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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

SubjectAuthor
* OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsDan Koren
+- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsgggg gggg
+* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsgggg gggg
|+* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsgggg gggg
||`- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsDan Koren
|`- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsDan Koren
+- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsgggg gggg
+* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsgggg gggg
|`* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsOscar
| `- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsDan Koren
+* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsgggg gggg
|`- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsDan Koren
+* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsMarc S
|`* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsDan Koren
| `* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsMarc S
|  +- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsMarc S
|  `* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsDan Koren
|   `* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsMarc S
|    `* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsDan Koren
|     `- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsMarc S
+* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsMarc S
|+- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsMarc S
|+- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsMarc S
|+- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsMarc S
|`* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsMarc S
| `* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsAndrew Clarke
|  +* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsMarc S
|  |`- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsAndrew Clarke
|  +- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsAndy Evans
|  `* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsDan Koren
|   +* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsFrank Berger
|   |`* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsDan Koren
|   | +- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40Frank Berger
|   | `- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsFrank Berger
|   `* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsAndrew Clarke
|    +- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsAndrew Clarke
|    `* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40Frank Berger
|     `- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsAndrew Clarke
+- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsMarc S
+- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsgggg gggg
+- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsgggg gggg
+* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsgggg gggg
|`* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsAndrew Clarke
| `- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsAndrew Clarke
+- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsgggg gggg
+- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsgggg gggg
+* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsgggg gggg
|`- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsAndrew Clarke
+- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsgggg gggg
`* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsgggg gggg
 `* Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsmaxi...@gmail.com
  `- Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 yearsAndrew Clarke

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Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Mon, 29 May 2023 17:39 UTC

Marc S schrieb am Montag, 29. Mai 2023 um 18:25:21 UTC+2:
> Dan Koren schrieb am Mittwoch, 7. Dezember 2022 um 07:16:36 UTC+1:
> > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
> >
> > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
> >
> > Who would have thought?
> >
> > dk
> Also, interesting to note: How they take a picture of a British soldier? standing infront of a train... Neet psychological trick if done on purpose; or maybe it's just the act of the subconsciousness - in any case, it shows how deluded these people are.
>
> Note also the text displayed under said picture - no context given, just pure propaganda.
>
> Today, lieber Dan, it's not just that people deny the shoah, but they want to claim it for themselves...
>
> Look what a simple google search "british killed 100 million indians holocaust" brought me to:
>
> ""It was a holocaust, one where millions disappeared. It was a necessary holocaust in the British view because they thought the only way to win was to destroy entire populations in towns and villages. It was simple and brutal. Indians who stood in their way were killed. But its scale has been kept a secret," Misra told the Guardian."

*To be added: Misra's casualty claims have been challenged in India and Britain. "It is very difficult to assess the extent of the reprisals simply because we cannot say for sure if some of these populations did not just leave a conflict zone rather than being killed," said Shabi Ahmad, head of the 1857 project at the Indian Council of Historical Research. "It could have been migration rather than murder that depopulated areas."

Many view exaggeration rather than deceit in Misra's calculations. A British historian, Saul David, author of The Indian Mutiny, said it was valid to count the death toll but reckoned that it ran into "hundreds of thousands".

"It looks like an overestimate. There were definitely famines that cost millions of lives, which were exacerbated by British ruthlessness. You don't need these figures or talk of holocausts to hammer imperialism. It has a pretty bad track record."

>
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/aug/24/india.randeepramesh
>
> This is very good news for us Germans, as now we are not the only ones who have committed a holocaust ;) (*ofc there was such thing as the Armenian genocide, but I'm not sure if it is of the same quality - I would guess not, would have to look into it more deeply).
>
> So according to Al Jazeera basically: The Brits committed a holocaust on the Indians and the Israelis are doing it today with the Palestinians...
>
> Maybe check out the Palestinian Holocaust museum:
>
> "In addition to the pictures depicting the Nazi brutality against Jews in Europe, there are also images of the Palestinian Nakba (catastrophe) following the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 and the violence in Palestine since.
>
> On one wall, there is a picture of a scared Jewish boy holding up his hands as Nazi soldiers look on; the caption reads: “Make your final account with Hitler and the Nazi Germans, not with the Palestinians.”
>
> On an adjacent wall there are photos of dead children, demolished homes and women screaming during the Israeli war on Gaza in January."
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2009/4/30/palestines-holocaust-museum
>
> See how generous these Palestinians are? They do not only commemorate the Palestinian Holocaust for which Israel is responsible, but also the shoah.
>
> Maybe Israel could learn a bit of this and commemorate the Palestinian Holocaust in Yad Vashem? That would maybe be a step towards peace... What do you think, Dan?
>
> Should be no wonder, why Andy is completely brainwashed wrt Israel taking this 'news' paper seriously...

