Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

"The greatest warriors are the ones who fight for peace." -- Holly Near


arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot copegggg gggg
`* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot copeTodd M. McComb
 `* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot copeAndy Evans
  `* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot copeTodd M. McComb
   `* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannotmINE109
    `* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannotTodd M. McComb
     `* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannotmINE109
      `* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannotTodd M. McComb
       +* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannotmINE109
       |`* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannotTodd M. McComb
       | +* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannotTodd M. McComb
       | |`* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannotmINE109
       | | `* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot copeMandryka
       | |  `- Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannotmINE109
       | `* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannotmINE109
       |  +- Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannotTodd M. McComb
       |  `* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannotTodd M. McComb
       |   +* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot copeOwen Hartnett
       |   |`- Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot copeTodd M. McComb
       |   `* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannotmINE109
       |    `* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannotTodd M. McComb
       |     `- Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannotmINE109
       `* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot copenumber_six
        `* Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot copeTodd M. McComb
         `- Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot copeMandryka

1
Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<b20f0c96-ea99-49c4-b105-0389d6d90680n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57091&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57091

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4725:b0:75b:12fe:8a95 with SMTP id bs37-20020a05620a472500b0075b12fe8a95mr299220qkb.4.1685070914822;
Thu, 25 May 2023 20:15:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:9706:0:b0:ba8:1e83:af32 with SMTP id
d6-20020a259706000000b00ba81e83af32mr198463ybo.1.1685070914446; Thu, 25 May
2023 20:15:14 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!border-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 20:15:14 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=32.132.12.210; posting-account=VREO7AoAAABGo_TnRXAj3kKbki4Qex7X
NNTP-Posting-Host: 32.132.12.210
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <b20f0c96-ea99-49c4-b105-0389d6d90680n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope
From: ggggg9...@gmail.com (gggg gggg)
Injection-Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 03:15:14 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 7
 by: gggg gggg - Fri, 26 May 2023 03:15 UTC

On Wednesday, February 24, 2010 at 10:07:21 AM UTC-8, Poldie wrote:
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/7279626/Audiences-hate-modern-classical-music-because-their-brains-cannot-cope.html
> Modern classical music is so widely disliked by audiences because the
> human brain struggles to find patterns it needs to understand the
> compositions as music.

https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/rec.music.classical/c/-8nBG6EjHOA

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u502sk$8pn$1@hope.eyrie.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57208&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57208

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!news.killfile.org!news.eyrie.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 17:26:44 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <u502sk$8pn$1@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <b20f0c96-ea99-49c4-b105-0389d6d90680n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 17:26:44 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: hope.eyrie.org;
logging-data="9015"; mail-complaints-to="news@eyrie.org"
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: todd@pangkur.medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
 by: Todd M. McComb - Sun, 28 May 2023 17:26 UTC

"Weird means something you never heard before. It's weird until
people get around to it. Then it ceases to be weird."
-- Theolonius Monk

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<8d0038ab-a3a8-40ab-a7af-c25500873f97n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57251&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57251

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:5653:b0:626:979:5e26 with SMTP id mh19-20020a056214565300b0062609795e26mr959277qvb.12.1685346227628;
Mon, 29 May 2023 00:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:4046:0:b0:ba8:9afc:ed6f with SMTP id
n67-20020a254046000000b00ba89afced6fmr3496351yba.7.1685346227452; Mon, 29 May
2023 00:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 00:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <u502sk$8pn$1@hope.eyrie.org>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2a02:c7f:625:2300:7851:26fc:8f83:5444;
posting-account=3RTYVwoAAABctBp7ZuUZBz77T0ZKC4Gh
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2a02:c7f:625:2300:7851:26fc:8f83:5444
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
<b20f0c96-ea99-49c4-b105-0389d6d90680n@googlegroups.com> <u502sk$8pn$1@hope.eyrie.org>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <8d0038ab-a3a8-40ab-a7af-c25500873f97n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope
From: performa...@gmail.com (Andy Evans)
Injection-Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 07:43:47 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2124
 by: Andy Evans - Mon, 29 May 2023 07:43 UTC

On Sunday, 28 May 2023 at 18:28:34 UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> "Weird means something you never heard before. It's weird until
> people get around to it. Then it ceases to be weird."
> -- Theolonius Monk

Yes, though as a psychologist I have to agree with the original 2010 link, that the human brain does look for patterns it can relate to. One aspect of this is called "chunking" where elements fit together. So it's easier to remember ICI, CIA, KGB which are related to existing patterns than new sequences like CII or AIC or BGK.

