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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

SubjectAuthor
* The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
+* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Paul Alsing
|+- Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Owen Hartnett
|+* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
||`* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
|| `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
||  `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
||   `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
||    `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
||     `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
||      `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
||       `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Andy Evans
||        +* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Herman
||        |+* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!JohnGavin
||        ||`- Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Andy Evans
||        |+- Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Andy Evans
||        |+- Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Marc S
||        |`- Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
||        `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
||         `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Andy Evans
||          `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
||           `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Frank Berger
||            `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
||             `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Frank Berger
||              `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
||               `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Frank Berger
||                `- Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
|+* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
||`- Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren
|`- Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Frank Berger
`* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Al Eisner
 `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Al Eisner
  `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!JohnGavin
   `* Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!HT
    `- Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!Dan Koren

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The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 30 May 2023 08:16 UTC

https://youtu.be/qSRRbOvpaXg

Unfortunately, not the best interpretation.
This is music that shines through even
through the worst performances!

dk

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: pnals...@gmail.com (Paul Alsing)
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 by: Paul Alsing - Tue, 30 May 2023 15:24 UTC

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 1:16:46 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://youtu.be/qSRRbOvpaXg
>
> Unfortunately, not the best interpretation.
> This is music that shines through even
> through the worst performances!

This version is well-regarded...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BHidUXiMpg&list=PLdFPJBlxZBRaEF8iNdHYzwbYKp0tFvygH

.... Beaux Arts Trio

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

<2023053013570943666-ads@clipboardinc.com>

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From: ads...@clipboardinc.com (Owen Hartnett)
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 13:57:09 -0400
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 by: Owen Hartnett - Tue, 30 May 2023 17:57 UTC

On 2023-05-30 15:24:15 +0000, Paul Alsing said:

> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 1:16:46 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
>> https://youtu.be/qSRRbOvpaXg>> Unfortunately, not the best
>> interpretation.> This is music that shines through even> through the
>> worst performances!
> This version is well-regarded...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BHidUXiMpg&list=PLdFPJBlxZBRaEF8iNdHYzwbYKp0tFvygH
>
>
> ... Beaux Arts Trio

The Schubert Trios are the best things the Beaux Arts did. The piano
part was right in Pressler's wheelhouse, and Greenhouse's Cello is
magnificent. They recorded it twice, the above seems to be the second
version, with Cohen instead of Guilet on violin, but both versions are
good (and the sound is better on the second).

I think that Greenhouse's Stradivarius cello got more publicity than
Greenhouse did. Harper's magazine did an article on the restoration of
"The Countess of Stanlein, ex-Paganini, from 1707", and it was sold at
auction for the some of in excess of $6 million. Last I heard it was on
loan to Stéphane Tétreault who studied at the University of Montreal.
Also, the NYT wrote an article of Greenhouse's last days with the cello.

-Owen

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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From: eis...@slac.stanford.edu (Al Eisner)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 13:44:34 -0700
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 by: Al Eisner - Tue, 30 May 2023 20:44 UTC

On Tue, 30 May 2023, Dan Koren wrote:

> https://youtu.be/qSRRbOvpaXg
>
> Unfortunately, not the best interpretation.
> This is music that shines through even
> through the worst performances!
>
> dk

The Suk Trio in its classic lineup (Suk/Chuchro/Panenka) in 1965:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppnbJTpGjoY (first mvt, remainder
also available at youtube)

and 1975 (same lineup)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrvMuyBwfJo

I have the 1965 on CD, a fine performance; the 1975 is new to me. It
takes the repeat in (i), the 1965 does not. I compared the expositions
of (i), which have nearly the same timings and are similar; some things
stood out to be more in each than in the other. (The 1975 makes something
more of the last bars of the exposition, quite beautiful.) I'll have
to listen through to the 1975 when I can. (There are timing differences
in the other three movements, not all in the same direction.)