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Wed, 31 May 2023 11:20 UTC

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:39:09 AM UTC+10, Marc S wrote:
> Marc S schrieb am Montag, 29. Mai 2023 um 18:25:21 UTC+2:
> > Dan Koren schrieb am Mittwoch, 7. Dezember 2022 um 07:16:36 UTC+1:
> > > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
> > >
> > > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
> > >
> > > Who would have thought?
> > >
> > > dk
> > Also, interesting to note: How they take a picture of a British soldier? standing infront of a train... Neet psychological trick if done on purpose; or maybe it's just the act of the subconsciousness - in any case, it shows how deluded these people are.
> >
> > Note also the text displayed under said picture - no context given, just pure propaganda.
> >
> > Today, lieber Dan, it's not just that people deny the shoah, but they want to claim it for themselves...
> >
> > Look what a simple google search "british killed 100 million indians holocaust" brought me to:
> >
> > ""It was a holocaust, one where millions disappeared. It was a necessary holocaust in the British view because they thought the only way to win was to destroy entire populations in towns and villages. It was simple and brutal. Indians who stood in their way were killed. But its scale has been kept a secret," Misra told the Guardian."
> *To be added: Misra's casualty claims have been challenged in India and Britain. "It is very difficult to assess the extent of the reprisals simply because we cannot say for sure if some of these populations did not just leave a conflict zone rather than being killed," said Shabi Ahmad, head of the 1857 project at the Indian Council of Historical Research. "It could have been migration rather than murder that depopulated areas."
>
> Many view exaggeration rather than deceit in Misra's calculations. A British historian, Saul David, author of The Indian Mutiny, said it was valid to count the death toll but reckoned that it ran into "hundreds of thousands".
>
> "It looks like an overestimate. There were definitely famines that cost millions of lives, which were exacerbated by British ruthlessness. You don't need these figures or talk of holocausts to hammer imperialism. It has a pretty bad track record."
> >
> > https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/aug/24/india.randeepramesh
> >
> > This is very good news for us Germans, as now we are not the only ones who have committed a holocaust ;) (*ofc there was such thing as the Armenian genocide, but I'm not sure if it is of the same quality - I would guess not, would have to look into it more deeply).
> >
> > So according to Al Jazeera basically: The Brits committed a holocaust on the Indians and the Israelis are doing it today with the Palestinians...
> >
> > Maybe check out the Palestinian Holocaust museum:
> >
> > "In addition to the pictures depicting the Nazi brutality against Jews in Europe, there are also images of the Palestinian Nakba (catastrophe) following the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 and the violence in Palestine since.
> >
> > On one wall, there is a picture of a scared Jewish boy holding up his hands as Nazi soldiers look on; the caption reads: “Make your final account with Hitler and the Nazi Germans, not with the Palestinians.”
> >
> > On an adjacent wall there are photos of dead children, demolished homes and women screaming during the Israeli war on Gaza in January."
> >
> > https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2009/4/30/palestines-holocaust-museum
> >
> > See how generous these Palestinians are? They do not only commemorate the Palestinian Holocaust for which Israel is responsible, but also the shoah.
> >
> > Maybe Israel could learn a bit of this and commemorate the Palestinian Holocaust in Yad Vashem? That would maybe be a step towards peace... What do you think, Dan?
> >
> > Should be no wonder, why Andy is completely brainwashed wrt Israel taking this 'news' paper seriously...

You do not run a successful colony by murdering its labour force and expropriating its resources. This is like trying to run a restaurant by poisoning your staff and taking all the food home and keeping it in the cellar for your own use.

Narendra Depesh Modi is a very capable prime minister, but he has some very unpleasant friends. Ask the dalits beaten or killed for allegedly eating beef or converting to Christianity, or the Muslims crowded into the slums of Mumbai or Kolkata, or even the Sikhs campaigning for their own homeland.

At this point, some Indian is going to start shouting about British Divide and Rule, even though it's 75 years since Swaraj. They will probably be shouting about British Divide and Rule Rule 500 years after Swaraj. It's a very convenient excuse. African dictators love it too.

Speaking of the Sikhs, the previous owner of the Kohinoor Diamond was a Sikh emperor in the Punjab. The diamond belongs to his descendants,and not to "India", a concept which did not exist at the time, being paradoxically a creation of the Raj.

Mr Modi is now running around the world demanding tbe repatriation of Indian antiquities from museums, and you do have to ask why? Even if successful, this isn't going to help the Bihari peasant farmer who has to leave his family behind for half the year and work as a casual labourer far, far away in order to feed his family and pay off his debts.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 31 May 2023 11:43 UTC