But I hang out on an audio newsgroup and the guys there listen to modern tonal music, which seems to be doing quite well these days, especially if well recorded - Arvo Part and that kind of thing.

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u52i5t$fh$1@hope.eyrie.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57274&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57274

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!news.killfile.org!news.eyrie.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 15:59:57 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <u52i5t$fh$1@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <b20f0c96-ea99-49c4-b105-0389d6d90680n@googlegroups.com> <u502sk$8pn$1@hope.eyrie.org> <8d0038ab-a3a8-40ab-a7af-c25500873f97n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 15:59:57 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: hope.eyrie.org;
logging-data="497"; mail-complaints-to="news@eyrie.org"
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: todd@pangkur.medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
 by: Todd M. McComb - Mon, 29 May 2023 15:59 UTC

In article <8d0038ab-a3a8-40ab-a7af-c25500873f97n@googlegroups.com>,
Andy Evans <performanceandmedia@gmail.com> wrote:
>Yes, though as a psychologist I have to agree with the original 2010
>link, that the human brain does look for patterns it can relate to.

This is one of those ordinary facts that people try to make sound
like more than it is. No one is born knowing Brahms either.

>But I hang out on an audio newsgroup and the guys there listen to
>modern tonal music, which seems to be doing quite well these days,
>especially if well recorded - Arvo Part and that kind of thing.

I don't actually know if Part uses the word "tonal" for his music,
but since his inspiration is music from before tonality per se --
a very specific musical technology -- was invented, I wouldn't call
it that.

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u52jgh$1h0ue$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57275&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57275

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pianofor...@yahoo.com (mINE109)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot
cope
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 11:22:39 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <u52jgh$1h0ue$1@dont-email.me>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
<b20f0c96-ea99-49c4-b105-0389d6d90680n@googlegroups.com>
<u502sk$8pn$1@hope.eyrie.org>
<8d0038ab-a3a8-40ab-a7af-c25500873f97n@googlegroups.com>
<u52i5t$fh$1@hope.eyrie.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 16:22:41 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="ff6ff24892a6a60e3f1f5e1f642550dd";
logging-data="1606606"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18K052H6VC6gUJbcT7ErpGg"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:5drVxu9JXMvoJMajz0ihD5Z5B4s=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <u52i5t$fh$1@hope.eyrie.org>
 by: mINE109 - Mon, 29 May 2023 16:22 UTC

On 5/29/23 10:59 AM, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <8d0038ab-a3a8-40ab-a7af-c25500873f97n@googlegroups.com>,
> Andy Evans <performanceandmedia@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes, though as a psychologist I have to agree with the original 2010
>> link, that the human brain does look for patterns it can relate to.
>
> This is one of those ordinary facts that people try to make sound
> like more than it is. No one is born knowing Brahms either.
>
>> But I hang out on an audio newsgroup and the guys there listen to
>> modern tonal music, which seems to be doing quite well these days,
>> especially if well recorded - Arvo Part and that kind of thing.
>
> I don't actually know if Part uses the word "tonal" for his music,
> but since his inspiration is music from before tonality per se --
> a very specific musical technology -- was invented, I wouldn't call
> it that.

Many of his pieces are diatonic and triadic, which makes for a
relatively easy listen for new listeners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintinnabuli

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u52tb6$8vk$1@hope.eyrie.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57286&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57286

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!news.killfile.org!news.eyrie.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot
cope
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 19:10:30 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <u52tb6$8vk$1@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <8d0038ab-a3a8-40ab-a7af-c25500873f97n@googlegroups.com> <u52i5t$fh$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u52jgh$1h0ue$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 19:10:30 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: hope.eyrie.org;
logging-data="9204"; mail-complaints-to="news@eyrie.org"
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: todd@pangkur.medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
 by: Todd M. McComb - Mon, 29 May 2023 19:10 UTC

In article <u52jgh$1h0ue$1@dont-email.me>,
mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 5/29/23 10:59 AM, Todd M. McComb wrote:
>> I don't actually know if Part uses the word "tonal" for his music,
>> but since his inspiration is music from before tonality per se --
>> a very specific musical technology -- was invented, I wouldn't call
>> it that.
>Many of his pieces are diatonic and triadic, which makes for a
>relatively easy listen for new listeners.

I take it you are disagreeing somehow.... The idea that Part, whose
heyday seems to have been a few decades ago anywwy, is unique in
this regard just seems bizarre....

