Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

"Arguments with furniture are rarely productive." -- Kehlog Albran, "The Profit"


arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

SubjectAuthor
* OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowDan Koren
`* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
 `* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowDan Koren
  `* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
   `* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowDan Koren
    `* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowDan Koren
     +* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
     |+- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
     |+* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowmswd...@gmail.com
     ||`* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowDan Koren
     || +- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
     || `* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
     ||  +* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowDan Koren
     ||  |+* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowMarc S
     ||  ||`* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowMarc S
     ||  || +- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowMarc S
     ||  || `* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowDan Koren
     ||  ||  +* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowDan Koren
     ||  ||  |`- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowMarc S
     ||  ||  `- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowMarc S
     ||  |+- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
     ||  |`* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
     ||  | `* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowmswd...@gmail.com
     ||  |  +- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
     ||  |  `- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
     ||  `* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowmswd...@gmail.com
     ||   +- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
     ||   `* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
     ||    `* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowmswd...@gmail.com
     ||     +- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
     ||     +- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
     ||     +- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
     ||     `* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
     ||      `* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowHT
     ||       `* Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowPhl Maestro
     ||        `- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowHT
     |+- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowDan Koren
     |`- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowDan Koren
     `- Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehowDan Koren

Pages:12
OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57103&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57103

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:800f:b0:75a:d124:747d with SMTP id ee15-20020a05620a800f00b0075ad124747dmr1244813qkb.1.1685083735700;
Thu, 25 May 2023 23:48:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:aa4d:0:b0:560:d237:43dc with SMTP id
z13-20020a81aa4d000000b00560d23743dcmr590824ywk.3.1685083735304; Thu, 25 May
2023 23:48:55 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 23:48:54 -0700 (PDT)
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 06:48:55 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lines: 6
 by: Dan Koren - Fri, 26 May 2023 06:48 UTC

https://youtu.be/kzL7t1m__xA

Why do idiots live longer
than intelligent people?

dk

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57125&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57125

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:4c1d:b0:625:aa48:f434 with SMTP id qh29-20020a0562144c1d00b00625aa48f434mr589201qvb.12.1685147824515;
Fri, 26 May 2023 17:37:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:7613:0:b0:55d:95b7:39d8 with SMTP id
r19-20020a817613000000b0055d95b739d8mr2081941ywc.7.1685147824206; Fri, 26 May
2023 17:37:04 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 17:37:03 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:41:c200:c2d0:e447:245c:a144:7601;
posting-account=lgMvBQoAAAAHXAdsAFTk6WrmTosWnEjU
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:41:c200:c2d0:e447:245c:a144:7601
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: phlrdf...@gmail.com (Phl Maestro)
Injection-Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 00:37:04 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 11
 by: Phl Maestro - Sat, 27 May 2023 00:37 UTC

On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 2:48:57 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://youtu.be/kzL7t1m__xA
>
> Why do idiots live longer
> than intelligent people?
>
> dk

Written by Robert Kaplan for his 90th birthday: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/05/the-statesman/309283/

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57128&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57128

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5795:0:b0:3f6:b7c9:e448 with SMTP id v21-20020ac85795000000b003f6b7c9e448mr1094691qta.9.1685151105672;
Fri, 26 May 2023 18:31:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:cb94:0:b0:ba8:1646:c15d with SMTP id
b142-20020a25cb94000000b00ba81646c15dmr518345ybg.1.1685151105242; Fri, 26 May
2023 18:31:45 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 18:31:44 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com> <fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 01:31:45 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 22
 by: Dan Koren - Sat, 27 May 2023 01:31 UTC

On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 5:37:06 PM UTC-7, Phl Maestro wrote:
> On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 2:48:57 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > https://youtu.be/kzL7t1m__xA
> >
> > Why do idiots live longer
> > than intelligent people?
>
> Written by Robert Kaplan
> for his 90th birthday:
>
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/05/the-statesman/309283/

ROTFL !!!

Kissmyassinger and his buddy
Dick Not a Crook Nixon made
some of the worst blunders in
foreign policy any "statesmen"
ever made. We are still paying
the price today.

dk

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57131&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57131

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:3943:b0:74a:d2b0:42cb with SMTP id qs3-20020a05620a394300b0074ad2b042cbmr538885qkn.2.1685159251493;
Fri, 26 May 2023 20:47:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:c84d:0:b0:561:878a:687e with SMTP id
k13-20020a81c84d000000b00561878a687emr2231148ywl.3.1685159251207; Fri, 26 May
2023 20:47:31 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 20:47:30 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:41:c200:c2d0:c4ee:694b:945b:2fce;
posting-account=lgMvBQoAAAAHXAdsAFTk6WrmTosWnEjU
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:41:c200:c2d0:c4ee:694b:945b:2fce
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: phlrdf...@gmail.com (Phl Maestro)
Injection-Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 03:47:31 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2532
 by: Phl Maestro - Sat, 27 May 2023 03:47 UTC

On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 9:31:47 PM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 5:37:06 PM UTC-7, Phl Maestro wrote:
> > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 2:48:57 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > https://youtu.be/kzL7t1m__xA
> > >
> > > Why do idiots live longer
> > > than intelligent people?
> >
> > Written by Robert Kaplan
> > for his 90th birthday:
> >
> > https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/05/the-statesman/309283/
> ROTFL !!!
>
> Kissmyassinger and his buddy
> Dick Not a Crook Nixon made
> some of the worst blunders in
> foreign policy any "statesmen"
> ever made. We are still paying
> the price today.
>
> dk

I can only guess what you're referring to. As to China, he had to deal with the circumstances that existed at the time. And it was correct to attempt to play China and the Soviets off against each other at that point. It was up to the series of inept post-Cold War presidents - and their chief diplomats - to deal with the post-Cold War circumstances. They obviously have screwed that up royally.

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57132&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57132

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1807:b0:3f7:f730:6b53 with SMTP id t7-20020a05622a180700b003f7f7306b53mr1174001qtc.11.1685159905475;
Fri, 26 May 2023 20:58:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:4046:0:b0:ba8:9afc:ed6f with SMTP id
n67-20020a254046000000b00ba89afced6fmr1497687yba.7.1685159904950; Fri, 26 May
2023 20:58:24 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 20:58:24 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 03:58:25 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 47
 by: Dan Koren - Sat, 27 May 2023 03:58 UTC

On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 8:47:33 PM UTC-7, Phl Maestro wrote:
> On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 9:31:47 PM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 5:37:06 PM UTC-7, Phl Maestro wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 2:48:57 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > https://youtu.be/kzL7t1m__xA
> > > >
> > > > Why do idiots live longer
> > > > than intelligent people?
> > >
> > > Written by Robert Kaplan
> > > for his 90th birthday:
> > >
> > > https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/05/the-statesman/309283/
> >
> > ROTFL !!!
> >
> > Kissmyassinger and his buddy
> > Dick Not a Crook Nixon made
> > some of the worst blunders in
> > foreign policy any "statesmen"
> > ever made. We are still paying
> > the price today.
>
> I can only guess what you're referring
> to. As to China, he had to deal with the
> circumstances that existed at the time.

The video is quite explicit about what
Kissmyassinger did, or covered up, or
made happen, that deserves contempt,
or worse.

> And it was correct to attempt to play
> China and the Soviets off against each
> other at that point.

This is not what the video was about.