Andrew Clarke schrieb am Mittwoch, 31. Mai 2023 um 13:20:16 UTC+2:
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:39:09 AM UTC+10, Marc S wrote:
> > Marc S schrieb am Montag, 29. Mai 2023 um 18:25:21 UTC+2:
> > > Dan Koren schrieb am Mittwoch, 7. Dezember 2022 um 07:16:36 UTC+1:
> > > > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
> > > >
> > > > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
> > > >
> > > > Who would have thought?
> > > >
> > > > dk
> > > Also, interesting to note: How they take a picture of a British soldier? standing infront of a train... Neet psychological trick if done on purpose; or maybe it's just the act of the subconsciousness - in any case, it shows how deluded these people are.
> > >
> > > Note also the text displayed under said picture - no context given, just pure propaganda.
> > >
> > > Today, lieber Dan, it's not just that people deny the shoah, but they want to claim it for themselves...
> > >
> > > Look what a simple google search "british killed 100 million indians holocaust" brought me to:
> > >
> > > ""It was a holocaust, one where millions disappeared. It was a necessary holocaust in the British view because they thought the only way to win was to destroy entire populations in towns and villages. It was simple and brutal. Indians who stood in their way were killed. But its scale has been kept a secret," Misra told the Guardian."
> > *To be added: Misra's casualty claims have been challenged in India and Britain. "It is very difficult to assess the extent of the reprisals simply because we cannot say for sure if some of these populations did not just leave a conflict zone rather than being killed," said Shabi Ahmad, head of the 1857 project at the Indian Council of Historical Research. "It could have been migration rather than murder that depopulated areas."
> >
> > Many view exaggeration rather than deceit in Misra's calculations. A British historian, Saul David, author of The Indian Mutiny, said it was valid to count the death toll but reckoned that it ran into "hundreds of thousands".
> >
> > "It looks like an overestimate. There were definitely famines that cost millions of lives, which were exacerbated by British ruthlessness. You don't need these figures or talk of holocausts to hammer imperialism. It has a pretty bad track record."
> > >
> > > https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/aug/24/india.randeepramesh
> > >
> > > This is very good news for us Germans, as now we are not the only ones who have committed a holocaust ;) (*ofc there was such thing as the Armenian genocide, but I'm not sure if it is of the same quality - I would guess not, would have to look into it more deeply).
> > >
> > > So according to Al Jazeera basically: The Brits committed a holocaust on the Indians and the Israelis are doing it today with the Palestinians....
> > >
> > > Maybe check out the Palestinian Holocaust museum:
> > >
> > > "In addition to the pictures depicting the Nazi brutality against Jews in Europe, there are also images of the Palestinian Nakba (catastrophe) following the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 and the violence in Palestine since.
> > >
> > > On one wall, there is a picture of a scared Jewish boy holding up his hands as Nazi soldiers look on; the caption reads: “Make your final account with Hitler and the Nazi Germans, not with the Palestinians.”
> > >
> > > On an adjacent wall there are photos of dead children, demolished homes and women screaming during the Israeli war on Gaza in January."
> > >
> > > https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2009/4/30/palestines-holocaust-museum
> > >
> > > See how generous these Palestinians are? They do not only commemorate the Palestinian Holocaust for which Israel is responsible, but also the shoah.
> > >
> > > Maybe Israel could learn a bit of this and commemorate the Palestinian Holocaust in Yad Vashem? That would maybe be a step towards peace... What do you think, Dan?
> > >
> > > Should be no wonder, why Andy is completely brainwashed wrt Israel taking this 'news' paper seriously...
> You do not run a successful colony by murdering its labour force and expropriating its resources. This is like trying to run a restaurant by poisoning your staff and taking all the food home and keeping it in the cellar for your own use.

Look, Andrew the Ape, as opposed to you I get that noone is perfect and that the Brits can be criticised for some things they did in India; this was not my point at all Mr Monkeybrain.

My point was: That the Al Jazeera article is pure propaganda and that no reputable historian believes that the brits killed 100 million indians in 40 years... - no need to be a historian btw, you just need to be able to reflect critically which you obviously have problems with.

I am not going to waste my time addressing the rest of your post - from what I've seen it is all completely besides any point I made; I'll rather enjoy my pizza - thanks.

Karl Marx: "The question is not whether the English had a right to conquer India, but whether we are to prefer India conquered by the Turk, by the Persian, by the Russian, to India conquered by the Briton."

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: performa...@gmail.com (Andy Evans)
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 by: Andy Evans - Wed, 31 May 2023 18:27 UTC

On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 12:20:16 UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:

> Narendra Depesh Modi is a very capable prime minister, but he has some very unpleasant friends. Ask the dalits beaten or killed for allegedly eating beef or converting to Christianity, or the Muslims crowded into the slums of Mumbai or Kolkata, or even the Sikhs campaigning for their own homeland.
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

Indeed. I have a good friend in India who things the government is vile, and I'm sure he's not alone. Modi hasn't been capable of reducing emissions - in 2022 they increased by 7.5%, more than any other country. I suppose looking at the situations in Libya and Iraq you could say a bad leader is better than anarchy, and since I know little of Indian politics I don't know who would be a better replacement. Seems to me the social culture in India is as much to blame as the leaders they have.

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Wed, 31 May 2023 18:51 UTC

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 4:20:16 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
> You do not run a successful colony by murdering
> its labour force and expropriating its resources.