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u532hs$1kg88$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57287&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57287

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pianofor...@yahoo.com (mINE109)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot
cope
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 15:39:24 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <u532hs$1kg88$1@dont-email.me>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
<8d0038ab-a3a8-40ab-a7af-c25500873f97n@googlegroups.com>
<u52i5t$fh$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u52jgh$1h0ue$1@dont-email.me>
<u52tb6$8vk$1@hope.eyrie.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 20:39:30 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="ff6ff24892a6a60e3f1f5e1f642550dd";
logging-data="1720584"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19D0tWTDGLgfgRTmp7X0vEW"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:x/hqYjCCKonXEcw8YR1CvuzU3aQ=
In-Reply-To: <u52tb6$8vk$1@hope.eyrie.org>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: mINE109 - Mon, 29 May 2023 20:39 UTC

On 5/29/23 2:10 PM, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <u52jgh$1h0ue$1@dont-email.me>,
> mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 5/29/23 10:59 AM, Todd M. McComb wrote:
>>> I don't actually know if Part uses the word "tonal" for his music,
>>> but since his inspiration is music from before tonality per se --
>>> a very specific musical technology -- was invented, I wouldn't call
>>> it that.
>> Many of his pieces are diatonic and triadic, which makes for a
>> relatively easy listen for new listeners.
>
> I take it you are disagreeing somehow.... The idea that Part, whose
> heyday seems to have been a few decades ago anywwy, is unique in
> this regard just seems bizarre....

Then I'm glad I didn't call it uniquely easy to listen to. While Part
may be relatively passe, he is well represented in choral programs,
dance pieces and even an episode of Ted Lasso, all while bypassing the
tyranny of ti-do.

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u533ou$ec3$1@hope.eyrie.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57288&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57288

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!news.killfile.org!news.eyrie.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot
cope
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 21:00:14 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <u533ou$ec3$1@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <u52jgh$1h0ue$1@dont-email.me> <u52tb6$8vk$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u532hs$1kg88$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 21:00:14 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: hope.eyrie.org;
logging-data="14723"; mail-complaints-to="news@eyrie.org"
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: todd@pangkur.medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
 by: Todd M. McComb - Mon, 29 May 2023 21:00 UTC

In article <u532hs$1kg88$1@dont-email.me>,
mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com> wrote:
>While Part may be relatively passe, he is well represented in
>choral programs, dance pieces and even an episode of Ted Lasso,
>all while bypassing the tyranny of ti-do.

Indeed he seems to illustrate Monk's point, as his music sounds
little like "classical music." And I would not call it tonal.

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u534bk$1ktbs$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57289&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57289

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pianofor...@yahoo.com (mINE109)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot
cope
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 16:10:12 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <u534bk$1ktbs$1@dont-email.me>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
<u52jgh$1h0ue$1@dont-email.me> <u52tb6$8vk$1@hope.eyrie.org>
<u532hs$1kg88$1@dont-email.me> <u533ou$ec3$1@hope.eyrie.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 21:10:12 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="ff6ff24892a6a60e3f1f5e1f642550dd";
logging-data="1734012"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/3WPa5gjDxDXkJVZGO1o+6"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:K81myALgr2DUpusFA/X1GUCMpm0=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <u533ou$ec3$1@hope.eyrie.org>
 by: mINE109 - Mon, 29 May 2023 21:10 UTC

On 5/29/23 4:00 PM, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <u532hs$1kg88$1@dont-email.me>,
> mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> While Part may be relatively passe, he is well represented in
>> choral programs, dance pieces and even an episode of Ted Lasso,
>> all while bypassing the tyranny of ti-do.
>
> Indeed he seems to illustrate Monk's point, as his music sounds
> little like "classical music." And I would not call it tonal.

No, it doesn't use functional harmony and there's certainly weirder
music out there. The mention of the brain's pattern recognition reminds
me of a grad theory student who shared an anecdote of a classical
musically naive school kid commenting appropriately on a 12-tone cell
transformation, recognizing the change to retrograde while he heard a
recording in appreciation class.

There's always one, I guess.

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u53cam$l1a$1@hope.eyrie.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57291&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57291

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!news.killfile.org!news.eyrie.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot
cope
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 23:26:14 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <u53cam$l1a$1@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <u532hs$1kg88$1@dont-email.me> <u533ou$ec3$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u534bk$1ktbs$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 23:26:14 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: hope.eyrie.org;
logging-data="21546"; mail-complaints-to="news@eyrie.org"
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: todd@pangkur.medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
 by: Todd M. McComb - Mon, 29 May 2023 23:26 UTC

In article <u534bk$1ktbs$1@dont-email.me>,
mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com> wrote:
>The mention of the brain's pattern recognition reminds me of a
>grad theory student who shared an anecdote of a classical musically
>naive school kid commenting appropriately on a 12-tone cell
>transformation, recognizing the change to retrograde while he heard
>a recording in appreciation class.

