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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000

SubjectAuthor
* The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000Pluted Pup
+* Re: The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000drh8h
|`- Re: The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000Pluted Pup
`* Re: The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000Gerard
 `* Re: The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000Pluted Pup
  `* Re: The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000Steven de Mena
   `- Re: The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000LarryLap

1
The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000

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 by: Pluted Pup - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 23:20 UTC

The Complete 257 CD box set of Abbado doesn't have enough
CDs. It is missing the Beethoven symphonies 1-8 recorded
in 1999-2000. It just has the 9th. There is no legitimate
reason to permanently delete most of the 2000 cycle,
and it belongs in a Complete set:

https://www.discogs.com/release/2160176-Beethoven-Berliner-Philharmoniker-Abbado-Die-Symphonien

It was available on 5 CDs and as a set:

Slipcase containing a booklet and 5 CDs, each CD in a digipak

Recordings: Berlin, Philharmonie, Kammermusiksaal, 3/2000 (Nos. 1 and 2);
Großse Saal, 12/1999 (Nos. 4 and 7), 3/2000 (Nos. 3 and 8),
4 & 5/2000 (No. 9), 5/2000 (Nos. 5 and 6)
??? & © 2000 Deutsche Grammophon GmbH, Hamburg

According to a reviewer it's also missing Mozart piano concerto 16
by Rudolf Serkin

Re: The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000

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Subject: Re: The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000
From: drh...@mac.com (drh8h)
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 by: drh8h - Sat, 3 Jun 2023 02:53 UTC

On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 7:20:27 PM UTC-4, Pluted Pup wrote:
> The Complete 257 CD box set of Abbado doesn't have enough
> CDs. It is missing the Beethoven symphonies 1-8 recorded
> in 1999-2000. It just has the 9th. There is no legitimate
> reason to permanently delete most of the 2000 cycle,
> and it belongs in a Complete set:
>
> https://www.discogs.com/release/2160176-Beethoven-Berliner-Philharmoniker-Abbado-Die-Symphonien
>
> It was available on 5 CDs and as a set:
>
> Slipcase containing a booklet and 5 CDs, each CD in a digipak
>
> Recordings: Berlin, Philharmonie, Kammermusiksaal, 3/2000 (Nos. 1 and 2);
> Großse Saal, 12/1999 (Nos. 4 and 7), 3/2000 (Nos. 3 and 8),
> 4 & 5/2000 (No. 9), 5/2000 (Nos. 5 and 6)
> ??? & © 2000 Deutsche Grammophon GmbH, Hamburg
>
> According to a reviewer it's also missing Mozart piano concerto 16
> by Rudolf Serkin

I don't know if the set here https://tinyurl.com/aa73kxnm explains it or not, but didn't Abbado "disown" the first eight symphonies of the originally published Berlin cycle. It is strange they are not included, as he authorized their issue on CD, unless DG for some reason no longer has rights to those, originally video only, performances.

DH

Re: The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000

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Subject: Re: The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000
From: cbc...@gmail.com (Gerard)
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 by: Gerard - Sat, 3 Jun 2023 10:01 UTC

Op zaterdag 3 juni 2023 om 01:20:27 UTC+2 schreef Pluted Pup:
> The Complete 257 CD box set of Abbado doesn't have enough
> CDs. It is missing the Beethoven symphonies 1-8 recorded
> in 1999-2000. It just has the 9th. There is no legitimate
> reason to permanently delete most of the 2000 cycle,
> and it belongs in a Complete set:
>
> https://www.discogs.com/release/2160176-Beethoven-Berliner-Philharmoniker-Abbado-Die-Symphonien
>
> It was available on 5 CDs and as a set:
>
> Slipcase containing a booklet and 5 CDs, each CD in a digipak
>
> Recordings: Berlin, Philharmonie, Kammermusiksaal, 3/2000 (Nos. 1 and 2);
> Großse Saal, 12/1999 (Nos. 4 and 7), 3/2000 (Nos. 3 and 8),
> 4 & 5/2000 (No. 9), 5/2000 (Nos. 5 and 6)
> ??? & © 2000 Deutsche Grammophon GmbH, Hamburg
>

AFAIK Abbado was very dissatisfied with this 2000 cycle (made in Berlin) and wanted to 'replace' it with his 2001 cycle (live in Rome, originally on video), except for nr. 9:
https://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-Complete-MATTILA-URMANA-BERLIN/dp/B001795SH8/

He more or less apologized for the 2000 cycle. But he did not give anyone - who had bought the 2000 recordings - his money back ;-)
The 2000 recordings were withdrawn by DG.

The set on German Eloquence probably is the same set recorded in Italy.
https://www.amazon.de/-/nl/dp/B00ESNMWCO/

Re: The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000

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 by: Pluted Pup - Sat, 3 Jun 2023 20:07 UTC

On Sat, 03 Jun 2023 03:01:19 -0700, Gerard wrote:

> Op zaterdag 3 juni 2023 om 01:20:27 UTC+2 schreef Pluted Pup:
> > The Complete 257 CD box set of Abbado doesn't have enough
> > CDs. It is missing the Beethoven symphonies 1-8 recorded
> > in 1999-2000. It just has the 9th. There is no legitimate
> > reason to permanently delete most of the 2000 cycle,
> > and it belongs in a Complete set:
> >
> > https://www.discogs.com/release/2160176-Beethoven-Berliner-Philharmoniker-Abbado-Die-Symphonien
> >
> > It was available on 5 CDs and as a set:
> >
> > Slipcase containing a booklet and 5 CDs, each CD in a digipak
> >
> > Recordings: Berlin, Philharmonie, Kammermusiksaal, 3/2000 (Nos. 1 and 2);
> > Großse Saal, 12/1999 (Nos. 4 and 7), 3/2000 (Nos. 3 and 8),
> > 4 & 5/2000 (No. 9), 5/2000 (Nos. 5 and 6)
> > ??? & © 2000 Deutsche Grammophon GmbH, Hamburg
>
> AFAIK Abbado was very dissatisfied with this 2000 cycle (made in Berlin) and wanted to 'replace' it with his 2001 cycle (live in Rome, originally on video), except for nr. 9:
> https://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-Complete-MATTILA-URMANA-BERLIN/dp/B001795SH8/
>
> He more or less apologized for the 2000 cycle. But he did not give anyone - who had bought the 2000 recordings - his money back ;-)
> The 2000 recordings were withdrawn by DG.

Right, there is no legitimate reason to exclude them from a
Complete set! No where in the set is it acknowledged that it
is excluded. The back of the book apologizes for a handful
of specific unavailable recordings on CD and DVD that couldn't
be included because DG had only a temporary license to issue
them but it has no mention of deliberate exclusions.

I don't know why the Mozart 16th concerto was excluded. So
that is at least 5 missing CDs.

Re: The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000

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 by: Pluted Pup - Sat, 3 Jun 2023 20:15 UTC

On Fri, 02 Jun 2023 19:53:56 -0700, drh8h wrote:

> On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 7:20:27???PM UTC-4, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > The Complete 257 CD box set of Abbado doesn't have enough
> > CDs. It is missing the Beethoven symphonies 1-8 recorded
> > in 1999-2000. It just has the 9th. There is no legitimate
> > reason to permanently delete most of the 2000 cycle,
> > and it belongs in a Complete set:
> >
> > https://www.discogs.com/release/2160176-Beethoven-Berliner-Philharmoniker-Abbado-Die-Symphonien
> >
> > It was available on 5 CDs and as a set:
> >
> > Slipcase containing a booklet and 5 CDs, each CD in a digipak
> >
> > Recordings: Berlin, Philharmonie, Kammermusiksaal, 3/2000 (Nos. 1 and 2);
> > Großse Saal, 12/1999 (Nos. 4 and 7), 3/2000 (Nos. 3 and 8),
> > 4 & 5/2000 (No. 9), 5/2000 (Nos. 5 and 6)
> > ??? & © 2000 Deutsche Grammophon GmbH, Hamburg
> >
> > According to a reviewer it's also missing Mozart piano concerto 16
> > by Rudolf Serkin
>
> I don't know if the set here https://tinyurl.com/aa73kxnm explains it or not, but didn't Abbado "disown" the first eight symphonies of the originally published Berlin cycle. It is strange they are not included, as he authorized their issue on CD, unless DG for some reason no longer has rights to those, originally video only, performances.

The box you referred to are the 2001 recordings except the 2000
Berlin 9th is re-edited. From my recollection the 1-8 Rome 2001
symphonies were originally video-only:

https://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-Complete-MATTILA-URMANA-BERLIN/dp/B001795SH8

The new "complete" set has an apology in the back of the book for a
handful of specific audio and video recordings that were excluded
becauseDG only had a temporary license to issue them, but not a
word about deliberate exclusions.

Re: The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000

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 by: Steven de Mena - Sat, 3 Jun 2023 23:05 UTC

On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 1:07:54 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Jun 2023 03:01:19 -0700, Gerard wrote:
>
>
> I don't know why the Mozart 16th concerto was excluded. So
> that is at least 5 missing CDs.

The Mozart Piano Concerto 16 with Serkin was a mistake. They’ve produced discs for it and one should be able to get it from your etailer or DG.. Don’t ask me how.

Steve

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Subject: Re: The In-Complete Abbado: missing Beethoven 1-8 from 2000
From: larry.la...@gmail.com (LarryLap)
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 by: LarryLap - Sun, 4 Jun 2023 00:58 UTC

On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 4:05:35 PM UTC-7, Steven de Mena wrote:
> On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 1:07:54 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > On Sat, 03 Jun 2023 03:01:19 -0700, Gerard wrote:
> >
> >
> > I don't know why the Mozart 16th concerto was excluded. So
> > that is at least 5 missing CDs.
> The Mozart Piano Concerto 16 with Serkin was a mistake. They’ve produced discs for it and one should be able to get it from your etailer or DG. Don’t ask me how.
>
> Steve
A card included in the original issue of the later recordings of Symphonies 1-8 includes the following explanation:
"Containing the maestro's final interpretative wishes, this new cycle replaces his Berlin set issued by Deutsche Grammophon in 2000 - now no longer available.
Claudio Abbado comments: 'There are many reasons for releasing this new edition, above all musical ones. After many performances of the cycle, our interpretative vision had matured, becoming more natural and shared. The concerts in Rome marked significant advances in terms of style, spirit and technique.'"

Larry

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