In article <0d72afba-3cbc-480e-9016-b35da23a3f88n@googlegroups.com>,
raymond....@gmail.com <raymond.hallbear1@gmail.com> wrote:
>Because nobody sensible collectively want to go back to being the
>abject serfs they once were, under the yoke of the privileged very
>few.

This was a social organization that only maintained in some parts
of the world -- which continues to attempt to install it everywhere.
Other parts of the world, now dominated, refused that sort of thing
for a very long time.

On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 22:16:07 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:

>Drastically reducing the use of fossil fuels too quickly will exactly restore the age of serfdom, with the leftist politcal elite the privileged class. Simply really.

"Too quickly....?????"

Is this for real or a joke? There is no "too quickly" in the rush to save the planet. And "leftist political elite the privileged class...."

This is just plain weird and somewhere along the road to the endlessly lying trash and garbage on conservative talk radio.

On 11/8/2022 5:29 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 22:16:07 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
>
>> Drastically reducing the use of fossil fuels too quickly will exactly restore the age of serfdom, with the leftist politcal elite the privileged class. Simply really.
>
> "Too quickly....?????"
>

Yep.

> Is this for real or a joke?

No laughing matter.

There is no "too quickly" in the rush to save the planet.

How about suddenly tomorrow morning completely ceasing use of fossil fuel? Would that qualify as too quickly? Yes? Oh, so there IS such a think as too quickly.

And "leftist political elite the privileged class...."
>

Who are the elite class in Communist regimes? The communist leadership, of course. Same idea.

> This is just plain weird and somewhere along the road to the endlessly lying trash and garbage on conservative talk radio.

Why do you think that people who disagree with you are lying? Isn't that paranoid?
>
>

On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 09:16:07 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 11/8/2022 5:01 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 06:56:26 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 11:57:00 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 2:36:47 PM UTC-4, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> >>>> In article <fbf2712b-743d-4d23...googlegroups.com>,
> >>>> JohnGavin <dag...gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> In the scheme of things, preferring Arrau to Lim is not important
> >>>>> in the least.
> >>>> I have nothing against people who prefer older performances, but I
> >>>> do get the sense that there are people who disdain all new
> >>>> interpretations (& all new music, of course), and I don't think
> >>>> that's healthy for the culture overall....
> >>>
> >>> Of course - but the comedy lies in the implication that a society is
> >>> not civilized unless it prefers one piano player over another. There
> >>> have been wars motivated by differences among denominations of
> >>> the same faith. That’s folly enough.
> >>
> >> Civilization becomes pointless and useless when it is stuck in the past
> >> and refuses to adapt to fresh new ideas and new ways of doing things.
> >> In large swaths of the Western world "civilization" stands for nothing
> >> more than "leave us alone to live as we did two centuries ago". Why
> >> should anyone put up with this?
> >
> > Because nobody sensible collectively want to go back to being the abject serfs they once were, under the yoke of the privileged very few. Simple really. And yet this is what the followers of the right wing loonies desire.
> Rubbish, It's quite the opposite. Drastically reducing the use of fossil fuels too quickly will exactly restore the age of serfdom, with the leftist politcal elite the privileged class. Simply really.

It is the right wing who desire authoritarianism, as witnessed by their fawning over Trump and other undesirables throughout the world, of countries and peoples who have decided that democracy is not for them.

> It doesn't make sense, unless they are utterly stupid.
> >
> Characterizing people who don't want change as fast as you do or don't want the exact change as loonies and wanting to restore serfdom is ridiculous..

It has nothing to do with speed. It is all about serious intent to do something for the planet and those of us who still enjoy it.

> > The fact is we are not progressive enough.
> Opinio, not fact. There is a difference

Facts are history. Intentions are everything that really matters.

