On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:20:35 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> Bach, Schubert etc are all wonderful but I hardly see any posts about Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky, Bartok etc, let alone more modern music.
>
> This huge emphasis on classical/romantic leaves me not wanting to participate much - my usual listening repertoire is more modern.

Andy's valiant effort to push RMCR into an awareness it's 2023 having failed utterly, I would suggest that discussions about the German Soul vs Russian late romantic music stay in the old topic.

Having briefly talked about a 2018 violin concerto (Widmann), I'm going to nominate Britten's third string quartet, La Serenissima, from the early 1970s. A wonderful work, one of the last things Britten composed.

I'm posting the Belcea Quartet link here. The Passacaglia starts at 21:00 with the cello tolling the funeral bells.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CneT4PGOHRo

This is not going to be the busiest topic if it stays on topic, however if Andy and Todd feel like posting about their interests it could be... interesting.

Herman schrieb am Mittwoch, 17. Mai 2023 um 09:41:09 UTC+2:
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:20:35 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> > Bach, Schubert etc are all wonderful but I hardly see any posts about Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky, Bartok etc, let alone more modern music.
> >
> > This huge emphasis on classical/romantic leaves me not wanting to participate much - my usual listening repertoire is more modern.
>
> Andy's valiant effort to push RMCR into an awareness it's 2023 having failed utterly, I would suggest that discussions about the German Soul vs Russian late romantic music stay in the old topic.
>
> Having briefly talked about a 2018 violin concerto (Widmann), I'm going to nominate Britten's third string quartet, La Serenissima, from the early 1970s. A wonderful work, one of the last things Britten composed.
>
> I'm posting the Belcea Quartet link here. The Passacaglia starts at 21:00 with the cello tolling the funeral bells.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CneT4PGOHRo

Some newer composers (even though they don't seem - just like w Britten - that it's 2023; but at least 1940+ I guess) that I listened to recently, but didn't like too much (same w Britten):

Klaus Huber - Tenebrae for large orchestra:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpxFOUJtWvQ

Karel Goeyvaerts - Sonata for two pianos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDDFbMKde-c

I also recently relistened to Christophe Betrand - Vertigo for two pianos and orchestra (which was posted by Dan a few years ago):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unp0spwY6Ww

He seems to be carrying on Messiaen and Boulez or sth... and maybe even Herrmann

Herman schrieb am Mittwoch, 17. Mai 2023 um 09:43:01 UTC+2:
> This is not going to be the busiest topic if it stays on topic, however if Andy and Todd feel like posting about their interests it could be... interesting.

I could help you make it a busy topic, by telling you about my favourite composers of the 20th and 21st century... and how bad I think most of the composers post 1940 are...

Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 17. Mai 2023 um 10:55:53 UTC+2:
> Herman schrieb am Mittwoch, 17. Mai 2023 um 09:41:09 UTC+2:
> > On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:20:35 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > Bach, Schubert etc are all wonderful but I hardly see any posts about Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky, Bartok etc, let alone more modern music.
> > >
> > > This huge emphasis on classical/romantic leaves me not wanting to participate much - my usual listening repertoire is more modern.
> >
> > Andy's valiant effort to push RMCR into an awareness it's 2023 having failed utterly, I would suggest that discussions about the German Soul vs Russian late romantic music stay in the old topic.
> >
> > Having briefly talked about a 2018 violin concerto (Widmann), I'm going to nominate Britten's third string quartet, La Serenissima, from the early 1970s. A wonderful work, one of the last things Britten composed.
> >
> > I'm posting the Belcea Quartet link here. The Passacaglia starts at 21:00 with the cello tolling the funeral bells.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CneT4PGOHRo
> Some newer composers (even though they don't seem - just like w Britten - that it's 2023; but at least 1940+ I guess) that I listened to recently, but didn't like too much (same w Britten):
>
> Klaus Huber - Tenebrae for large orchestra:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpxFOUJtWvQ
>
> Karel Goeyvaerts - Sonata for two pianos:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDDFbMKde-c
>
> I also recently relistened to Christophe Betrand - Vertigo for two pianos and orchestra (which was posted by Dan a few years ago):

*this would fit 2023 more I guess...

>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unp0spwY6Ww
>
> He seems to be carrying on Messiaen and Boulez or sth... and maybe even Herrmann

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:41:09 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:20:35 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> > Bach, Schubert etc are all wonderful but I hardly
> > see any posts about Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky,
> > Bartok etc, let alone more modern music.
> >
> > This huge emphasis on classical/romantic leaves
> > me not wanting to participate much - my usual
> > listening repertoire is more modern.
>
> Andy's valiant effort to push RMCR into an awareness
> it's 2023 having failed utterly, I would suggest that
> discussions about the German Soul vs Russian late
> romantic music stay in the old topic.
>
> Having briefly talked about a 2018 violin concerto
> (Widmann), I'm going to nominate Britten's third
> string quartet, La Serenissima, from the early 1970s.
> A wonderful work, one of the last things Britten
> composed.

Ignoring as usual non-European music. Do yourself
a favor and listen to

Toru Takemitsu:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=toru+takemitsu

Akira Ifukube:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=akira+ifukube

Sadao Bekku:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sadao+bekku

Yasushi Akutagawa:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yasushi+akutagawa

Takashi Yoshimatsui:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Takashi+Yoshimatsu

dk

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:43:01 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
>
> This is not going to be the busiest topic if it stays on
> topic, however if Andy and Todd feel like posting
> about their interests it could be... interesting.

Most of Weinberg's works were written after 1940:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Mieczys%C5%82aw+Weinberg

dk

Doesn't have to be post 1940 - for me it's basically 20th Century. So many riches here that I rarely feel the need to go back to previous periods. If I do it's likely to be Bach, Beethoven, Schubert, Dvorak and Wagner. Don't listen to anything before Bach, burned out on Chopin and Schumann, never like Mozart much.

Some 20th century favourites:

de Falla - 7 Popular Spanish Songs 1914
de Falla - Nights in the Gardens of Spain - 1916
de Falla - 3 Cornered Hat 1919
de Falla - El Amor Brujo 1925
Hindemith - Mathis Der Maler 1934
Bartok - Quartet 4 - 1928
Bartok - MFSPC - 1938
Janacek - All his operas, On an Overgrown Path 1911
Stravinsky - Everything, especially later
Sibelius - 7 Symphonies up to 1924
Prokofiev - Many favourites including Piano Sonatas up to 1947 (#9)
Shostakovich - Many favourites
Richard Strauss - Songs
Debussy - Everything
Ravel - Everything
Faure - Requiem and other works
Kodaly - Orchestral works
Messiaen - Organ and piano works
Takamitsu - November Steps etc
Rachmaninov - Piano and orchestral
Poulenc - piano works
Scriabin - piano works

I'd also cite the great songwriters of the 20th century:
George Gershwin
Irving Berlin
Richard Rogers
Jerome Kern
Harold Arlen
Cole Porter
Frederick Loewe
Victor Young
Jimmy Van Heusen
Burt Bacharach
Vernon Duke
Jule Styne
Duke Ellington
Henry Mancini
Vincent Youmans
Kurt Weill
Bob Dylan
The Beatles
Joni Mitchell
Steely Dan/Donald Fagen

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:28:47 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> Doesn't have to be post 1940 - for me it's basically 20th Century.

That's why I changed the title. Otherwise you get late-romantic that just happens to have been published or composed in the early 20th century.

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 8:41:09 AM UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:20:35 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> > Bach, Schubert etc are all wonderful but I hardly see any posts about Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky, Bartok etc, let alone more modern music.
> >
> > This huge emphasis on classical/romantic leaves me not wanting to participate much - my usual listening repertoire is more modern.
>
> Andy's valiant effort to push RMCR into an awareness it's 2023 having failed utterly, I would suggest that discussions about the German Soul vs Russian late romantic music stay in the old topic.
>
> Having briefly talked about a 2018 violin concerto (Widmann), I'm going to nominate Britten's third string quartet, La Serenissima, from the early 1970s. A wonderful work, one of the last things Britten composed.
>
> I'm posting the Belcea Quartet link here. The Passacaglia starts at 21:00 with the cello tolling the funeral bells.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CneT4PGOHRo

One thing you might want to think about Herman is whether there's a sort of continuous "line of development" from Scriabin and Debussy, through Messiaen, to Murail and Dufourt.

There are lots of other links to think about -- between Schumann and Wolfgang Rihm, for example, at least in his Fremde Szenen and the third string quartet.

On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 11:51:39 UTC+1, Herman wrote:

> That's why I changed the title. Otherwise you get late-romantic that just happens to have been published or composed in the early 20th century.

The only "late romantic composers" in my list I'd say were R.Strauss, Scriabin and Rachmaninov.

I'd say the rest were "modern", even including Sibelius, Prokofiev and Shostakovich. Don't know if you'd agree with that.

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:59:12 PM UTC+2, Mandryka wrote:
>
> One thing you might want to think about Herman is whether there's a sort of continuous "line of development" from Scriabin and Debussy, through Messiaen, to Murail and Dufourt.
>
> There are lots of other links to think about -- between Schumann and Wolfgang Rihm, for example, at least in his Fremde Szenen and the third string quartet.

I know. I just note that many participants have problems getting beyond the romantic and late-romantic model. So I thought let there be one topic that attempts to do so.

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:59:12 PM UTC+2, Mandryka wrote:
>
>
> There are lots of other links to think about -- between Schumann and Wolfgang Rihm, for example, at least in his Fremde Szenen and the third string quartet.

Obviously Jorg Widmann is on that Schumann - Rihm line, too.
He's talked about this a lot.

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:00:42 PM UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 11:51:39 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
>
> > That's why I changed the title. Otherwise you get late-romantic that just happens to have been published or composed in the early 20th century.
> The only "late romantic composers" in my list I'd say were R.Strauss, Scriabin and Rachmaninov.
>
> I'd say the rest were "modern", even including Sibelius, Prokofiev and Shostakovich. Don't know if you'd agree with that.

I don't. I don't see how anyone can call Frau ohne Schatten romantic, or the Scriabin op 69 preludes. I don't know enough about Sibelius and Prokofiev and Shostakovich to comment.

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:04:19 PM UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:59:12 PM UTC+2, Mandryka wrote:
> >
> >
> > There are lots of other links to think about -- between Schumann and Wolfgang Rihm, for example, at least in his Fremde Szenen and the third string quartet.
> Obviously Jorg Widmann is on that Schumann - Rihm line, too.
> He's talked about this a lot.

To a great extent the terms are so slippery it's hard to make any judgements. I mean, I think that if Wolf is late romantic then so is Rihm in, for example, Das Rot.

(Listening right now to Eisler. Where would he fall in these categories? Meaningless question.)

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 1:09:25 PM UTC+2, Mandryka wrote:
>
>
> (Listening right now to Eisler.)

Totally cool. I know the name Hanns Eisler because of the music school in (formerly Eastern) Berlin, a place where a lot of good violinists and string quartets got started.

So I listened to a couple of his songs, usually called Ernste Gesaenge.

Herman schrieb am Mittwoch, 17. Mai 2023 um 13:23:46 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 1:09:25 PM UTC+2, Mandryka wrote:
> >
> >
> > (Listening right now to Eisler.)
>
> Totally cool. I know the name Hanns Eisler because of the music school in (formerly Eastern) Berlin, a place where a lot of good violinists and string quartets got started.

I know him from "Deutsche Sinfonie"... not a favourite of mine...

>
> So I listened to a couple of his songs, usually called Ernste Gesaenge.

Ellen Fullman and her 21m long string instrument:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTr_ijfwxAI

On Wed, May 17 2023, Andy Evans <performanceandmedia@gmail.com> wrote:

> Doesn't have to be post 1940 - for me it's basically 20th Century. So
> many riches here that I rarely feel the need to go back to previous
> periods. If I do it's likely to be Bach, Beethoven, Schubert, Dvorak
> and Wagner. Don't listen to anything before Bach, burned out on Chopin
> and Schumann, never like Mozart much.
>
> Some 20th century favourites:
>
> de Falla - 7 Popular Spanish Songs 1914
> de Falla - Nights in the Gardens of Spain - 1916
> de Falla - 3 Cornered Hat 1919
> de Falla - El Amor Brujo 1925
> Hindemith - Mathis Der Maler 1934
> Bartok - Quartet 4 - 1928
> Bartok - MFSPC - 1938
> Janacek - All his operas, On an Overgrown Path 1911
> Stravinsky - Everything, especially later
> Sibelius - 7 Symphonies up to 1924
> Prokofiev - Many favourites including Piano Sonatas up to 1947 (#9)
> Shostakovich - Many favourites
> Richard Strauss - Songs
> Debussy - Everything
> Ravel - Everything
> Faure - Requiem and other works
> Kodaly - Orchestral works
> Messiaen - Organ and piano works
> Takamitsu - November Steps etc
> Rachmaninov - Piano and orchestral
> Poulenc - piano works
> Scriabin - piano works
>
Henze symphonies (well the later ones)
Fauré (if Janacek is in this list..) the spare late piano works

> I'd also cite the great songwriters of the 20th century:
> George Gershwin
> Irving Berlin
> Richard Rogers
> Jerome Kern
> Harold Arlen
> Cole Porter
> Frederick Loewe
> Victor Young
> Jimmy Van Heusen
> Burt Bacharach
> Vernon Duke
> Jule Styne
> Duke Ellington
> Henry Mancini
> Vincent Youmans
> Kurt Weill
> Bob Dylan
> The Beatles
> Joni Mitchell
> Steely Dan/Donald Fagen
>

not Poulenc here (I see the piano works above!)?
Gurney (maybe)
>
>

Robert
--
Robert Marshall twitter: @rajm

Kind of funny to see how butthurt Herman deleted all his posts...

Dan only needed to say "Serkin is sounds like a typewriter" for Herman to go bonkers... "You are a racist etc."

Now Herman could ofc reflect a little and ask himself if his reply is in any way true or if it is approriate... but instead of doing so, he will just delete all his posts and run crying to his mommy...