Have you ever read history? If so, please explain
in detail how the British, the Spanish, the French,
the Dutch and the Portuguese ran "successful"
colonies. And don't forget the Belgians.

> This is like trying to run a restaurant by poisoning
> your staff and taking all the food home and keeping
> it in the cellar for your own use.

Cute, though not relevant. Sounds like you may be
outsmarting yourself.

dk

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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From: frankdbe...@gmail.com (Frank Berger)
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 by: Frank Berger - Wed, 31 May 2023 20:35 UTC

On 5/31/2023 2:51 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 4:20:16 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>
>> You do not run a successful colony by murdering
>> its labour force and expropriating its resources.
>
> Have you ever read history? If so, please explain
> in detail how the British, the Spanish, the French,
> the Dutch and the Portuguese ran "successful"
> colonies. And don't forget the Belgians.
>
>> This is like trying to run a restaurant by poisoning
>> your staff and taking all the food home and keeping
>> it in the cellar for your own use.
>
> Cute, though not relevant. Sounds like you may be
> outsmarting yourself.
>
> dk

I would think optimal colonial policy would be to abuse the colony up to the point where they revolt.

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Wed, 31 May 2023 20:41 UTC

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 1:36:08 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 5/31/2023 2:51 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 4:20:16 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >>
> >> You do not run a successful colony by murdering
> >> its labour force and expropriating its resources.
> >
> > Have you ever read history? If so, please explain
> > in detail how the British, the Spanish, the French,
> > the Dutch and the Portuguese ran "successful"
> > colonies. And don't forget the Belgians.
> >
> >> This is like trying to run a restaurant by poisoning
> >> your staff and taking all the food home and keeping
> >> it in the cellar for your own use.
> >
> > Cute, though not relevant. Sounds like you may be
> > outsmarting yourself.
>
> I would think optimal colonial policy would be to
> abuse the colony up to the point where they revolt.

Isn't this exactly what happened almost everywhere?

dk

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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 by: Frank Berger - Wed, 31 May 2023 21:33 UTC

On 5/31/2023 4:41 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 1:36:08 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 5/31/2023 2:51 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 4:20:16 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You do not run a successful colony by murdering
>>>> its labour force and expropriating its resources.
>>>
>>> Have you ever read history? If so, please explain
>>> in detail how the British, the Spanish, the French,
>>> the Dutch and the Portuguese ran "successful"
>>> colonies. And don't forget the Belgians.
>>>
>>>> This is like trying to run a restaurant by poisoning
>>>> your staff and taking all the food home and keeping
>>>> it in the cellar for your own use.
>>>
>>> Cute, though not relevant. Sounds like you may be
>>> outsmarting yourself.
>>
>> I would think optimal colonial policy would be to
>> abuse the colony up to the point where they revolt.
>
> Isn't this exactly what happened almost everywhere?
>
> dk

Sure.

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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 by: Frank Berger - Wed, 31 May 2023 21:34 UTC

On 5/31/2023 4:41 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 1:36:08 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 5/31/2023 2:51 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 4:20:16 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You do not run a successful colony by murdering
>>>> its labour force and expropriating its resources.
>>>
>>> Have you ever read history? If so, please explain
>>> in detail how the British, the Spanish, the French,
>>> the Dutch and the Portuguese ran "successful"
>>> colonies. And don't forget the Belgians.
>>>
>>>> This is like trying to run a restaurant by poisoning
>>>> your staff and taking all the food home and keeping
>>>> it in the cellar for your own use.
>>>
>>> Cute, though not relevant. Sounds like you may be
>>> outsmarting yourself.
>>
>> I would think optimal colonial policy would be to
>> abuse the colony up to the point where they revolt.
>
> Isn't this exactly what happened almost everywhere?
>
> dk

Did I say not?

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 01:15 UTC

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 4:51:50 AM UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 4:20:16 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >
> > You do not run a successful colony by murdering
> > its labour force and expropriating its resources.
> Have you ever read history? If so, please explain
> in detail how the British, the Spanish, the French,
> the Dutch and the Portuguese ran "successful"
> colonies. And don't forget the Belgians.
> > This is like trying to run a restaurant by poisoning
> > your staff and taking all the food home and keeping
> > it in the cellar for your own use.
> Cute, though not relevant. Sounds like you may be
> outsmarting yourself.
>
> dk

The metaphor is absolutely relevant. Colonisers invest in colonies in order to maintain them as a going concern. That is why the smash 'n' grab theory of colonial economics, often proposed on You Tube and which you and Frank seem to have swallowed hook, line and sinker.

Most colonies were successful in that they made money for those who invested in them, and provided facilities like railways, electricity, irrigation, medical services, etc. which are still there.

You might want to consider the fate of colonies after they "revolted". India is noteworthy in that it has maintained the parliamentary and constitutional arrangements set up before the Raj ended in 1947, with the exception of the bit that outlawed tne caste system. Others rapidly deteriorated into one-party states and military dictatorships, where brutality and corruption were, and are, rampant. Ask yourself: if I were an African, would I be better off in British Rhodesia or in modern Zimbabwe, essentially a one party state where the currency is worthless, and those who do not know someone in the ruling party live from hand to mouth. Are the residents of the South African townships any better off materially than they were under apartheid, let alone under British rule?

