On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 7:14:47 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 7:01:12 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 14, 2023 at 10:45:01 PM UTC-7, vhorowitz wrote:
> >
> > Mandryka said "Nope. This is a BB like no other".
> >
> > John Gavin replied: "No. This is a BB like no other".
>
> Without an added smiley emoji, that was meant in a
> light humorous way.

It doesn'r come across that way without a smiley.

> I haven’t heard the Koch version yet, but I will.

Good luck. I don't doubt you will enjoy it.

> > Then Mandryka said "I like Koch because it
> > is full of inner life" -- whatever that means.
>
> That very description causes me to want to
> hear it even more! I find that to be a sincere
> and eloquent observation.

You are certainly welcome to do so, especially
if you know what Mandryka means by "inner life".
I have no idea, and I am completely puzzled and
befuddled when all one hears are boots stomping
on keys.

Take care,

dk

Op donderdag 15 juni 2023 om 20:30:57 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:

> Why would anyone want to be more like anyone else ?!?

There are many reasons. Most come down to the carrot/stick dilemma.

> There is an undercurrent of opinion in this ng that people
> should abide by some unwritten code of behavire that no
> one is willing or capable of stating and defending clearly.

That's not just for this ng. Codes of behavior make a group a group. There is no reason to define what makes a group 'our' group, as long as it's clear to 'us' and others.

> This is the same normative prescriptive coercive streak
> that poisons cultures and societies across the planet.

These coercive streaks make cultures and societies, even among animals.

> "Everyone" should "be" like "us" and "think" like "us". If
> one is not like "us" and doesn't "think" like "us", one is
> "arrogant", "narcissist", "ignorant", or whatever else
> Herman says.

All this is Group Dynamics 001.

> This is what the so called "discourse"
> appears to be in this group. Don't anyone dare have
> different taste, different opinions, different criteria,
> challenge established medieval "standards", etc...
> This is Herman's Reformation.

If I believed this group was so restrictive, I would leave.

As to Herman, he is as obsessed with you as you are with him. At primary school in the 1940s we would have considered that a positive sign. I know better now.

Henk

In article <918c2cbd-34eb-40f2-a955-ce59f4ab8262n@googlegroups.com>,
HT <hvtuijl@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>If I believed this group was so restrictive, I would leave.

The only one who is anything like so restrictive as this is DK
himself. He bosses & dictates, and then occasionally, he turns
around and claims that he's entitled to his own opinion. As if
that was in question. It's exactly what makes him unbearable --
that & that he won't just ignore musical topics that don't interest
him, which is most of them!

Op donderdag 15 juni 2023 om 21:51:05 UTC+2 schreef Todd M. McComb:
> In article <918c2cbd-34eb-40f2...@googlegroups.com>,
> HT <hvt...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >If I believed this group was so restrictive, I would leave.
> The only one who is anything like so restrictive as this is DK
> himself. He bosses & dictates, and then occasionally, he turns
> around and claims that he's entitled to his own opinion. As if
> that was in question. It's exactly what makes him unbearable --
> that & that he won't just ignore musical topics that don't interest
> him, which is most of them!

Perhaps you expect too much from DK. For example, to stop being unbearable. But that's what he is under the right star.

Henk

In article <fcd06b7d-27c1-434d-a8a3-b06a031722adn@googlegroups.com>,
HT <hvtuijl@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>Perhaps you expect too much from DK. For example, to stop being
>unbearable.

I don't expect him to change. That's why I have no further willingness
to interact with him.

Op donderdag 15 juni 2023 om 22:42:28 UTC+2 schreef Todd M. McComb:
> In article <fcd06b7d-27c1-434d...@googlegroups.com>,
> HT <hvt...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >Perhaps you expect too much from DK. For example, to stop being
> >unbearable.
> I don't expect him to change. That's why I have no further willingness
> to interact with him.