Ray Hall, Taree

On 11/8/2022 6:33 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 09:16:07 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 11/8/2022 5:01 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 06:56:26 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 11:57:00 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 2:36:47 PM UTC-4, Todd M. McComb wrote:
>>>>>> In article <fbf2712b-743d-4d23...googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>> JohnGavin <dag...gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> In the scheme of things, preferring Arrau to Lim is not important
>>>>>>> in the least.
>>>>>> I have nothing against people who prefer older performances, but I
>>>>>> do get the sense that there are people who disdain all new
>>>>>> interpretations (& all new music, of course), and I don't think
>>>>>> that's healthy for the culture overall....
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course - but the comedy lies in the implication that a society is
>>>>> not civilized unless it prefers one piano player over another. There
>>>>> have been wars motivated by differences among denominations of
>>>>> the same faith. That’s folly enough.
>>>>
>>>> Civilization becomes pointless and useless when it is stuck in the past
>>>> and refuses to adapt to fresh new ideas and new ways of doing things.
>>>> In large swaths of the Western world "civilization" stands for nothing
>>>> more than "leave us alone to live as we did two centuries ago". Why
>>>> should anyone put up with this?
>>>
>>> Because nobody sensible collectively want to go back to being the abject serfs they once were, under the yoke of the privileged very few. Simple really. And yet this is what the followers of the right wing loonies desire.
>> Rubbish, It's quite the opposite. Drastically reducing the use of fossil fuels too quickly will exactly restore the age of serfdom, with the leftist politcal elite the privileged class. Simply really.
>
> It is the right wing who desire authoritarianism, as witnessed by their fawning over Trump and other undesirables throughout the world, of countries and peoples who have decided that democracy is not for them.
>
>> It doesn't make sense, unless they are utterly stupid.
>>>
>> Characterizing people who don't want change as fast as you do or don't want the exact change as loonies and wanting to restore serfdom is ridiculous.
>
> It has nothing to do with speed. It is all about serious intent to do something for the planet and those of us who still enjoy it.
>
>>> The fact is we are not progressive enough.
>> Opinio, not fact. There is a difference
>
> Facts are history. Intentions are everything that really matters.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

Yada Yada Yada.

On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 23:22:32 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
> There is no "too quickly" in the rush to save the planet.
> How about suddenly tomorrow morning completely ceasing use of fossil fuel? Would that qualify as too quickly? Yes? Oh, so there IS such a think as too quickly.

Given the gravity of the climate problem we face that's just a silly meaningless comment.

> > This is just plain weird and somewhere along the road to the endlessly lying trash and garbage on conservative talk radio.

> Why do you think that people who disagree with you are lying? Isn't that paranoid? > >

Are you serious? Conservative talk radio spouts an endless series of conspiracy theories and transparent lies, like Trump's idiotic claim that he won the election, that Biden is ultra left wing etc...... It hardly needs me to point out the lies, they're well established.

On 11/8/2022 7:02 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 23:22:32 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
>> There is no "too quickly" in the rush to save the planet.
>> How about suddenly tomorrow morning completely ceasing use of fossil fuel? Would that qualify as too quickly? Yes? Oh, so there IS such a think as too quickly.
>
> Given the gravity of the climate problem we face that's just a silly meaningless comment.
>
>>> This is just plain weird and somewhere along the road to the endlessly lying trash and garbage on conservative talk radio.
>
>> Why do you think that people who disagree with you are lying? Isn't that paranoid? > >
>
> Are you serious? Conservative talk radio spouts an endless series of conspiracy theories and transparent lies, like Trump's idiotic claim that he won the election, that Biden is ultra left wing etc...... It hardly needs me to point out the lies, they're well established.

The world is not perfectly divided into you and conservative talk radio. I don't what the latter has to do with me.
>