Killing hundreds of thousands of
civilians in South Asia did not
accomplish anything for the US,
whether against China or Russia.

dk

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57159&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57159

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:2951:b0:759:3297:5774 with SMTP id n17-20020a05620a295100b0075932975774mr1015701qkp.8.1685219775782;
Sat, 27 May 2023 13:36:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:1684:b0:bab:e88b:1d8b with SMTP id
bx4-20020a056902168400b00babe88b1d8bmr1750830ybb.6.1685219775408; Sat, 27 May
2023 13:36:15 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!newsfeed.hasname.com!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 13:36:15 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 20:36:15 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3192
 by: Dan Koren - Sat, 27 May 2023 20:36 UTC

On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 8:58:27 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 8:47:33 PM UTC-7, Phl Maestro wrote:
> > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 9:31:47 PM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 5:37:06 PM UTC-7, Phl Maestro wrote:
> > > > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 2:48:57 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > > https://youtu.be/kzL7t1m__xA
> > > > >
> > > > > Why do idiots live longer
> > > > > than intelligent people?
> > > >
> > > > Written by Robert Kaplan
> > > > for his 90th birthday:
> > > >
> > > > https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/05/the-statesman/309283/
> > >
> > > ROTFL !!!
> > >
> > > Kissmyassinger and his buddy
> > > Dick Not a Crook Nixon made
> > > some of the worst blunders in
> > > foreign policy any "statesmen"
> > > ever made. We are still paying
> > > the price today.
> >
> > I can only guess what you're referring
> > to. As to China, he had to deal with the
> > circumstances that existed at the time.
>
> The video is quite explicit about what
> Kissmyassinger did, or covered up, or
> made happen, that deserves contempt,
> or worse.
>
> > And it was correct to attempt to play
> > China and the Soviets off against each
> > other at that point.
>
> This is not what the video was about.
>
> Killing hundreds of thousands of
> civilians in South Asia did not
> accomplish anything for the US,
> whether against China or Russia.

https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/henry-kissinger-100-us-nsa-indira-gandhi-a-bch-8632336/

Henry K. is an excrement!

dk

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57163&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57163

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4e26:0:b0:5ef:5302:9cb with SMTP id dm6-20020ad44e26000000b005ef530209cbmr850747qvb.2.1685231243215;
Sat, 27 May 2023 16:47:23 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:fc1c:0:b0:bac:7086:c9b2 with SMTP id
v28-20020a25fc1c000000b00bac7086c9b2mr2167858ybd.12.1685231242977; Sat, 27
May 2023 16:47:22 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 16:47:22 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:41:c200:c2d0:b80f:d69:1884:cc10;
posting-account=lgMvBQoAAAAHXAdsAFTk6WrmTosWnEjU
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:41:c200:c2d0:b80f:d69:1884:cc10
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: phlrdf...@gmail.com (Phl Maestro)
Injection-Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 23:47:23 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 13952
 by: Phl Maestro - Sat, 27 May 2023 23:47 UTC

In Defense of Henry Kissinger (I just noticed the Robert Kaplan piece I linked to is behind a paywall. Here are some relevant highlights):

“Like Palmerston, Henry Kissinger believes that in difficult, uncertain times—times like the 1960s and ’70s in America, when the nation’s vulnerabilities appeared to outweigh its opportunities—the preservation of the status quo should constitute the highest morality. Other, luckier political leaders might later discover opportunities to encourage liberalism where before there had been none. The trick is to maintain one’s power undiminished until that moment.
Ensuring a nation’s survival sometimes leaves tragically little room for private morality. Discovering the inapplicability of Judeo-Christian morality in certain circumstances involving affairs of state can be searing.. The rare individuals who have recognized the necessity of violating such morality, acted accordingly, and taken responsibility for their actions are among the most necessary leaders for their countries, even as they have caused great unease among generations of well-meaning intellectuals who, free of the burden of real-world bureaucratic responsibility, make choices in the abstract and treat morality as an inflexible absolute.

Fernando Pessoa, the early-20th-century Portuguese poet and existentialist writer, observed that if the strategist “thought of the darkness he cast on a thousand homes and the pain he caused in three thousand hearts,” he would be “unable to act,” and then there would be no one to save civilization from its enemies. Because many artists and intellectuals cannot accept this horrible but necessary truth, their work, Pessoa said, “serves as an outlet for the sensitivity [that] action had to leave behind.” That is ultimately why Henry Kissinger is despised in some quarters, much as Castlereagh and Palmerston were.
To be uncomfortable with Kissinger is, as Palmerston might say, only natural. But to condemn him outright verges on sanctimony, if not delusion. Kissinger has, in fact, been quite moral—provided, of course, that you accept the Cold War assumptions of the age in which he operated.
Because of the triumphalist manner in which the Cold War suddenly and unexpectedly ended, many have since viewed the West’s victory as a foregone conclusion, and therefore have tended to see the tough measures that Kissinger and others occasionally took as unwarranted. But for those in the midst of fighting the Cold War—who worked in the national-security apparatus during the long, dreary decades when nuclear confrontation seemed abundantly possible—its end was hardly foreseeable. …
… People forget what Eastern Europe was like during the Cold War, especially prior to the 1980s: the combination of secret-police terror and regime-induced poverty gave the impression of a vast, dimly lit prison yard. What kept that prison yard from expanding was mainly the projection of American power, in the form of military divisions armed with nuclear weapons. That such weapons were never used did not mean they were unnecessary. Quite the opposite, in fact: the men who planned Armageddon, far from being the Dr. Strangeloves satirized by Hollywood, were precisely the people who kept the peace. Many Baby Boomers, who lived through the Cold War but who have no personal memory of World War II, artificially separate these two conflicts. But for Kissinger, a Holocaust refugee and U.S. Army intelligence officer in occupied Germany; for General Creighton Abrams, a tank commander under George Patton in World War II and the commander of American forces in Vietnam from 1968 onward; and for General Maxwell Taylor, who parachuted into Nazi-occupied France and was later the U.S. ambassador to South Vietnam, the Cold War was a continuation of the Second World War.” …
… Meanwhile, the North Vietnamese Communists—as ruthless a group of people as the 20th century produced—murdered perhaps tens of thousands of their own citizens before the first American troops arrived in Vietnam. People forget that it was, in part, an idealistic sense of mission that helped draw us into that conflict—the same well of idealism that helped us fight World War II and that motivated our interventions in the Balkans in the 1990s. Those who fervently supported intervention in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia yet fail to comprehend the similar logic that led us into Vietnam are bereft of historical memory.” …