Incidentally, most British colonies did not 'revolt'. Independence movements started and negotiated with the British government for independence, which was usually achieved without bloodshed.

And before you start banging on about colonial exploitation you might want to look at the living conditions of share croppers, tenant farmers and coal miners in the Deep South, white and black, post-Reconstruction. It's been said that the slaves ate better than an Arkansas hill farmer in the 1880s, the latter occupying a two-roomed shack, subsisting on a diet of corn and salt pork and liable to catch typhoid, dysentry, yellow fever and pellagra. And it wasn't even a colony.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 01:18 UTC

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 11:15:05 AM UTC+10, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 4:51:50 AM UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 4:20:16 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > >
> > > You do not run a successful colony by murdering
> > > its labour force and expropriating its resources.
> > Have you ever read history? If so, please explain
> > in detail how the British, the Spanish, the French,
> > the Dutch and the Portuguese ran "successful"
> > colonies. And don't forget the Belgians.
> > > This is like trying to run a restaurant by poisoning
> > > your staff and taking all the food home and keeping
> > > it in the cellar for your own use.
> > Cute, though not relevant. Sounds like you may be
> > outsmarting yourself.
> >
> > dk
> The metaphor is absolutely relevant. Colonisers invest in colonies in order to maintain them as a going concern. That is why the smash 'n' grab theory of colonial economics, often proposed on You Tube and which you and Frank seem to have swallowed hook, line and sinker.
>
> Most colonies were successful in that they made money for those who invested in them, and provided facilities like railways, electricity, irrigation, medical services, etc. which are still there.
>
> You might want to consider the fate of colonies after they "revolted". India is noteworthy in that it has maintained the parliamentary and constitutional arrangements set up before the Raj ended in 1947, with the exception of the bit that outlawed tne caste system. Others rapidly deteriorated into one-party states and military dictatorships, where brutality and corruption were, and are, rampant. Ask yourself: if I were an African, would I be better off in British Rhodesia or in modern Zimbabwe, essentially a one party state where the currency is worthless, and those who do not know someone in the ruling party live from hand to mouth. Are the residents of the South African townships any better off materially than they were under apartheid, let alone under British rule?
>
> Incidentally, most British colonies did not 'revolt'. Independence movements started and negotiated with the British government for independence, which was usually achieved without bloodshed.
>
> And before you start banging on about colonial exploitation you might want to look at the living conditions of share croppers, tenant farmers and coal miners in the Deep South, white and black, post-Reconstruction. It's been said that the slaves ate better than an Arkansas hill farmer in the 1880s, the latter occupying a two-roomed shack, subsisting on a diet of corn and salt pork and liable to catch typhoid, dysentry, yellow fever and pellagra.. And it wasn't even a colony.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

Correction: "smash and grab theory ... is so hopelessly wrong."

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40
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 by: Frank Berger - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 02:07 UTC

On 5/31/2023 9:15 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 4:51:50 AM UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 4:20:16 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>> You do not run a successful colony by murdering
>>> its labour force and expropriating its resources.
>> Have you ever read history? If so, please explain
>> in detail how the British, the Spanish, the French,
>> the Dutch and the Portuguese ran "successful"
>> colonies. And don't forget the Belgians.
>>> This is like trying to run a restaurant by poisoning
>>> your staff and taking all the food home and keeping
>>> it in the cellar for your own use.
>> Cute, though not relevant. Sounds like you may be
>> outsmarting yourself.
>>
>> dk
>
> The metaphor is absolutely relevant. Colonisers invest in colonies in order to maintain them as a going concern. That is why the smash 'n' grab theory of colonial economics, often proposed on You Tube and which you and Frank seem to have swallowed hook, line and sinker.
>
> Most colonies were successful in that they made money for those who invested in them, and provided facilities like railways, electricity, irrigation, medical services, etc. which are still there.
>
> You might want to consider the fate of colonies after they "revolted". India is noteworthy in that it has maintained the parliamentary and constitutional arrangements set up before the Raj ended in 1947, with the exception of the bit that outlawed tne caste system. Others rapidly deteriorated into one-party states and military dictatorships, where brutality and corruption were, and are, rampant. Ask yourself: if I were an African, would I be better off in British Rhodesia or in modern Zimbabwe, essentially a one party state where the currency is worthless, and those who do not know someone in the ruling party live from hand to mouth. Are the residents of the South African townships any better off materially than they were under apartheid, let alone under British rule?
>
> Incidentally, most British colonies did not 'revolt'. Independence movements started and negotiated with the British government for independence, which was usually achieved without bloodshed.
>
> And before you start banging on about colonial exploitation you might want to look at the living conditions of share croppers, tenant farmers and coal miners in the Deep South, white and black, post-Reconstruction. It's been said that the slaves ate better than an Arkansas hill farmer in the 1880s, the latter occupying a two-roomed shack, subsisting on a diet of corn and salt pork and liable to catch typhoid, dysentry, yellow fever and pellagra. And it wasn't even a colony.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

I am not an expert on the economics of colonialism. Don forget that all economics has to say is if the conditions are "this", then economic theory suggest "that."
So I would say that the better defined, or more secure, the property right (of the colonialist over the colony), the more sensible is most of what you say. The more uncertain is the property right (which could be for any number of reasons) the more likely "smash and grab" will be applicable. The reason world fisheries are in decline is because there is no clearly defined, enforceable property right to the fish.