Wonderful stuff.
--
Al Eisner

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

<alpine.LRH.2.00.2305301347290.2615@iris02.slac.stanford.edu>

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From: eis...@slac.stanford.edu (Al Eisner)
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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 13:49:04 -0700
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 by: Al Eisner - Tue, 30 May 2023 20:49 UTC

On Tue, 30 May 2023, Al Eisner wrote:

> On Tue, 30 May 2023, Dan Koren wrote:
>
>> https://youtu.be/qSRRbOvpaXg
>>
>> Unfortunately, not the best interpretation.
>> This is music that shines through even
>> through the worst performances!
>>
>> dk
>
> The Suk Trio in its classic lineup (Suk/Chuchro/Panenka) in 1965:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppnbJTpGjoY (first mvt, remainder
> also available at youtube)
>
> and 1975 (same lineup)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrvMuyBwfJo
>
> I have the 1965 on CD, a fine performance; the 1975 is new to me. It takes
> the repeat in (i), the 1965 does not. I compared the expositions
> of (i), which have nearly the same timings and are similar; some things
> stood out to be more in each than in the other. (The 1975 makes something
> more of the last bars of the exposition, quite beautiful.) I'll have
> to listen through to the 1975 when I can. (There are timing differences
> in the other three movements, not all in the same direction.)
>
> Wonderful stuff.
>
"stood out to me", not "be".
--
Al Eisner

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: dagd...@gmail.com (JohnGavin)
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 by: JohnGavin - Tue, 30 May 2023 21:00 UTC

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 4:49:11 PM UTC-4, Al Eisner wrote:
> On Tue, 30 May 2023, Al Eisner wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 30 May 2023, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> >> https://youtu.be/qSRRbOvpaXg
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, not the best interpretation.
> >> This is music that shines through even
> >> through the worst performances!
> >>
> >> dk
> >
> > The Suk Trio in its classic lineup (Suk/Chuchro/Panenka) in 1965:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppnbJTpGjoY (first mvt, remainder
> > also available at youtube)
> >
> > and 1975 (same lineup)
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrvMuyBwfJo
> >
> > I have the 1965 on CD, a fine performance; the 1975 is new to me. It takes
> > the repeat in (i), the 1965 does not. I compared the expositions
> > of (i), which have nearly the same timings and are similar; some things
> > stood out to be more in each than in the other. (The 1975 makes something
> > more of the last bars of the exposition, quite beautiful.) I'll have
> > to listen through to the 1975 when I can. (There are timing differences
> > in the other three movements, not all in the same direction.)
> >
> > Wonderful stuff.
> >
> "stood out to me", not "be".
> --
> Al Eisner

I already know that nobody is going to like this version anymore. It occurred to me when listening to this famous group that I can enjoy chamber music when all the players are not trying to sound like a homogenized unity, but rather exert some of their own individuality, so I’m posting it anyway.

https://youtu.be/zdT7y5p4Y3o

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: hvtu...@xs4all.nl (HT)
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 by: HT - Tue, 30 May 2023 21:34 UTC

> I already know that nobody is going to like this version anymore. It occurred to me when listening to this famous group that I can enjoy chamber music when all the players are not trying to sound like a homogenized unity, but rather exert some of their own individuality, so I’m posting it anyway.
>
> https://youtu.be/zdT7y5p4Y3o

Thanks! It's great fun to watch. Rubinstein banging his way through the music, not caring one bit what the others are doing, Heifetz intent on playing all the notes as precisely as possible, and Piatogorsky being as unobtrusive as the situation allows. Three great musicians united only by a score.

Henk

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 30 May 2023 22:32 UTC

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 2:34:56 PM UTC-7, HT wrote:
> >
> > I already know that nobody is going to like this version
> > anymore. It occurred to me when listening to this famous
> > group that I can enjoy chamber music when all the players
> > are not trying to sound like a homogenized unity, but rather
> > exert some of their own individuality, so I’m posting it anyway..
> >
> > https://youtu.be/zdT7y5p4Y3o
>
> Thanks! It's great fun to watch. Rubinstein banging his way through
> the music, not caring one bit what the others are doing, Heifetz intent
> on playing all the notes as precisely as possible, and Piatogorsky being
> as unobtrusive as the situation allows. Three great musicians united only
> by a score.