… “Nixon and Kissinger inherited from President Lyndon Johnson a situation in which almost 550,000 American troops, as well as their South Vietnamese allies (at least 1 million soldiers all told), were fighting a similar number of North Vietnamese troops and guerrillas. On the home front, demonstrators—drawn in large part from the nation’s economic and educational elite—were demanding that the United States withdraw all its troops virtually immediately. …
In the face of liberal capitulation, a conservative flight from reality, and North Vietnam’s relentlessness, Kissinger’s task was to withdraw from the region in a way that did not betray America’s South Vietnamese allies. In doing so, he sought to preserve America’s powerful reputation, which was crucial for dealing with China and the Soviet Union, as well as the nations of the Middle East and Latin America. Sir Michael Howard, the eminent British war historian, notes that the balance-of-power ethos to which Kissinger subscribes represents the middle ground between “optimistic American ecumenicism” (the basis for many global-disarmament movements) and the “war culture” of the American Wild West (in recent times associated with President George W. Bush). This ethos was never cynical or amoral, as the post–Cold War generation has tended to assert. Rather, it evinced a timeless and enlightened principle of statesmanship.
,,, Within two years, Nixon and Kissinger reduced the number of American troops in Vietnam to 156,800; the last ground ­combat forces left three and a half years after Nixon took office. …
… “That successful troop withdrawal was facilitated by a bombing incursion into Cambodia—primarily into areas replete with North Vietnamese military redoubts and small civilian populations, over which the Cambodian government had little control. The bombing, called “secret” by the media, was public knowledge during 90 percent of the time it was carried out, wrote Samuel Huntington, the late Harvard professor who served on President Jimmy Carter’s National Security Council. The early secrecy, he noted, was to avoid embarrassing Cambodia’s Prince Norodom Sihanouk and complicating peace talks with the North Vietnamese.
The troop withdrawals were also facilitated by aerial bombardments of North Vietnam. Victor Davis Hanson, the neoconservative historian, writes that, “far from being ineffective and indiscriminate,” as many critics of the Nixon­-Kissinger war effort later claimed, the Christmas bombings of December 1972 in particular “brought the communists back to the peace table through its destruction of just a few key installations.” Hanson may be a neoconservative, but his view is hardly a radical reinterpretation of history; in fact, he is simply reading the news accounts of the era. Soon after the Christmas bombings, Malcolm W. Browne of The New York Times found the damage to have been “grossly overstated by North Vietnamese propaganda.” Peter Ward, a reporter for The Baltimore Sun, wrote, “Evidence on the ground disproves charges of indiscriminate bombing. Several bomb loads obviously went astray into civilian residential areas, but damage there is minor, compared to the total destruction of selected targets.”
The ritualistic vehemence with which many have condemned the bombings of North Vietnam, the incursion into Cambodia, and other events betrays, in certain cases, an ignorance of the facts and of the context that informed America’s difficult decisions during Vietnam.
The troop withdrawals that Nixon and Kissinger engineered, while faster than de Gaulle’s had been from Algeria, were gradual enough to prevent complete American humiliation. This preservation of America’s global standing enabled the president and the secretary of state to manage a historic reconciliation with China, which helped provide the requisite leverage for a landmark strategic arms pact with the Soviet Union—even as, in 1970, Nixon and Kissinger’s threats to Moscow helped stop Syrian tanks from crossing farther into Jordan and toppling King Hussein. At a time when defeatism reigned, Kissinger improvised in a way that would have impressed Palmerston.”
Yes, Kissinger’s record is marked by nasty tactical miscalculations—mistakes that have spawned whole libraries of books. But the notion that the Nixon administration might have withdrawn more than 500,000 American troops from Vietnam within a few months in 1969 is problematic, especially when one considers the complexities that smaller and more gradual withdrawals in Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan later imposed on military planners.. (And that’s leaving aside the diplomatic and strategic fallout beyond Southeast Asia that America’s sudden and complete betrayal of a longtime ally would have generated.)
Despite the North Vietnamese invasion of eastern Cambodia in 1970, the U.S. Congress substantially cut aid between 1971 and 1974 to the Lon Nol regime, which had replaced Prince Sihanouk’s, and also barred the U.S. Air Force from helping Lon Nol fight against the Khmer Rouge. Future historians will consider those actions more instrumental in the 1975 Khmer Rouge takeover of Cambodia than Nixon’s bombing of sparsely populated regions of Cambodia six years earlier.
When Saigon fell to the Communists, in April of 1975, it was after a heavily Democratic Congress drastically cut aid to the South Vietnamese. The regime might not have survived even if Congress had not cut aid so severely. But that cutoff, one should recall, was not merely a statement about South Vietnam’s hopelessness; it was a consequence of Watergate, in which Nixon eviscerated his own influence in the capital, and seriously undermined Gerald Ford’s incoming administration. Kissinger’s own words in Ending the Vietnam War deserve to echo through the ages:
None of us could imagine that a collapse of presidential authority would follow the expected sweeping electoral victory [of Nixon in 1972]. We were convinced that we were working on an agreement that could be sustained by our South Vietnamese allies with American help against an all-­out invasion. Protesters could speak of Vietnam in terms of the excesses of an aberrant society, but when my colleagues and I thought of Vietnam, it was in terms of dedicated men and women—soldiers and Foreign Service officers—who had struggled and suffered there and of our Vietnamese associates now condemned to face an uncertain but surely painful fate. These Americans had honestly believed that they were defending the cause of freedom against a brutal enemy in treacherous jungles and distant rice paddies. Vilified by the media, assailed in Congress, and ridiculed by the protest movement, they had sustained America’s idealistic tradition, risking their lives and expending their youth on a struggle that American leadership groups had initiated, then abandoned, and finally disdained.”


Click here to read the complete article
Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<36f8a56a-693e-42ce-b7b6-139d25fb6691n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57164&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57164

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:296:b0:3f6:db71:4898 with SMTP id z22-20020a05622a029600b003f6db714898mr1599519qtw.11.1685232766030;
Sat, 27 May 2023 17:12:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:2f17:0:b0:ba8:94ed:55d1 with SMTP id
v23-20020a252f17000000b00ba894ed55d1mr3381981ybv.11.1685232765810; Sat, 27
May 2023 17:12:45 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 17:12:45 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:41:c200:c2d0:b80f:d69:1884:cc10;
posting-account=lgMvBQoAAAAHXAdsAFTk6WrmTosWnEjU
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:41:c200:c2d0:b80f:d69:1884:cc10
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <36f8a56a-693e-42ce-b7b6-139d25fb6691n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: phlrdf...@gmail.com (Phl Maestro)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 00:12:46 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2023
 by: Phl Maestro - Sun, 28 May 2023 00:12 UTC

Kissinger of course wrote many books. The one I most strongly recommend is "Diplomacy." It's his explanation of the past 500 years of international affairs/geopolitics - up through the 1990s. It's undoubtedly one of the most interesting and informative books I've ever read.

https://www.amazon.com/Diplomacy-Henry-Kissinger/dp/067165991X/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1685232713&sr=1-1

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57165&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57165

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:144b:b0:3f6:b1ff:3b9b with SMTP id v11-20020a05622a144b00b003f6b1ff3b9bmr1714381qtx.9.1685234935657;
Sat, 27 May 2023 17:48:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:ab4b:0:b0:bad:2828:479 with SMTP id
u69-20020a25ab4b000000b00bad28280479mr1987515ybi.6.1685234935399; Sat, 27 May
2023 17:48:55 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 17:48:55 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=207.237.223.189; posting-account=icZ_5AoAAACckOFfQwQfVYc08J4SqHq6
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.237.223.189
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: mswdes...@gmail.com (mswd...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 00:48:55 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 16253
 by: mswd...@gmail.com - Sun, 28 May 2023 00:48 UTC

