does he?
> >
> > About time you mentioned some real conducting talent, but I haven't heard you mention much so far.
> >
> > Ray Hall, Taree
> Ray, I don't have league tables for conductors or indeed singers and dancers. And in any case, I think that the era of the Heldendirigent is over. This may or may not be a good thing, and I can see from some of the reactions here, from people who have been collecting and evaluating CDs for years, that many find this threatening. I personally don't. Whether Mr Currentzis looks better or worse on stage than Mr Roth or Mr Wilson or Mr Makela, I am not in a position to know.
>
> I am in a position to tell you that Arsenal are at the top of the Premier League (which is soccer played by teams of fabulously well-paid foreigners purportedly representing various cities and towns in England and Wales). Of that there is no doubt. We could argue until the cows come home about whether they should be there, or whether the British soccer critics are insidiously promoting Arsenal over other more worthy teams such as Sheffield Wednesday or Cardiff City or Mansfield Town, but it would be to no avail. It's of even less avail when it comes to discussing the merits of various conductors, counter-tenors, heckelphone soloists, etc., although there are people who make a lot of waves trying to.
>
> At the moment I'm listening to lots of Sir Roger Norrington, inspired of course by Mr Dallas's latest diatribe. He - Norrington, that is - doesn't look much on stage, but he'd done a marvellous "Italian" Symphony ...
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

As an ardent Arsenal fan for eons, (all the way through the Wenger era and before) I know full well the drawbacks of being A Gooner. Mike Arteta seems as though he has it in hand, despite the very latest return to Goodison Park and a 1-0 slap around the chops with a Merseyside wet fish.

Onto dirigentsia, most or even all of the well known classics, have been done, almost to death, by their respective advocates of the "golden era", not that long ago, sadly passed. Now, do I turn to Abbado's wonderful set, or Maag for the Scottish, or Herbst the K, or Dohnanyi's/VPO set. As a consequence, I find it very difficult to think of other recordings simply because it is newer, and conducted by the latest in-vogue stars, given that I will sate myself with Mendselssohn and then move on? Maybe one of the few composers of the 19th century badly underrated incidentally.

Or if needing a Sibelius type fix, do I turn to Makela, all of 23 years old, (and juggling with an entire symphonic repertoire as he grows into his podium suit), or do I listen to Berglund (3 of them), Davis (4), Maazel (2), Blomstedt (2), Vanska (2or 3?), Segerstam, HvK, Barbirolli (Halle), Ormandy, Kamu, or a host of others probably equally as good.

Rattle of course knows the "entire" symphonic repertoire or so his agents think, but where is his Shosty, Prokofiev, Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Balakirev, or has Fedoseyev only been doing them for 50 odd years without so much as a fanfare?

I am glad you support your favourite musicians, but wish I could get half as enthused. But we both love Arsenal, so this is a start. And the NY Yankees are a month off spring training so a lot to look forward to.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 11:17:50 PM UTC+11, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 21:09:07 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 4:41:22 PM UTC+11, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 14:39:22 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > > I'm glad Currentzis was well received,
> > > Why? Is he the new young thing? Looks good on the podium does he?
> > >
> > > About time you mentioned some real conducting talent, but I haven't heard you mention much so far.
> > >
> > > Ray Hall, Taree
> > Ray, I don't have league tables for conductors or indeed singers and dancers. And in any case, I think that the era of the Heldendirigent is over. This may or may not be a good thing, and I can see from some of the reactions here, from people who have been collecting and evaluating CDs for years, that many find this threatening. I personally don't. Whether Mr Currentzis looks better or worse on stage than Mr Roth or Mr Wilson or Mr Makela, I am not in a position to know.
> >
> > I am in a position to tell you that Arsenal are at the top of the Premier League (which is soccer played by teams of fabulously well-paid foreigners purportedly representing various cities and towns in England and Wales). Of that there is no doubt. We could argue until the cows come home about whether they should be there, or whether the British soccer critics are insidiously promoting Arsenal over other more worthy teams such as Sheffield Wednesday or Cardiff City or Mansfield Town, but it would be to no avail. It's of even less avail when it comes to discussing the merits of various conductors, counter-tenors, heckelphone soloists, etc., although there are people who make a lot of waves trying to.
> >
> > At the moment I'm listening to lots of Sir Roger Norrington, inspired of course by Mr Dallas's latest diatribe. He - Norrington, that is - doesn't look much on stage, but he'd done a marvellous "Italian" Symphony ...
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> As an ardent Arsenal fan for eons, (all the way through the Wenger era and before) I know full well the drawbacks of being A Gooner. Mike Arteta seems as though he has it in hand, despite the very latest return to Goodison Park and a 1-0 slap around the chops with a Merseyside wet fish.
>
> Onto dirigentsia, most or even all of the well known classics, have been done, almost to death, by their respective advocates of the "golden era", not that long ago, sadly passed. Now, do I turn to Abbado's wonderful set, or Maag for the Scottish, or Herbst the K, or Dohnanyi's/VPO set. As a consequence, I find it very difficult to think of other recordings simply because it is newer, and conducted by the latest in-vogue stars, given that I will sate myself with Mendselssohn and then move on? Maybe one of the few composers of the 19th century badly underrated incidentally.
>
> Or if needing a Sibelius type fix, do I turn to Makela, all of 23 years old, (and juggling with an entire symphonic repertoire as he grows into his podium suit), or do I listen to Berglund (3 of them), Davis (4), Maazel (2), Blomstedt (2), Vanska (2or 3?), Segerstam, HvK, Barbirolli (Halle), Ormandy, Kamu, or a host of others probably equally as good.
>
> Rattle of course knows the "entire" symphonic repertoire or so his agents think, but where is his Shosty, Prokofiev, Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Balakirev, or has Fedoseyev only been doing them for 50 odd years without so much as a fanfare?
>
> I am glad you support your favourite musicians, but wish I could get half as enthused. But we both love Arsenal, so this is a start. And the NY Yankees are a month off spring training so a lot to look forward to.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

