On Tuesday, August 28, 2018 at 2:05:54 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 8/28/2018 4:18 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On 8/28/2018 2:55 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> I've never heard such pompous bullshit as has appeared in this thread. Written by known right wing self satisfied personnae, it demonstrates 'truths' only they believe is really true.
> >>
> > And what you say is what you, apparently, believe is really true. So
> > we're even.
> >
> >> The reality is far far different. The mass distribution of wealth to an ever dwindling minute percentage, overrides the odd examples of an individual, getting lucky and overcoming an inertia of actually moving upwards, and which is so great it defies belief that people here actually believe what they post.
> >>
> >
> > -The research disagrees with you leftist -dogma.
> >
> > The word 'research' is clearly demeaned outside of a scientific context..
> >
> I'm talking about peer reviewed research by economists, not something
> from the National Enquirer, or even the Economist.
> >> Trump is actually a result of the powerful suppressing the truth, promoted by the likes of Fox BS, gangsters like Murdoch, and the excesses of Wall Street. It is Trump and other warts on society that talk of walls, restricted free trade by using tariffs, and who have an obvious dislike of being seen to condemn the Nazi-type elements who in their abject misery vote for an infant-man now residing in the White House.
> >>
> > -You can not goad me into defending Trump.
> >
> > Trump is merely the idiot promoted by the populist power players as mentioned above. Nobody of any intelligence can defend an idiot. How about mentioning his promoters?
> >
> You can not goad me into defending his promoters.
> >> The Holocaust, and other world horrors, are the results for all to see and for those who should know better, to ignore in their pitiable self-satisfied smugness. Once again. All is forgotten. Ever onwards.
> >>
> >
> > -Never again!
> >
> > We agree. How extraordinary.
> >
> By speaking about and not forgetting it (i.e. ever onwards) we reduce
> the chance of it happening again.
> >> Real freedom is not the freedoms espoused by the right wing. Real freedom is something they wouldn't know about.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> One example of 'freedom' resides in Australia, where it is now not possible to freely demonstrate, not possible to report the abuses in Manus and Nauru, and other restrictions only a rabid mob of right wing extremists in our so-called 'Lieberal' government have enacted.
> >>
> >
> > -I don't call that freedom any more than -you do. Did you think I would?
> >
> > No. But once again, you fail to address the question of why these freedoms are curtailed.
> >
> Because power corrupts.......
> The question is what form of government minimizes the amount of or
> effect of corruption. Certainly not socialism/communism. That just
> concentrates power in the hands of the Party elite. Even if Capitalism
> results in concentration of power in the hands of an economic elite, is
> that worse?

Could capitalism be antiethical to democracy?:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/01/27/capitalism-is-antithetical-to-democracy/

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 9:11:27 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 28, 2018 at 2:05:54 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> > On 8/28/2018 4:18 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On 8/28/2018 2:55 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> I've never heard such pompous bullshit as has appeared in this thread. Written by known right wing self satisfied personnae, it demonstrates 'truths' only they believe is really true.
> > >>
> > > And what you say is what you, apparently, believe is really true. So
> > > we're even.
> > >
> > >> The reality is far far different. The mass distribution of wealth to an ever dwindling minute percentage, overrides the odd examples of an individual, getting lucky and overcoming an inertia of actually moving upwards, and which is so great it defies belief that people here actually believe what they post.
> > >>
> > >
> > > -The research disagrees with you leftist -dogma.
> > >
> > > The word 'research' is clearly demeaned outside of a scientific context.
> > >
> > I'm talking about peer reviewed research by economists, not something
> > from the National Enquirer, or even the Economist.
> > >> Trump is actually a result of the powerful suppressing the truth, promoted by the likes of Fox BS, gangsters like Murdoch, and the excesses of Wall Street. It is Trump and other warts on society that talk of walls, restricted free trade by using tariffs, and who have an obvious dislike of being seen to condemn the Nazi-type elements who in their abject misery vote for an infant-man now residing in the White House.
> > >>
> > > -You can not goad me into defending Trump.
> > >
> > > Trump is merely the idiot promoted by the populist power players as mentioned above. Nobody of any intelligence can defend an idiot. How about mentioning his promoters?
> > >
> > You can not goad me into defending his promoters.
> > >> The Holocaust, and other world horrors, are the results for all to see and for those who should know better, to ignore in their pitiable self-satisfied smugness. Once again. All is forgotten. Ever onwards.
> > >>
> > >
> > > -Never again!
> > >
> > > We agree. How extraordinary.
> > >
> > By speaking about and not forgetting it (i.e. ever onwards) we reduce
> > the chance of it happening again.
> > >> Real freedom is not the freedoms espoused by the right wing. Real freedom is something they wouldn't know about.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> One example of 'freedom' resides in Australia, where it is now not possible to freely demonstrate, not possible to report the abuses in Manus and Nauru, and other restrictions only a rabid mob of right wing extremists in our so-called 'Lieberal' government have enacted.
> > >>
> > >
> > > -I don't call that freedom any more than -you do. Did you think I would?
> > >
> > > No. But once again, you fail to address the question of why these freedoms are curtailed.
> > >
> > Because power corrupts.......
> > The question is what form of government minimizes the amount of or
> > effect of corruption. Certainly not socialism/communism. That just
> > concentrates power in the hands of the Party elite. Even if Capitalism
> > results in concentration of power in the hands of an economic elite, is
> > that worse?

"Michael Hudson – The Destiny of Civilization: Finance Capitalism, Industrial Capitalism or Socialism":

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/07/27/michael-hudson-the-destiny-of-civilization-finance-capitalism-industrial-capitalism-or-socialism/

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 9:11:27 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 28, 2018 at 2:05:54 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> > On 8/28/2018 4:18 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On 8/28/2018 2:55 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> I've never heard such pompous bullshit as has appeared in this thread. Written by known right wing self satisfied personnae, it demonstrates 'truths' only they believe is really true.
> > >>
> > > And what you say is what you, apparently, believe is really true. So
> > > we're even.
> > >
> > >> The reality is far far different. The mass distribution of wealth to an ever dwindling minute percentage, overrides the odd examples of an individual, getting lucky and overcoming an inertia of actually moving upwards, and which is so great it defies belief that people here actually believe what they post.
> > >>
> > >
> > > -The research disagrees with you leftist -dogma.
> > >
> > > The word 'research' is clearly demeaned outside of a scientific context.
> > >
> > I'm talking about peer reviewed research by economists, not something
> > from the National Enquirer, or even the Economist.
> > >> Trump is actually a result of the powerful suppressing the truth, promoted by the likes of Fox BS, gangsters like Murdoch, and the excesses of Wall Street. It is Trump and other warts on society that talk of walls, restricted free trade by using tariffs, and who have an obvious dislike of being seen to condemn the Nazi-type elements who in their abject misery vote for an infant-man now residing in the White House.
> > >>
> > > -You can not goad me into defending Trump.
> > >
> > > Trump is merely the idiot promoted by the populist power players as mentioned above. Nobody of any intelligence can defend an idiot. How about mentioning his promoters?
> > >
> > You can not goad me into defending his promoters.
> > >> The Holocaust, and other world horrors, are the results for all to see and for those who should know better, to ignore in their pitiable self-satisfied smugness. Once again. All is forgotten. Ever onwards.
> > >>
> > >
> > > -Never again!
> > >
> > > We agree. How extraordinary.
> > >
> > By speaking about and not forgetting it (i.e. ever onwards) we reduce
> > the chance of it happening again.
> > >> Real freedom is not the freedoms espoused by the right wing. Real freedom is something they wouldn't know about.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> One example of 'freedom' resides in Australia, where it is now not possible to freely demonstrate, not possible to report the abuses in Manus and Nauru, and other restrictions only a rabid mob of right wing extremists in our so-called 'Lieberal' government have enacted.
> > >>
> > >
> > > -I don't call that freedom any more than -you do. Did you think I would?
> > >
> > > No. But once again, you fail to address the question of why these freedoms are curtailed.
> > >
> > Because power corrupts.......
> > The question is what form of government minimizes the amount of or
> > effect of corruption. Certainly not socialism/communism. That just
> > concentrates power in the hands of the Party elite. Even if Capitalism
> > results in concentration of power in the hands of an economic elite, is
> > that worse?
> Could capitalism be antiethical to democracy?:
>
> https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/01/27/capitalism-is-antithetical-to-democracy/

(2023 Y. upload):

"Why the Marriage Between Democracy and Capitalism is Coming Undone | Amanpour and Company"