On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 6:47:25 PM UTC-5, Phl Maestro wrote:
> In Defense of Henry Kissinger (I just noticed the Robert Kaplan piece I linked to is behind a paywall. Here are some relevant highlights):
>
> “Like Palmerston, Henry Kissinger believes that in difficult, uncertain times—times like the 1960s and ’70s in America, when the nation’s vulnerabilities appeared to outweigh its opportunities—the preservation of the status quo should constitute the highest morality. Other, luckier political leaders might later discover opportunities to encourage liberalism where before there had been none. The trick is to maintain one’s power undiminished until that moment.
> Ensuring a nation’s survival sometimes leaves tragically little room for private morality. Discovering the inapplicability of Judeo-Christian morality in certain circumstances involving affairs of state can be searing. The rare individuals who have recognized the necessity of violating such morality, acted accordingly, and taken responsibility for their actions are among the most necessary leaders for their countries, even as they have caused great unease among generations of well-meaning intellectuals who, free of the burden of real-world bureaucratic responsibility, make choices in the abstract and treat morality as an inflexible absolute.
>
> Fernando Pessoa, the early-20th-century Portuguese poet and existentialist writer, observed that if the strategist “thought of the darkness he cast on a thousand homes and the pain he caused in three thousand hearts,” he would be “unable to act,” and then there would be no one to save civilization from its enemies. Because many artists and intellectuals cannot accept this horrible but necessary truth, their work, Pessoa said, “serves as an outlet for the sensitivity [that] action had to leave behind.” That is ultimately why Henry Kissinger is despised in some quarters, much as Castlereagh and Palmerston were.
> To be uncomfortable with Kissinger is, as Palmerston might say, only natural. But to condemn him outright verges on sanctimony, if not delusion. Kissinger has, in fact, been quite moral—provided, of course, that you accept the Cold War assumptions of the age in which he operated.
> Because of the triumphalist manner in which the Cold War suddenly and unexpectedly ended, many have since viewed the West’s victory as a foregone conclusion, and therefore have tended to see the tough measures that Kissinger and others occasionally took as unwarranted. But for those in the midst of fighting the Cold War—who worked in the national-security apparatus during the long, dreary decades when nuclear confrontation seemed abundantly possible—its end was hardly foreseeable. …
> … People forget what Eastern Europe was like during the Cold War, especially prior to the 1980s: the combination of secret-police terror and regime-induced poverty gave the impression of a vast, dimly lit prison yard. What kept that prison yard from expanding was mainly the projection of American power, in the form of military divisions armed with nuclear weapons.. That such weapons were never used did not mean they were unnecessary. Quite the opposite, in fact: the men who planned Armageddon, far from being the Dr. Strangeloves satirized by Hollywood, were precisely the people who kept the peace. Many Baby Boomers, who lived through the Cold War but who have no personal memory of World War II, artificially separate these two conflicts. But for Kissinger, a Holocaust refugee and U.S. Army intelligence officer in occupied Germany; for General Creighton Abrams, a tank commander under George Patton in World War II and the commander of American forces in Vietnam from 1968 onward; and for General Maxwell Taylor, who parachuted into Nazi-occupied France and was later the U.S. ambassador to South Vietnam, the Cold War was a continuation of the Second World War.” …
> … Meanwhile, the North Vietnamese Communists—as ruthless a group of people as the 20th century produced—murdered perhaps tens of thousands of their own citizens before the first American troops arrived in Vietnam. People forget that it was, in part, an idealistic sense of mission that helped draw us into that conflict—the same well of idealism that helped us fight World War II and that motivated our interventions in the Balkans in the 1990s. Those who fervently supported intervention in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia yet fail to comprehend the similar logic that led us into Vietnam are bereft of historical memory.” …
>
> … “Nixon and Kissinger inherited from President Lyndon Johnson a situation in which almost 550,000 American troops, as well as their South Vietnamese allies (at least 1 million soldiers all told), were fighting a similar number of North Vietnamese troops and guerrillas. On the home front, demonstrators—drawn in large part from the nation’s economic and educational elite—were demanding that the United States withdraw all its troops virtually immediately. …
> In the face of liberal capitulation, a conservative flight from reality, and North Vietnam’s relentlessness, Kissinger’s task was to withdraw from the region in a way that did not betray America’s South Vietnamese allies. In doing so, he sought to preserve America’s powerful reputation, which was crucial for dealing with China and the Soviet Union, as well as the nations of the Middle East and Latin America. Sir Michael Howard, the eminent British war historian, notes that the balance-of-power ethos to which Kissinger subscribes represents the middle ground between “optimistic American ecumenicism” (the basis for many global-disarmament movements) and the “war culture” of the American Wild West (in recent times associated with President George W. Bush). This ethos was never cynical or amoral, as the post–Cold War generation has tended to assert. Rather, it evinced a timeless and enlightened principle of statesmanship.
> ,,, Within two years, Nixon and Kissinger reduced the number of American troops in Vietnam to 156,800; the last ground ­combat forces left three and a half years after Nixon took office. …
> … “That successful troop withdrawal was facilitated by a bombing incursion into Cambodia—primarily into areas replete with North Vietnamese military redoubts and small civilian populations, over which the Cambodian government had little control. The bombing, called “secret” by the media, was public knowledge during 90 percent of the time it was carried out, wrote Samuel Huntington, the late Harvard professor who served on President Jimmy Carter’s National Security Council. The early secrecy, he noted, was to avoid embarrassing Cambodia’s Prince Norodom Sihanouk and complicating peace talks with the North Vietnamese.
> The troop withdrawals were also facilitated by aerial bombardments of North Vietnam. Victor Davis Hanson, the neoconservative historian, writes that, “far from being ineffective and indiscriminate,” as many critics of the Nixon­-Kissinger war effort later claimed, the Christmas bombings of December 1972 in particular “brought the communists back to the peace table through its destruction of just a few key installations.” Hanson may be a neoconservative, but his view is hardly a radical reinterpretation of history; in fact, he is simply reading the news accounts of the era. Soon after the Christmas bombings, Malcolm W. Browne of The New York Times found the damage to have been “grossly overstated by North Vietnamese propaganda.” Peter Ward, a reporter for The Baltimore Sun, wrote, “Evidence on the ground disproves charges of indiscriminate bombing. Several bomb loads obviously went astray into civilian residential areas, but damage there is minor, compared to the total destruction of selected targets.”
> The ritualistic vehemence with which many have condemned the bombings of North Vietnam, the incursion into Cambodia, and other events betrays, in certain cases, an ignorance of the facts and of the context that informed America’s difficult decisions during Vietnam.
> The troop withdrawals that Nixon and Kissinger engineered, while faster than de Gaulle’s had been from Algeria, were gradual enough to prevent complete American humiliation. This preservation of America’s global standing enabled the president and the secretary of state to manage a historic reconciliation with China, which helped provide the requisite leverage for a landmark strategic arms pact with the Soviet Union—even as, in 1970, Nixon and Kissinger’s threats to Moscow helped stop Syrian tanks from crossing farther into Jordan and toppling King Hussein. At a time when defeatism reigned, Kissinger improvised in a way that would have impressed Palmerston.”
> Yes, Kissinger’s record is marked by nasty tactical miscalculations—mistakes that have spawned whole libraries of books. But the notion that the Nixon administration might have withdrawn more than 500,000 American troops from Vietnam within a few months in 1969 is problematic, especially when one considers the complexities that smaller and more gradual withdrawals in Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan later imposed on military planners. (And that’s leaving aside the diplomatic and strategic fallout beyond Southeast Asia that America’s sudden and complete betrayal of a longtime ally would have generated.)
> Despite the North Vietnamese invasion of eastern Cambodia in 1970, the U.S. Congress substantially cut aid between 1971 and 1974 to the Lon Nol regime, which had replaced Prince Sihanouk’s, and also barred the U.S. Air Force from helping Lon Nol fight against the Khmer Rouge. Future historians will consider those actions more instrumental in the 1975 Khmer Rouge takeover of Cambodia than Nixon’s bombing of sparsely populated regions of Cambodia six years earlier.
> When Saigon fell to the Communists, in April of 1975, it was after a heavily Democratic Congress drastically cut aid to the South Vietnamese. The regime might not have survived even if Congress had not cut aid so severely. But that cutoff, one should recall, was not merely a statement about South Vietnam’s hopelessness; it was a consequence of Watergate, in which Nixon eviscerated his own influence in the capital, and seriously undermined Gerald Ford’s incoming administration. Kissinger’s own words in Ending the Vietnam War deserve to echo through the ages:
> None of us could imagine that a collapse of presidential authority would follow the expected sweeping electoral victory [of Nixon in 1972]. We were convinced that we were working on an agreement that could be sustained by our South Vietnamese allies with American help against an all-­out invasion. Protesters could speak of Vietnam in terms of the excesses of an aberrant society, but when my colleagues and I thought of Vietnam, it was in terms of dedicated men and women—soldiers and Foreign Service officers—who had struggled and suffered there and of our Vietnamese associates now condemned to face an uncertain but surely painful fate. These Americans had honestly believed that they were defending the cause of freedom against a brutal enemy in treacherous jungles and distant rice paddies. Vilified by the media, assailed in Congress, and ridiculed by the protest movement, they had sustained America’s idealistic tradition, risking their lives and expending their youth on a struggle that American leadership groups had initiated, then abandoned, and finally disdained.”