Ray, I must disabuse you of any connection to the Arsenal: in fact, the only soccer team with which I have any sentimental connection is, I'm afraid, Huddersfield Town, and both the team and the town it represents are now on a steep downward slide to which I can see no end. I did support South Melbourne in the days when they played at the Albert Park Oval, and occasionally see how they're going as the Sydney Swans, although I haven't attended a game of Australian Rules since the 1960s and don't watch it on TV as the broadcast is always saturated with ads, which I can't stand.

It does appear to me that we're allowed to like Mendelssohn again, which I think the HIP bands have done much to accomplish. I'm very fond of Bruno Weill's recording of the "Italian" with Tafelmusik, for example. And the Berlin Phil under Kiril Petrenko are about to / have just performed 'Elijah', which I might watch on Digital Concert Hall. The string quartets are very good too, and there's a fine recording of the complete set by the New Zealand String Quartet for Naxos.

Are you arguing that as the best recordings of Mendelssohn and just about everybody else have already been made, there's no point in making any more?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 4:41:22 PM UTC+11, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 14:39:22 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 2:08:03 AM UTC+11, hvt...xs4all.nl wrote:
> > > Op zaterdag 4 februari 2023 om 15:42:09 UTC+1 schreef andrewc...gmail.com:
> > > > Secondly, it seems to be difficult to find a conductor whose career developed since about 1980 who is *not* considered a fraud by many. Gardiner, Norrington, Youdududumel-Yoududumel, Rattle, Roth, Makela ...
> > > I loved the 'klompendans' - too elegant and the humour is too refined to be Dutch. Thanks.
> > >
> > > According to 'the' media, Currentzis did very well. The Amsterdammers loved their Mahler as well as their Shostakovich (Melnikov, 2nd piano concerto).
> > >
> > > The old, grey-haired white male no longer rules the earth (I.e. the KCO).
> > >
> > > Henk
> > I'm glad Currentzis was well received,
> Why? Is he the new young thing? Looks good on the podium does he?
>
> About time you mentioned some real conducting talent, but I haven't heard you mention much so far.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