On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 10:47:12 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 11/8/2022 6:33 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 09:16:07 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> >> On 11/8/2022 5:01 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 06:56:26 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 11:57:00 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> >>>>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 2:36:47 PM UTC-4, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> >>>>>> In article <fbf2712b-743d-4d23...googlegroups.com>,
> >>>>>> JohnGavin <dag...gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> In the scheme of things, preferring Arrau to Lim is not important
> >>>>>>> in the least.
> >>>>>> I have nothing against people who prefer older performances, but I
> >>>>>> do get the sense that there are people who disdain all new
> >>>>>> interpretations (& all new music, of course), and I don't think
> >>>>>> that's healthy for the culture overall....
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Of course - but the comedy lies in the implication that a society is
> >>>>> not civilized unless it prefers one piano player over another. There
> >>>>> have been wars motivated by differences among denominations of
> >>>>> the same faith. That’s folly enough.
> >>>>
> >>>> Civilization becomes pointless and useless when it is stuck in the past
> >>>> and refuses to adapt to fresh new ideas and new ways of doing things..
> >>>> In large swaths of the Western world "civilization" stands for nothing
> >>>> more than "leave us alone to live as we did two centuries ago". Why
> >>>> should anyone put up with this?
> >>>
> >>> Because nobody sensible collectively want to go back to being the abject serfs they once were, under the yoke of the privileged very few. Simple really. And yet this is what the followers of the right wing loonies desire.
> >> Rubbish, It's quite the opposite. Drastically reducing the use of fossil fuels too quickly will exactly restore the age of serfdom, with the leftist politcal elite the privileged class. Simply really.
> >
> > It is the right wing who desire authoritarianism, as witnessed by their fawning over Trump and other undesirables throughout the world, of countries and peoples who have decided that democracy is not for them.
> >
> >> It doesn't make sense, unless they are utterly stupid.
> >>>
> >> Characterizing people who don't want change as fast as you do or don't want the exact change as loonies and wanting to restore serfdom is ridiculous.
> >
> > It has nothing to do with speed. It is all about serious intent to do something for the planet and those of us who still enjoy it.
> >
> >>> The fact is we are not progressive enough.
> >> Opinio, not fact. There is a difference
> >
> > Facts are history. Intentions are everything that really matters.
> >
> > Ray Hall, Taree
> Yada Yada Yada

As substantive as per usual.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:54:38 PM UTC+10:30, Marc S wrote:
> Manypeopletrytosee99 schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 10:48:43 UTC+1:
> > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 2:36:37 AM UTC+10:30, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > I am not defending Dan's "personality" at all. I object to unsupported accusations, hyperbole, exaggeration and distortion for political or personal reasons. Even when Dan does it.
> >
> >
> > Hey Dan Koren / Frank Berger. You only need one account buddy!
> > You're a genius, humanitarian and scientist that is much loved by Elohim.
> > Here are some interesting links for your exceptional mind to digest.
> >
> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.judaism.orthodox
> > https://groups.google.com/g/israelimusic
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzoah_Rotachat
> >
> > mazal tov!
> Another antisemite in this group? Oh hell no... Or is this pluted pup?
>
> Frank is not Dan, Dan is not Frank - get your head out of your ass you fucking idiot.
Another antigoyim in this group? Oh hell no...
Marc S / Dan Koren / Frank Berger, you only need one account sir.

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:54:38 PM UTC+10:30, Marc S wrote:
> Manypeopletrytosee99 schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 10:48:43 UTC+1:
> > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 2:36:37 AM UTC+10:30, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > I am not defending Dan's "personality" at all. I object to unsupported accusations, hyperbole, exaggeration and distortion for political or personal reasons. Even when Dan does it.
> >
> >
> > Hey Dan Koren / Frank Berger. You only need one account buddy!
> > You're a genius, humanitarian and scientist that is much loved by Elohim.
> > Here are some interesting links for your exceptional mind to digest.
> >
> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.judaism.orthodox
> > https://groups.google.com/g/israelimusic
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzoah_Rotachat
> >
> > mazal tov!
> Another antisemite in this group? Oh hell no... Or is this pluted pup?
>
> Frank is not Dan, Dan is not Frank - get your head out of your ass you fucking idiot.

Another antigoyim in this group? Oh hell no...
Marc S / Dan Koren / Frank Berger, you only need one account sir.

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:12:18 PM UTC+10:30, Marc S wrote:
> Manypeopletrytosee99 schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 10:48:43 UTC+1:
> > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 2:36:37 AM UTC+10:30, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > I am not defending Dan's "personality" at all. I object to unsupported accusations, hyperbole, exaggeration and distortion for political or personal reasons. Even when Dan does it.
> >
> >
> > Hey Dan Koren / Frank Berger. You only need one account buddy!
> > You're a genius, humanitarian and scientist that is much loved by Elohim.
> > Here are some interesting links for your exceptional mind to digest.
> >
> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.judaism.orthodox
> > https://groups.google.com/g/israelimusic
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzoah_Rotachat
> >
> > mazal tov!
> Here are some interesting links for your antisemitic mind to consider:
>
> How about converting to islam? Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran
> And how about joining hamas afterwards? Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
>
> You would fit in perfectly with the hamas or hezbollah people, trust me ;)

That is the spirit son! All of Israel can convert to Islam and practice interracial marriage with all the goyim!
Then the world will be a better place!!!

Mazel tov!

On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 05:07:29 -0800, Manypeopletrytosee99 wrote:

> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:54:38 PM UTC+10:30, Marc S wrote:
> > Manypeopletrytosee99 schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 10:48:43 UTC+1:
> > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 2:36:37 AM UTC+10:30, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > > I am not defending Dan's "personality" at all. I object to unsupported accusations, hyperbole, exaggeration and distortion for political or personal reasons. Even when Dan does it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey Dan Koren / Frank Berger. You only need one account buddy!
> > > You're a genius, humanitarian and scientist that is much loved by Elohim.
> > > Here are some interesting links for your exceptional mind to digest.
> > >
> > > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.judaism.orthodox
> > > https://groups.google.com/g/israelimusic
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzoah_Rotachat
> > >
> > > mazal tov!
> > Another antisemite in this group? Oh hell no... Or is this pluted pup?
> >
> > Frank is not Dan, Dan is not Frank - get your head out of your ass you fucking idiot.
>
> Another antigoyim in this group? Oh hell no...
> Marc S / Dan Koren / Frank Berger, you only need one account sir.

Jews gang up on non-Jews, that is the issue.

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 2:15:06 AM UTC-8, Manypeopletrytosee99 wrote:
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:51:47 PM UTC+10:30, gggg gggg wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:11:26 PM UTC-8, Herman wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 5:41:28 AM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Whom are you kidding? While this newsgroup is nominally about
> > > > recordings of classical music (however one defines its boundaries),
> > > > in reality it just a forum for old people to revel in reminiscing about
> > > > the recordings they heard 50+ years ago. Hardly anyone mentions
> > > > more recent performances (say, post 1990), and then often only
> > > > as pivots to point out how inferior they are to the older ones.
> > > That's a charicature. But yeah, I could do a year without the name 'Szell'. Or 'Heifetz' for that matter. (Ring a bell?) However, few people here, among them you, seem to be aware composing CM did not stop in the year 1900. I think Todd mentioned this strange phenom.
> > > >
> > > > As everyone knows, during the 4th century BC the Greeks were
> > > > bemoaning the 5th century BC when everything was so much
> > > > "better".
> > > they had a reason. If you mean 'Athens' by 'the Greeks' (which is what most people do), they had disastrously lost the war to Sparta (413); their fleet had been destroyed, and thus their empire was gone, and there had been a devastating coup by a small band of aristocrats who methodically killed whoever they could not use and took their money and land. After a little while the Macedonians came and took over. For the Athenians who wrote history or philosophy, the ones through whose lens we even know about this, life had irrevocably changed.
> > According to this 2022 book:
> >
> > - Throughout world history, the monarchs who have wielded the greatest amount of power are those who enjoy broad popular support, generally from the lower classes. Such monarchs are often spearheaded to power by overthrowing an aristocratic regime. This enables them to rule as populists in the interests of the many and against the interests of the elite. Examples include most of the Greek "tyrants" of the period 650 to 530 BCE...
> >
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=5sNdEAAAQBAJ&pg=PT344&dq=%22Throughout+world+history,+the+monarchs+who+have+wielded+the+greatest+amount+of+power%22%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZkdiw0Zv7AhXfLkQIHZU7BxUQ6AF6BAgHEAI#v=onepage&q=%22Throughout%20world%20history%2C%20the%20monarchs%20who%20have%20wielded%20the%20greatest%20amount%20of%20power%22%22&f=false
> That book lists Mao Zedong as a populist. He caused the largest famine in written history.......... Almost entirely poor peasants............

(2023 Y. upload):

"How did 80 Million People Die in Maoist China? | History of China 1955-1970 Documentary 8/10"

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 12:21:47 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:11:26 PM UTC-8, Herman wrote:
> > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 5:41:28 AM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Whom are you kidding? While this newsgroup is nominally about
> > > recordings of classical music (however one defines its boundaries),
> > > in reality it just a forum for old people to revel in reminiscing about
> > > the recordings they heard 50+ years ago. Hardly anyone mentions
> > > more recent performances (say, post 1990), and then often only
> > > as pivots to point out how inferior they are to the older ones.
> > That's a charicature. But yeah, I could do a year without the name 'Szell'. Or 'Heifetz' for that matter. (Ring a bell?) However, few people here, among them you, seem to be aware composing CM did not stop in the year 1900. I think Todd mentioned this strange phenom.
> > >
> > > As everyone knows, during the 4th century BC the Greeks were
> > > bemoaning the 5th century BC when everything was so much
> > > "better".
> > they had a reason. If you mean 'Athens' by 'the Greeks' (which is what most people do), they had disastrously lost the war to Sparta (413); their fleet had been destroyed, and thus their empire was gone, and there had been a devastating coup by a small band of aristocrats who methodically killed whoever they could not use and took their money and land. After a little while the Macedonians came and took over. For the Athenians who wrote history or philosophy, the ones through whose lens we even know about this, life had irrevocably changed.
> According to this 2022 book:
>
> - Throughout world history, the monarchs who have wielded the greatest amount of power are those who enjoy broad popular support, generally from the lower classes. Such monarchs are often spearheaded to power by overthrowing an aristocratic regime. This enables them to rule as populists in the interests of the many and against the interests of the elite. Examples include most of the Greek "tyrants" of the period 650 to 530 BCE...
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=5sNdEAAAQBAJ&pg=PT344&dq=%22Throughout+world+history,+the+monarchs+who+have+wielded+the+greatest+amount+of+power%22%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZkdiw0Zv7AhXfLkQIHZU7BxUQ6AF6BAgHEAI#v=onepage&q=%22Throughout%20world%20history%2C%20the%20monarchs%20who%20have%20wielded%20the%20greatest%20amount%20of%20power%22%22&f=false

(2023 Y. upload):

"Julius Caesar: Hero of the Proletariat - Michael Parenti’s People’s History of Rome"

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 2:15:06 AM UTC-8, Manypeopletrytosee99 wrote:
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:51:47 PM UTC+10:30, gggg gggg wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:11:26 PM UTC-8, Herman wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 5:41:28 AM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Whom are you kidding? While this newsgroup is nominally about
> > > > recordings of classical music (however one defines its boundaries),
> > > > in reality it just a forum for old people to revel in reminiscing about
> > > > the recordings they heard 50+ years ago. Hardly anyone mentions
> > > > more recent performances (say, post 1990), and then often only
> > > > as pivots to point out how inferior they are to the older ones.
> > > That's a charicature. But yeah, I could do a year without the name 'Szell'. Or 'Heifetz' for that matter. (Ring a bell?) However, few people here, among them you, seem to be aware composing CM did not stop in the year 1900. I think Todd mentioned this strange phenom.
> > > >
> > > > As everyone knows, during the 4th century BC the Greeks were
> > > > bemoaning the 5th century BC when everything was so much
> > > > "better".
> > > they had a reason. If you mean 'Athens' by 'the Greeks' (which is what most people do), they had disastrously lost the war to Sparta (413); their fleet had been destroyed, and thus their empire was gone, and there had been a devastating coup by a small band of aristocrats who methodically killed whoever they could not use and took their money and land. After a little while the Macedonians came and took over. For the Athenians who wrote history or philosophy, the ones through whose lens we even know about this, life had irrevocably changed.
> > According to this 2022 book:
> >
> > - Throughout world history, the monarchs who have wielded the greatest amount of power are those who enjoy broad popular support, generally from the lower classes. Such monarchs are often spearheaded to power by overthrowing an aristocratic regime. This enables them to rule as populists in the interests of the many and against the interests of the elite. Examples include most of the Greek "tyrants" of the period 650 to 530 BCE...
> >
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=5sNdEAAAQBAJ&pg=PT344&dq=%22Throughout+world+history,+the+monarchs+who+have+wielded+the+greatest+amount+of+power%22%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZkdiw0Zv7AhXfLkQIHZU7BxUQ6AF6BAgHEAI#v=onepage&q=%22Throughout%20world%20history%2C%20the%20monarchs%20who%20have%20wielded%20the%20greatest%20amount%20of%20power%22%22&f=false
> That book lists Mao Zedong as a populist. He caused the largest famine in written history.......... Almost entirely poor peasants............

(2023 Y. upload):

"How did 80 Million People Die in Maoist China? | History of China 1955-1970 Documentary 8/10"