Click here to read the complete article
Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57166&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57166

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:281:b0:3f1:fb02:8331 with SMTP id z1-20020a05622a028100b003f1fb028331mr1657588qtw.9.1685240651669;
Sat, 27 May 2023 19:24:11 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:257:0:b0:ba8:456a:fac7 with SMTP id
84-20020a250257000000b00ba8456afac7mr3582253ybc.0.1685240651294; Sat, 27 May
2023 19:24:11 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!newsfeed.hasname.com!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 19:24:10 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
<b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 02:24:11 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 1888
 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 28 May 2023 02:24 UTC

On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 5:48:57 PM UTC-7, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I wish this was five times as long:
>
> https://newrepublic.com/article/113029/robert-kaplans-terrible-incoherent-defense-henry-kissinger

Can anyone spell A-S-S-H-O-L-E ?!?

dk

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<fded788f-7b00-4116-8c5d-da81d04b8047n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57167&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57167

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:57aa:0:b0:626:df4:859a with SMTP id g10-20020ad457aa000000b006260df4859amr597911qvx.9.1685240779282;
Sat, 27 May 2023 19:26:19 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:ad1a:0:b0:54f:b56a:cd0f with SMTP id
l26-20020a81ad1a000000b0054fb56acd0fmr3691012ywh.3.1685240778939; Sat, 27 May
2023 19:26:18 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 19:26:18 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <fded788f-7b00-4116-8c5d-da81d04b8047n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 02:26:19 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 1855
 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 28 May 2023 02:26 UTC

On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 4:47:25 PM UTC-7, Phl Maestro wrote:
>
> In Defense of Henry Kissinger (I just noticed the Robert Kaplan piece
> I linked to is behind a paywall. Here are some relevant highlights):

No paywall as far as I can tell, and I do not have a subscription.

dk

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<891ebf70-bcfb-4b6a-9ef7-78b5447cfdcbn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57168&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57168

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1896:b0:3f6:b017:627e with SMTP id v22-20020a05622a189600b003f6b017627emr1691240qtc.12.1685240878175;
Sat, 27 May 2023 19:27:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a5b:90b:0:b0:ba8:4ff5:4671 with SMTP id
a11-20020a5b090b000000b00ba84ff54671mr3490093ybq.9.1685240877807; Sat, 27 May
2023 19:27:57 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 19:27:57 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <891ebf70-bcfb-4b6a-9ef7-78b5447cfdcbn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 02:27:58 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3504
 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 28 May 2023 02:27 UTC

On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 1:36:17 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 8:58:27 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 8:47:33 PM UTC-7, Phl Maestro wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 9:31:47 PM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 5:37:06 PM UTC-7, Phl Maestro wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 2:48:57 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > > > https://youtu.be/kzL7t1m__xA
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why do idiots live longer
> > > > > > than intelligent people?
> > > > >
> > > > > Written by Robert Kaplan
> > > > > for his 90th birthday:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/05/the-statesman/309283/
> > > >
> > > > ROTFL !!!
> > > >
> > > > Kissmyassinger and his buddy
> > > > Dick Not a Crook Nixon made
> > > > some of the worst blunders in
> > > > foreign policy any "statesmen"
> > > > ever made. We are still paying
> > > > the price today.
> > >
> > > I can only guess what you're referring
> > > to. As to China, he had to deal with the
> > > circumstances that existed at the time.
> >
> > The video is quite explicit about what
> > Kissmyassinger did, or covered up, or
> > made happen, that deserves contempt,
> > or worse.
> >
> > > And it was correct to attempt to play
> > > China and the Soviets off against each
> > > other at that point.
> >
> > This is not what the video was about.
> >
> > Killing hundreds of thousands of
> > civilians in South Asia did not
> > accomplish anything for the US,
> > whether against China or Russia.
>
> https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/henry-kissinger-100-us-nsa-indira-gandhi-a-bch-8632336/
>
> Henry K. is an excrement!

Possible counterpoint:
https://youtu.be/mnAo6T2JhS4

dk

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<94f846c1-ad14-4d7a-8599-4b1f5fd872f2n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57170&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57170

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5a8e:0:b0:3f6:83f0:c56a with SMTP id c14-20020ac85a8e000000b003f683f0c56amr1677612qtc.6.1685241697969;
Sat, 27 May 2023 19:41:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:ca52:0:b0:561:b7fc:7445 with SMTP id
y18-20020a81ca52000000b00561b7fc7445mr3883905ywk.1.1685241697497; Sat, 27 May
2023 19:41:37 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 19:41:37 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <94f846c1-ad14-4d7a-8599-4b1f5fd872f2n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 02:41:37 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 12
 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 28 May 2023 02:41 UTC

On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 4:47:25 PM UTC-7, Phl Maestro wrote:
>
> In Defense of Henry Kissinger

Kissmyassinger is not defensible:

"if they put Jews into gas chambers in
the Soviet Union, it is not an American
concern. Maybe a humanitarian concern.”

What an excrement!

dk

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<3d183dca-45bd-4698-8a9e-36caff7f7102n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57174&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57174

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7f10:0:b0:3f6:b055:81fd with SMTP id f16-20020ac87f10000000b003f6b05581fdmr1061600qtk.0.1685244138102;
Sat, 27 May 2023 20:22:18 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:f826:0:b0:ba8:2e68:7715 with SMTP id
u38-20020a25f826000000b00ba82e687715mr3637166ybd.2.1685244137795; Sat, 27 May
2023 20:22:17 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 20:22:17 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:41:c200:c2d0:dda:33a7:f9e2:ea66;
posting-account=lgMvBQoAAAAHXAdsAFTk6WrmTosWnEjU
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:41:c200:c2d0:dda:33a7:f9e2:ea66
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
<b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com> <c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <3d183dca-45bd-4698-8a9e-36caff7f7102n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: phlrdf...@gmail.com (Phl Maestro)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 03:22:18 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 26
 by: Phl Maestro - Sun, 28 May 2023 03:22 UTC

On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 10:24:14 PM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 5:48:57 PM UTC-7, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > I wish this was five times as long:
> >
> > https://newrepublic.com/article/113029/robert-kaplans-terrible-incoherent-defense-henry-kissinger
> Can anyone spell A-S-S-H-O-L-E ?!?
>
> dk

You guys can dump all over Kaplan all you like. None of you can touch his understanding of international affairs, let alone Kissinger's. And neither can Isaac Chotiner for that matter.

https://robertdkaplan.com/robert_d_kaplan_bio.htm

Some of your comments reveal you to be exactly the time of armchair quarterbacks who don't have any responsibility for making decisions that are going to cost lives with you being blamed no matter what you decide.

Kaplan does not think in retrospect that American involvement in Vietnam was a good idea. That needs to be separated from the manner in which the Nixon administration withdrew troops in accordance with the situation they inherited.