All this, of course, overlooks whether the colonizer has the moral or legal right to colonize. Same with the slave owner. Bound up with this kind of analysis is the value of individual freedom. It's possible slavery or serfdom or whatever can make you better off economically but with a trade-off of your lost freedom of choice, movement, etc.

If we allow that today's African-Americans are better off than they would be if their ancestors and not been brutally enslaved, maybe they should be paying reparations to the Whites or at lest the descendants of slave owners and slave traders. If I believed in reparations at all, that is, which I don't.

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 02:16 UTC

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 9:43:42 PM UTC+10, Marc S wrote:
> Andrew Clarke schrieb am Mittwoch, 31. Mai 2023 um 13:20:16 UTC+2:
> > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:39:09 AM UTC+10, Marc S wrote:
> > > Marc S schrieb am Montag, 29. Mai 2023 um 18:25:21 UTC+2:
> > > > Dan Koren schrieb am Mittwoch, 7. Dezember 2022 um 07:16:36 UTC+1:
> > > > > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
> > > > >
> > > > > Who would have thought?
> > > > >
> > > > > dk
> > > > Also, interesting to note: How they take a picture of a British soldier? standing infront of a train... Neet psychological trick if done on purpose; or maybe it's just the act of the subconsciousness - in any case, it shows how deluded these people are.
> > > >
> > > > Note also the text displayed under said picture - no context given, just pure propaganda.
> > > >
> > > > Today, lieber Dan, it's not just that people deny the shoah, but they want to claim it for themselves...
> > > >
> > > > Look what a simple google search "british killed 100 million indians holocaust" brought me to:
> > > >
> > > > ""It was a holocaust, one where millions disappeared. It was a necessary holocaust in the British view because they thought the only way to win was to destroy entire populations in towns and villages. It was simple and brutal. Indians who stood in their way were killed. But its scale has been kept a secret," Misra told the Guardian."
> > > *To be added: Misra's casualty claims have been challenged in India and Britain. "It is very difficult to assess the extent of the reprisals simply because we cannot say for sure if some of these populations did not just leave a conflict zone rather than being killed," said Shabi Ahmad, head of the 1857 project at the Indian Council of Historical Research. "It could have been migration rather than murder that depopulated areas."
> > >
> > > Many view exaggeration rather than deceit in Misra's calculations. A British historian, Saul David, author of The Indian Mutiny, said it was valid to count the death toll but reckoned that it ran into "hundreds of thousands".
> > >
> > > "It looks like an overestimate. There were definitely famines that cost millions of lives, which were exacerbated by British ruthlessness. You don't need these figures or talk of holocausts to hammer imperialism. It has a pretty bad track record."
> > > >
> > > > https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/aug/24/india.randeepramesh
> > > >
> > > > This is very good news for us Germans, as now we are not the only ones who have committed a holocaust ;) (*ofc there was such thing as the Armenian genocide, but I'm not sure if it is of the same quality - I would guess not, would have to look into it more deeply).
> > > >
> > > > So according to Al Jazeera basically: The Brits committed a holocaust on the Indians and the Israelis are doing it today with the Palestinians....
> > > >
> > > > Maybe check out the Palestinian Holocaust museum:
> > > >
> > > > "In addition to the pictures depicting the Nazi brutality against Jews in Europe, there are also images of the Palestinian Nakba (catastrophe) following the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 and the violence in Palestine since.
> > > >
> > > > On one wall, there is a picture of a scared Jewish boy holding up his hands as Nazi soldiers look on; the caption reads: “Make your final account with Hitler and the Nazi Germans, not with the Palestinians.”
> > > >
> > > > On an adjacent wall there are photos of dead children, demolished homes and women screaming during the Israeli war on Gaza in January."
> > > >
> > > > https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2009/4/30/palestines-holocaust-museum
> > > >
> > > > See how generous these Palestinians are? They do not only commemorate the Palestinian Holocaust for which Israel is responsible, but also the shoah.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe Israel could learn a bit of this and commemorate the Palestinian Holocaust in Yad Vashem? That would maybe be a step towards peace... What do you think, Dan?
> > > >
> > > > Should be no wonder, why Andy is completely brainwashed wrt Israel taking this 'news' paper seriously...
> > You do not run a successful colony by murdering its labour force and expropriating its resources. This is like trying to run a restaurant by poisoning your staff and taking all the food home and keeping it in the cellar for your own use.
> Look, Andrew the Ape, as opposed to you I get that noone is perfect and that the Brits can be criticised for some things they did in India; this was not my point at all Mr Monkeybrain.
>
> My point was: That the Al Jazeera article is pure propaganda and that no reputable historian believes that the brits killed 100 million indians in 40 years... - no need to be a historian btw, you just need to be able to reflect critically which you obviously have problems with.
>
> I am not going to waste my time addressing the rest of your post - from what I've seen it is all completely besides any point I made; I'll rather enjoy my pizza - thanks.
> Karl Marx: "The question is not whether the English had a right to conquer India, but whether we are to prefer India conquered by the Turk, by the Persian, by the Russian, to India conquered by the Briton."

Oh you *Mensch* you! Watching Hurwitz's latest with a can of coke in one hand and a slice of pizza in the other. And at your age!

But do spare a thought for the poor old delivery boy. Running up five flights of stairs in a Plattenbau to deliver your order must be exhausting work.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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 by: gggg gggg - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 03:29 UTC

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

If not all colonizers are equal, could that have something to do with this?

(2023 Y. upload):

"Why Haiti Is So Dangerous And The Dominican Republic Is Thriving"

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: ggggg9...@gmail.com (gggg gggg)
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 by: gggg gggg - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 05:13 UTC

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

Does colonization eventually lead to THIS?

(2023 Y. upload):

"How the USA Colonized the USA"

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: ggggg9...@gmail.com (gggg gggg)
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 by: gggg gggg - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 18:51 UTC

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

(2023 Y. upload):

"How Britain Used India To Replace Slave Labor"

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 00:27 UTC

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 12:07:48 PM UTC+10, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 5/31/2023 9:15 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 4:51:50 AM UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 4:20:16 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You do not run a successful colony by murdering
> >>> its labour force and expropriating its resources.
> >> Have you ever read history? If so, please explain
> >> in detail how the British, the Spanish, the French,
> >> the Dutch and the Portuguese ran "successful"
> >> colonies. And don't forget the Belgians.
> >>> This is like trying to run a restaurant by poisoning
> >>> your staff and taking all the food home and keeping
> >>> it in the cellar for your own use.
> >> Cute, though not relevant. Sounds like you may be
> >> outsmarting yourself.
> >>
> >> dk
> >
> > The metaphor is absolutely relevant. Colonisers invest in colonies in order to maintain them as a going concern. That is why the smash 'n' grab theory of colonial economics, often proposed on You Tube and which you and Frank seem to have swallowed hook, line and sinker.
> >
> > Most colonies were successful in that they made money for those who invested in them, and provided facilities like railways, electricity, irrigation, medical services, etc. which are still there.
> >
> > You might want to consider the fate of colonies after they "revolted". India is noteworthy in that it has maintained the parliamentary and constitutional arrangements set up before the Raj ended in 1947, with the exception of the bit that outlawed tne caste system. Others rapidly deteriorated into one-party states and military dictatorships, where brutality and corruption were, and are, rampant. Ask yourself: if I were an African, would I be better off in British Rhodesia or in modern Zimbabwe, essentially a one party state where the currency is worthless, and those who do not know someone in the ruling party live from hand to mouth. Are the residents of the South African townships any better off materially than they were under apartheid, let alone under British rule?
> >
> > Incidentally, most British colonies did not 'revolt'. Independence movements started and negotiated with the British government for independence, which was usually achieved without bloodshed.
> >
> > And before you start banging on about colonial exploitation you might want to look at the living conditions of share croppers, tenant farmers and coal miners in the Deep South, white and black, post-Reconstruction. It's been said that the slaves ate better than an Arkansas hill farmer in the 1880s, the latter occupying a two-roomed shack, subsisting on a diet of corn and salt pork and liable to catch typhoid, dysentry, yellow fever and pellagra. And it wasn't even a colony.
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> I am not an expert on the economics of colonialism. Don forget that all economics has to say is if the conditions are "this", then economic theory suggest "that."
> So I would say that the better defined, or more secure, the property right (of the colonialist over the colony), the more sensible is most of what you say. The more uncertain is the property right (which could be for any number of reasons) the more likely "smash and grab" will be applicable. The reason world fisheries are in decline is because there is no clearly defined, enforceable property right to the fish.
>
> All this, of course, overlooks whether the colonizer has the moral or legal right to colonize. Same with the slave owner. Bound up with this kind of analysis is the value of individual freedom. It's possible slavery or serfdom or whatever can make you better off economically but with a trade-off of your lost freedom of choice, movement, etc.
>
> If we allow that today's African-Americans are better off than they would be if their ancestors and not been brutally enslaved, maybe they should be paying reparations to the Whites or at lest the descendants of slave owners and slave traders. If I believed in reparations at all, that is, which I don't.

