Been thinking about this topic lately.

Back in the early days of collecting - say, the early 90s - G1 figures were the aspirational gold standard for collectors. Loved a certain character? Want to track down the "real", "definitive" version? Well, find their original G1 counterpart on the secondary market (or at retail), and you're good to go.

Is this still true nowadays? I'm not sure. Or, am I being cynical? Does the lure of metal bodies, rubber tires, and still feel as credible now as it did in the early 90s? For that matter, what do young/new collectors (those born after, say, 2000 or so) even think of these original toys?

Who is the final market for these vintage toys? And, what sort of future do they have? Once folks our age have aged and passed, will there still be any interest?

Just a few thoughts,

JB

On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 12:49:15 AM UTC-6, Joseph Bardsley wrote:
> Is this still true nowadays? I'm not sure. Or, am I being cynical? Does the lure of metal bodies, rubber tires, and still feel as credible now as it did in the early 90s? For that matter, what do young/new collectors (those born after, say, 2000 or so) even think of these original toys?

The impression I get, honestly, is that the younger fans are into the current stuff. Whatever's being manufactured by Hasbro or Takara right now. There were so many people who were talking about the Worlds Collide 4-pack from Target who were saying things like, "Well, I have absolutely no idea who Fangry is, so he's an easy pass, but the other toys look great." Which is such a weird thing to say, because to me, Fangry was the biggest draw of that set.

Every time there's a new version of a G1 character that comes to market, you see the vintage equivalent skyrocket in price on eBay. So there's a clear correlation between the two, and people are obviously going, "Well, now that they're releasing a new Tankzap, I'd better track down the 1987 version so I can have both." But, I tend to think that the majority of people who want a G1 collection already have one.

Then again, maybe not. I'm trying to finish my collection very late in the game, but there's still strong competition for the toys out there. I've been outbid easily as often as not. And if the market value for a given G1 toy is, say, $120, and somebody buys it for $133, then their intent is clearly not to flip it and turn a profit.

I would say that the appeal of metal die-cast parts and rubberized tires is specific to the G1 era. Like, if you have a choice between a 1986 Rodimus Prime with plastic wheels or rubber tires, obviously you get the rubber version. That's a no-brainer. But if you could only own the G1 toy or the Kingdom toy, I think the new version is objectively better in every way. If you want a representation of the character, the newer version is almost always better.

However, I'm sure there are fans who didn't watch the cartoon series and who remember the toys fondly from their childhood. For them, having a new version or Ironhide or Brawn wouldn't be as thrilling as owning the original version, because the toy is the source of the nostalgia, and not the media character.

> Who is the final market for these vintage toys? And, what sort of future do they have? Once folks our age have aged and passed, will there still be any interest?
Yes and no.

I will admit that my own collecting habits are limited pretty much entirely to things released within my own lifetime. There's some media that I like that was created before I was born (Lost in Space), but I caught it in syndication so I was still able to watch it on TV. I don't ever buy things produced in the 1960's. I just don't have any interest in it. But, I recognize that there's value to it. Every once in a while, when I'm eBay shopping, I'll see things made many decades ago by Mego or Remco that are in exquisite condition. They're not for me, but I can certainly appreciate that someone took care of them.

When my son was about four or five years old, he loved the Dinobots so I ended up piecing together a set of G1 toys for him. I think Snarl and Sludge were loose vintage toys I got for fairly cheap, Slag was pieced together from two broken G1 units, and Snarl and Swoop were unlicensed reissues. They're not among his favorite toys today, though. He prefers the newer stuff, not the stuff his dad grew up with. And I think that's probably how it is for most people. We may have to accept the cold, hard truth that the younger generation just isn't as into the vintage Transformers the way we all were. There are modern options—made of better plastics, more affordable, more accessible, and with much better articulation. You really have to go out of your way to hunt down the early G1 stuff now. You have to be willing to pay hundreds of dollars, sometimes, and you have to be willing to embrace all the little quirks that make a G1 toy a G1 toy—stickers and chrome and die-cast, tiny heads, and arms and legs that don't move.

Zob (didn't go after a G1 toy this month, mostly because I'm moving out, but also because I've spent... a lot... of money on TMNT NECA in the last 30 days)

On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 11:49:15 PM UTC-7, Joseph Bardsley wrote:
> Who is the final market for these vintage toys? And, what sort of future do they have? Once folks our age have aged and passed, will there still be any interest?

The toys that defined the franchise-the Diaclone era molds-are declining in popularity on the secondary market. I think the interest in figures with rubber tires, chrome, and die cast from the early days of G1 has died and has been dead for a while now. Over the last twenty years the market got saturated with reissues and Zhong Jin knockoffs to the point that anyone who wants one has one by now. But there are other reasons that demand for loose '84-'85 figures is at an all time low.

First off these are just toys and anyone who grew up in the target demographic when G1 first hit are now adults with other problems and priorities in life. I of course have my own Very Legitimate Reasons for hunting down toys on the secondary market, but the vast majority of people of my generation do not. Now there are a lot of Gen Xers out there who remember the Diaclone days and I figure they're the ones who would have the strongest attachment.. But even then, Transformers during its first few years was never consistently as popular as He-Man or GI Joe. They had maybe one year where they were a mega popular 300 million dollar franchise and that was it. Other brands sold that much year in and year out. So the fanbase is actually kinda small comparatively, and they've moved on in life.

Even if some Gen Xer or person in their 20s for some reason decided they just had to have a vintage toy representation of Optimus Prime or whoever, they've had almost 40 years of chances to scratch that itch. The most popular characters are from the first two years and the originals were wildly overproduced, to say nothing of the flood of reissues and updates and knockoffs over the last 20 years. Boxed and sealed examples of the first two years of figures are all over ebay even now. I'd say there's actually a glut of die cast rubber tires TFs because they never actually went away. The demand has been satiated.

And there's not a lot of new demand in the pipeline. Kids and younger collectors have no motivation to track down '84-'85. Hasbro is ensuring that by refreshing the characters and giving people new versions of the old things to enjoy. So there's no new blood in the secondary market because the masses are casual fans and this is a lowest hanging fruit hobby, meaning the majority of people only buy what is easiest for them to acquire. The average guy nowadays who may want to jump on the G1 bandwagon is going to find it hard and expensive to buy sealed or boxed G1. It's a hassle to buy stuff on ebay for the unmotivated. Scalpers are the most readily available source of vintage toys and overprice things so as to make them unattainable. The alternative is to buy loose figures which are way cheaper but most often broken or missing parts, and even those can get pricey. Plus anything loose is tainted by customization and fakery. Or you can just go to Walmart and get a better toy representation at a fraction of the cost and it's the real deal untouched by anyone but the Vietnamese factory worker who put it together for you. G1 authenticity loses again.

I just think there's no demand or longing for a return to the Diaclone days.. Hasbro does a good job of keeping the brand alive and giving it media presence to maintain awareness and popularity so this should help. I could argue that all modern media portrayals of Optimus Prime are a commercial for the original, but if G1 toys are in demand because of current media then why did Optimus Prime go on clearance the last time he was reissued at Wal-Mart?

Where there IS demand and where competition will continue to be fierce and alive for decades is the market for G1 originally released during the years of '87 to '89. That stuff was underproduced compared to the first few years and there is not enough supply even for the small collector market. But Diaclone stuff? Nah, that party is over.

On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 10:58:22 AM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> When my son was about four or five years old, he loved the Dinobots so I ended up piecing together a set of G1 toys for him.
> I think Snarl and Sludge were loose vintage toys I got for fairly cheap, Slag was pieced together from two broken G1 units, and
> Snarl and Swoop were unlicensed reissues. They're not among his favorite toys today, though. He prefers the newer stuff, not
> the stuff his dad grew up with.

I think 4 is too young for serious action figures like Dinobots. The sweet spot is more like 10 years old when kids are interested in dinosaurs and technology. I don't know-maybe I'm emotionally retarded or a late bloomer or something. But I had Star Wars figures when I was 4 in '78 and those never really made as big an impression on me as the robots did when I was 10.

Also I think sealed toys have the biggest appeal-giving kids old, used loose toys doesn't have the same magic as them picking something out at the store themselves. Pictures of the Wal-Mart toy aisles of today will be the internet nostalgia of tomorrow that future generations will swoon over.

Re:Rodimus Prime:
> But if you could only own the G1 toy or the Kingdom toy, I think the new version is objectively better in every way. If you want a
> representation of the character, the newer version is almost always better.

Kingdom's non chromed smokestacks with a massive gap where they run vertically was a huge buzzkill for me. Rodimus' smokestacks have never been executed as well as G1. And the way the Kingdom cab sticks so far forward with the spoiler too far recessed was the dealkiller. So I'm not thinking the Kingdom vehicle mode is all that great. The PotP version is the best for me so far.