They are tiny! They are basically the size of the TF:Cybertron Scouts, and trying to pack in a deluxe's number of moving parts. Surprisingly, no real problems with that -- everything holds together and pegs together.

They all have oversized guns. All three also have clear plastic windows that just look good -- they catch the light well, and don't just show a bunch of robot parts beneath them.

Brawn looks like the Juggernaut, from the X-Men comics. So weird to see such a rounded toy be Brawn. The vehicle mode is really strange, but kind of great -- the domed window looks like a 1960s vision of the future. I also really like that the Lee Press On Wheels are key to the transformation holding together. And in vehicle mode, the head is in a hole, semi-covered by the gun on the roof -- I was initially disappointed.

Ratchet is clearly a 1970s vision of the future. Very Space: 1999 with the windows all closely framed. Maybe Battlestar Galactica or one of the early 80s shows? It would not look out of place in something from that era -- not one of the main vehicles, but a background special episode type thing.

Wheeljack is good, a bit more modern futuristic. His rifle attaches to the roof, and has a minicon port, if you want a 20 year old play pattern.

Everyone has a good robot mode, slightly restricted articulation because of transformation (no wrist swivels). I really wish they had smoothed out the faces a bit more, even if it wouldn't be movie accurate.

They're fun. They're also different enough from everything that came before that they don't feel redundant. There's a bit of new in each one. I'm looking forward to the rest of the Bumblebee Movie toys from that 5 minute scene.

On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 3:09:00 AM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> They are tiny! They are basically the size of the TF:Cybertron Scouts, and trying to pack in a deluxe's number of moving parts. Surprisingly, no real problems with that -- everything holds together and pegs together.

At first I thought they had done Tiny Shockwave because maybe they were going to produce a Driller toy that he could be properly to scale with. But now with all these tiny versions of characters, I wonder if they're attempting to rescale, similar to what they've done with Star Wars: Mission Fleet. There's this whole series of like two-inch tall action figures along with various vehicles for them to pilot. I wonder if toys have gotten so expensive to manufacture that this was the only financially viable way to retain the vehicles-and-pilots play pattern.

I hope this doesn't affect neo-G1, because they finally, FINALLY settled into a great scaling system beginning with Siege, and it would be terrible if they were to abandon it now. If they start doing tiny Core-class versions of Warpath, Powerglide, Cosmos, etc. that make no sense in a collection with Deluxe-class Cliffjumper and Huffer, then I'll jump ship. I'll just start buying third party.

Zob (gave up on the movie toys a long time ago, so the Bumblebee toys have come much too late for me)

Zobovor <zmfts@aol.com> wrote:
> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 3:09:00 AM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
>
>> They are tiny! They are basically the size of the TF:Cybertron Scouts,
>> and trying to pack in a deluxe's number of moving parts. Surprisingly,
>> no real problems with that -- everything holds together and pegs together.
>
> At first I thought they had done Tiny Shockwave because maybe they were
> going to produce a Driller toy that he could be properly to scale with.

I figured Shockwave was just meant to be in scale with Core Class Optimus,
etc.

But now with all these tiny versions of characters, I wonder if they're
attempting to rescale, similar to what they've done with Star Wars: Mission
Fleet. There's this whole series of like two-inch tall action figures
along with various vehicles for them to pilot. I wonder if toys have
gotten so expensive to manufacture that this was the only financially
viable way to retain the vehicles-and-pilots play pattern.

There a dude on YouTube who was a toy designer for some of the he-man
classics toys. He has some things to say about that, not a lot of detail
though since it wasn’t the focus. He said it was cost, but not which cost.
He often has interesting stuff though.

https://youtu.be/20des0IpsqE

> I hope this doesn't affect neo-G1, because they finally, FINALLY settled
> into a great scaling system beginning with Siege, and it would be
> terrible if they were to abandon it now. If they start doing tiny
> Core-class versions of Warpath, Powerglide, Cosmos, etc. that make no
> sense in a collection with Deluxe-class Cliffjumper and Huffer, then I'll
> jump ship. I'll just start buying third party.

I think they might just feel tiny? Or at least tinier than they are?

BumbleBrawn is definitely tiny, almost an exact match for Cybertron Clocker
in terms of size. But BumbleBrawl should be a little smaller. And vehicle
mode is dinky as he is barely any longer than his legs.

But checking BumbleRatchet against Siege Sidewipe, he’s apparently the same
height, somehow? I think I compared him against Impactor last night, who is
slightly taller. And if they are not right next to each other I do not
believe Ratchet is the same size.

Vehicle mode Ratchet was way smaller. And smaller than Cybertron Clocker.
He folds up into a tiny box with wheels. Ratchet should be a larger toy
based on his alt-mode.

Wheeljack is about three-quarters a head shorter than our Sideswipe
standard. And again, if you take them away from each other, I would not
believe they are comparable. And about head taller than Clocker.

So, maybe a little bit smaller (or some natural variation and less
consistency), but they feel smaller than that. Way smaller. Is it the
oversized guns? All the extraneous detailing? More, but smaller moving
parts? Short person proportions? The final bit of shrinkage that makes them
no longer register as Deluxes? I have no idea.

Fall of Cybertron Megatron (or was he War for Cybertron?) feels like a
giant compared to BumbleRatchet, despite only being about a head taller.
And he is way, way bigger than BumbleJack.

Huh, BW Manterror is a little smaller than I remember. A little bigger, but
not as comically bigger as I was expecting. (The toys I have in easy reach
may not always be the best for comparison)

> Zob (gave up on the movie toys a long time ago, so the Bumblebee toys
> have come much too late for me)

Characters in new and interesting forms evocative of G1 without being a
complete retread is really fun to me. Not sure it seems like your thing, to
be honest.

I wasn’t expecting to get any, but then warmed up to Ratchet’s very early
80s sci-if look.

On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 12:29:16 AM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> There a dude on YouTube who was a toy designer for some of the he-man
> classics toys. He has some things to say about that, not a lot of detail
> though since it wasn’t the focus.

That's totally the guy whose theory I was referencing! I didn't think anybody here would know who I was talking about, but apparently I'm in good company. I watch his stuff a lot lately. I love what he has to say about the toy industry.

> But checking BumbleRatchet against Siege Sidewipe, he’s apparently the same
> height, somehow? I think I compared him against Impactor last night, who is
> slightly taller.

Well, Impactor was deliberately made bigger than a normal Deluxe, so I wouldn't use him as a yardstick.

> So, maybe a little bit smaller (or some natural variation and less
> consistency), but they feel smaller than that. Way smaller. Is it the
> oversized guns? All the extraneous detailing? More, but smaller moving
> parts? Short person proportions? The final bit of shrinkage that makes them
> no longer register as Deluxes? I have no idea.

So far, all I've seen at retail is Ravage and Shockwave. I'll have to conduct my own analysis, or at least as much as I can without actually buying and opening the others.

> Characters in new and interesting forms evocative of G1 without being a
> complete retread is really fun to me. Not sure it seems like your thing, to
> be honest.

Apparently, the way my brain works is that there's a little switch that has two settings. Once it gets flipped to I Like This, then I'm ready to go all in, merchandise-wise. On more rare occasions, the switch will get flipped back to I Don't Like This Anymore, and then I'm done.

I really wanted to like the live-action movie franchise, but there are so many strikes against it. The lowbrow humor, the way it butchers the existing characters, Marky Mark, etc. Yes, the Bumblebee movie is demonstrably better, but that's a) arguably not saying much, given the low bar to hurdle and b) doesn't mean I need to own the toys. I'm sure I'll see Rise of the Beasts when it comes out, but honestly I'm prepared for it to butcher Beast Wars the same way the first batch of films butchered G1. I have very low expectations about future films.

The sad truth is that most reboot films aren't made for die-hard fans. They're made for casual moviegoers who kinda-sorta remember the source material and go, "Oh, yeah, that used to be a thing, didn't it?"

(There's a Chip n' Dale Rescue Rangers movie coming out soon that looks like it got ran through an "Amazing World of Gumball" filter. One by one, they are systematically modernizing and ruining everything that existed during my childhood.)
> I wasn’t expecting to get any, but then warmed up to Ratchet’s very early
> 80s sci-fi look.

Every time I see pictures of Ratchet, I think of this thing:

https://www.motor1.com/news/519732/space-rover-jeff-dunham-video/

Zob (and the fact that Tress MacNeille and Corey Burton are not doing the voices of Chip and Dale is a crime against humanity)

Zobovor <zmfts@aol.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 12:29:16 AM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the
> Seattle Wombats wrote:

>> So, maybe a little bit smaller (or some natural variation and less
>> consistency), but they feel smaller than that. Way smaller. Is it the
>> oversized guns? All the extraneous detailing? More, but smaller moving
>> parts? Short person proportions? The final bit of shrinkage that makes them
>> no longer register as Deluxes? I have no idea.
>
> So far, all I've seen at retail is Ravage and Shockwave. I'll have to
> conduct my own analysis, or at least as much as I can without actually
> buying and opening the others.

Aren’t those Core Class anyway?

>> Characters in new and interesting forms evocative of G1 without being a
>> complete retread is really fun to me. Not sure it seems like your thing, to
>> be honest.
>
> Apparently, the way my brain works is that there's a little switch that
> has two settings. Once it gets flipped to I Like This, then I'm ready to
> go all in, merchandise-wise. On more rare occasions, the switch will get
> flipped back to I Don't Like This Anymore, and then I'm done.
>
> I really wanted to like the live-action movie franchise, but there are so
> many strikes against it. The lowbrow humor, the way it butchers the
> existing characters, Marky Mark, etc. Yes, the Bumblebee movie is
> demonstrably better, but that's a) arguably not saying much, given the
> low bar to hurdle and b) doesn't mean I need to own the toys.

They are also toys from a 8 minute sequence at the beginning of the movie
who got no characterization, but which generated an instant burst of
nostalgia from fans.

Overall the Bumblebee movie was a lot closer to what of fans would have
liked, even if they didn’t realize it and in fact criticized the original
leaks that the 2007 movie was going to be about a boy and his car.

Had the original movie followed the boy and his car pattern rather than
Michael Bay Extravaganza, I honestly cannot imagine where we would be now.
Was Bumblebee a moderate success because people had a bad taste in their
mouths from the Michael Bay movies, or is that the natural audience level
for that type of movie?

Michael Bay should have been in charge of the GI Joe movies. He would have
been a much better fit there. Unless someone finally realized that GI Joe
needs to be a musical with songs from the Village People. “Mama Mia,” but
with explosions.

> I'm sure I'll see Rise of the Beasts when it comes out, but honestly I'm
> prepared for it to butcher Beast Wars the same way the first batch of
> films butchered G1. I have very low expectations about future films.

Rise Of The Beasts That Aren’t Dinosaurs is set in modern day, so it really
shouldn’t be anything like Beast Wars enough to butcher it.

If it starts on Prehistoric Earth with Dinobots looking up at a meteor, and
a little robotic rat seeing them and scurrying into a cave, I will be
happy.

> The sad truth is that most reboot films aren't made for die-hard fans.
> They're made for casual moviegoers who kinda-sorta remember the source
> material and go, "Oh, yeah, that used to be a thing, didn't it?"

Are there any reboots more beloved than the original?

“The Silence Of The Lambs” was effectively a reboot of Michael Man’s
whatever movie (Manhunter? Red Dragon? Imagine a Hannibal Lector story in
the style of Miami Vice… it is awesome, kind of)

“Battlestar Galactica” perhaps.

> (There's a Chip n' Dale Rescue Rangers movie coming out soon that looks
> like it got ran through an "Amazing World of Gumball" filter. One by
> one, they are systematically modernizing and ruining everything that
> existed during my childhood.)
>
>> I wasn’t expecting to get any, but then warmed up to Ratchet’s very early
>> 80s sci-fi look.
>
> Every time I see pictures of Ratchet, I think of this thing:
>
> https://www.motor1.com/news/519732/space-rover-jeff-dunham-video/

I love that thing.

>
> Zob (and the fact that Tress MacNeille and Corey Burton are not doing the
> voices of Chip and Dale is a crime against humanity)
>

On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 2:09:00 AM UTC-8, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> And in vehicle mode, the head is in a hole, semi-covered by the gun on the roof -- I was initially disappointed.

There's already a kit for that:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284674499617