The naive listener, by definition, has not been taught already to
listen for something else.

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u53f6r$n21$1@hope.eyrie.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57292&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57292

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!news.killfile.org!news.eyrie.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot
cope
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 00:15:23 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <u53f6r$n21$1@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <u533ou$ec3$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u534bk$1ktbs$1@dont-email.me> <u53cam$l1a$1@hope.eyrie.org>
Injection-Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 00:15:23 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: hope.eyrie.org;
logging-data="23617"; mail-complaints-to="news@eyrie.org"
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: todd@pangkur.medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
 by: Todd M. McComb - Tue, 30 May 2023 00:15 UTC

In article <u53cam$l1a$1@hope.eyrie.org>,
Todd M. McComb <mccomb@medieval.org> wrote:
>The naive listener, by definition, has not been taught already to
>listen for something else.

In this vein, I searched for Xenakis today, to find out his specific
birthdate (because I was trying to figure out why a recent homage
was dated the way it is... and failed to do so...), and the little
side "panel" thing on Google with his bio included:

Genre: Natural sounds

(No other genre was noted in the factual bullets.)

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u551e8$20qij$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57300&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57300

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pianofor...@yahoo.com (mINE109)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot
cope
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 09:32:40 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <u551e8$20qij$1@dont-email.me>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
<u532hs$1kg88$1@dont-email.me> <u533ou$ec3$1@hope.eyrie.org>
<u534bk$1ktbs$1@dont-email.me> <u53cam$l1a$1@hope.eyrie.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 14:32:40 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="6e23db09a9ddd9a9a946ce2298bdb989";
logging-data="2124371"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19vCKAkS474TEhwMDkBbXRb"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:3KBe2cjIFgm1kdOsZqWrlW3/cpY=
In-Reply-To: <u53cam$l1a$1@hope.eyrie.org>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: mINE109 - Tue, 30 May 2023 14:32 UTC

On 5/29/23 6:26 PM, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <u534bk$1ktbs$1@dont-email.me>,
> mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The mention of the brain's pattern recognition reminds me of a
>> grad theory student who shared an anecdote of a classical musically
>> naive school kid commenting appropriately on a 12-tone cell
>> transformation, recognizing the change to retrograde while he heard
>> a recording in appreciation class.
>
> The naive listener, by definition, has not been taught already to
> listen for something else.

Indeed but ID'ing the point where the tone row appears backwards isn't
what you expect from a school kid. Maybe a theory/comp grad student
could do so but these things are generally recognized in score study.

Of course, the anecdotal school kid has heard years of popular music,
which is generally tonal and triadic, leaving aside the question of if
their recognition is hard-wired into the brain.

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u551l6$20qij$2@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57302&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57302

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pianofor...@yahoo.com (mINE109)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot
cope
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 09:36:22 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <u551l6$20qij$2@dont-email.me>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
<u533ou$ec3$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u534bk$1ktbs$1@dont-email.me>
<u53cam$l1a$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u53f6r$n21$1@hope.eyrie.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 14:36:22 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="6e23db09a9ddd9a9a946ce2298bdb989";
logging-data="2124371"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/qybRTOwFDZm2moSWIl6Wj"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:Rj3mLyO/dRf8hjZhmt0O/HiQt1c=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <u53f6r$n21$1@hope.eyrie.org>
 by: mINE109 - Tue, 30 May 2023 14:36 UTC

On 5/29/23 7:15 PM, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <u53cam$l1a$1@hope.eyrie.org>,
> Todd M. McComb <mccomb@medieval.org> wrote:
>> The naive listener, by definition, has not been taught already to
>> listen for something else.
>
> In this vein, I searched for Xenakis today, to find out his specific
> birthdate (because I was trying to figure out why a recent homage
> was dated the way it is... and failed to do so...), and the little
> side "panel" thing on Google with his bio included:
>
> Genre: Natural sounds
>
> (No other genre was noted in the factual bullets.)

Advantage, Bing. I suppose Xenakis considered his sounds to be natural.

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<9e19c80d-ded6-447d-9d36-54ddface8f6an@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57305&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57305

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4003:b0:759:1798:d849 with SMTP id h3-20020a05620a400300b007591798d849mr719120qko.3.1685459712380;
Tue, 30 May 2023 08:15:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:e305:0:b0:55d:ea61:d8e9 with SMTP id
q5-20020a81e305000000b0055dea61d8e9mr1502093ywl.7.1685459712128; Tue, 30 May
2023 08:15:12 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 08:15:11 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <u551l6$20qij$2@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2a00:23c8:28b:6801:ccc6:3a26:b9fd:6eb2;
posting-account=8bTzzAoAAAC1gnUKfRTQBi2I3-sblKzz
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2a00:23c8:28b:6801:ccc6:3a26:b9fd:6eb2
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
<u533ou$ec3$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u534bk$1ktbs$1@dont-email.me>
<u53cam$l1a$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u53f6r$n21$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u551l6$20qij$2@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <9e19c80d-ded6-447d-9d36-54ddface8f6an@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope
From: howie.st...@gmail.com (Mandryka)
Injection-Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 15:15:12 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: Mandryka - Tue, 30 May 2023 15:15 UTC

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:36:27 PM UTC+1, mINE109 wrote:
> On 5/29/23 7:15 PM, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > In article <u53cam$l1a$1...@hope.eyrie.org>,
> > Todd M. McComb <mcc...@medieval.org> wrote:
> >> The naive listener, by definition, has not been taught already to
> >> listen for something else.
> >
> > In this vein, I searched for Xenakis today, to find out his specific
> > birthdate (because I was trying to figure out why a recent homage
> > was dated the way it is... and failed to do so...), and the little
> > side "panel" thing on Google with his bio included:
> >
> > Genre: Natural sounds
> >
> > (No other genre was noted in the factual bullets.)
> Advantage, Bing. I suppose Xenakis considered his sounds to be natural.

Well Concrete PH is made from the sound of a fire.

And Krinoidi is like an evocation of sea creatures. Listen to it while imagining looking through the water of the sun drenched Aegean and seeing this sort of thing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crinoid

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u5552m$21bv3$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57309&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57309

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pianofor...@yahoo.com (mINE109)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot
cope
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 10:34:44 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <u5552m$21bv3$1@dont-email.me>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
<u533ou$ec3$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u534bk$1ktbs$1@dont-email.me>
<u53cam$l1a$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u53f6r$n21$1@hope.eyrie.org>
<u551l6$20qij$2@dont-email.me>
<9e19c80d-ded6-447d-9d36-54ddface8f6an@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 15:34:46 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="6e23db09a9ddd9a9a946ce2298bdb989";
logging-data="2142179"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18mWoQowly6/Iqk7kh7BF1S"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:nBuVc8m8FfNrev1BJBWQs3f8WwE=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <9e19c80d-ded6-447d-9d36-54ddface8f6an@googlegroups.com>
 by: mINE109 - Tue, 30 May 2023 15:34 UTC

On 5/30/23 10:15 AM, Mandryka wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:36:27 PM UTC+1, mINE109 wrote:
>> On 5/29/23 7:15 PM, Todd M. McComb wrote:
>>> In article <u53cam$l1a$1...@hope.eyrie.org>,
>>> Todd M. McComb <mcc...@medieval.org> wrote:
>>>> The naive listener, by definition, has not been taught already to
>>>> listen for something else.
>>>
>>> In this vein, I searched for Xenakis today, to find out his specific
>>> birthdate (because I was trying to figure out why a recent homage
>>> was dated the way it is... and failed to do so...), and the little
>>> side "panel" thing on Google with his bio included:
>>>
>>> Genre: Natural sounds
>>>
>>> (No other genre was noted in the factual bullets.)
>> Advantage, Bing. I suppose Xenakis considered his sounds to be natural.
>
>
> Well Concrete PH is made from the sound of a fire.
>
> And Krinoidi is like an evocation of sea creatures. Listen to it while imagining looking through the water of the sun drenched Aegean and seeing this sort of thing
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crinoid

We probably agree the google description is inadequate! My limited
exposure to his music was mostly in relation to Musique Concret and
architecture.

I have some exploring to do, ideally with a surround sound element.

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u557ue$v67$1@hope.eyrie.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57311&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57311

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!news.killfile.org!news.eyrie.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot
cope
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 16:23:42 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <u557ue$v67$1@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <u534bk$1ktbs$1@dont-email.me> <u53cam$l1a$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u551e8$20qij$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 16:23:42 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: hope.eyrie.org;
logging-data="31943"; mail-complaints-to="news@eyrie.org"
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: todd@pangkur.medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
 by: Todd M. McComb - Tue, 30 May 2023 16:23 UTC

In article <u551e8$20qij$1@dont-email.me>,
mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Of course, the anecdotal school kid has heard years of popular
>music, which is generally tonal and triadic, leaving aside the
>question of if their recognition is hard-wired into the brain.

The idea that a small slice of Western music history/style is
"hard-wired into the brain" is the sort of notion I've seen thrown
around my entire life. It's absurd.

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u55dea$2e1$1@hope.eyrie.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57317&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57317

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!news.killfile.org!news.eyrie.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot
cope
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 17:57:30 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <u55dea$2e1$1@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <u534bk$1ktbs$1@dont-email.me> <u53cam$l1a$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u551e8$20qij$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 17:57:30 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: hope.eyrie.org;
logging-data="2497"; mail-complaints-to="news@eyrie.org"
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: todd@pangkur.medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
 by: Todd M. McComb - Tue, 30 May 2023 17:57 UTC

In article <u551e8$20qij$1@dont-email.me>,
mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Indeed but ID'ing the point where the tone row appears backwards
>isn't what you expect from a school kid.

Perhaps I should add that really not many people enjoy Brahms....
Perhaps some of those who don't believe they should....

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<2023053016332311643-ads@clipboardinc.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57322&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57322

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 20:33:23 +0000
From: ads...@clipboardinc.com (Owen Hartnett)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 16:33:23 -0400
Message-ID: <2023053016332311643-ads@clipboardinc.com>
References: <u502sk$8pn$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u55dea$2e1$1@hope.eyrie.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope
User-Agent: Unison/2.2
Lines: 16
X-Trace: sv3-3R7mWxM5WOenDyLTOoKS38UzzrzVHdlZbT690XAGI9J6JVx0NGtyr/5zzsyRa0ZdqROHqvoUwDywwHA!BY1aSGR70QIZluxr9NINO/FcTvrpLEf9ZtxOaUkF3mXS2eWWU9nsnN1NmU5heSEEfdzN8JshQPNb!LKrXAQ==
X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
 by: Owen Hartnett - Tue, 30 May 2023 20:33 UTC

On 2023-05-30 17:57:30 +0000, Todd M. McComb said:

> In article <u551e8$20qij$1@dont-email.me>,
> mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Indeed but ID'ing the point where the tone row appears backwards
>> isn't what you expect from a school kid.
>
> Perhaps I should add that really not many people enjoy Brahms....
> Perhaps some of those who don't believe they should....

There's always the fear of missing out on something. If my wife hears
someone raving about some type of food she doesn't like, she feels
compelled to try it again.

-Owen

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u55nb9$9ml$1@hope.eyrie.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57324&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57324

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!news.killfile.org!news.eyrie.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 20:46:33 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <u55nb9$9ml$1@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <u502sk$8pn$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u55dea$2e1$1@hope.eyrie.org> <2023053016332311643-ads@clipboardinc.com>
Injection-Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 20:46:33 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: hope.eyrie.org;
logging-data="9941"; mail-complaints-to="news@eyrie.org"
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: todd@pangkur.medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
 by: Todd M. McComb - Tue, 30 May 2023 20:46 UTC

In article <2023053016332311643-ads@clipboardinc.com>,
Owen Hartnett <ads@clipboardinc.com> wrote:
>There's always the fear of missing out on something. If my wife
>hears someone raving about some type of food she doesn't like, she
>feels compelled to try it again.

Seems like the place for one of those "There's two kinds of people..."
remarks. It would certainly be interesting if more people had a
"FOMO" regarding contemporary music....

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u55otg$23rpl$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57327&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57327

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pianofor...@yahoo.com (mINE109)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot
cope
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 16:13:13 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <u55otg$23rpl$1@dont-email.me>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
<u534bk$1ktbs$1@dont-email.me> <u53cam$l1a$1@hope.eyrie.org>
<u551e8$20qij$1@dont-email.me> <u55dea$2e1$1@hope.eyrie.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 21:13:20 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="6e23db09a9ddd9a9a946ce2298bdb989";
logging-data="2223925"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+iJSqM8RwQeuYmYtzQ9561"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:pPR8nwr4OcZh1zbiRl+ASaP+Vko=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <u55dea$2e1$1@hope.eyrie.org>
 by: mINE109 - Tue, 30 May 2023 21:13 UTC

On 5/30/23 12:57 PM, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <u551e8$20qij$1@dont-email.me>,
> mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Indeed but ID'ing the point where the tone row appears backwards
>> isn't what you expect from a school kid.
>
> Perhaps I should add that really not many people enjoy Brahms....
> Perhaps some of those who don't believe they should....