Well, there's Raphael Pichon, whose ensemble Pygmalion has given us a much-praised St Matthew Passion, but alas, he was born in 1984 so he can't be much good, can he now?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Monday, 6 February 2023 at 01:57:02 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 11:17:50 PM UTC+11, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 21:09:07 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 4:41:22 PM UTC+11, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 14:39:22 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > > I'm glad Currentzis was well received,
> > > > Why? Is he the new young thing? Looks good on the podium does he?
> > > >
> > > > About time you mentioned some real conducting talent, but I haven't heard you mention much so far.
> > > >
> > > > Ray Hall, Taree
> > > Ray, I don't have league tables for conductors or indeed singers and dancers. And in any case, I think that the era of the Heldendirigent is over. This may or may not be a good thing, and I can see from some of the reactions here, from people who have been collecting and evaluating CDs for years, that many find this threatening. I personally don't. Whether Mr Currentzis looks better or worse on stage than Mr Roth or Mr Wilson or Mr Makela, I am not in a position to know.
> > >
> > > I am in a position to tell you that Arsenal are at the top of the Premier League (which is soccer played by teams of fabulously well-paid foreigners purportedly representing various cities and towns in England and Wales). Of that there is no doubt. We could argue until the cows come home about whether they should be there, or whether the British soccer critics are insidiously promoting Arsenal over other more worthy teams such as Sheffield Wednesday or Cardiff City or Mansfield Town, but it would be to no avail. It's of even less avail when it comes to discussing the merits of various conductors, counter-tenors, heckelphone soloists, etc., although there are people who make a lot of waves trying to.
> > >
> > > At the moment I'm listening to lots of Sir Roger Norrington, inspired of course by Mr Dallas's latest diatribe. He - Norrington, that is - doesn't look much on stage, but he'd done a marvellous "Italian" Symphony ...
> > >
> > > Andrew Clarke
> > > Canberra
> > As an ardent Arsenal fan for eons, (all the way through the Wenger era and before) I know full well the drawbacks of being A Gooner. Mike Arteta seems as though he has it in hand, despite the very latest return to Goodison Park and a 1-0 slap around the chops with a Merseyside wet fish.
> >
> > Onto dirigentsia, most or even all of the well known classics, have been done, almost to death, by their respective advocates of the "golden era", not that long ago, sadly passed. Now, do I turn to Abbado's wonderful set, or Maag for the Scottish, or Herbst the K, or Dohnanyi's/VPO set. As a consequence, I find it very difficult to think of other recordings simply because it is newer, and conducted by the latest in-vogue stars, given that I will sate myself with Mendselssohn and then move on? Maybe one of the few composers of the 19th century badly underrated incidentally.
> >
> > Or if needing a Sibelius type fix, do I turn to Makela, all of 23 years old, (and juggling with an entire symphonic repertoire as he grows into his podium suit), or do I listen to Berglund (3 of them), Davis (4), Maazel (2), Blomstedt (2), Vanska (2or 3?), Segerstam, HvK, Barbirolli (Halle), Ormandy, Kamu, or a host of others probably equally as good.
> >
> > Rattle of course knows the "entire" symphonic repertoire or so his agents think, but where is his Shosty, Prokofiev, Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Balakirev, or has Fedoseyev only been doing them for 50 odd years without so much as a fanfare?
> >
> > I am glad you support your favourite musicians, but wish I could get half as enthused. But we both love Arsenal, so this is a start. And the NY Yankees are a month off spring training so a lot to look forward to.
> >
> > Ray Hall, Taree
> Ray, I must disabuse you of any connection to the Arsenal: in fact, the only soccer team with which I have any sentimental connection is, I'm afraid, Huddersfield Town, and both the team and the town it represents are now on a steep downward slide to which I can see no end. I did support South Melbourne in the days when they played at the Albert Park Oval, and occasionally see how they're going as the Sydney Swans, although I haven't attended a game of Australian Rules since the 1960s and don't watch it on TV as the broadcast is always saturated with ads, which I can't stand.
>
> It does appear to me that we're allowed to like Mendelssohn again, which I think the HIP bands have done much to accomplish. I'm very fond of Bruno Weill's recording of the "Italian" with Tafelmusik, for example. And the Berlin Phil under Kiril Petrenko are about to / have just performed 'Elijah', which I might watch on Digital Concert Hall. The string quartets are very good too, and there's a fine recording of the complete set by the New Zealand String Quartet for Naxos.
>
> Are you arguing that as the best recordings of Mendelssohn and just about everybody else have already been made, there's no point in making any more?
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

No, of course not, but with my collection, why should I interest myself in newer recordings? I am content with what I have with regard to the standard classics and therefore my searching has ended. I might listen to Mendelssohn this week and not again for a year. So much music to cover in between. I do have a lot of Tafelmusik also but not in Mendelssohn.

Ray Hall, Taree

In article <5275de35-b17c-4403-8cc9-ed8a8d9fc462n@googlegroups.com>,
raymond....@gmail.com <raymond.hallbear1@gmail.com> wrote:
>No, of course not, but with my collection, why should I interest
>myself in newer recordings?

I'm someone mainly oriented on new performances, but I also resisted
moving to computerized playback, because I didn't want to mess with
the "experience" etc. The only thing that really pushed me in that
direction was that promos shifted more & more to be download only,
which annoyed me for a while, but then I found myself actually
preferring to play what was on the computer.... Once I had the
software etc. that satisfied me, it was simply easier.

Then there was the matter of digitizing old recordings... which was
quite daunting, but did get done. (The advice to digitize what you
play after you play it seems good to me....)

Now if I get a new physical item, the first thing I usually do is
put it on a hard drive.... (And more & more isn't released on CDs
anymore anyway, including that more & more releases appear by default
in 24bit formats....)

On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 4:01:32 PM UTC-8, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, 6 February 2023 at 01:57:02 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Are you arguing that as the best recordings of Mendelssohn and just about
> > everybody else have already been made, there's no point in making any more?
>
> No, of course not, but with my collection, why should I interest myself in newer
> recordings? I am content with what I have with regard to the standard classics
> and therefore my searching has ended. I might listen to Mendelssohn this week
> and not again for a year. So much music to cover in between. I do have a lot of
> Tafelmusik also but not in Mendelssohn.

One can always listen to several scores at the same time.

dk