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<d843a36a-ada7-4acb-aa67-08cb0e8243fan@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57175&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57175

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:46a7:b0:757:8208:eaba with SMTP id bq39-20020a05620a46a700b007578208eabamr1066059qkb.10.1685244235361;
Sat, 27 May 2023 20:23:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:8f8d:0:b0:bac:6ba0:abe with SMTP id
u13-20020a258f8d000000b00bac6ba00abemr3604385ybl.10.1685244235096; Sat, 27
May 2023 20:23:55 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 20:23:54 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:41:c200:c2d0:dda:33a7:f9e2:ea66;
posting-account=lgMvBQoAAAAHXAdsAFTk6WrmTosWnEjU
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:41:c200:c2d0:dda:33a7:f9e2:ea66
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
<b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com> <c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <d843a36a-ada7-4acb-aa67-08cb0e8243fan@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: phlrdf...@gmail.com (Phl Maestro)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 03:23:55 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2812
 by: Phl Maestro - Sun, 28 May 2023 03:23 UTC

On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 10:24:14 PM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 5:48:57 PM UTC-7, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > I wish this was five times as long:
> >
> > https://newrepublic.com/article/113029/robert-kaplans-terrible-incoherent-defense-henry-kissinger
> Can anyone spell A-S-S-H-O-L-E ?!?
>
> dk

You guys can dump all over Kaplan all you like. None of you can touch his understanding of international affairs, let alone Kissinger's. And neither can Isaac Chotiner for that matter.

https://robertdkaplan.com/robert_d_kaplan_bio.htm

Some of your comments reveal you to be exactly the type of armchair quarterbacks who don't have any responsibility for making decisions that are going to cost lives with you being blamed no matter what you decide.

Kaplan does not think in retrospect that American involvement in Vietnam was a good idea. That needs to be separated from the manner in which the Nixon administration withdrew troops in accordance with the situation they inherited.

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<c1c534ca-f7c8-4569-93a1-e1310c6e6dcen@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57177&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57177

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:59c6:0:b0:3f6:a22f:a99c with SMTP id f6-20020ac859c6000000b003f6a22fa99cmr1832756qtf.6.1685248783852;
Sat, 27 May 2023 21:39:43 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:a844:0:b0:55d:9e7c:72c0 with SMTP id
f65-20020a81a844000000b0055d9e7c72c0mr2409283ywh.0.1685248783263; Sat, 27 May
2023 21:39:43 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 21:39:42 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <d843a36a-ada7-4acb-aa67-08cb0e8243fan@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
<b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com> <c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>
<d843a36a-ada7-4acb-aa67-08cb0e8243fan@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <c1c534ca-f7c8-4569-93a1-e1310c6e6dcen@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 04:39:43 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 52
 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 28 May 2023 04:39 UTC

On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 8:23:57 PM UTC-7, Phl Maestro wrote:
> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 10:24:14 PM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 5:48:57 PM UTC-7, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > I wish this was five times as long:
> > >
> > > https://newrepublic.com/article/113029/robert-kaplans-terrible-incoherent-defense-henry-kissinger
> > Can anyone spell A-S-S-H-O-L-E ?!?
>
> You guys can dump all over Kaplan all you like.

That reference was about Kissmyassinger,
not about Kaplan.

> None of you can touch his understanding of
> international affairs, let alone Kissinger's.

Of course not, and I never claimed otherwise.

> And neither can Isaac Chotiner for that matter.
>
> https://robertdkaplan.com/robert_d_kaplan_bio.htm
>
> Some of your comments reveal you to be exactly the
> type of armchair quarterbacks who don't have any
> responsibility for making decisions that are going
> to cost lives with you being blamed no matter what
> you decide.

It goes without saying we all are amrchair generals.
At the same time this does not imply no one other
than the actual generals has a right to evaluate
their decisions or count the bodies.

> Kaplan does not think in retrospect that American
> involvement in Vietnam was a good idea. That
> needs to be separated from the manner in which
> the Nixon administration withdrew troops in
> accordance with the situation they inherited.

Say what you may, there is no reasonable way
to justify killing hundreds of thousands of
innocent civilians who were not involved
in the conflict in order for the US to "save
face". At that point in time there was no
"face" left to be saved.

Henry Kissmyassinger is a war criminal.

dk

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<afe45229-0be0-4bac-a22e-dbd7b9c09a10n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57179&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57179

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:18a2:b0:3ef:499a:dd97 with SMTP id v34-20020a05622a18a200b003ef499add97mr1866308qtc.3.1685252414587;
Sat, 27 May 2023 22:40:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:84c8:0:b0:ba8:6422:bbec with SMTP id
x8-20020a2584c8000000b00ba86422bbecmr3737349ybm.4.1685252414364; Sat, 27 May
2023 22:40:14 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 22:40:14 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <c1c534ca-f7c8-4569-93a1-e1310c6e6dcen@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2003:cc:f40:ab6f:943f:56:e016:7a2e;
posting-account=Zd3N6woAAAChXcJ25uTdghyzQ3PscByS
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2003:cc:f40:ab6f:943f:56:e016:7a2e
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
<b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com> <c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>
<d843a36a-ada7-4acb-aa67-08cb0e8243fan@googlegroups.com> <c1c534ca-f7c8-4569-93a1-e1310c6e6dcen@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <afe45229-0be0-4bac-a22e-dbd7b9c09a10n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 05:40:14 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 1855
 by: Marc S - Sun, 28 May 2023 05:40 UTC

Herr Kissinger is a greater self-hating Jew than you could ever hope to be ;)

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<5b914230-eb56-49f6-b75c-f98032d1daa8n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57180&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57180

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5981:0:b0:3f4:e3d3:f8ff with SMTP id e1-20020ac85981000000b003f4e3d3f8ffmr1853092qte.4.1685252757166;
Sat, 27 May 2023 22:45:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:d154:0:b0:ba8:5bdf:2e84 with SMTP id
i81-20020a25d154000000b00ba85bdf2e84mr3722960ybg.10.1685252756940; Sat, 27
May 2023 22:45:56 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 22:45:56 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <afe45229-0be0-4bac-a22e-dbd7b9c09a10n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2003:cc:f40:ab6f:943f:56:e016:7a2e;
posting-account=Zd3N6woAAAChXcJ25uTdghyzQ3PscByS
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2003:cc:f40:ab6f:943f:56:e016:7a2e
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
<b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com> <c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>
<d843a36a-ada7-4acb-aa67-08cb0e8243fan@googlegroups.com> <c1c534ca-f7c8-4569-93a1-e1310c6e6dcen@googlegroups.com>
<afe45229-0be0-4bac-a22e-dbd7b9c09a10n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <5b914230-eb56-49f6-b75c-f98032d1daa8n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 05:45:57 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 1905
 by: Marc S - Sun, 28 May 2023 05:45 UTC

Herr Kissinger is an even greater self-hating Jew than you are, Dan...