There's the Schoenberg/Brahms Piano Quartet orchestration for people who
want their Schoenberg more tonal and their Brahms more colorful.

The mention of brain structure and whether we're wired for "three chords
and the truth" led me to a relatively recent meta analysis:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/20592043221109958

"The Neural Basis of Tonal Processing in Music: An ALE Meta-Analysis"

tl/dr: maybe wired for "communication sounds"

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u55q1p$9sp$1@hope.eyrie.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57329&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57329

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!news.killfile.org!news.eyrie.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot
cope
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 21:32:41 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <u55q1p$9sp$1@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <u551e8$20qij$1@dont-email.me> <u55dea$2e1$1@hope.eyrie.org> <u55otg$23rpl$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 21:32:41 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: hope.eyrie.org;
logging-data="10137"; mail-complaints-to="news@eyrie.org"
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: todd@pangkur.medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
 by: Todd M. McComb - Tue, 30 May 2023 21:32 UTC

In article <u55otg$23rpl$1@dont-email.me>,
mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com> wrote:
>tl/dr: maybe wired for "communication sounds"

Well that seems like a more promising way to look at it... and some
human languages are rather different....

As long as you seemed to enjoy that Xenakis label, E# just added
an introductory paragraph to his Xenakias homage release (pace my
earlier remarks):

>Though weaned on Varese, Hendrix, Trane, Cecil Taylor, Sonny
>Sharrock, Albert Ayler, Stravinsky, Captain Beefheart, Stockhausen:
>the universe cracked open for me in 1968 on first hearing the music
>of Iannis Xenakis, a composer who had captured the glorious chaos
>of subatomic weather in a cloud chamber, found fibrillating grooves
>in burning charcoal, the majestic blues of the elliptical arc, and
>sonified the chaos imbuing the natural order of the universe. While
>most composers made music with notes, Xenakis transformed pure
>philosophies into sound. With his experiences as a mathematician
>and architect equally informing his musical approach, Xenakis
>manifested these connections in emotive and exciting compositions
>that made clear the mapping of independent processes to those in
>sound.

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u564gl$2556c$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57341&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57341

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pianofor...@yahoo.com (mINE109)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot
cope
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 19:31:16 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <u564gl$2556c$1@dont-email.me>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
<u551e8$20qij$1@dont-email.me> <u55dea$2e1$1@hope.eyrie.org>
<u55otg$23rpl$1@dont-email.me> <u55q1p$9sp$1@hope.eyrie.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 00:31:17 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="4ac3bed83b3c13f43b90c062f858a596";
logging-data="2266316"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+r2TvRJfrvvHMaLq6zgYiA"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:eT9Etmcz1cde3hQyTCB5/52oBJk=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <u55q1p$9sp$1@hope.eyrie.org>
 by: mINE109 - Wed, 31 May 2023 00:31 UTC

On 5/30/23 4:32 PM, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <u55otg$23rpl$1@dont-email.me>,
> mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> tl/dr: maybe wired for "communication sounds"
>
> Well that seems like a more promising way to look at it... and some
> human languages are rather different....
>
> As long as you seemed to enjoy that Xenakis label, E# just added
> an introductory paragraph to his Xenakias homage release (pace my
> earlier remarks):
>
>> Though weaned on Varese, Hendrix, Trane, Cecil Taylor, Sonny
>> Sharrock, Albert Ayler, Stravinsky, Captain Beefheart, Stockhausen:
>> the universe cracked open for me in 1968 on first hearing the music
>> of Iannis Xenakis, a composer who had captured the glorious chaos
>> of subatomic weather in a cloud chamber, found fibrillating grooves
>> in burning charcoal, the majestic blues of the elliptical arc, and
>> sonified the chaos imbuing the natural order of the universe. While
>> most composers made music with notes, Xenakis transformed pure
>> philosophies into sound. With his experiences as a mathematician
>> and architect equally informing his musical approach, Xenakis
>> manifested these connections in emotive and exciting compositions
>> that made clear the mapping of independent processes to those in
>> sound.

Somebody connected! It was worth taking a look into Xenakis. I hadn't
seen the anecdote about Messiaen not insisting he study harmony.

Today's listening: Metastaseis and three Pleiades.

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<31a7b321-bb44-49e5-8c18-5a67c44b64c9n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57349&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57349

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:4a5b:b0:626:65b7:84f with SMTP id ph27-20020a0562144a5b00b0062665b7084fmr357785qvb.9.1685502777221;
Tue, 30 May 2023 20:12:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:e716:0:b0:ba7:5bec:7772 with SMTP id
e22-20020a25e716000000b00ba75bec7772mr1830735ybh.5.1685502777048; Tue, 30 May
2023 20:12:57 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 20:12:56 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <u533ou$ec3$1@hope.eyrie.org>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=108.196.186.218; posting-account=_UnN_QoAAABUvVme9gBskGZ8INHdMTy9
NNTP-Posting-Host: 108.196.186.218
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
<u52jgh$1h0ue$1@dont-email.me> <u52tb6$8vk$1@hope.eyrie.org>
<u532hs$1kg88$1@dont-email.me> <u533ou$ec3$1@hope.eyrie.org>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <31a7b321-bb44-49e5-8c18-5a67c44b64c9n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope
From: cyberi...@hotmail.com (number_six)
Injection-Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 03:12:57 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2082
 by: number_six - Wed, 31 May 2023 03:12 UTC

On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 2:00:18 PM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <u532hs$1kg88$1...@dont-email.me>,
> mINE109 <pianof...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >While Part may be relatively passe, he is well represented in
> >choral programs, dance pieces and even an episode of Ted Lasso,
> >all while bypassing the tyranny of ti-do.
> Indeed he seems to illustrate Monk's point, as his music sounds
> little like "classical music." And I would not call it tonal.

miNE109 and Todd -- I would not have thought Part passe, while conceding that most people move more quickly than I do nowadays -- and the zeitgeist along with it...

Maybe the old Estonian earwig still has something up his sleeve...I hope so..

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<u56f3o$pe8$1@hope.eyrie.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57353&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57353

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!news.killfile.org!news.eyrie.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope
Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 03:32:08 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <u56f3o$pe8$1@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <u532hs$1kg88$1@dont-email.me> <u533ou$ec3$1@hope.eyrie.org> <31a7b321-bb44-49e5-8c18-5a67c44b64c9n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 03:32:08 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: hope.eyrie.org;
logging-data="26056"; mail-complaints-to="news@eyrie.org"
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: todd@pangkur.medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
 by: Todd M. McComb - Wed, 31 May 2023 03:32 UTC

In article <31a7b321-bb44-49e5-8c18-5a67c44b64c9n@googlegroups.com>,
number_six <cyberiade@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Maybe the old Estonian earwig still has something up his sleeve...I
>hope so.

Maybe so, no offense intended to Part, but he was established already
in the 90s. An entire generation ago.

Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

<b1a4be51-2491-48bf-b98e-f82ac6981e37n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57355&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57355

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:1710:b0:5ef:5517:dc33 with SMTP id db16-20020a056214171000b005ef5517dc33mr1628027qvb.3.1685506414968;
Tue, 30 May 2023 21:13:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:b1c7:0:b0:564:c5fd:6d98 with SMTP id
p190-20020a81b1c7000000b00564c5fd6d98mr2115533ywh.10.1685506414610; Tue, 30
May 2023 21:13:34 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.1d4.us!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 21:13:34 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <u56f3o$pe8$1@hope.eyrie.org>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2a00:23c8:28b:6801:d524:33d4:59a6:2eab;
posting-account=8bTzzAoAAAC1gnUKfRTQBi2I3-sblKzz
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2a00:23c8:28b:6801:d524:33d4:59a6:2eab
References: <deacb3a8-36ad-4dd0-a8d6-bb39c6ef7e58@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
<u532hs$1kg88$1@dont-email.me> <u533ou$ec3$1@hope.eyrie.org>
<31a7b321-bb44-49e5-8c18-5a67c44b64c9n@googlegroups.com> <u56f3o$pe8$1@hope.eyrie.org>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <b1a4be51-2491-48bf-b98e-f82ac6981e37n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope
From: howie.st...@gmail.com (Mandryka)
Injection-Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 04:13:34 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2093
 by: Mandryka - Wed, 31 May 2023 04:13 UTC

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 4:32:13 AM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <31a7b321-bb44-49e5...@googlegroups.com>,
> number_six <cybe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Maybe the old Estonian earwig still has something up his sleeve...I
> >hope so.
> Maybe so, no offense intended to Part, but he was established already
> in the 90s. An entire generation ago.
As far as I know he found a lucrative winning for formula 25 years ago and has been churning out the same sort of stuff for his public ever since. Perfectly understandable but a shame given the quality of pieces like Kanon Pokajanon and Lamentate and Como una cierva sedienta etc

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor