Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

You will be Told about it Tomorrow. Go Home and Prepare Thyself.


arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

SubjectAuthor
* Lisitsa beyond the paleLarryLap
+* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleHT
|`- Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleOwen Hartnett
+* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleHerman
|`- Re: Lisitsa beyond the palegggg gggg
+* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleFrank Berger
|+- Re: Lisitsa beyond the palemINE109
|+- Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleDan Koren
|`* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleLarryLap
| +- Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleFrank Berger
| `* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleAndrew Clarke
|  +* Re: Lisitsa beyond the palePaul Alsing
|  |+* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleAndrew Clarke
|  ||`* Re: Lisitsa beyond the palePaul Alsing
|  || `* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleAndrew Clarke
|  ||  `- Re: Lisitsa beyond the palePaul Alsing
|  |`* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleTodd M. McComb
|  | `* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleJames Goodzeit
|  |  `* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleHT
|  |   +* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleJames Goodzeit
|  |   |`* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleHT
|  |   | `- Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleMarc S
|  |   `* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleMarc S
|  |    `* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleHT
|  |     +- Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleMarc S
|  |     `- Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleMarc S
|  `- Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleFrank Berger
+* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleDan Koren
|+* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleOscar
||`* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleDan Koren
|| +- Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleDan Koren
|| `- Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleMarc S
|`* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleJames Goodzeit
| `* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleHerman
|  `- Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleJames Goodzeit
+* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleDan Koren
|`* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleFrank Berger
| `- Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleFrank Berger
`* Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleAndrew Clarke
 `- Re: Lisitsa beyond the paleAl Eisner

Pages:12
Lisitsa beyond the pale

<3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57219&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57219

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1896:b0:3f6:b017:627e with SMTP id v22-20020a05622a189600b003f6b017627emr2147704qtc.12.1685306979447;
Sun, 28 May 2023 13:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:2f55:0:b0:bad:2b06:da3 with SMTP id
v82-20020a252f55000000b00bad2b060da3mr3311407ybv.3.1685306979147; Sun, 28 May
2023 13:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!feeder1.feed.usenet.farm!feed.usenet.farm!peer02.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 13:49:38 -0700 (PDT)
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=172.58.45.50; posting-account=xURUAAoAAAD5ECbsR1rE3MXmN5lV5F5S
NNTP-Posting-Host: 172.58.45.50
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: larry.la...@gmail.com (LarryLap)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 20:49:39 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 1303
 by: LarryLap - Sun, 28 May 2023 20:49 UTC

Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse of civilized people everywhere.

Larry Lapidus

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<42edec7b-dc82-44fd-a76e-9bca3d96bd25n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57220&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57220

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1896:b0:3ef:6035:465 with SMTP id v22-20020a05622a189600b003ef60350465mr2002773qtc.8.1685307842356;
Sun, 28 May 2023 14:04:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:7343:0:b0:bab:cc56:76c2 with SMTP id
o64-20020a257343000000b00babcc5676c2mr4755192ybc.8.1685307842159; Sun, 28 May
2023 14:04:02 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!peer01.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer01.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 14:04:01 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2a02:a469:429f:1:f97b:40c1:87c:1379;
posting-account=wS4SMQoAAABUIAsKFdRTm_klvDpHL6ly
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2a02:a469:429f:1:f97b:40c1:87c:1379
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <42edec7b-dc82-44fd-a76e-9bca3d96bd25n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: hvtu...@xs4all.nl (HT)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 21:04:02 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 1769
 by: HT - Sun, 28 May 2023 21:04 UTC

Op zondag 28 mei 2023 om 22:49:41 UTC+2 schreef LarryLap:
> Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse of civilized people everywhere.
>
> Larry Lapidus

Cancelling her? It's against my principles (Voltaire's influence). What do we do, in these days of sensitivity towards sensitivities? Is it your sensitivities or mine?

Henk

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<d73af19a-f721-4b06-a16e-ea6de87f64f0n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57222&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57222

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:190d:b0:75b:3839:7176 with SMTP id bj13-20020a05620a190d00b0075b38397176mr1542059qkb.13.1685309968714;
Sun, 28 May 2023 14:39:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:c749:0:b0:ba7:4dda:f858 with SMTP id
w70-20020a25c749000000b00ba74ddaf858mr4661213ybe.10.1685309968455; Sun, 28
May 2023 14:39:28 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!feeder1.feed.usenet.farm!feed.usenet.farm!peer03.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 14:39:28 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=85.150.207.236; posting-account=j1o0cwkAAAAFh1vAspNW3sBPSSSzsjbD
NNTP-Posting-Host: 85.150.207.236
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <d73af19a-f721-4b06-a16e-ea6de87f64f0n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: her...@yahoo.com (Herman)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 21:39:28 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 1457
 by: Herman - Sun, 28 May 2023 21:39 UTC

Same with this Matsuev who is best buddies with Putin.
he's not just an odious banger on the piano, but an awful person.

Matsuev this, Matsuev that, and here's the latest from Lisitsa

It's like we have a propagandist for Putin here.

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<ef9c2e16-8fd9-4df8-b347-8a3ecdf88a0fn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57223&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57223

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4510:b0:75b:161:6e62 with SMTP id t16-20020a05620a451000b0075b01616e62mr1634689qkp.5.1685310315794;
Sun, 28 May 2023 14:45:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:e24a:0:b0:533:8f19:4576 with SMTP id
z10-20020a81e24a000000b005338f194576mr5138095ywl.0.1685310315310; Sun, 28 May
2023 14:45:15 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.1d4.us!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 14:45:15 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <d73af19a-f721-4b06-a16e-ea6de87f64f0n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=32.132.12.210; posting-account=VREO7AoAAABGo_TnRXAj3kKbki4Qex7X
NNTP-Posting-Host: 32.132.12.210
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com> <d73af19a-f721-4b06-a16e-ea6de87f64f0n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <ef9c2e16-8fd9-4df8-b347-8a3ecdf88a0fn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: ggggg9...@gmail.com (gggg gggg)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 21:45:15 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 1856
 by: gggg gggg - Sun, 28 May 2023 21:45 UTC

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 2:39:30 PM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> Same with this Matsuev who is best buddies with Putin.
> he's not just an odious banger on the piano, but an awful person.
>
> Matsuev this, Matsuev that, and here's the latest from Lisitsa
>
> It's like we have a propagandist for Putin here.

According to Wikipedia:

- In 2022, due to his public support of Vladimir Putin, Matsuev's appearance with the Vienna Philharmonic in New York on February 25, 2022, was cancelled and he was replaced by pianist Seong-Jin Cho.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Matsuev#Biography

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<ph-cnUXxUMW0SO75nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57224&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57224

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!69.80.99.23.MISMATCH!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 22:26:49 +0000
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 18:26:50 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.0
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
Content-Language: en-US
From: frankdbe...@gmail.com (Frank Berger)
In-Reply-To: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <ph-cnUXxUMW0SO75nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com>
Lines: 7
X-Trace: sv3-1eeg8ZdG8sNH6kGwbOmgMzX3Izs/BO0cGLPXRho0Iex/d1/aBnkefmp7YJiwd2kHiaQKzpSWkfcialA!ztyOEdk9L4f2kM/S+h2NLOeWwaHkIwEcBqQfxFfXmD7Ka04WbfbMmRkpoLPpif/j3JuUvauv1J8z!gVFWp7/K5Ebp
X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
 by: Frank Berger - Sun, 28 May 2023 22:26 UTC

On 5/28/2023 4:49 PM, LarryLap wrote:
> Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse of civilized people everywhere.
>
> Larry Lapidus

I doubt her beliefs are the most odious of all musicians, nor her character the most contemptible. So who else would you like to cancel? Let's have a list.

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<7e919e0f-dcd0-46ca-8c71-9c23bac74c51n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57225&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57225

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1a25:b0:3f6:a97d:1548 with SMTP id f37-20020a05622a1a2500b003f6a97d1548mr2286977qtb.8.1685313810095;
Sun, 28 May 2023 15:43:30 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:aaef:0:b0:bad:89:29d5 with SMTP id t102-20020a25aaef000000b00bad008929d5mr3139295ybi.2.1685313809669;
Sun, 28 May 2023 15:43:29 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 15:43:29 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <7e919e0f-dcd0-46ca-8c71-9c23bac74c51n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 22:43:30 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 1868
 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 28 May 2023 22:43 UTC

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 1:49:41 PM UTC-7, LarryLap wrote:
>
> Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I
> would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa
> banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse
> of civilized people everywhere.
>
> Larry Lapidus

How about banishing Wagner, Pfitzner, Orff, Backhaus, Elly Ney,
Wilhelm Backhaus, Wilhelm Kempff, Karl Bohm, Herbert von
Karajan, Oswald Kabasta (and possibly others whose names I
don't remember right now) because of their odious beliefs and
contemptible characters, as they should be from the discourse
of civilized people anywhere?

dk

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<u50lnn$1255m$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57226&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57226

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pianofor...@yahoo.com (mINE109)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 17:48:23 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <u50lnn$1255m$1@dont-email.me>
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
<ph-cnUXxUMW0SO75nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 22:48:23 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="ff6ff24892a6a60e3f1f5e1f642550dd";
logging-data="1119414"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+0axDoJ4lMBVNUoMB2Bblg"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:S4oL6Dnvxt1DjusZQSRWIATmNQg=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <ph-cnUXxUMW0SO75nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com>
 by: mINE109 - Sun, 28 May 2023 22:48 UTC

On 5/28/23 5:26 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 5/28/2023 4:49 PM, LarryLap wrote:
>> Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I would be
>> in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa banished from our
>> group, as it should be from the discourse of civilized people everywhere.

> I doubt her beliefs are the most odious of all musicians, nor her
> character the most contemptible.  So who else would you like to cancel?
> Let's have a list.

Anyone who can't see DK's posts won't see her mentioned much at all.

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<81fe11a6-ca3d-4b72-ac3e-3c3eeb90e773n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57227&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57227

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:18a9:b0:3f6:aacf:5835 with SMTP id v41-20020a05622a18a900b003f6aacf5835mr2327764qtc.1.1685314105938;
Sun, 28 May 2023 15:48:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:2f17:0:b0:ba8:94ed:55d1 with SMTP id
v23-20020a252f17000000b00ba894ed55d1mr4784945ybv.11.1685314105768; Sun, 28
May 2023 15:48:25 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 15:48:25 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <7e919e0f-dcd0-46ca-8c71-9c23bac74c51n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=172.251.85.69; posting-account=cE5-FwoAAACF_js9gD5WRebNdjLSpL55
NNTP-Posting-Host: 172.251.85.69
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com> <7e919e0f-dcd0-46ca-8c71-9c23bac74c51n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <81fe11a6-ca3d-4b72-ac3e-3c3eeb90e773n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: oscaredw...@gmail.com (Oscar)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 22:48:25 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 1879
 by: Oscar - Sun, 28 May 2023 22:48 UTC

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 3:43:32 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> How about banishing Wagner, Pfitzner, Orff, Backhaus, Elly Ney,
> Wilhelm Backhaus, Wilhelm Kempff, Karl Bohm, Herbert von
> Karajan, Oswald Kabasta (and possibly others whose names I
> don't remember right now) because of their odious beliefs and
> contemptible characters, as they should be from the discourse
> of civilized people anywhere?

Matsuev does not belong in their company for obvious reasons, deekay. All of those names are legendary for verifiable and incontrovertible artistic reasons. Matsuev, on the other hand, sucks!!

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<1cb86014-6e85-4761-a239-ef9709a77024n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57228&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57228

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:430b:b0:75c:b18b:712f with SMTP id u11-20020a05620a430b00b0075cb18b712fmr1693706qko.7.1685314117242;
Sun, 28 May 2023 15:48:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:d748:0:b0:ba8:3e78:206e with SMTP id
o69-20020a25d748000000b00ba83e78206emr4834441ybg.9.1685314116726; Sun, 28 May
2023 15:48:36 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 15:48:36 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <ph-cnUXxUMW0SO75nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com> <ph-cnUXxUMW0SO75nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <1cb86014-6e85-4761-a239-ef9709a77024n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 22:48:37 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 1974
 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 28 May 2023 22:48 UTC

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 3:29:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 5/28/2023 4:49 PM, LarryLap wrote:
> > Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I
> > would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa
> banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse
> of civilized people everywhere.
>
> I doubt her beliefs are the most odious of all musicians, nor
> her character the most contemptible. So who else would you
> like to cancel? Let's have a list.

For starters:

Dick Wagner
Hans Pfitzner
Carl Orff
Elly Ney
Wilhelm Backhaus,
Wilhelm Kempff
Karl Bohm
Herbert von Karajan
Oswald Kabasta
Willi Boskovsky

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<6f831b6a-1173-4777-ab85-869fb16f9309n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57229&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57229

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:44d6:b0:75c:b3e6:6406 with SMTP id y22-20020a05620a44d600b0075cb3e66406mr1137126qkp.6.1685314259748;
Sun, 28 May 2023 15:50:59 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:ac07:0:b0:565:b269:5ef7 with SMTP id
k7-20020a81ac07000000b00565b2695ef7mr5023937ywh.1.1685314259373; Sun, 28 May
2023 15:50:59 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 15:50:59 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <ph-cnUXxUMW0SO75nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=172.58.45.50; posting-account=xURUAAoAAAD5ECbsR1rE3MXmN5lV5F5S
NNTP-Posting-Host: 172.58.45.50
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com> <ph-cnUXxUMW0SO75nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <6f831b6a-1173-4777-ab85-869fb16f9309n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: larry.la...@gmail.com (LarryLap)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 22:50:59 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2456
 by: LarryLap - Sun, 28 May 2023 22:50 UTC

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 3:29:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 5/28/2023 4:49 PM, LarryLap wrote:
> > Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse of civilized people everywhere.
> >
> > Larry Lapidus
> I doubt her beliefs are the most odious of all musicians, nor her character the most contemptible. So who else would you like to cancel? Let's have a list.
I have no wish to get drawn into a nuanced parsing of the moral failings of Cortot vs. Gieseking. I have admired Lisitsa's playing in the past, and was incredulous on first hearing of the criticisms others leveled against her, feeling that they must be similar to those directed against Al Franken. I was deeply shocked and saddened to learn that this was not the case, and that Lisitsa had willingly, knowingly and even gleefully betrayed the humane principles that motivated many of the composers and other artists upon whom her career depends. You are free, needless to say, to inquire as I did and judge for yourself. I mean to say no more on the matter.

Larry Lapidus

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<ph-cnUTxUMVNQe75nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57231&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57231

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 22:59:28 +0000
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 18:59:28 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.11.0
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
Content-Language: en-US
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
<ph-cnUXxUMW0SO75nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com>
<6f831b6a-1173-4777-ab85-869fb16f9309n@googlegroups.com>
From: frankdbe...@gmail.com (Frank Berger)
In-Reply-To: <6f831b6a-1173-4777-ab85-869fb16f9309n@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <ph-cnUTxUMVNQe75nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com>
Lines: 12
X-Trace: sv3-dfa22JP2sPYW0LWyuJ57lf8PlcYcBURmFVRIam8iLEaRy6eQH7AtlmOOs2IKOI6u/CicY/nqOBZAXZR!+oyqVeC9++n4wEHH7occIJh2CXu2r7+7FksWPLj0AXpsM6cwy/B7WBsBM/f4Tmx4BMWYNHFNhcSQ!Hn+OnzPU7YPo
X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
 by: Frank Berger - Sun, 28 May 2023 22:59 UTC

On 5/28/2023 6:50 PM, LarryLap wrote:
> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 3:29:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 5/28/2023 4:49 PM, LarryLap wrote:
>>> Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse of civilized people everywhere.
>>>
>>> Larry Lapidus
>> I doubt her beliefs are the most odious of all musicians, nor her character the most contemptible. So who else would you like to cancel? Let's have a list.
> I have no wish to get drawn into a nuanced parsing of the moral failings of Cortot vs. Gieseking. I have admired Lisitsa's playing in the past, and was incredulous on first hearing of the criticisms others leveled against her, feeling that they must be similar to those directed against Al Franken. I was deeply shocked and saddened to learn that this was not the case, and that Lisitsa had willingly, knowingly and even gleefully betrayed the humane principles that motivated many of the composers and other artists upon whom her career depends. You are free, needless to say, to inquire as I did and judge for yourself. I mean to say no more on the matter.
>
> Larry Lapidus

But some of those composers were equally contemptible, weren't they? It's good you mean to say no more on the matter. You've painted yourself into a corner from which there is no escape.

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<65634cba-d125-437f-b553-81396b39ba2an@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57232&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57232

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4413:b0:75b:38b6:a635 with SMTP id v19-20020a05620a441300b0075b38b6a635mr1647151qkp.6.1685315416167;
Sun, 28 May 2023 16:10:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:b61c:0:b0:565:cfac:6d23 with SMTP id
u28-20020a81b61c000000b00565cfac6d23mr3428042ywh.3.1685315415812; Sun, 28 May
2023 16:10:15 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 16:10:15 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <81fe11a6-ca3d-4b72-ac3e-3c3eeb90e773n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
<7e919e0f-dcd0-46ca-8c71-9c23bac74c51n@googlegroups.com> <81fe11a6-ca3d-4b72-ac3e-3c3eeb90e773n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <65634cba-d125-437f-b553-81396b39ba2an@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 23:10:16 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2311
 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 28 May 2023 23:10 UTC

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 3:48:27 PM UTC-7, Oscar wrote:
> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 3:43:32 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > How about banishing Wagner, Pfitzner, Orff, Backhaus, Elly Ney,
> > Wilhelm Backhaus, Wilhelm Kempff, Karl Bohm, Herbert von
> > Karajan, Oswald Kabasta (and possibly others whose names I
> > don't remember right now) because of their odious beliefs and
> > contemptible characters, as they should be from the discourse
> > of civilized people anywhere?
>
> Matsuev does not belong in their company for obvious reasons,

Of course. He is no Nazi.

> All of those names are legendary for verifiable and incontrovertible
> artistic reasons. Matsuev, on the other hand, sucks!!

Are you suggesting that "incontrovertible artistic reasons" should be
used as excuses to whitewash incontrovertible, documented support
for the Nazi regime?

And what makes your "artistic reasons" so incontrovertible?

You are a Nazi.

dk

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<00cd7ccb-329a-4bce-bff3-69dcf357573cn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57234&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57234

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4005:b0:75b:24db:cde8 with SMTP id h5-20020a05620a400500b0075b24dbcde8mr1713387qko.10.1685317242725;
Sun, 28 May 2023 16:40:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:af4e:0:b0:561:8c16:2b66 with SMTP id
x14-20020a81af4e000000b005618c162b66mr3870213ywj.4.1685317242283; Sun, 28 May
2023 16:40:42 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 16:40:41 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <00cd7ccb-329a-4bce-bff3-69dcf357573cn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 23:40:42 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 1838
 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 28 May 2023 23:40 UTC

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 1:49:41 PM UTC-7, LarryLap wrote:
>
> Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I
> would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa
> banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse
> of civilized people everywhere.

Setting aside for a moment the thorny question how to set the
criteria, metrics and standards for filtering out artists who do
not meet someone's ethical standards, and how to apply them
fairly and uniformly across the board, how would you propose
enforcing them in a group that is not moderated?

I ask the question .....

dk

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<c5a38944-507d-4652-aaf0-d8b2a507eb50n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57237&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57237

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:8c5:b0:618:8410:f02f with SMTP id da5-20020a05621408c500b006188410f02fmr1190753qvb.0.1685317725657;
Sun, 28 May 2023 16:48:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:b627:0:b0:559:d859:d749 with SMTP id
u39-20020a81b627000000b00559d859d749mr3900924ywh.5.1685317725155; Sun, 28 May
2023 16:48:45 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 16:48:44 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <65634cba-d125-437f-b553-81396b39ba2an@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.247.181.171; posting-account=zoRlLAkAAADnaynpk4ZzIoUiINS0rxoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.247.181.171
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
<7e919e0f-dcd0-46ca-8c71-9c23bac74c51n@googlegroups.com> <81fe11a6-ca3d-4b72-ac3e-3c3eeb90e773n@googlegroups.com>
<65634cba-d125-437f-b553-81396b39ba2an@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <c5a38944-507d-4652-aaf0-d8b2a507eb50n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 23:48:45 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2168
 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 28 May 2023 23:48 UTC

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 4:10:18 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 3:48:27 PM UTC-7, Oscar wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 3:43:32 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > >
> > > How about banishing Wagner, Pfitzner, Orff, Backhaus, Elly Ney,
> > > Wilhelm Backhaus, Wilhelm Kempff, Karl Bohm, Herbert von
> > > Karajan, Oswald Kabasta (and possibly others whose names I
> > > don't remember right now) because of their odious beliefs and
> > > contemptible characters, as they should be from the discourse
> > > of civilized people anywhere?
> >
> > Matsuev does not belong in their company for obvious reasons,
>
> Of course. He is no Nazi.

Not to mention he can also play the piano -- unlike Mme Ney,
or the 2 Wilhelms.

dk

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<2023052820501399822-ads@clipboardinc.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57238&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57238

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!panix!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr3.iad1.usenetexpress.com!69.80.99.26.MISMATCH!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 00:50:14 +0000
From: ads...@clipboardinc.com (Owen Hartnett)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 20:50:13 -0400
Message-ID: <2023052820501399822-ads@clipboardinc.com>
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com> <42edec7b-dc82-44fd-a76e-9bca3d96bd25n@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
User-Agent: Unison/2.2
Lines: 24
X-Trace: sv3-f8kEdMaYivU3RrHAPOiiez7AZTwEANEXCnHEvJTqCFi0zUjIbzoKdNfcaD+rMA+3MHgk6zQ+FQW9P7b!/V/P++iNTyHyzVjlZ049ioKug98k/gVxZXszVqzT33lCnSOirQD247T1Mv+41pTSxjRtG36pBADr!oICeEg==
X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
 by: Owen Hartnett - Mon, 29 May 2023 00:50 UTC

On 2023-05-28 21:04:01 +0000, HT said:

> Op zondag 28 mei 2023 om 22:49:41 UTC+2 schreef LarryLap:
>> Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I would be in
>> favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa banished from our
>> group, as it should be from the discourse of civilized people
>> everywhere.
>>
>> Larry Lapidus
>
> Cancelling her? It's against my principles (Voltaire's influence). What
> do we do, in these days of sensitivity towards sensitivities? Is it
> your sensitivities or mine?
>
> Henk

Usenet is one of the few places where there cannot be a
cancellation/censorship. It is the embodiment of anarchism.

Now that we have US federal agencies engaged in the blacklisting
business, it is in all our best interest to insure freedom of speech.

-Owen

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<TaydnQ6A0o_Lken5nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@supernews.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57239&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57239

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 02:22:14 +0000
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 22:22:14 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.11.0
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
Content-Language: en-US
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
<00cd7ccb-329a-4bce-bff3-69dcf357573cn@googlegroups.com>
From: frankdbe...@gmail.com (Frank Berger)
In-Reply-To: <00cd7ccb-329a-4bce-bff3-69dcf357573cn@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <TaydnQ6A0o_Lken5nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@supernews.com>
Lines: 19
X-Trace: sv3-AJwgADje7Ey2rZ10w0O+++2hmhErSZUWRGDDjLR/8ZpwMChsK4W/Wk6dZ3hBEFZdmR90+Nb6aUWaNGz!2vilU37LC0MI+sCzIC2tHD5E6tCfhCykfGXr1ClkYOOmFwxSnpegujjpvUdPlY/hJ00fAO6gJCMe!rO66ghpqk6Ai
X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
 by: Frank Berger - Mon, 29 May 2023 02:22 UTC

On 5/28/2023 7:40 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 1:49:41 PM UTC-7, LarryLap wrote:
>>
>> Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I
>> would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa
>> banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse
>> of civilized people everywhere.
>
> Setting aside for a moment the thorny question how to set the
> criteria, metrics and standards for filtering out artists who do
> not meet someone's ethical standards, and how to apply them
> fairly and uniformly across the board, how would you propose
> enforcing them in a group that is not moderated?
>
> I ask the question .....
>
> dk

We can put Putin in charge. Russia has been canceling performance of artists who speak out against the Ukraine invasion, such as Polina Osetinskaya.

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<TaydnQmA0o-Uhun5nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@supernews.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57240&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57240

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 03:24:57 +0000
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 23:24:58 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.11.0
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
Content-Language: en-US
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
<00cd7ccb-329a-4bce-bff3-69dcf357573cn@googlegroups.com>
<TaydnQ6A0o_Lken5nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@supernews.com>
From: frankdbe...@gmail.com (Frank Berger)
In-Reply-To: <TaydnQ6A0o_Lken5nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@supernews.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <TaydnQmA0o-Uhun5nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@supernews.com>
Lines: 22
X-Trace: sv3-g5zWsILXGC6ib7I4TUB82Ri1aSz8CGXT0nnMcQq1qBD1RTTD2owZw9S7Fo5qg/i6uwmLXeuh0JHJDKn!w5QX0hTVj4z8BdFl2hWWhSlKnhWRhn4k+EBHlRRQ72KliT55Xq3ZJTkZOC4cGjsHkcKXFWh4lZCh!biMeJMFNb2yW
X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
 by: Frank Berger - Mon, 29 May 2023 03:24 UTC

On 5/28/2023 10:22 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 5/28/2023 7:40 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 1:49:41 PM UTC-7, LarryLap wrote:
>>>
>>> Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I
>>> would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa
>>> banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse
>>> of civilized people everywhere.
>>
>> Setting aside for a moment the thorny question how to set the
>> criteria, metrics and standards for filtering out artists who do
>> not meet someone's ethical standards, and how to apply them
>> fairly and uniformly across the board, how would you propose
>> enforcing them in a group that is not moderated?
>>
>> I ask the question .....
>>
>> dk
>
> We can put Putin in charge. Russia has been canceling performance of artists who speak out against the Ukraine invasion, such as Polina Osetinskaya.

I forgot to add that only of her recording are available on CD. I wonder if Russia has something to do with that.

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<3efaaf73-ad84-4005-a80c-b803a0724725n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57247&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57247

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:240b:b0:75b:7362:9c50 with SMTP id d11-20020a05620a240b00b0075b73629c50mr1817152qkn.8.1685340611311;
Sun, 28 May 2023 23:10:11 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:2606:0:b0:b9f:14a5:b3b5 with SMTP id
m6-20020a252606000000b00b9f14a5b3b5mr3439572ybm.6.1685340611081; Sun, 28 May
2023 23:10:11 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 23:10:10 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <65634cba-d125-437f-b553-81396b39ba2an@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2003:cc:f40:ab6f:4c69:47c2:2920:8822;
posting-account=Zd3N6woAAAChXcJ25uTdghyzQ3PscByS
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2003:cc:f40:ab6f:4c69:47c2:2920:8822
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
<7e919e0f-dcd0-46ca-8c71-9c23bac74c51n@googlegroups.com> <81fe11a6-ca3d-4b72-ac3e-3c3eeb90e773n@googlegroups.com>
<65634cba-d125-437f-b553-81396b39ba2an@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <3efaaf73-ad84-4005-a80c-b803a0724725n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
Injection-Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 06:10:11 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 30
 by: Marc S - Mon, 29 May 2023 06:10 UTC

Dan Koren schrieb am Montag, 29. Mai 2023 um 01:10:18 UTC+2:
> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 3:48:27 PM UTC-7, Oscar wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 3:43:32 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > >
> > > How about banishing Wagner, Pfitzner, Orff, Backhaus, Elly Ney,
> > > Wilhelm Backhaus, Wilhelm Kempff, Karl Bohm, Herbert von
> > > Karajan, Oswald Kabasta (and possibly others whose names I
> > > don't remember right now) because of their odious beliefs and
> > > contemptible characters, as they should be from the discourse
> > > of civilized people anywhere?
> >
> > Matsuev does not belong in their company for obvious reasons,
> Of course. He is no Nazi.
> > All of those names are legendary for verifiable and incontrovertible
> > artistic reasons. Matsuev, on the other hand, sucks!!
> Are you suggesting that "incontrovertible artistic reasons" should be
> used as excuses to whitewash incontrovertible, documented support
> for the Nazi regime?
>
> And what makes your "artistic reasons" so incontrovertible?
>
> You are a Nazi.

See... you really have learned nothing from the past. You are no more than a monkey; just a little more evolved than pluted.

Oscar at least - even though he was a bit too friendly w td imo - is not a self-hating Jew as far as I can tell...

>
> dk

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<876b59d8-134c-4e06-83ad-0190521867c3n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57433&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57433

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:578e:0:b0:3f6:ad84:9ac9 with SMTP id v14-20020ac8578e000000b003f6ad849ac9mr2638144qta.0.1685626385424;
Thu, 01 Jun 2023 06:33:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:4047:0:b0:55d:95b7:39d8 with SMTP id
m7-20020a814047000000b0055d95b739d8mr5333244ywn.7.1685626385135; Thu, 01 Jun
2023 06:33:05 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.mixmin.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2023 06:33:04 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <7e919e0f-dcd0-46ca-8c71-9c23bac74c51n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=136.226.80.208; posting-account=5lZ52woAAADMpL8QUwtGMvf56yicjOLD
NNTP-Posting-Host: 136.226.80.208
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com> <7e919e0f-dcd0-46ca-8c71-9c23bac74c51n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <876b59d8-134c-4e06-83ad-0190521867c3n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: james.go...@gmail.com (James Goodzeit)
Injection-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2023 13:33:05 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: James Goodzeit - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 13:33 UTC

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 6:43:32 PM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 1:49:41 PM UTC-7, LarryLap wrote:
> >
> > Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I
> > would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa
> > banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse
> > of civilized people everywhere.
> >
> > Larry Lapidus
> How about banishing Wagner, Pfitzner, Orff, Backhaus, Elly Ney,
> Wilhelm Backhaus, Wilhelm Kempff, Karl Bohm, Herbert von
> Karajan, Oswald Kabasta (and possibly others whose names I
> don't remember right now) because of their odious beliefs and
> contemptible characters, as they should be from the discourse
> of civilized people anywhere?
>
> dk

Lisitsa fully embraces the Kremlin's genocidal rhetoric. I have no intention of listening to Ney ever, even if she did later recant. Wagner would be a garbage human being even without being a flaming anti-Semite, but I do relax a bit when the person is long dead or was an extraordinary artist. Lisitsa is not. Also there is the degree of embrace. Von Karajan only joined the Nazi Party as a matter of convenience, and AFAIK never embraced their genocidal rhetoric. Did any of the artists you list go as far a Lisitsa?

FWIW I do have the Ives sonatas for violin and piano with Hillary Hahn, which is a great recording, but I have thousands of other discs to listen to, I can let that collect dust until the day it is tossed in a bin after my estate sale.

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<28a9b78f-6070-41d6-829a-9a4020f0e91bn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57434&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57434

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:472a:b0:759:5e3e:2867 with SMTP id bs42-20020a05620a472a00b007595e3e2867mr2832820qkb.12.1685629121727;
Thu, 01 Jun 2023 07:18:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:1206:b0:bb1:f26d:b18d with SMTP id
s6-20020a056902120600b00bb1f26db18dmr6815ybu.13.1685629121109; Thu, 01 Jun
2023 07:18:41 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.mixmin.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2023 07:18:40 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <876b59d8-134c-4e06-83ad-0190521867c3n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=85.150.207.236; posting-account=j1o0cwkAAAAFh1vAspNW3sBPSSSzsjbD
NNTP-Posting-Host: 85.150.207.236
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
<7e919e0f-dcd0-46ca-8c71-9c23bac74c51n@googlegroups.com> <876b59d8-134c-4e06-83ad-0190521867c3n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <28a9b78f-6070-41d6-829a-9a4020f0e91bn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: her...@yahoo.com (Herman)
Injection-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2023 14:18:41 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: Herman - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 14:18 UTC

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 3:33:07 PM UTC+2, James Goodzeit wrote:
>
> Lisitsa fully embraces the Kremlin's genocidal rhetoric.

Same with Matsuev, much promoted here by the usual suspect. He's called 'Putin's pianist.'

The difference between saying 'Richard Wagner wrote great music drama' and 'you gotta listen to Matsuev banging the piano' is that Matsuev is of this moment, just like we are, and all the people getting killed in Ukraine.
Matsuev, Putin and their supporters will say: 'look, people don't care, they're listening to Matsuev banging the piano just the same. So let's kill some more.

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<3cb43326-df14-4d70-90b2-edc45860642cn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57464&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57464

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:5651:b0:626:b39:8f24 with SMTP id mh17-20020a056214565100b006260b398f24mr1716993qvb.3.1685668961337;
Thu, 01 Jun 2023 18:22:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:a98a:0:b0:55d:955b:360 with SMTP id
g132-20020a81a98a000000b0055d955b0360mr6052403ywh.5.1685668961133; Thu, 01
Jun 2023 18:22:41 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2023 18:22:40 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2001:8003:1c0e:2000:151b:c946:b2d1:1805;
posting-account=n2N0pwoAAAAM43hx1FijIzzgs4FdjjQs
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:8003:1c0e:2000:151b:c946:b2d1:1805
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <3cb43326-df14-4d70-90b2-edc45860642cn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
Injection-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2023 01:22:41 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 1684
 by: Andrew Clarke - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 01:22 UTC

On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 6:49:41 AM UTC+10, LarryLap wrote:
> Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse of civilized people everywhere.
>
> Larry Lapidus

I'm sorry to hear Miss Lisitsa is beyond the pale. I was going to put her on my bucket list ...

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<06325d95-34b8-48e2-85b3-9afb34a6fac3n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57466&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57466

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:440c:b0:759:82c:1f2c with SMTP id v12-20020a05620a440c00b00759082c1f2cmr3024034qkp.15.1685675862687;
Thu, 01 Jun 2023 20:17:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:aa0a:0:b0:561:8c16:2b66 with SMTP id
i10-20020a81aa0a000000b005618c162b66mr2245820ywh.4.1685675862474; Thu, 01 Jun
2023 20:17:42 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!1.us.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2023 20:17:41 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <6f831b6a-1173-4777-ab85-869fb16f9309n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2001:8003:1c0e:2000:151b:c946:b2d1:1805;
posting-account=n2N0pwoAAAAM43hx1FijIzzgs4FdjjQs
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:8003:1c0e:2000:151b:c946:b2d1:1805
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
<ph-cnUXxUMW0SO75nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com> <6f831b6a-1173-4777-ab85-869fb16f9309n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <06325d95-34b8-48e2-85b3-9afb34a6fac3n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
Injection-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2023 03:17:42 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3242
 by: Andrew Clarke - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 03:17 UTC

On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 8:51:01 AM UTC+10, LarryLap wrote:
> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 3:29:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> > On 5/28/2023 4:49 PM, LarryLap wrote:
> > > Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse of civilized people everywhere.
> > >
> > > Larry Lapidus
> > I doubt her beliefs are the most odious of all musicians, nor her character the most contemptible. So who else would you like to cancel? Let's have a list.
> I have no wish to get drawn into a nuanced parsing of the moral failings of Cortot vs. Gieseking. I have admired Lisitsa's playing in the past, and was incredulous on first hearing of the criticisms others leveled against her, feeling that they must be similar to those directed against Al Franken. I was deeply shocked and saddened to learn that this was not the case, and that Lisitsa had willingly, knowingly and even gleefully betrayed the humane principles that motivated many of the composers and other artists upon whom her career depends. You are free, needless to say, to inquire as I did and judge for yourself. I mean to say no more on the matter.
>
> Larry Lapidus

We must also add to the list recordings of Shostakovitch, Prokofiev, Sviatislav Richter, Leonid Kogan and others who accepted the most murderous regime in modern history as well as fellow travellers like Weill and Cornelius Cardew. Then you have to exclude all British composers and conductors for their part in the slave trade and the starvation of 40,000 million Indians. To which you can add Sir Charles Mackerras and Malcolm Williamson for the genocide of indigenous Australians ...

The list is endless ...

Andrew Clarke
Canderra

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<35a77f9d-159f-4114-8c25-5a3fbae87fe8n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57467&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57467

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:181c:b0:3f8:465:239d with SMTP id t28-20020a05622a181c00b003f80465239dmr3330674qtc.1.1685676505590;
Thu, 01 Jun 2023 20:28:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:431f:0:b0:561:9091:ff91 with SMTP id
q31-20020a81431f000000b005619091ff91mr6219677ywa.2.1685676505317; Thu, 01 Jun
2023 20:28:25 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2023 20:28:24 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <06325d95-34b8-48e2-85b3-9afb34a6fac3n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=97.130.215.141; posting-account=FyvUbwkAAAARAfp2CSw2Km63SBNL9trz
NNTP-Posting-Host: 97.130.215.141
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
<ph-cnUXxUMW0SO75nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com> <6f831b6a-1173-4777-ab85-869fb16f9309n@googlegroups.com>
<06325d95-34b8-48e2-85b3-9afb34a6fac3n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <35a77f9d-159f-4114-8c25-5a3fbae87fe8n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: pnals...@gmail.com (Paul Alsing)
Injection-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2023 03:28:25 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3420
 by: Paul Alsing - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 03:28 UTC

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 8:17:45 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 8:51:01 AM UTC+10, LarryLap wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 3:29:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > On 5/28/2023 4:49 PM, LarryLap wrote:
> > > > Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse of civilized people everywhere.
> > > >
> > > > Larry Lapidus
> > > I doubt her beliefs are the most odious of all musicians, nor her character the most contemptible. So who else would you like to cancel? Let's have a list.
> > I have no wish to get drawn into a nuanced parsing of the moral failings of Cortot vs. Gieseking. I have admired Lisitsa's playing in the past, and was incredulous on first hearing of the criticisms others leveled against her, feeling that they must be similar to those directed against Al Franken. I was deeply shocked and saddened to learn that this was not the case, and that Lisitsa had willingly, knowingly and even gleefully betrayed the humane principles that motivated many of the composers and other artists upon whom her career depends. You are free, needless to say, to inquire as I did and judge for yourself. I mean to say no more on the matter.
> >
> > Larry Lapidus
> We must also add to the list recordings of Shostakovitch, Prokofiev, Sviatislav Richter, Leonid Kogan and others who accepted the most murderous regime in modern history as well as fellow travellers like Weill and Cornelius Cardew. Then you have to exclude all British composers and conductors for their part in the slave trade and the starvation of 40,000 million Indians. To which you can add Sir Charles Mackerras and Malcolm Williamson for the genocide of indigenous Australians ...
>
> The list is endless ...

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"... just get over it already...

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<50038051-70fb-4fd3-affc-9a62d0b900a9n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57468&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57468

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:46a7:b0:75b:c11:f42f with SMTP id bq39-20020a05620a46a700b0075b0c11f42fmr2491258qkb.10.1685677938508;
Thu, 01 Jun 2023 20:52:18 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:e7c6:0:b0:ba8:8fad:c19d with SMTP id
e189-20020a25e7c6000000b00ba88fadc19dmr777630ybh.8.1685677938280; Thu, 01 Jun
2023 20:52:18 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2023 20:52:18 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <35a77f9d-159f-4114-8c25-5a3fbae87fe8n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=185.234.71.68; posting-account=n2N0pwoAAAAM43hx1FijIzzgs4FdjjQs
NNTP-Posting-Host: 185.234.71.68
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
<ph-cnUXxUMW0SO75nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com> <6f831b6a-1173-4777-ab85-869fb16f9309n@googlegroups.com>
<06325d95-34b8-48e2-85b3-9afb34a6fac3n@googlegroups.com> <35a77f9d-159f-4114-8c25-5a3fbae87fe8n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <50038051-70fb-4fd3-affc-9a62d0b900a9n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
Injection-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2023 03:52:18 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: Andrew Clarke - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 03:52 UTC

On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 1:28:27 PM UTC+10, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 8:17:45 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 8:51:01 AM UTC+10, LarryLap wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 3:29:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > > On 5/28/2023 4:49 PM, LarryLap wrote:
> > > > > Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse of civilized people everywhere.
> > > > >
> > > > > Larry Lapidus
> > > > I doubt her beliefs are the most odious of all musicians, nor her character the most contemptible. So who else would you like to cancel? Let's have a list.
> > > I have no wish to get drawn into a nuanced parsing of the moral failings of Cortot vs. Gieseking. I have admired Lisitsa's playing in the past, and was incredulous on first hearing of the criticisms others leveled against her, feeling that they must be similar to those directed against Al Franken. I was deeply shocked and saddened to learn that this was not the case, and that Lisitsa had willingly, knowingly and even gleefully betrayed the humane principles that motivated many of the composers and other artists upon whom her career depends. You are free, needless to say, to inquire as I did and judge for yourself. I mean to say no more on the matter.
> > >
> > > Larry Lapidus
> > We must also add to the list recordings of Shostakovitch, Prokofiev, Sviatislav Richter, Leonid Kogan and others who accepted the most murderous regime in modern history as well as fellow travellers like Weill and Cornelius Cardew. Then you have to exclude all British composers and conductors for their part in the slave trade and the starvation of 40,000 million Indians. To which you can add Sir Charles Mackerras and Malcolm Williamson for the genocide of indigenous Australians ...
> >
> > The list is endless ...
> "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"... just get over it already...

Paul, you do realise I was being ironic?

I forgot to add the dastardly intentions of the British Secret Service and the editors of The Gramophone, thwarted in their attempt to kidnap Ruby Keeler and substitute Kathleen Ferrier, as Big Dave will reveal in a forthcoming video. (They'd have assassinated Bebe Daniels as well, except that she and Ben Lyon were already in London, broadcasting for the BBC.)

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale

<a6fbc538-64a6-4a29-88c7-8821c286a535n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=57469&group=rec.music.classical.recordings#57469

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4447:b0:74d:f7d0:6a5f with SMTP id w7-20020a05620a444700b0074df7d06a5fmr980928qkp.0.1685680465808;
Thu, 01 Jun 2023 21:34:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:4519:0:b0:568:9e88:6aa4 with SMTP id
s25-20020a814519000000b005689e886aa4mr6156174ywa.6.1685680465556; Thu, 01 Jun
2023 21:34:25 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2023 21:34:25 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <50038051-70fb-4fd3-affc-9a62d0b900a9n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=97.130.215.141; posting-account=FyvUbwkAAAARAfp2CSw2Km63SBNL9trz
NNTP-Posting-Host: 97.130.215.141
References: <3b1d010d-ab49-4f5c-a169-dc5fefb33f76n@googlegroups.com>
<ph-cnUXxUMW0SO75nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com> <6f831b6a-1173-4777-ab85-869fb16f9309n@googlegroups.com>
<06325d95-34b8-48e2-85b3-9afb34a6fac3n@googlegroups.com> <35a77f9d-159f-4114-8c25-5a3fbae87fe8n@googlegroups.com>
<50038051-70fb-4fd3-affc-9a62d0b900a9n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <a6fbc538-64a6-4a29-88c7-8821c286a535n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lisitsa beyond the pale
From: pnals...@gmail.com (Paul Alsing)
Injection-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2023 04:34:25 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 4889
 by: Paul Alsing - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 04:34 UTC

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 8:52:20 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 1:28:27 PM UTC+10, Paul Alsing wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 8:17:45 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 8:51:01 AM UTC+10, LarryLap wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 3:29:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > > > On 5/28/2023 4:49 PM, LarryLap wrote:
> > > > > > Because of her odious beliefs and contemptible character, I would be in favor of seeing all mention of Valentina Lisitsa banished from our group, as it should be from the discourse of civilized people everywhere.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Larry Lapidus
> > > > > I doubt her beliefs are the most odious of all musicians, nor her character the most contemptible. So who else would you like to cancel? Let's have a list.
> > > > I have no wish to get drawn into a nuanced parsing of the moral failings of Cortot vs. Gieseking. I have admired Lisitsa's playing in the past, and was incredulous on first hearing of the criticisms others leveled against her, feeling that they must be similar to those directed against Al Franken. I was deeply shocked and saddened to learn that this was not the case, and that Lisitsa had willingly, knowingly and even gleefully betrayed the humane principles that motivated many of the composers and other artists upon whom her career depends. You are free, needless to say, to inquire as I did and judge for yourself. I mean to say no more on the matter.
> > > >
> > > > Larry Lapidus

> > > We must also add to the list recordings of Shostakovitch, Prokofiev, Sviatislav Richter, Leonid Kogan and others who accepted the most murderous regime in modern history as well as fellow travellers like Weill and Cornelius Cardew. Then you have to exclude all British composers and conductors for their part in the slave trade and the starvation of 40,000 million Indians. To which you can add Sir Charles Mackerras and Malcolm Williamson for the genocide of indigenous Australians ...
> > >
> > > The list is endless ...

> > "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"... just get over it already...

> Paul, you do realise I was being ironic?

Well... no, but I should have. I was just buzzing along and did not stop to fully analyze your response... but for most of my life, right or wrong, I paid little attention to the lives of composers (or performers) and just enjoyed the music that I liked. To be suddenly advised that so-and-so was a horrible person and that his/her music should be shunned forever just does not sit well with me. I am not going to reject what I really like because the composer was an idiot in someone's opinion, or even in everyone's opinion.. Everyone has their demons and composers and performers are no exception. A masterpiece is still a masterpiece, whatever the foibles of the composer or the performer and I will continue to enjoy them as I choose. If someone claims that I am a lesser person for my views, well, screw them, I don't have enough time left on this Earth to waste it arguing about such trivial matters.

I have recently been very impressed by Lisitsa and will continue to search out her recordings because they please me.

Pages:12
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor