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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical music - discuss.

SubjectAuthor
* 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalAndy Evans
+* Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalTodd M. McComb
|+- Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalAndy Evans
|`- Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalTodd M. McComb
+* Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalHT
|+* Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalTodd M. McComb
||`- Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalLawrence Kart
|`* Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalraymond....@gmail.com
| `* Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalAndy Evans
|  `* Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalmINE109
|   `- Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalraymond....@gmail.com
+* Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalOscar
|`- Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalDan Koren
+- Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalDan Koren
+- Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalnumber_six
`- Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classicalgggg gggg

1
20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical music - discuss.

<8b0d3d88-0f74-4d4a-b8bf-c2126829626en@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical
music - discuss.
From: performa...@gmail.com (Andy Evans)
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 by: Andy Evans - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 15:15 UTC

Discuss......

Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical music - discuss.

<u5ahrt$5g8$1@hope.eyrie.org>

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From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical
music - discuss.
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2023 16:43:41 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <u5ahrt$5g8$1@hope.eyrie.org>
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 by: Todd M. McComb - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 16:43 UTC

In article <8b0d3d88-0f74-4d4a-b8bf-c2126829626en@googlegroups.com>,
Andy Evans <performanceandmedia@gmail.com> wrote:
>Discuss......

In the 21st century, it can be hard to tell the difference....

But I know you don't even like a lot of the 60s jazz, Andy, like
AACM etc.

Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical music - discuss.

<f7b739a4-1e06-4d98-b58c-cf675f70be1dn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical
music - discuss.
From: hvtu...@xs4all.nl (HT)
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 by: HT - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 17:05 UTC

Op donderdag 1 juni 2023 om 17:15:38 UTC+2 schreef Andy Evans:
> Discuss......

Just a few names from the internet:
Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Dizzie Gillespie, Quincey Jones, Ella Fitzgerald, Benny Goodman, Louis Armstrong, Dave Brubeck, Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Thelonius Monk, Billie Holiday, Charlie Parker, Nat King Cole, Oscar Peterson, Lionel Hampton, ….

Again, just a few names from the internet:
Elgar and Sibelius, Bartók and Janáček. Vaughan Williams. John Williams. Ravel. Xenakis. Peter Maxwell Davies and Harrison Birtwistle. Olivier Messiaen, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Ligeti, Berio, Lutosławski, Steve Reich. John Adams, Elliot Carter.

The people in the first list were certainly more entertaining than those in the second.

Henk

Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical music - discuss.

<u5ar3a$cac$1@hope.eyrie.org>

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From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical
music - discuss.
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2023 19:21:14 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <u5ar3a$cac$1@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <8b0d3d88-0f74-4d4a-b8bf-c2126829626en@googlegroups.com> <f7b739a4-1e06-4d98-b58c-cf675f70be1dn@googlegroups.com>
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 by: Todd M. McComb - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 19:21 UTC

In article <f7b739a4-1e06-4d98-b58c-cf675f70be1dn@googlegroups.com>,
HT <hvtuijl@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>The people in the first list were certainly more entertaining than
>those in the second.

You say that, and yet people who've never even heard music by various
people in the second list seem sufficiently entertained by the idea
of their music to bring it up -- for their own entertainment, that
is.

Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical music - discuss.

<1377da5f-d4a2-421a-8769-002ba66405b0n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical
music - discuss.
From: lkart...@gmail.com (Lawrence Kart)
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 by: Lawrence Kart - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 20:10 UTC

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 2:21:19 PM UTC-5, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <f7b739a4-1e06-4d98...@googlegroups.com>,
> HT <hvt...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >The people in the first list were certainly more entertaining than
> >those in the second.
> You say that, and yet people who've never even heard music by various
> people in the second list seem sufficiently entertained by the idea
> of their music to bring it up -- for their own entertainment, that
> is.

I love both musics, even wrote a book about jazz --- "jazz In Search of Itself" (Yale U. Press) -- but this is not a competition.

Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical music - discuss.

<7903cc6a-4dd4-43a9-bb0a-9bbc57ebcd5bn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical
music - discuss.
From: oscaredw...@gmail.com (Oscar)
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 by: Oscar - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 20:20 UTC

What did Bartok do to you, Mr. Evans?

Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical music - discuss.

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Subject: Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical
music - discuss.
From: raymond....@gmail.com (raymond....@gmail.com)
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 by: raymond....@gmail.co - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 20:30 UTC

On Friday, 2 June 2023 at 03:05:24 UTC+10, HT wrote:
> Op donderdag 1 juni 2023 om 17:15:38 UTC+2 schreef Andy Evans:
> > Discuss......
>
> Just a few names from the internet:
> Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Dizzie Gillespie, Quincey Jones, Ella Fitzgerald, Benny Goodman, Louis Armstrong, Dave Brubeck, Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Thelonius Monk, Billie Holiday, Charlie Parker, Nat King Cole, Oscar Peterson, Lionel Hampton, ….
>
> Again, just a few names from the internet:
> Elgar and Sibelius, Bartók and Janáček. Vaughan Williams. John Williams. Ravel. Xenakis. Peter Maxwell Davies and Harrison Birtwistle.. Olivier Messiaen, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Ligeti, Berio, Lutosławski, Steve Reich. John Adams, Elliot Carter.
>
> The people in the first list were certainly more entertaining than those in the second.
>
> Henk

I don't really distinguish beteen the two lists, as it really depends on my mood. Virtually all in both lists have created distinguished music. Entertainment is also a vague word in this context. It cn mean many different things.

Ray Hall, Taree

Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical music - discuss.

<0014338f-b2c7-45be-8e71-865e1f97d695n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical
music - discuss.
From: performa...@gmail.com (Andy Evans)
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 by: Andy Evans - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 21:38 UTC

On Thursday, 1 June 2023 at 17:43:46 UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In the 21st century, it can be hard to tell the difference....
>
> But I know you don't even like a lot of the 60s jazz, Andy, like
> AACM etc.

I was playing jazz live from 1966 onwards in pretty good bands.......

Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical music - discuss.

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Subject: Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical
music - discuss.
From: performa...@gmail.com (Andy Evans)
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 by: Andy Evans - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 21:42 UTC

For me jazz has unique qualities - the excitement of improvisation, the beat, the overall sound, the personalities.

I think one of the things it is particularly good at is the development of ideas, what in classical music would be described as a development section. .

Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical music - discuss.

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Subject: Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical
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From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 23:48 UTC

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 8:15:38 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> Discuss......

It is actually much better.

dk

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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 23:50 UTC

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 1:20:25 PM UTC-7, Oscar wrote:
>
> What did Bartok do to you, Mr. Evans?
>

Not even close to what Bruckner and
Dick Wagner did to you. You suffer
from advanced, chronic, terminal
bruckneriosis and wagneriosis.
They are the most lethal forms
of meningo-encephalitis, with
no known cure or treatment.

dk

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 by: number_six - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 00:29 UTC

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 8:15:38 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> Discuss......

How could either exist (as we know them) without the other?
Sources /influences are intertwined, multi-directional...

Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical music - discuss.

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 by: mINE109 - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 00:34 UTC

On 6/1/23 4:42 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> For me jazz has unique qualities - the excitement of improvisation,
> the beat, the overall sound, the personalities.
>
> I think one of the things it is particularly good at is the
> development of ideas, what in classical music would be described as a
> development section. .

And they weren't entirely separated from each other:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/742474

"Miles Davis and Karlheinz Stockhausen: A Reciprocal Relationship"

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Subject: Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical
music - discuss.
From: raymond....@gmail.com (raymond....@gmail.com)
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 by: raymond....@gmail.co - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 01:37 UTC

On Friday, 2 June 2023 at 10:34:26 UTC+10, mINE109 wrote:
> On 6/1/23 4:42 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > For me jazz has unique qualities - the excitement of improvisation,
> > the beat, the overall sound, the personalities.
> >
> > I think one of the things it is particularly good at is the
> > development of ideas, what in classical music would be described as a
> > development section. .
> And they weren't entirely separated from each other:
>
> https://www.jstor.org/stable/742474
>
> "Miles Davis and Karlheinz Stockhausen: A Reciprocal Relationship"

Stockhausen even appeared on a Beatles album. Music is music, whatever you want to call it.

ps: the first early jazz that really wowed me was Bix Beiderbecke, not mentioned here, who was also reasonably adept on piano besides the cornet.

Ray Hall, Taree

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From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: 20th Century jazz was as good as a lot of 20th Century classical
music - discuss.
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 17:28:10 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
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 by: Todd M. McComb - Sun, 4 Jun 2023 17:28 UTC

In article <u5ahrt$5g8$1@hope.eyrie.org>,
Todd M. McComb <mccomb@medieval.org> wrote:
>In the 21st century, it can be hard to tell the difference....

Latest release from Henry Threadgill:

https://henrythreadgill.bandcamp.com/album/the-other-one

Threadgill was one of several prominent musicians in the AACM
(Chicago), his band "Air" being especially influential in an earlier
era, moved to New York, Pulitzer Prize for _In for a penny, in for
a pound_ (2015), of course retaining a sense of AACM jazz....

_The Other One_ is now a multimedia production, various different
sections for different instrumentation, some more extended in
technique, but overall a very "danceable" piece (according to e.g.
the New York Times).... The sense of overlapping material recalls
a bit Debussy's _Jeux_.

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 by: gggg gggg - Mon, 5 Jun 2023 00:50 UTC

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 8:15:38 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> Discuss......

(2023 Y. upload):

"'WHO KILLED JAZZ?' | The Ben Makinen Interview"

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