Five Speculative Visions of a Future America

https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/
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On 7/14/2021 9:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five Speculative Visions of a Future America
>
> https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/

Dude, you did not mention a Heinlein book in your list ? I am shocked,
totally shocked.

I would have mentioned "Revolt in 2100" or "Methuselah's Children" at a
minimum. Or even "Stranger In A Strange Land" or the freakout "I Will
Fear No Evil".
https://www.amazon.com/Revolt-Methuselahs-Children-Robert-Heinlein/dp/0671577808/

And I have read "Warday" and "Snow Crash".

Lynn

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 3:16:29 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 7/14/2021 9:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> > Five Speculative Visions of a Future America
> >
> > https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/
> Dude, you did not mention a Heinlein book in your list ? I am shocked,
> totally shocked.
>
> I would have mentioned "Revolt in 2100"

Just a civil war, nothing to see here.

or "Methuselah's Children"

I don't recall what the state of the USA was in this book. Whatever it was I don't think it
was particularly central.

at a
> minimum. Or even "Stranger In A Strange Land" or the freakout "I Will
> Fear No Evil".

IIRC neither seems to apply. But it's been decades since I read either. And I tend not to remember books
I didn't like.

Someone pointed out in comments that the US is fractured in "Friday". But I recall nothing of
that novel, either.

In Pangborn's "Davy" not only the US but even the northeast is fractured. Kingdoms/states mentioned in the
book include Penn, Moha, Katskill, Lebannin, and Nuin. Nuber is an independent holy city. South and west of Penn is jungle, and the secretive folks of Penn aren't saying anything about that. Only religion unites them (and Penn isn't really on board even with that).

But in that book not just the US but the whole world is fractured, as in many post WWIII novels.

In Leiber's "A Spectre is haunting Texas" (also post WWIII, but a relatively mild one) the US is split into at least two and possibly three parts. Texas, which is most of the warm part of continent, some pacific state whose borders are not well stated in the book but may be the whole coast of the current US and Canada (Alaska and northern Canada are Russian) and (I think) an independent northeast.

The US is fractured in "Slaughterhouse five", but it is just a throwaway bit, to give Vonnegut another chance
to say "so it goes".

William Hyde

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> writes:
>On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 3:16:29 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 7/14/2021 9:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:=20
>> > Five Speculative Visions of a Future America=20
>> >=20
>> > https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-ame=
>rica/
>> Dude, you did not mention a Heinlein book in your list ? I am shocked,=20
>> totally shocked.=20
>>=20
>> I would have mentioned "Revolt in 2100"
>
>Just a civil war, nothing to see here.
>
> or "Methuselah's Children"
>
>I don't recall what the state of the USA was in this book. Whatever it was=
> I don't think it
>was particularly central.

IIRC it was post prophet, during which time Lazarus had been offplanet.

On 7/14/2021 3:19 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 3:16:29 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 7/14/2021 9:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> Five Speculative Visions of a Future America
>>>
>>> https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/
>> Dude, you did not mention a Heinlein book in your list ? I am shocked,
>> totally shocked.
>>
>> I would have mentioned "Revolt in 2100"
>
> Just a civil war, nothing to see here.
>
> or "Methuselah's Children"
>
> I don't recall what the state of the USA was in this book. Whatever it was I don't think it
> was particularly central.
>
> at a
>> minimum. Or even "Stranger In A Strange Land" or the freakout "I Will
>> Fear No Evil".
>
> IIRC neither seems to apply. But it's been decades since I read either. And I tend not to remember books
> I didn't like.
>
> Someone pointed out in comments that the US is fractured in "Friday". But I recall nothing of
> that novel, either.
>
> In Pangborn's "Davy" not only the US but even the northeast is fractured. Kingdoms/states mentioned in the
> book include Penn, Moha, Katskill, Lebannin, and Nuin. Nuber is an independent holy city. South and west of Penn is jungle, and the secretive folks of Penn aren't saying anything about that. Only religion unites them (and Penn isn't really on board even with that).
>
> But in that book not just the US but the whole world is fractured, as in many post WWIII novels.
>
> In Leiber's "A Spectre is haunting Texas" (also post WWIII, but a relatively mild one) the US is split into at least two and possibly three parts. Texas, which is most of the warm part of continent, some pacific state whose borders are not well stated in the book but may be the whole coast of the current US and Canada (Alaska and northern Canada are Russian) and (I think) an independent northeast.
>
> The US is fractured in "Slaughterhouse five", but it is just a throwaway bit, to give Vonnegut another chance
> to say "so it goes".
>
> William Hyde

"Revolt In 2100" is about the USA converting back from a religious
dictatorship (the prophet) to a republic by the vehicle of war, yes.

"Methuselah's Children" is about the discovery of a long term experiment
to lengthen people's lives in 2150 USA that started in 1900. The
experiment doubled the participants lives using genetic selection. The
revelation prompted the life extension project which extended generic
people's lives six fold using rejuvenation every 50 years.

"Stranger In A Strange Land" is about the return of the first Martian
born person to the 2150 USA and the subsequent unrest in the USA that
causes as people try to use him to further their interests.

"I Will Fear No Evil" is about the implanting of a old human brain into
a brain dead young person in 2150 USA and the subsequent social craziness.

Lynn

On 2021-07-14, James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:

> Five Speculative Visions of a Future America
>
> https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/

| The Pelbar Cycle by Paul O. Williams

I read those in German translation in the mid-1980s...

| A few new cultures—the Pelbar, the Shumai, the Sentani, and many
| others—dot what was once the United States (Canada, then as now, is
| “unknown territory.”)

Wait, one of the very few things I distinctly remember is that our
wandering heroes run into French speakers. That's got to be Quebec.
Or migration from Quebec. I took it as a future North America,
encompassing areas of both the former USA and Canada.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 16:08:10 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 7/14/2021 3:19 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 3:16:29 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 7/14/2021 9:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>> Five Speculative Visions of a Future America
>>>>
>>>> https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/
>>> Dude, you did not mention a Heinlein book in your list ? I am shocked,
>>> totally shocked.
>>>
>>> I would have mentioned "Revolt in 2100"
>>
>> Just a civil war, nothing to see here.
>>
>> or "Methuselah's Children"
>>
>> I don't recall what the state of the USA was in this book. Whatever it was I don't think it
>> was particularly central.
>>
>> at a
>>> minimum. Or even "Stranger In A Strange Land" or the freakout "I Will
>>> Fear No Evil".
>>
>> IIRC neither seems to apply. But it's been decades since I read either. And I tend not to remember books
>> I didn't like.
>>
>> Someone pointed out in comments that the US is fractured in "Friday". But I recall nothing of
>> that novel, either.
>>
>> In Pangborn's "Davy" not only the US but even the northeast is fractured. Kingdoms/states mentioned in the
>> book include Penn, Moha, Katskill, Lebannin, and Nuin. Nuber is an independent holy city. South and west of Penn is jungle, and the secretive folks of Penn aren't saying anything about that. Only religion unites them (and Penn isn't really on board even with that).
>>
>> But in that book not just the US but the whole world is fractured, as in many post WWIII novels.
>>
>> In Leiber's "A Spectre is haunting Texas" (also post WWIII, but a relatively mild one) the US is split into at least two and possibly three parts. Texas, which is most of the warm part of continent, some pacific state whose borders are not well stated in the book but may be the whole coast of the current US and Canada (Alaska and northern Canada are Russian) and (I think) an independent northeast.
>>
>> The US is fractured in "Slaughterhouse five", but it is just a throwaway bit, to give Vonnegut another chance
>> to say "so it goes".
>>
>> William Hyde
>
>"Revolt In 2100" is about the USA converting back from a religious
>dictatorship (the prophet) to a republic by the vehicle of war, yes.
>
>"Methuselah's Children" is about the discovery of a long term experiment
>to lengthen people's lives in 2150 USA that started in 1900. The
>experiment doubled the participants lives using genetic selection. The
>revelation prompted the life extension project which extended generic
>people's lives six fold using rejuvenation every 50 years.
>
>"Stranger In A Strange Land" is about the return of the first Martian
>born person to the 2150 USA and the subsequent unrest in the USA that
>causes as people try to use him to further their interests.
>
>"I Will Fear No Evil" is about the implanting of a old human brain into
>a brain dead young person in 2150 USA and the subsequent social craziness.

And Starship Troopers is about what happens when you redefine "the
People" to mean "a well regulated militia".