What seems to have been going on in places like Alabama is a kind of intra-national wage slavery. The miners were charged for the cost of transporting the coal to the surface. They lived in company houses. They bought at the company store. They were paid a pittance per ton, and this was cut when there was a slump in the market. If they struck for better conditions, the mine owners brought in poor blacks or hired convict labour from the penitentiary, which usually amounted to the same thing. The alternative was share cropping, where you lived in the landlord's house on the landlord's land and bought at the landlord's store, and usually were in the landlord's debt. At least they were free to pack up and leave in the middle of the night, in what the English call a "moonlight flit".

When the Bethlehem iron works were bought by interests in, I think, Pittsburgh, Alabamans had to to pay an additional transport charge from Pittsburgh to Alabama for their own iron! This is comparable, I think, to jute being grown in Bengal, baled in Bengal but sent by ship to Dundee to be made into sacks, some of which were shipped back to Calcutta and sold to Bengalis ....

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 00:41 UTC

On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 4:51:12 AM UTC+10, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
> >
> > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
> >
> > Who would have thought?
> >
> > dk
> (2023 Y. upload):
>
> "How Britain Used India To Replace Slave Labor"

Learning about British colonial policy from You Tube is like learning about Jewish business es from Die Stuermer.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 01:13 UTC

On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 10:41:45 AM UTC+10, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 4:51:12 AM UTC+10, gggg gggg wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
> > >
> > > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
> > >
> > > Who would have thought?
> > >
> > > dk
> > (2023 Y. upload):
> >
> > "How Britain Used India To Replace Slave Labor"
> Learning about British colonial policy from You Tube is like learning about Jewish business es from Die Stuermer.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

Der Stuermer, or Die Stuermerin, I suppose. And c.f. Mel Gibson's diatribes or even Big Dave on the British music industry ...

AC

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: ggggg9...@gmail.com (gggg gggg)
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 by: gggg gggg - Sun, 4 Jun 2023 18:43 UTC

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

(2023 Y. upload):

"Why capitalism is inherently imperialist: Class struggle at the international level"

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: ggggg9...@gmail.com (gggg gggg)
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 by: gggg gggg - Tue, 8 Aug 2023 23:28 UTC

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

(2023 Y. upload):

"The Unmaking of India: How the British Impoverished the World’s Richest Country"

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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 by: gggg gggg - Fri, 11 Aug 2023 05:30 UTC

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

BARD answers the question: Did tanistry play a role in the colonization of India by Britain?

Tanistry did not play a direct role in the colonization of India by Britain.. However, it may have indirectly contributed to the British conquest of India by weakening the Indian political system.

Tanistry is a system of succession in which the successor to a ruler is not their eldest son, but rather a chosen heir. This system was common in many parts of India, including the Mughal Empire, which was the dominant power in India at the time of the British arrival.

The problem with tanistry is that it can lead to instability and conflict. This is because there is always the potential for rival claimants to the throne to challenge the chosen heir. This can lead to civil wars and dynastic instability, which can make it easier for foreign powers to intervene.

The British East India Company took advantage of this instability to gain a foothold in India. They supported rival claimants to the throne and intervened in dynastic disputes. This helped them to weaken the Indian political system and make it easier for them to conquer India.

So, while tanistry did not play a direct role in the colonization of India by Britain, it may have indirectly contributed to the British conquest by weakening the Indian political system.

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Fri, 11 Aug 2023 07:13 UTC

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 3:30:19 PM UTC+10, gggg gggg wrote:

> The British East India Company took advantage of this instability to gain a foothold in India. They supported rival claimants to the throne and intervened in dynastic disputes. This helped them to weaken the Indian political system and make it easier for them to conquer India.
>
> So, while tanistry did not play a direct role in the colonization of India by Britain, it may have indirectly contributed to the British conquest by weakening the Indian political system.

I have recently read a comment in, I think, The Spectator, from a teacher who claimed that the majority of his Indian students believed that the British created the Indian caste system, which of course flourished thousands of years before the arrival of the East India Company, and which continues to flourish 75 years after Indian independence. Similarly, many Indians will blame intercommunal violence on a so-called "British Divide and Rule" policy, which avoids the uncomfortable truth that violence between religious communities and between castes similarly preceded British rule and has continued after it.

It really doesn't make any sense to talk about an "Indian Political System" before the twentieth century, any more than it does to talk about the German political system prior to 1870. India before the Raj was a congeries of local rajahs and maharajahs, not to mention the Mogul empire in the north which could be far from gentle with its Hindu subjects.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: ggggg9...@gmail.com (gggg gggg)
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 by: gggg gggg - Mon, 14 Aug 2023 03:29 UTC

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

(2023 Y. upload):

"The British Conquest of India (1798-1806) I. Background & Grand Strategy"

Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

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Subject: Re: OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years
From: ggggg9...@gmail.com (gggg gggg)
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 by: gggg gggg - Tue, 15 Aug 2023 18:44 UTC

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

(Y. upload):

"How Did India Fall to the Europeans? | East vs. West"

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