Unfortunately recording quality leaves a lot to be desired.

dk

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 30 May 2023 22:36 UTC

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 8:24:19 AM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 1:16:46 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > https://youtu.be/qSRRbOvpaXg
> >
> > Unfortunately, not the best interpretation.
> > This is music that shines through even
> > through the worst performances!
>
> This version is well-regarded...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BHidUXiMpg

This is very well known, and to my ears an
example of how not to perform this work.
Listen to the way Presslers stomps the
opening phrase, and compare with the
reference Cortot/Thibaud/Casals:

https://youtu.be/gHnnTMDKbG0

dk

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 30 May 2023 22:38 UTC

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 8:24:19 AM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 1:16:46 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > https://youtu.be/qSRRbOvpaXg
> >
> > Unfortunately, not the best interpretation.
> > This is music that shines through even
> > through the worst performances!
>
> This version is well-regarded...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BHidUXiMpg

This is a better performance:

https://youtu.be/gHnnTMDKbG0

dk

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 30 May 2023 22:48 UTC

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:36:19 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 8:24:19 AM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 1:16:46 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > https://youtu.be/qSRRbOvpaXg
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, not the best interpretation.
> > > This is music that shines through even
> > > through the worst performances!
> >
> > This version is well-regarded...
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BHidUXiMpg
>
> This is very well known, and to my ears an
> example of how not to perform this work.
> Listen to the way Presslers stomps the
> opening phrase, and compare with the
> reference Cortot/Thibaud/Casals:
>
> https://youtu.be/gHnnTMDKbG0

Another historical reference in horrible
sound: Schnabel/Szigeti/Fournier:

https://youtu.be/GxzacQleMTw

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 30 May 2023 22:49 UTC

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:48:03 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> Another historical reference in horrible
> sound: Schnabel/Szigeti/Fournier:
>
> https://youtu.be/GxzacQleMTw

Oistrakh / Knushevitsky / Oborin

https://youtu.be/yfrwcO5CR4c

A little too heavy handed for my
ears.

dk

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 30 May 2023 22:56 UTC

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:49:33 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:48:03 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > Another historical reference in horrible
> > sound: Schnabel/Szigeti/Fournier:
> >
> > https://youtu.be/GxzacQleMTw
>
> Oistrakh / Knushevitsky / Oborin
>
> https://youtu.be/yfrwcO5CR4c
>
> A little too heavy handed for my
> ears.

To my ears the Ravello Trio has the
right balance between piano and
strings:

https://youtu.be/SDvgYg5azHc

Unfortunately still too alla marcia
in the opening, and too metronomic
in general. Nice sound however.

dk

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 30 May 2023 23:00 UTC

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:38:55 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 8:24:19 AM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 1:16:46 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > https://youtu.be/qSRRbOvpaXg
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, not the best interpretation.
> > > This is music that shines through even
> > > through the worst performances!
> >
> > This version is well-regarded...
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BHidUXiMpg
>
> This is a better performance:
>
> https://youtu.be/gHnnTMDKbG0

And this is arguably the cleanest
transfer available on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/m4kkuX8Z2Tk

Melmoth, take note! ;-)

dk

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 30 May 2023 23:05 UTC

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:56:40 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:49:33 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:48:03 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > >
> > > Another historical reference in horrible
> > > sound: Schnabel/Szigeti/Fournier:
> > >
> > > https://youtu.be/GxzacQleMTw
> >
> > Oistrakh / Knushevitsky / Oborin
> >
> > https://youtu.be/yfrwcO5CR4c
> >
> > A little too heavy handed for my
> > ears.
>
> To my ears the Ravello Trio has the
> right balance between piano and
> strings:
>
> https://youtu.be/SDvgYg5azHc
>
> Unfortunately still too alla marcia
> in the opening, and too metronomic
> in general. Nice sound however.
>

Sir Menuhin & Co. sound just right:

https://youtu.be/mJSJNYoPToo

dk

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 30 May 2023 23:51 UTC

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 4:05:22 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:56:40 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:49:33 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:48:03 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Another historical reference in horrible
> > > > sound: Schnabel/Szigeti/Fournier:
> > > >
> > > > https://youtu.be/GxzacQleMTw
> > >
> > > Oistrakh / Knushevitsky / Oborin
> > >
> > > https://youtu.be/yfrwcO5CR4c
> > >
> > > A little too heavy handed for my
> > > ears.
> >
> > To my ears the Ravello Trio has the
> > right balance between piano and
> > strings:
> >
> > https://youtu.be/SDvgYg5azHc
> >
> > Unfortunately still too alla marcia
> > in the opening, and too metronomic
> > in general. Nice sound however.
>
> Sir Menuhin & Co. sound just right:
>
> https://youtu.be/mJSJNYoPToo

In summary: My ears do not find any
of the performances mentioned in this
thread entirely satifactory. This work is
very difficult to pull of musically. Most
performances I heard tended to sound
like sonatas for piano + strings rather
than trios for a balanced ensemble.

dk

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Wed, 31 May 2023 01:51 UTC

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 4:51:22 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 4:05:22 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:56:40 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:49:33 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:48:03 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Another historical reference in horrible
> > > > > sound: Schnabel/Szigeti/Fournier:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://youtu.be/GxzacQleMTw
> > > >
> > > > Oistrakh / Knushevitsky / Oborin
> > > >
> > > > https://youtu.be/yfrwcO5CR4c
> > > >
> > > > A little too heavy handed for my
> > > > ears.
> > >
> > > To my ears the Ravello Trio has the
> > > right balance between piano and
> > > strings:
> > >
> > > https://youtu.be/SDvgYg5azHc
> > >
> > > Unfortunately still too alla marcia
> > > in the opening, and too metronomic
> > > in general. Nice sound however.
> >
> > Sir Menuhin & Co. sound just right:
> >
> > https://youtu.be/mJSJNYoPToo
>
> In summary: My ears do not find any
> of the performances mentioned in this
> thread entirely satifactory. This work is
> very difficult to pull of musically. Most
> performances I heard tended to sound
> like sonatas for piano + strings rather
> than trios for a balanced ensemble.

Ashkenazy/Saccharine/Harrell
not bad at all:

https://youtu.be/tOp6geTmR-M

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Wed, 31 May 2023 07:38 UTC

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 6:51:25 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 4:51:22 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 4:05:22 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:56:40 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:49:33 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:48:03 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another historical reference in horrible
> > > > > > sound: Schnabel/Szigeti/Fournier:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://youtu.be/GxzacQleMTw
> > > > >
> > > > > Oistrakh / Knushevitsky / Oborin
> > > > >
> > > > > https://youtu.be/yfrwcO5CR4c
> > > > >
> > > > > A little too heavy handed for my
> > > > > ears.
> > > >
> > > > To my ears the Ravello Trio has the
> > > > right balance between piano and
> > > > strings:
> > > >
> > > > https://youtu.be/SDvgYg5azHc
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately still too alla marcia
> > > > in the opening, and too metronomic
> > > > in general. Nice sound however.
> > >
> > > Sir Menuhin & Co. sound just right:
> > >
> > > https://youtu.be/mJSJNYoPToo
> >
> > In summary: My ears do not find any
> > of the performances mentioned in this
> > thread entirely satifactory. This work is
> > very difficult to pull of musically. Most
> > performances I heard tended to sound
> > like sonatas for piano + strings rather
> > than trios for a balanced ensemble.
>
> Ashkenazy/Saccharine/Harrell
> not bad at all:
>
> https://youtu.be/tOp6geTmR-M

The Merz Trio sounds interesting:

https://youtu.be/qWFrKxxTwag

dk

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: performa...@gmail.com (Andy Evans)
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 by: Andy Evans - Wed, 31 May 2023 09:45 UTC

I've always preferred the Archduke, but that's just me.

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: her...@yahoo.com (Herman)
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 by: Herman - Wed, 31 May 2023 10:01 UTC

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 11:45:51 AM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> I've always preferred the Archduke, but that's just me.

OMG there are sooo many piano trios that are more rewarding than Schubert's stomping thru the Alps singalong.

Dare one invoke Mozart, Ravel, Fauré, Dvorak? There are at least a dozen of Haydn masterpieces in the genre that are way more refined and rich than Schubert?

Also, the claim that it's so hard to bring off is yet another specimen of fake connoisseurship. Any piano trio can do this, provided the piano is kept in check; same with the violin - cello unisono. Combining fiddle and keyboard was a challenge for Schubert.

Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: dagd...@gmail.com (JohnGavin)
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 by: JohnGavin - Wed, 31 May 2023 10:49 UTC

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 6:01:29 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 11:45:51 AM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> > I've always preferred the Archduke, but that's just me.
> OMG there are sooo many piano trios that are more rewarding than Schubert's stomping thru the Alps singalong.
>
> Dare one invoke Mozart, Ravel, Fauré, Dvorak? There are at least a dozen of Haydn masterpieces in the genre that are way more refined and rich than Schubert?
>
> Also, the claim that it's so hard to bring off is yet another specimen of fake connoisseurship. Any piano trio can do this, provided the piano is kept in check; same with the violin - cello unisono. Combining fiddle and keyboard was a challenge for Schubert.

It points out that thinking in terms of the “greatest” this or that, being interpretations of a work, or a work in a specific genre, is a futile exercise. It’s too rigid an attitude. What probably ends up happening is that the perfect performance is no longer a favorite because the listener changes with time.

I find that different performers bring out different aspects of a composition. For me the Heifetz-Piatagorsky-Rubinstein recordings challenge the notion that chamber music groups should sound homogenized and pasteurized all the time. Each to his/her own.

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: performa...@gmail.com (Andy Evans)
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 by: Andy Evans - Wed, 31 May 2023 11:39 UTC

On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 11:49:40 UTC+1, JohnGavin wrote:

> I find that different performers bring out different aspects of a composition. For me the Heifetz-Piatagorsky-Rubinstein recordings challenge the notion that chamber music groups should sound homogenized and pasteurized all the time. Each to his/her own.

I love the Heifetz Mendelssohn Octet. OK he makes it sound like a violin concerto but it's glorious.

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: performa...@gmail.com (Andy Evans)
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 by: Andy Evans - Wed, 31 May 2023 11:41 UTC

On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 11:01:29 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 11:45:51 AM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> > I've always preferred the Archduke, but that's just me.
> OMG there are sooo many piano trios that are more rewarding than Schubert's stomping thru the Alps singalong.

Ha Ha - I like that.

> Dare one invoke Mozart, Ravel, Fauré, Dvorak? There are at least a dozen of Haydn masterpieces in the genre that are way more refined and rich than Schubert?

Invoke away - sure, Ravel, Dvorak for starters

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 31 May 2023 11:50 UTC

Herman schrieb am Mittwoch, 31. Mai 2023 um 12:01:29 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 11:45:51 AM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> > I've always preferred the Archduke, but that's just me.
> OMG there are sooo many piano trios that are more rewarding than Schubert's stomping thru the Alps singalong.
>

So this is how "connoisseurs" - like Herman - speak about one of Schubert's masterpieces... fortunately the educated folks of the music schools view this differently than "connoisseurs" like Herman...

Reads like it was written by some teenage girl btw: "OMG therare s-ooo- many"... Oh Herman... what a joke you are.

> Dare one invoke Mozart, Ravel, Fauré, Dvorak? There are at least a dozen of Haydn masterpieces in the genre that are way more refined and rich than Schubert?
>
> Also, the claim that it's so hard to bring off is yet another specimen of fake connoisseurship. Any piano trio can do this, provided the piano is kept in check; same with the violin - cello unisono. Combining fiddle and keyboard was a challenge for Schubert.

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Subject: Re: The greatest piano trio ever written!
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Wed, 31 May 2023 17:32 UTC

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> I've always preferred the Archduke, but that's just me.

Not surprising from a British Monarchist Royalist! ;-)

dk

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