On 7/14/2021 5:56 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 16:08:10 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/14/2021 3:19 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 3:16:29 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 7/14/2021 9:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>> Five Speculative Visions of a Future America
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/
>>>> Dude, you did not mention a Heinlein book in your list ? I am shocked,
>>>> totally shocked.
>>>>
>>>> I would have mentioned "Revolt in 2100"
>>>
>>> Just a civil war, nothing to see here.
>>>
>>> or "Methuselah's Children"
>>>
>>> I don't recall what the state of the USA was in this book. Whatever it was I don't think it
>>> was particularly central.
>>>
>>> at a
>>>> minimum. Or even "Stranger In A Strange Land" or the freakout "I Will
>>>> Fear No Evil".
>>>
>>> IIRC neither seems to apply. But it's been decades since I read either. And I tend not to remember books
>>> I didn't like.
>>>
>>> Someone pointed out in comments that the US is fractured in "Friday". But I recall nothing of
>>> that novel, either.
>>>
>>> In Pangborn's "Davy" not only the US but even the northeast is fractured. Kingdoms/states mentioned in the
>>> book include Penn, Moha, Katskill, Lebannin, and Nuin. Nuber is an independent holy city. South and west of Penn is jungle, and the secretive folks of Penn aren't saying anything about that. Only religion unites them (and Penn isn't really on board even with that).
>>>
>>> But in that book not just the US but the whole world is fractured, as in many post WWIII novels.
>>>
>>> In Leiber's "A Spectre is haunting Texas" (also post WWIII, but a relatively mild one) the US is split into at least two and possibly three parts. Texas, which is most of the warm part of continent, some pacific state whose borders are not well stated in the book but may be the whole coast of the current US and Canada (Alaska and northern Canada are Russian) and (I think) an independent northeast.
>>>
>>> The US is fractured in "Slaughterhouse five", but it is just a throwaway bit, to give Vonnegut another chance
>>> to say "so it goes".
>>>
>>> William Hyde
>>
>> "Revolt In 2100" is about the USA converting back from a religious
>> dictatorship (the prophet) to a republic by the vehicle of war, yes.
>>
>> "Methuselah's Children" is about the discovery of a long term experiment
>> to lengthen people's lives in 2150 USA that started in 1900. The
>> experiment doubled the participants lives using genetic selection. The
>> revelation prompted the life extension project which extended generic
>> people's lives six fold using rejuvenation every 50 years.
>>
>> "Stranger In A Strange Land" is about the return of the first Martian
>> born person to the 2150 USA and the subsequent unrest in the USA that
>> causes as people try to use him to further their interests.
>>
>> "I Will Fear No Evil" is about the implanting of a old human brain into
>> a brain dead young person in 2150 USA and the subsequent social craziness.
>
> And Starship Troopers is about what happens when you redefine "the
> People" to mean "a well regulated militia".

But none of "Starship Troopers" happens in the USA.

Lynn

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 5:08:18 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 7/14/2021 3:19 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 3:16:29 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> On 7/14/2021 9:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> >>> Five Speculative Visions of a Future America
> >>>
> >>> https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/
> >> Dude, you did not mention a Heinlein book in your list ? I am shocked,
> >> totally shocked.
> >>
> >> I would have mentioned "Revolt in 2100"
> >
> > Just a civil war, nothing to see here.
> >
> > or "Methuselah's Children"
> >
> > I don't recall what the state of the USA was in this book. Whatever it was I don't think it
> > was particularly central.
> >
> > at a
> >> minimum. Or even "Stranger In A Strange Land" or the freakout "I Will
> >> Fear No Evil".
> >
> > IIRC neither seems to apply. But it's been decades since I read either. And I tend not to remember books
> > I didn't like.
> >
> > Someone pointed out in comments that the US is fractured in "Friday". But I recall nothing of
> > that novel, either.
> >
> > In Pangborn's "Davy" not only the US but even the northeast is fractured. Kingdoms/states mentioned in the
> > book include Penn, Moha, Katskill, Lebannin, and Nuin. Nuber is an independent holy city. South and west of Penn is jungle, and the secretive folks of Penn aren't saying anything about that. Only religion unites them (and Penn isn't really on board even with that).
> >
> > But in that book not just the US but the whole world is fractured, as in many post WWIII novels.
> >
> > In Leiber's "A Spectre is haunting Texas" (also post WWIII, but a relatively mild one) the US is split into at least two and possibly three parts. Texas, which is most of the warm part of continent, some pacific state whose borders are not well stated in the book but may be the whole coast of the current US and Canada (Alaska and northern Canada are Russian) and (I think) an independent northeast.
> >
> > The US is fractured in "Slaughterhouse five", but it is just a throwaway bit, to give Vonnegut another chance
> > to say "so it goes".
> >
> > William Hyde
> "Revolt In 2100" is about the USA converting back from a religious
> dictatorship (the prophet) to a republic by the vehicle of war, yes.
>
> "Methuselah's Children" is about the discovery of a long term experiment
> to lengthen people's lives in 2150 USA that started in 1900. The
> experiment doubled the participants lives using genetic selection. The
> revelation prompted the life extension project which extended generic
> people's lives six fold using rejuvenation every 50 years.
>
> "Stranger In A Strange Land" is about the return of the first Martian
> born person to the 2150 USA and the subsequent unrest in the USA that
> causes as people try to use him to further their interests.
>
> "I Will Fear No Evil" is about the implanting of a old human brain into
> a brain dead young person in 2150 USA and the subsequent social craziness..

Well, James' post was about books in which the USA broke up. None of those
books seem to be relevant to that. Now, if we just want books in which
the future of the US is discussed, we'll need a massive amount of memory
just to list the titles.

William Hyde

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 19:23:23 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 7/14/2021 5:56 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 16:08:10 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/14/2021 3:19 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 3:16:29 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 7/14/2021 9:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>> Five Speculative Visions of a Future America
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/
>>>>> Dude, you did not mention a Heinlein book in your list ? I am shocked,
>>>>> totally shocked.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would have mentioned "Revolt in 2100"
>>>>
>>>> Just a civil war, nothing to see here.
>>>>
>>>> or "Methuselah's Children"
>>>>
>>>> I don't recall what the state of the USA was in this book. Whatever it was I don't think it
>>>> was particularly central.
>>>>
>>>> at a
>>>>> minimum. Or even "Stranger In A Strange Land" or the freakout "I Will
>>>>> Fear No Evil".
>>>>
>>>> IIRC neither seems to apply. But it's been decades since I read either. And I tend not to remember books
>>>> I didn't like.
>>>>
>>>> Someone pointed out in comments that the US is fractured in "Friday". But I recall nothing of
>>>> that novel, either.
>>>>
>>>> In Pangborn's "Davy" not only the US but even the northeast is fractured. Kingdoms/states mentioned in the
>>>> book include Penn, Moha, Katskill, Lebannin, and Nuin. Nuber is an independent holy city. South and west of Penn is jungle, and the secretive folks of Penn aren't saying anything about that. Only religion unites them (and Penn isn't really on board even with that).
>>>>
>>>> But in that book not just the US but the whole world is fractured, as in many post WWIII novels.
>>>>
>>>> In Leiber's "A Spectre is haunting Texas" (also post WWIII, but a relatively mild one) the US is split into at least two and possibly three parts. Texas, which is most of the warm part of continent, some pacific state whose borders are not well stated in the book but may be the whole coast of the current US and Canada (Alaska and northern Canada are Russian) and (I think) an independent northeast.
>>>>
>>>> The US is fractured in "Slaughterhouse five", but it is just a throwaway bit, to give Vonnegut another chance
>>>> to say "so it goes".
>>>>
>>>> William Hyde
>>>
>>> "Revolt In 2100" is about the USA converting back from a religious
>>> dictatorship (the prophet) to a republic by the vehicle of war, yes.
>>>
>>> "Methuselah's Children" is about the discovery of a long term experiment
>>> to lengthen people's lives in 2150 USA that started in 1900. The
>>> experiment doubled the participants lives using genetic selection. The
>>> revelation prompted the life extension project which extended generic
>>> people's lives six fold using rejuvenation every 50 years.
>>>
>>> "Stranger In A Strange Land" is about the return of the first Martian
>>> born person to the 2150 USA and the subsequent unrest in the USA that
>>> causes as people try to use him to further their interests.
>>>
>>> "I Will Fear No Evil" is about the implanting of a old human brain into
>>> a brain dead young person in 2150 USA and the subsequent social craziness.
>>
>> And Starship Troopers is about what happens when you redefine "the
>> People" to mean "a well regulated militia".
>
>But none of "Starship Troopers" happens in the USA.

It's called the Terran Federation so no, technically it's not the USA.
So what? It's still a society where the rights that are guaranteed to
"the people" in our society are held by a well-regulated militia.

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:19:05 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 3:16:29 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > On 7/14/2021 9:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> > > Five Speculative Visions of a Future America
> > >
> > > https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/
> > Dude, you did not mention a Heinlein book in your list ? I am shocked,
> > totally shocked.
> >
> > I would have mentioned "Revolt in 2100"
> Just a civil war, nothing to see here.
>
> or "Methuselah's Children"
>
> I don't recall what the state of the USA was in this book. Whatever it was I don't think it
> was particularly central.
> at a
> > minimum. Or even "Stranger In A Strange Land" or the freakout "I Will
> > Fear No Evil".
> IIRC neither seems to apply. But it's been decades since I read either. And I tend not to remember books
> I didn't like.
>
> Someone pointed out in comments that the US is fractured in "Friday". But I recall nothing of
> that novel, either.
>
> In Pangborn's "Davy" not only the US but even the northeast is fractured. Kingdoms/states mentioned in the
> book include Penn, Moha, Katskill, Lebannin, and Nuin. Nuber is an independent holy city. South and west of Penn is jungle, and the secretive folks of Penn aren't saying anything about that. Only religion unites them (and Penn isn't really on board even with that).
>
> But in that book not just the US but the whole world is fractured, as in many post WWIII novels.
>
> In Leiber's "A Spectre is haunting Texas" (also post WWIII, but a relatively mild one) the US is split into at least two and possibly three parts. Texas, which is most of the warm part of continent, some pacific state whose borders are not well stated in the book but may be the whole coast of the current US and Canada (Alaska and northern Canada are Russian) and (I think) an independent northeast.
>

The US is also fractured in Dick's The Man in the High Castle,
and Poul Anderson's Maurai series (many short stories, plus
the novel Orion Shall Rise).

Tony

Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> writes:
>On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:19:05 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 3:16:29 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:=20
>> > On 7/14/2021 9:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:=20
>> > > Five Speculative Visions of a Future America=20
>> > >=20
>> > > https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-a=
>merica/=20
>> > Dude, you did not mention a Heinlein book in your list ? I am shocked,=
>=20
>> > totally shocked.=20
>> >=20
>> > I would have mentioned "Revolt in 2100"
>> Just a civil war, nothing to see here.=20
>>=20
>> or "Methuselah's Children"=20
>>=20
>> I don't recall what the state of the USA was in this book. Whatever it wa=
>s I don't think it=20
>> was particularly central.
>> at a=20
>> > minimum. Or even "Stranger In A Strange Land" or the freakout "I Will=
>=20
>> > Fear No Evil".
>> IIRC neither seems to apply. But it's been decades since I read either. A=
>nd I tend not to remember books=20
>> I didn't like.=20
>>=20
>> Someone pointed out in comments that the US is fractured in "Friday". But=
> I recall nothing of=20
>> that novel, either.=20
>>=20
>> In Pangborn's "Davy" not only the US but even the northeast is fractured.=
> Kingdoms/states mentioned in the=20
>> book include Penn, Moha, Katskill, Lebannin, and Nuin. Nuber is an indepe=
>ndent holy city. South and west of Penn is jungle, and the secretive folks =
>of Penn aren't saying anything about that. Only religion unites them (and P=
>enn isn't really on board even with that).=20
>>=20
>> But in that book not just the US but the whole world is fractured, as in =
>many post WWIII novels.=20
>>=20
>> In Leiber's "A Spectre is haunting Texas" (also post WWIII, but a relativ=
>ely mild one) the US is split into at least two and possibly three parts. T=
>exas, which is most of the warm part of continent, some pacific state whose=
> borders are not well stated in the book but may be the whole coast of the =
>current US and Canada (Alaska and northern Canada are Russian) and (I think=
>) an independent northeast.=20
>>=20
>
>The US is also fractured in Dick's The Man in the High Castle,=20
>and Poul Anderson's Maurai series (many short stories, plus
>the novel Orion Shall Rise).

And Texas secedes in Daniel Da Cruz _The Eyes of Texas_.

Tony Nance wrote:
> William Hyde wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> > James Nicoll wrote:
>> > > Five Speculative Visions of a Future America
>> > >
>> > > https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/
>> > Dude, you did not mention a Heinlein book in your list ? I am shocked,
>> > totally shocked.
>> >
>> > I would have mentioned "Revolt in 2100"
>> Just a civil war, nothing to see here.
>>
>> or "Methuselah's Children"
>>
>> I don't recall what the state of the USA was in this book. Whatever it was
>> I don't think it
>> was particularly central.
>> at a
>> > minimum. Or even "Stranger In A Strange Land" or the freakout "I Will
>> > Fear No Evil".
>> IIRC neither seems to apply. But it's been decades since I read either. And I
>> tend not to remember books
>> I didn't like.
>>
>> Someone pointed out in comments that the US is fractured in "Friday". But I
>> recall nothing of
>> that novel, either.
>>
>> In Pangborn's "Davy" not only the US but even the northeast is fractured.
>> Kingdoms/states mentioned in the
>> book include Penn, Moha, Katskill, Lebannin, and Nuin. Nuber is an
>> independent holy city. South and west of Penn is jungle, and the secretive
>> folks of Penn aren't saying anything about that. Only religion unites them
>> (and Penn isn't really on board even with that).
>>
>> But in that book not just the US but the whole world is fractured, as in
>> many post WWIII novels.
>>
>> In Leiber's "A Spectre is haunting Texas" (also post WWIII, but a relatively
>> mild one) the US is split into at least two and possibly three parts. Texas,
>> which is most of the warm part of continent, some pacific state whose borders
>> are not well stated in the book but may be the whole coast of the current US
>> and Canada (Alaska and northern Canada are Russian) and (I think) an independent
>> northeast.
>>
> The US is also fractured in Dick's The Man in the High Castle,
> and Poul Anderson's Maurai series (many short stories, plus
> the novel Orion Shall Rise).

The PKD's a great call! (The Anderson's unknown to me.) "The Ungoverned"
(Vinge) also features fractured states, along with "Fiat Lux" (Miller):

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fiat_Lux_Canticle_map.png

_On Re-Making the World: Cut Nations Down to Size_ (Schultz) envisions:
Dixie, Texas, South California, North California, Mountain states,
Middle west, and New England. He sees Canada broken up into: Quebec,
British Columbia, Northern territory, Ontario, Eastern, and Prairie.
Australia's also too big and needs to be broken up into the separate
nations of: Western Australia, Northern Territory, South Australia,
Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria, and Tasmania.

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

On 7/14/2021 8:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 5:08:18 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 7/14/2021 3:19 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 3:16:29 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 7/14/2021 9:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>> Five Speculative Visions of a Future America
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/
>>>> Dude, you did not mention a Heinlein book in your list ? I am shocked,
>>>> totally shocked.
>>>>
>>>> I would have mentioned "Revolt in 2100"
>>>
>>> Just a civil war, nothing to see here.
>>>
>>> or "Methuselah's Children"
>>>
>>> I don't recall what the state of the USA was in this book. Whatever it was I don't think it
>>> was particularly central.
>>>
>>> at a
>>>> minimum. Or even "Stranger In A Strange Land" or the freakout "I Will
>>>> Fear No Evil".
>>>
>>> IIRC neither seems to apply. But it's been decades since I read either. And I tend not to remember books
>>> I didn't like.
>>>
>>> Someone pointed out in comments that the US is fractured in "Friday". But I recall nothing of
>>> that novel, either.
>>>
>>> In Pangborn's "Davy" not only the US but even the northeast is fractured. Kingdoms/states mentioned in the
>>> book include Penn, Moha, Katskill, Lebannin, and Nuin. Nuber is an independent holy city. South and west of Penn is jungle, and the secretive folks of Penn aren't saying anything about that. Only religion unites them (and Penn isn't really on board even with that).
>>>
>>> But in that book not just the US but the whole world is fractured, as in many post WWIII novels.
>>>
>>> In Leiber's "A Spectre is haunting Texas" (also post WWIII, but a relatively mild one) the US is split into at least two and possibly three parts. Texas, which is most of the warm part of continent, some pacific state whose borders are not well stated in the book but may be the whole coast of the current US and Canada (Alaska and northern Canada are Russian) and (I think) an independent northeast.
>>>
>>> The US is fractured in "Slaughterhouse five", but it is just a throwaway bit, to give Vonnegut another chance
>>> to say "so it goes".
>>>
>>> William Hyde
>> "Revolt In 2100" is about the USA converting back from a religious
>> dictatorship (the prophet) to a republic by the vehicle of war, yes.
>>
>> "Methuselah's Children" is about the discovery of a long term experiment
>> to lengthen people's lives in 2150 USA that started in 1900. The
>> experiment doubled the participants lives using genetic selection. The
>> revelation prompted the life extension project which extended generic
>> people's lives six fold using rejuvenation every 50 years.
>>
>> "Stranger In A Strange Land" is about the return of the first Martian
>> born person to the 2150 USA and the subsequent unrest in the USA that
>> causes as people try to use him to further their interests.
>>
>> "I Will Fear No Evil" is about the implanting of a old human brain into
>> a brain dead young person in 2150 USA and the subsequent social craziness.
>
> Well, James' post was about books in which the USA broke up. None of those
> books seem to be relevant to that. Now, if we just want books in which
> the future of the US is discussed, we'll need a massive amount of memory
> just to list the titles.
>
> William Hyde

Ah, I did not realize that was the subplot of his article.

Thanks,
Lynn

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 5:08:18 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 7/14/2021 3:19 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 3:16:29 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> On 7/14/2021 9:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> >>> Five Speculative Visions of a Future America
> >>>
> >>> https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/
> >> Dude, you did not mention a Heinlein book in your list ? I am shocked,
> >> totally shocked.
> >>
> >> I would have mentioned "Revolt in 2100"
> >
> > Just a civil war, nothing to see here.
> >
> > or "Methuselah's Children"
> >
> > I don't recall what the state of the USA was in this book. Whatever it was I don't think it
> > was particularly central.
> >
> > at a
> >> minimum. Or even "Stranger In A Strange Land" or the freakout "I Will
> >> Fear No Evil".
> >
> > IIRC neither seems to apply. But it's been decades since I read either. And I tend not to remember books
> > I didn't like.
> >
> > Someone pointed out in comments that the US is fractured in "Friday". But I recall nothing of
> > that novel, either.
> >
> > In Pangborn's "Davy" not only the US but even the northeast is fractured. Kingdoms/states mentioned in the
> > book include Penn, Moha, Katskill, Lebannin, and Nuin. Nuber is an independent holy city. South and west of Penn is jungle, and the secretive folks of Penn aren't saying anything about that. Only religion unites them (and Penn isn't really on board even with that).
> >
> > But in that book not just the US but the whole world is fractured, as in many post WWIII novels.
> >
> > In Leiber's "A Spectre is haunting Texas" (also post WWIII, but a relatively mild one) the US is split into at least two and possibly three parts. Texas, which is most of the warm part of continent, some pacific state whose borders are not well stated in the book but may be the whole coast of the current US and Canada (Alaska and northern Canada are Russian) and (I think) an independent northeast.
> >
> > The US is fractured in "Slaughterhouse five", but it is just a throwaway bit, to give Vonnegut another chance
> > to say "so it goes".
> >
> > William Hyde
> "Revolt In 2100" is about the USA converting back from a religious
> dictatorship (the prophet) to a republic by the vehicle of war, yes.
>
> "Methuselah's Children" is about the discovery of a long term experiment
> to lengthen people's lives in 2150 USA that started in 1900. The
> experiment doubled the participants lives using genetic selection. The
> revelation prompted the life extension project which extended generic
> people's lives six fold using rejuvenation every 50 years.
>
> "Stranger In A Strange Land" is about the return of the first Martian
> born person to the 2150 USA and the subsequent unrest in the USA that
> causes as people try to use him to further their interests.
>
> "I Will Fear No Evil" is about the implanting of a old human brain into
> a brain dead young person in 2150 USA and the subsequent social craziness..
>
> Lynn

A few notes about dates in the Heinlein books. This is from memory, as the books are not handy at the moment.

"Revolt in 2100" is set around 2075, as that's the date given in "Methuselah's Children" for the Covenant that followed the fall of the Prophets.

"Methuselah's Children" has specific but inconsistent internal dating. In one part, Lazarus says he's 213 years old, and it's firmly established that he was born in late 1912, so it must be 2125 or 2126. But it's also mentioned that the Families' meeting of 2125 was 11 years earlier, which would make it 2136.

"Stranger in a Strange Land" is set slightly after 2000. There was a conversation in which some character (Ben Caxton, perhaps) tells Jubal to stop acting like it's the 20th century, because "we've turned the corner on the 21st". And Jubal, who seems to be in his nineties, is described as flirting with girls since the Harding Administration, which lasted from 1921-23.

"I Will Fear No Evil" is tenuously set somewhere around 2000, based on a throwaway comment by Lazarus in "Time Enough for Love".

On 7/15/2021 9:11 PM, Martin wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 5:08:18 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 7/14/2021 3:19 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 3:16:29 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 7/14/2021 9:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>> Five Speculative Visions of a Future America
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/
>>>> Dude, you did not mention a Heinlein book in your list ? I am shocked,
>>>> totally shocked.
>>>>
>>>> I would have mentioned "Revolt in 2100"
>>>
>>> Just a civil war, nothing to see here.
>>>
>>> or "Methuselah's Children"
>>>
>>> I don't recall what the state of the USA was in this book. Whatever it was I don't think it
>>> was particularly central.
>>>
>>> at a
>>>> minimum. Or even "Stranger In A Strange Land" or the freakout "I Will
>>>> Fear No Evil".
>>>
>>> IIRC neither seems to apply. But it's been decades since I read either. And I tend not to remember books
>>> I didn't like.
>>>
>>> Someone pointed out in comments that the US is fractured in "Friday". But I recall nothing of
>>> that novel, either.
>>>
>>> In Pangborn's "Davy" not only the US but even the northeast is fractured. Kingdoms/states mentioned in the
>>> book include Penn, Moha, Katskill, Lebannin, and Nuin. Nuber is an independent holy city. South and west of Penn is jungle, and the secretive folks of Penn aren't saying anything about that. Only religion unites them (and Penn isn't really on board even with that).
>>>
>>> But in that book not just the US but the whole world is fractured, as in many post WWIII novels.
>>>
>>> In Leiber's "A Spectre is haunting Texas" (also post WWIII, but a relatively mild one) the US is split into at least two and possibly three parts. Texas, which is most of the warm part of continent, some pacific state whose borders are not well stated in the book but may be the whole coast of the current US and Canada (Alaska and northern Canada are Russian) and (I think) an independent northeast.
>>>
>>> The US is fractured in "Slaughterhouse five", but it is just a throwaway bit, to give Vonnegut another chance
>>> to say "so it goes".
>>>
>>> William Hyde
>> "Revolt In 2100" is about the USA converting back from a religious
>> dictatorship (the prophet) to a republic by the vehicle of war, yes.
>>
>> "Methuselah's Children" is about the discovery of a long term experiment
>> to lengthen people's lives in 2150 USA that started in 1900. The
>> experiment doubled the participants lives using genetic selection. The
>> revelation prompted the life extension project which extended generic
>> people's lives six fold using rejuvenation every 50 years.
>>
>> "Stranger In A Strange Land" is about the return of the first Martian
>> born person to the 2150 USA and the subsequent unrest in the USA that
>> causes as people try to use him to further their interests.
>>
>> "I Will Fear No Evil" is about the implanting of a old human brain into
>> a brain dead young person in 2150 USA and the subsequent social craziness.
>>
>> Lynn
>
> A few notes about dates in the Heinlein books. This is from memory, as the books are not handy at the moment.
>
> "Revolt in 2100" is set around 2075, as that's the date given in "Methuselah's Children" for the Covenant that followed the fall of the Prophets.
>
> "Methuselah's Children" has specific but inconsistent internal dating. In one part, Lazarus says he's 213 years old, and it's firmly established that he was born in late 1912, so it must be 2125 or 2126. But it's also mentioned that the Families' meeting of 2125 was 11 years earlier, which would make it 2136.
>
> "Stranger in a Strange Land" is set slightly after 2000. There was a conversation in which some character (Ben Caxton, perhaps) tells Jubal to stop acting like it's the 20th century, because "we've turned the corner on the 21st". And Jubal, who seems to be in his nineties, is described as flirting with girls since the Harding Administration, which lasted from 1921-23.
>
> "I Will Fear No Evil" is tenuously set somewhere around 2000, based on a throwaway comment by Lazarus in "Time Enough for Love".

Thanks !

Lynn

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 8:12:26 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five Speculative Visions of a Future America
>
> https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/
> --
> My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
> My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
> My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
> My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

For a more recent one, I recommend "Unauthorized Bread" by Cory Doctorow, a novella in his collection Radicalized.

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 4:29:14 PM UTC-4, artyw2@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 8:12:26 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> > Five Speculative Visions of a Future America
> >
> > https://www.tor.com/2021/07/14/five-speculative-visions-of-a-future-america/
> > --

James used "hotchpotch," where I would have written "hodgepodge."

One learns something new everyday!

https://notoneoffbritishisms.com/2019/07/08/hotchpotch/

[snip]

> For a more recent one, I recommend "Unauthorized Bread" by Cory Doctorow,
> a novella in his collection Radicalized.

--
Kevin R