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<147fca2c-d4cd-45d8-8dd4-f651307b2acfn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57181&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57181

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4708:b0:75b:6f79:697b with SMTP id bs8-20020a05620a470800b0075b6f79697bmr948417qkb.11.1685253621111;
Sat, 27 May 2023 23:00:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:ab13:0:b0:ba8:757c:2523 with SMTP id
u19-20020a25ab13000000b00ba8757c2523mr3805861ybi.9.1685253620785; Sat, 27 May
2023 23:00:20 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 23:00:20 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <5b914230-eb56-49f6-b75c-f98032d1daa8n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2003:cc:f40:ab6f:943f:56:e016:7a2e;
posting-account=Zd3N6woAAAChXcJ25uTdghyzQ3PscByS
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2003:cc:f40:ab6f:943f:56:e016:7a2e
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
<b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com> <c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>
<d843a36a-ada7-4acb-aa67-08cb0e8243fan@googlegroups.com> <c1c534ca-f7c8-4569-93a1-e1310c6e6dcen@googlegroups.com>
<afe45229-0be0-4bac-a22e-dbd7b9c09a10n@googlegroups.com> <5b914230-eb56-49f6-b75c-f98032d1daa8n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <147fca2c-d4cd-45d8-8dd4-f651307b2acfn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 06:00:21 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3747
 by: Marc S - Sun, 28 May 2023 06:00 UTC

Marc S schrieb am Sonntag, 28. Mai 2023 um 07:45:59 UTC+2:
> Herr Kissinger is an even greater self-hating Jew than you are, Dan...

Benjamin Ivyr for foward:

"Noting that one of Kissinger’s first actions as Secretary of State was to revoke the standard procedure allowing Jewish State Department employees holidays on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, Rabbi Lamm cited other instances where Kissinger failed to commemorate or even mention the Holocaust:

“Let us openly disassociate from [Kissinger]. He wants not to be a part of our people — its history and its destiny, its suffering and its joys. So be it. Let us never again, in our talk or in our publications, make reference to this man’s Jewishness. And let us insist that he be done with his occasional shrewd remarks to the press or to diplomats that, of course, he would not jeopardize the lives of Jews or other oppressed peoples because he too is a refugee from oppression. A man who ‘forgets’ millions of his fellow sufferers, has lost the moral right to make use of their suffering and his own refugee status in furthering his own ends… Our Kavod (honor) ultimately will be better served if Henry Kissinger will succeed in severing whatever frail and residual bonds still tie him to the House of Jacob and the Children of Israel. Let us grant him his obvious wish to be dis-united with us.”"

"As he approaches his century with no remorse or reckoning for any possible human rights offenses, Kissinger’s legacy in Jewish matters retains the aura of Shelley’s bloodhounds and human hearts."

https://forward.com/culture/470300/kissinger-at-100-if-it-were-not-for-the-accident-of-my-birth-i-would-be/

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<e7076f04-ea89-4c80-bf15-9a9021eb6fe7n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57182&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57182

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:640c:b0:75a:d124:747d with SMTP id pz12-20020a05620a640c00b0075ad124747dmr787025qkn.1.1685260365323;
Sun, 28 May 2023 00:52:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:8e06:0:b0:bac:fd27:28c1 with SMTP id
p6-20020a258e06000000b00bacfd2728c1mr3849963ybl.0.1685260364935; Sun, 28 May
2023 00:52:44 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 00:52:44 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <5b914230-eb56-49f6-b75c-f98032d1daa8n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
<b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com> <c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>
<d843a36a-ada7-4acb-aa67-08cb0e8243fan@googlegroups.com> <c1c534ca-f7c8-4569-93a1-e1310c6e6dcen@googlegroups.com>
<afe45229-0be0-4bac-a22e-dbd7b9c09a10n@googlegroups.com> <5b914230-eb56-49f6-b75c-f98032d1daa8n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <e7076f04-ea89-4c80-bf15-9a9021eb6fe7n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 07:52:45 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2119
 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 28 May 2023 07:52 UTC

On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 10:45:59 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
>
> Herr Kissinger is an even greater
> self-hating Jew than you are, Dan...

This is libel and I will sue you in a
German court.

dk

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<baedd2e3-2903-47a4-b79a-b3887ab9fdcbn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57183&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57183

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1a28:b0:3f7:ffc8:2f6c with SMTP id f40-20020a05622a1a2800b003f7ffc82f6cmr1680452qtb.5.1685260404465;
Sun, 28 May 2023 00:53:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:df04:0:b0:b9a:6508:1b5f with SMTP id
w4-20020a25df04000000b00b9a65081b5fmr2545535ybg.11.1685260404143; Sun, 28 May
2023 00:53:24 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 00:53:23 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <e7076f04-ea89-4c80-bf15-9a9021eb6fe7n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
<b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com> <c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>
<d843a36a-ada7-4acb-aa67-08cb0e8243fan@googlegroups.com> <c1c534ca-f7c8-4569-93a1-e1310c6e6dcen@googlegroups.com>
<afe45229-0be0-4bac-a22e-dbd7b9c09a10n@googlegroups.com> <5b914230-eb56-49f6-b75c-f98032d1daa8n@googlegroups.com>
<e7076f04-ea89-4c80-bf15-9a9021eb6fe7n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <baedd2e3-2903-47a4-b79a-b3887ab9fdcbn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 07:53:24 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2290
 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 28 May 2023 07:53 UTC

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 12:52:47 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 10:45:59 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> >
> > Herr Kissinger is an even greater
> > self-hating Jew than you are, Dan...
>
> This is libel and I will sue you in a
> German court.

SERIOUSLY !!!

dk

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<f062f5ba-5363-4ae7-95f9-903efc4b7878n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57186&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57186

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4510:b0:75b:161:6e62 with SMTP id t16-20020a05620a451000b0075b01616e62mr1267800qkp.5.1685261512733;
Sun, 28 May 2023 01:11:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:1341:b0:ba8:2e79:c193 with SMTP id
g1-20020a056902134100b00ba82e79c193mr2571031ybu.12.1685261512510; Sun, 28 May
2023 01:11:52 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 01:11:52 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <e7076f04-ea89-4c80-bf15-9a9021eb6fe7n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2003:cc:f40:ab6f:850a:2b18:ae0c:5244;
posting-account=Zd3N6woAAAChXcJ25uTdghyzQ3PscByS
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2003:cc:f40:ab6f:850a:2b18:ae0c:5244
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
<b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com> <c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>
<d843a36a-ada7-4acb-aa67-08cb0e8243fan@googlegroups.com> <c1c534ca-f7c8-4569-93a1-e1310c6e6dcen@googlegroups.com>
<afe45229-0be0-4bac-a22e-dbd7b9c09a10n@googlegroups.com> <5b914230-eb56-49f6-b75c-f98032d1daa8n@googlegroups.com>
<e7076f04-ea89-4c80-bf15-9a9021eb6fe7n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <f062f5ba-5363-4ae7-95f9-903efc4b7878n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 08:11:52 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2511
 by: Marc S - Sun, 28 May 2023 08:11 UTC

Dan Koren schrieb am Sonntag, 28. Mai 2023 um 09:52:47 UTC+2:
> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 10:45:59 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> >
> > Herr Kissinger is an even greater
> > self-hating Jew than you are, Dan...
> This is libel and I will sue you in a
> German court.

We can take it on to twitter, if you like.

Not sure though what you are protesting against:

a) That you are a greater self-hating Jew than Kissinger
b) That you are not a a self-hating Jew

>
> dk

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<354114d7-5748-4cd7-bb52-ff22f1d2e395n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57187&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57187

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:3185:b0:759:4381:d767 with SMTP id bi5-20020a05620a318500b007594381d767mr1128578qkb.11.1685261526763;
Sun, 28 May 2023 01:12:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:d853:0:b0:ba8:181b:2558 with SMTP id
p80-20020a25d853000000b00ba8181b2558mr3976023ybg.4.1685261526542; Sun, 28 May
2023 01:12:06 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.mixmin.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 01:12:06 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <baedd2e3-2903-47a4-b79a-b3887ab9fdcbn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2003:cc:f40:ab6f:850a:2b18:ae0c:5244;
posting-account=Zd3N6woAAAChXcJ25uTdghyzQ3PscByS
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2003:cc:f40:ab6f:850a:2b18:ae0c:5244
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
<b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com> <c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>
<d843a36a-ada7-4acb-aa67-08cb0e8243fan@googlegroups.com> <c1c534ca-f7c8-4569-93a1-e1310c6e6dcen@googlegroups.com>
<afe45229-0be0-4bac-a22e-dbd7b9c09a10n@googlegroups.com> <5b914230-eb56-49f6-b75c-f98032d1daa8n@googlegroups.com>
<e7076f04-ea89-4c80-bf15-9a9021eb6fe7n@googlegroups.com> <baedd2e3-2903-47a4-b79a-b3887ab9fdcbn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <354114d7-5748-4cd7-bb52-ff22f1d2e395n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 08:12:06 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2620
 by: Marc S - Sun, 28 May 2023 08:12 UTC

Dan Koren schrieb am Sonntag, 28. Mai 2023 um 09:53:26 UTC+2:
> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 12:52:47 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 10:45:59 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > >
> > > Herr Kissinger is an even greater
> > > self-hating Jew than you are, Dan...
> >
> > This is libel and I will sue you in a
> > German court.
> SERIOUSLY !!!

Seriously serious? This should be fun ;)

>
> dk

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<b3b77cd4-6fa0-4937-b680-62053a9054a9n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57195&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57195

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1211:b0:3ef:47d1:70f6 with SMTP id y17-20020a05622a121100b003ef47d170f6mr1801357qtx.0.1685276565222;
Sun, 28 May 2023 05:22:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:ed0a:0:b0:565:bf4b:de20 with SMTP id
k10-20020a81ed0a000000b00565bf4bde20mr3760770ywm.2.1685276564859; Sun, 28 May
2023 05:22:44 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!panix!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 05:22:44 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <d843a36a-ada7-4acb-aa67-08cb0e8243fan@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=207.237.223.189; posting-account=icZ_5AoAAACckOFfQwQfVYc08J4SqHq6
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.237.223.189
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
<b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com> <c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>
<d843a36a-ada7-4acb-aa67-08cb0e8243fan@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <b3b77cd4-6fa0-4937-b680-62053a9054a9n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: mswdes...@gmail.com (mswd...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 12:22:45 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3057
 by: mswd...@gmail.com - Sun, 28 May 2023 12:22 UTC

On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 10:23:57 PM UTC-5, Phl Maestro wrote:
> You guys can dump all over Kaplan all you like. None of you can touch his understanding of international affairs, let alone Kissinger's. And neither can Isaac Chotiner for that matter.

I can't help but notice that's no argument, just a way of saying "you are wrong."

> Some of your comments reveal you to be exactly the type of armchair quarterbacks who don't have any responsibility for making decisions that are going to cost lives with you being blamed no matter what you decide.

At this level, we are all armchair quarterbacks. But "blamed if you do, blamed if you don't" is just a dodge. Go ahead, Phil, tell us that you endorse the Chilean dictatorship and the Suharto genocide that Kissinger at minimum tacitly approved.

> Kaplan does not think in retrospect that American involvement in Vietnam was a good idea. That needs to be separated from the manner in which the Nixon administration withdrew troops in accordance with the situation they inherited.

Frankly, that's part of the problem. "We made a mistake, and being wounded by that mistake is the paramount risk, so whatever I do to defend my power at this point must be forgiven" is just an on-ramp to evil.

Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow

<2fb9162d-abf7-458e-a3e2-19f262664877n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57196&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57196

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1a0d:b0:3f6:af78:de08 with SMTP id f13-20020a05622a1a0d00b003f6af78de08mr2066584qtb.12.1685284679829;
Sun, 28 May 2023 07:37:59 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:ae4f:0:b0:565:d16b:d799 with SMTP id
g15-20020a81ae4f000000b00565d16bd799mr2494777ywk.1.1685284679596; Sun, 28 May
2023 07:37:59 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 07:37:59 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <b3b77cd4-6fa0-4937-b680-62053a9054a9n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:41:c200:c2d0:f9e8:12f0:62cb:dfef;
posting-account=lgMvBQoAAAAHXAdsAFTk6WrmTosWnEjU
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:41:c200:c2d0:f9e8:12f0:62cb:dfef
References: <9e772034-1247-4015-982f-a347b186c9cdn@googlegroups.com>
<fe7e056a-b9ef-4c48-868a-3704d79e9043n@googlegroups.com> <0e774aa7-1bd3-4af0-9137-a6fce3c7cbb6n@googlegroups.com>
<ac9d06eb-2d84-44f3-8bfe-3ab73c66c28en@googlegroups.com> <79dbdb9e-f212-4fb1-bbb8-21129f5f81d3n@googlegroups.com>
<3c9f8107-ffeb-44f4-9f4e-15f1cb0d8db9n@googlegroups.com> <1ff88cec-36cd-4f3a-bc06-5107e64802den@googlegroups.com>
<b6fe4059-823e-4caa-a723-6ef8e8f9fdd5n@googlegroups.com> <c451c0e0-500f-4c26-8c37-b12eec9d2d39n@googlegroups.com>
<d843a36a-ada7-4acb-aa67-08cb0e8243fan@googlegroups.com> <b3b77cd4-6fa0-4937-b680-62053a9054a9n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <2fb9162d-abf7-458e-a3e2-19f262664877n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Kissinger is 100 and still free, somehow
From: phlrdf...@gmail.com (Phl Maestro)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 14:37:59 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 4699
 by: Phl Maestro - Sun, 28 May 2023 14:37 UTC

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 8:22:47 AM UTC-4, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 10:23:57 PM UTC-5, Phl Maestro wrote:
> > You guys can dump all over Kaplan all you like. None of you can touch his understanding of international affairs, let alone Kissinger's. And neither can Isaac Chotiner for that matter.
> I can't help but notice that's no argument, just a way of saying "you are wrong."
> > Some of your comments reveal you to be exactly the type of armchair quarterbacks who don't have any responsibility for making decisions that are going to cost lives with you being blamed no matter what you decide.
> At this level, we are all armchair quarterbacks. But "blamed if you do, blamed if you don't" is just a dodge. Go ahead, Phil, tell us that you endorse the Chilean dictatorship and the Suharto genocide that Kissinger at minimum tacitly approved.
> > Kaplan does not think in retrospect that American involvement in Vietnam was a good idea. That needs to be separated from the manner in which the Nixon administration withdrew troops in accordance with the situation they inherited.
> Frankly, that's part of the problem. "We made a mistake, and being wounded by that mistake is the paramount risk, so whatever I do to defend my power at this point must be forgiven" is just an on-ramp to evil.

I'm well aware that individual policies Kissinger formed or carried out at Nixon's behest can be slammed as immoral or worse when viewed without context. And I certainly don't begrudge anyone who is from a family or country that was personally impacted by those policies and the actions in furtherance of them for hating Kissinger and thinking he's evil.

But one of the things I've learned from reading both Kissinger and Kaplan is that there is always a ton of context and there are always other considerations at hand when such policies are formulated - considerations that impact the lives of a lot of people and will often mean life and death for many regardless of where the policy-maker comes down. As Kaplan pointed out in his piece, someone has to make those decisions. Has there ever been a country that became and remained a great power without pissing a lot of people off in the process? Yet would the post WWII world have been better off without the U.S. being a great power? And could they have been and stayed one long enough without being willing to carry out policies that were tragic in many respects? I would argue not in the world in which we live.

We could go back and forth with you saying this policy or that policy is evil, yet it's basically meaningless without getting into all of the factors that had to be considered in making those policies. And neither of us know what they were.

Pages:12
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor