On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 2:39:46 AM UTC+11, Herman wrote:
> On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 3:08:19 PM UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 7:35:01 PM UTC+11, Herman wrote:
> > > Obviously neither Eberle, nor Deneuve is much bothered what some geezer is saying about her online, they don't read RMCR or watch Hurwitz, it's just that you're creating an atmosphere.
>
> > I think that Mme Deneuve - I don't know about Frau Ebene - would expect to be addressed with the deference due to her status, according to the normal French rules of good manners
> You don't understand the technical point that you are not addressing either one.
> You're just making jokes about them on the internet.
> There is a big difference between talking TO someone and talking ABOUT someone.

Herman, I am a child of the 1950s, and I cannot bring myself to refer to the lady in question as either Veronika (too familiar) or Eberle (too masculine).`I think a solution might be found south of the Mason-Dixon Line where they have retained the admirable convention of adding Miss to a lady's first name. So I shall refer to her, even in writing, as Miss Veronika. Mme Deneuve, as admirers of 'Gunsmoke' will appreciate, can be Miss Kitty.

Titled women remain the exception, so far as I'm concerned, so it's Dame Felicity, not Miss Flott.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On 2/26/2023 8:53 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 2:39:46 AM UTC+11, Herman wrote:
>> On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 3:08:19 PM UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>> On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 7:35:01 PM UTC+11, Herman wrote:
>>>> Obviously neither Eberle, nor Deneuve is much bothered what some geezer is saying about her online, they don't read RMCR or watch Hurwitz, it's just that you're creating an atmosphere.
>>
>>> I think that Mme Deneuve - I don't know about Frau Ebene - would expect to be addressed with the deference due to her status, according to the normal French rules of good manners
>> You don't understand the technical point that you are not addressing either one.
>> You're just making jokes about them on the internet.
>> There is a big difference between talking TO someone and talking ABOUT someone.
>
> Herman, I am a child of the 1950s, and I cannot bring myself to refer to the lady in question as either Veronika (too familiar) or Eberle (too masculine).`I think a solution might be found south of the Mason-Dixon Line where they have retained the admirable convention of adding Miss to a lady's first name. So I shall refer to her, even in writing, as Miss Veronika. Mme Deneuve, as admirers of 'Gunsmoke' will appreciate, can be Miss Kitty.
>
> Titled women remain the exception, so far as I'm concerned, so it's Dame Felicity, not Miss Flott.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

Be careful, Andrew. You seem to think you can refer to people as you wish. Are there no "woke" enforcers down under?

On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 6:04:19 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> Be careful, Andrew. You seem to think you
> can refer to people as you wish. Are there
> no "woke" enforcers down under?

Great idea! Let's exile Herman to Canberra! ;-)

He can teach "respect" to those bogans! ;-)

dk

On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 5:53:48 PM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
> Herman, I am a child of the 1950s,

Is this a new interpretation of
the immaculate conception?

dk

I just listened to a couple of minutes of the Hurwitz review of the Eberle / Rattle cd.

At some point he introduces some kind of conspiracy theory. Youtube, home of the conspiracy theories. He reads from the booklet that the Beethoven recording or the concerts were sponsored by a couple of cultural philantropies, such as the Anja Fichte Stiftung.
"In other words, they were HIRED," implying they did not feel like this otherwise. This would make it an uninspired performance. And he uses this conspiracy theory to bash the recording, as if he needed more material other than that Rattle is the conductor.

Virtually ALL RECORDINGS have sponsors of this kind. This is the 21st century.
Classical music performance is unsustainable without this kind of financial support.
Every concert, every note played in America's concert halls is thus sponsored by old rich people sitting on the board.
Fortunately, in Europe it's not just old rich people.
Hurwitz is fully aware of this, however maliciously uses the information on the booklet to bash yet another Rattle recording.
Obviously, the concert was programmed first and financial support for the recording was rustled up later. This is how it works. Hurwitz knows this, but he pretends he knows better.

Let me add that I have no desire to listen to another LvB VC recording, it's not a favorite of mine. However VE is a fine violin player and the way you guys go after her like zombies just because Hurwitz says so, says a lot about the culture these days.
It's all youtube.
Listen to one minute and bash.

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 1:04:19 PM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 2/26/2023 8:53 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 2:39:46 AM UTC+11, Herman wrote:
> >> On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 3:08:19 PM UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 7:35:01 PM UTC+11, Herman wrote:
> >>>> Obviously neither Eberle, nor Deneuve is much bothered what some geezer is saying about her online, they don't read RMCR or watch Hurwitz, it's just that you're creating an atmosphere.
> >>
> >>> I think that Mme Deneuve - I don't know about Frau Ebene - would expect to be addressed with the deference due to her status, according to the normal French rules of good manners
> >> You don't understand the technical point that you are not addressing either one.
> >> You're just making jokes about them on the internet.
> >> There is a big difference between talking TO someone and talking ABOUT someone.
> >
> > Herman, I am a child of the 1950s, and I cannot bring myself to refer to the lady in question as either Veronika (too familiar) or Eberle (too masculine).`I think a solution might be found south of the Mason-Dixon Line where they have retained the admirable convention of adding Miss to a lady's first name. So I shall refer to her, even in writing, as Miss Veronika. Mme Deneuve, as admirers of 'Gunsmoke' will appreciate, can be Miss Kitty.
> >
> > Titled women remain the exception, so far as I'm concerned, so it's Dame Felicity, not Miss Flott.
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> Be careful, Andrew. You seem to think you can refer to people as you wish.. Are there no "woke" enforcers down under?

Usage in the Australian press is fairly consistent ... "The premier of Queensland, Annastacia Palaszczuk, will announce .... Ms Palaszcziuk* has already stated that ... " Never just 'Palasciuk', and certainly not 'Tanya".
I have to admit that I don't like 'Ms' in the spoken language, redolent as it is of Them There Cotton Fields. I knew one woman in the 1980s who laughed uproariously at the idea people knowing whether she was married or not, to which most people would have replied that given the way she quite openly slept with the right people to claw her way up the hierarchy, it would have tested the wisdom of Solomon to have decided whether she was married or not, and if so, to whom. Typically of this type, her treatment of the needs of women lower in the pecking order than herself hovered between indifference and contempt.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
*This would normally be pronounced 'Palace-chook' in the area of Eastern Europe from which her family originated, but 'chook' is Australian slang for 'chicken', so she insists on pronouncing it 'Palace-shay'.

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 6:29:17 PM UTC+11, Herman wrote:
> I just listened to a couple of minutes of the Hurwitz review of the Eberle / Rattle cd.
>
> At some point he introduces some kind of conspiracy theory. Youtube, home of the conspiracy theories. He reads from the booklet that the Beethoven recording or the concerts were sponsored by a couple of cultural philantropies, such as the Anja Fichte Stiftung.
> "In other words, they were HIRED," implying they did not feel like this otherwise. This would make it an uninspired performance. And he uses this conspiracy theory to bash the recording, as if he needed more material other than that Rattle is the conductor.
>
> Virtually ALL RECORDINGS have sponsors of this kind. This is the 21st century.
> Classical music performance is unsustainable without this kind of financial support.
> Every concert, every note played in America's concert halls is thus sponsored by old rich people sitting on the board.
> Fortunately, in Europe it's not just old rich people.
> Hurwitz is fully aware of this, however maliciously uses the information on the booklet to bash yet another Rattle recording.
> Obviously, the concert was programmed first and financial support for the recording was rustled up later. This is how it works. Hurwitz knows this, but he pretends he knows better.
>
> Let me add that I have no desire to listen to another LvB VC recording, it's not a favorite of mine. However VE is a fine violin player and the way you guys go after her like zombies just because Hurwitz says so, says a lot about the culture these days.
> It's all youtube.
> Listen to one minute and bash.

Herman, I entirely agree with you about the Big D 'review' and the usual trail of sycophantic comments attached to it. These attacks are now based almost entirely on prejudice, occasionally buttressed by arguments that make no sense. Perhaps Jed Distler has asked for a raise, and Classics Today needs more money from its YouTube stream to pay for it?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 4:03:36 PM UTC+11, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 5:53:48 PM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >
> > Herman, I am a child of the 1950s,
> Is this a new interpretation of
> the immaculate conception?
>
> dk

Deek, your theology is even worse than your piany-playing! Only one person has been declared by the Vatican to have been born without the stain of original sin, and it sure ain't me ...

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 1:09:48 AM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 4:03:36 PM UTC+11, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 5:53:48 PM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > >
> > > Herman, I am a child of the 1950s,
> >
> > Is this a new interpretation of
> > the immaculate conception?
>
> Deek, your theology is even worse than your piany-playing!
> Only one person has been declared by the Vatican to have
> been born without the stain of original sin, and it sure ain't
> me ...

One can still apply. In your case, wouldn't that be to the
Archbishop of Canterbury rather than to the Vatican? I
ask the question .....

dk

On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 11:29:17 PM UTC-8, Herman wrote:
>
> I just listened to a couple of minutes of the
> Hurwitz review of the Eberle / Rattle cd.

How about listening to the actual recording?
Who cares about reviews. I ask the question.

dk

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 1:17:16 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 1:09:48 AM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 4:03:36 PM UTC+11, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 5:53:48 PM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Herman, I am a child of the 1950s,
> > >
> > > Is this a new interpretation of
> > > the immaculate conception?
> >
> > Deek, your theology is even worse than your piany-playing!
> > Only one person has been declared by the Vatican to have
> > been born without the stain of original sin, and it sure ain't
> > me ...
>
> One can still apply. In your case, wouldn't that be to the
> Archbishop of Canterbury rather than to the Vatican? I
> ask the question .....

Come to think of it, all children of the 50s could apply! ;-)

dk

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 8:17:16 PM UTC+11, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 1:09:48 AM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 4:03:36 PM UTC+11, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 5:53:48 PM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Herman, I am a child of the 1950s,
> > >
> > > Is this a new interpretation of
> > > the immaculate conception?
> >
> > Deek, your theology is even worse than your piany-playing!
> > Only one person has been declared by the Vatican to have
> > been born without the stain of original sin, and it sure ain't
> > me ...
> One can still apply. In your case, wouldn't that be to the
> Archbishop of Canterbury rather than to the Vatican? I
> ask the question .....
>
> dk

No. I give the answer ...

ac