If you think about him that way, it is an elegant solution. I'd prefer it to shout "Order, order!". That's never very helpful.

Henk

On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 5:17:22 PM UTC-4, HT wrote:
> Op donderdag 15 juni 2023 om 22:42:28 UTC+2 schreef Todd M. McComb:
> > In article <fcd06b7d-27c1-434d...@googlegroups.com>,
> > HT <hvt...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> > >Perhaps you expect too much from DK. For example, to stop being
> > >unbearable.
> > I don't expect him to change. That's why I have no further willingness
> > to interact with him.
> If you think about him that way, it is an elegant solution. I'd prefer it to shout "Order, order!". That's never very helpful.
>
> Henk

Just one more thought. Many of us have been around for eons on RMCR, through the Ansermaniac & Deacon times, etc. Ok, say we all understand and accept Dan on some level, even if some of us also start a kvetch-fest here and there….but, assuming someone new comes along and makes the fateful, life-altering, possibly turned-into-Charlie-Brown-needs-to-see-a-psychiatrist decision to participiate with our young, middle, and old age farts here, and is greeting with a dose of Dan? Do they run? Do they embrace the chaos? Shouldn’t we worry just a bit? Or have we all driven them away already?

Btw, haven’t seen John Fowler post in ages, either here or on Amazon reviews. Does anyone know if he’s still among us….and doing ok??

On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 12:35:54 PM UTC-7, HT wrote:
> Op donderdag 15 juni 2023 om 20:30:57 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:
>
> > Why would anyone want to be more like anyone else ?!?
>
> There are many reasons. Most come
> down to the carrot/stick dilemma.

Disgusting.

> > There is an undercurrent of opinion in this ng that people
> > should abide by some unwritten code of behavire that no
> > one is willing or capable of stating and defending clearly.
>
> That's not just for this ng. Codes of behavior make a group a
> group. There is no reason to define what makes a group 'our'
> group, as long as it's clear to 'us' and others.

How do "codes of behavior" become "clear" to "others" without
being formally defined and written down? This might have
worked for small, social, culturally and ethnically homogenous
communities centuries ago. It does not work, and cannot work
in the internet age. The very language you used to describe the
concept is medieval.

> > This is the same normative prescriptive coercive streak
> > that poisons cultures and societies across the planet.
>
> These coercive streaks make cultures and societies,
> even among animals.

This is a medieval notion of "culture" and "societies".

> > "Everyone" should "be" like "us" and "think" like "us". If
> > one is not like "us" and doesn't "think" like "us", one is
> > "arrogant", "narcissist", "ignorant", or whatever else
> > Herman says.
>
> All this is Group Dynamics 001.

No lectures, please.

> > This is what the so called "discourse"
> > appears to be in this group. Don't anyone dare have
> > different taste, different opinions, different criteria,
> > challenge established medieval "standards", etc...
> > This is Herman's Reformation.
>
> If I believed this group was so restrictive, I would leave.

It might not appear as restrictive to you as it appears
to others.

> As to Herman, he is as obsessed with you as you are
> with him. At primary school in the 1940s we would have
> considered that a positive sign. I know better now.

I am not "obsessed" with Herman or with anyone else.

My only interest in the matter is to keep this group as
sane, balanced and free of prejudice of any kind as it
is humanly and felinely possible.

dk

On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 2:17:22 PM UTC-7, HT wrote:
> Op donderdag 15 juni 2023 om 22:42:28 UTC+2 schreef Todd M. McComb:
> > In article <fcd06b7d-27c1-434d...@googlegroups.com>,
> > HT <hvt...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> > >Perhaps you expect too much from DK. For example, to stop being
> > >unbearable.
> > I don't expect him to change. That's why I have no further willingness
> > to interact with him.
> If you think about him that way, it is an elegant solution. I'd
> prefer it to shout "Order, order!". That's never very helpful.

You have no standing to shout "order", nor does anyone else.
You get what you paid for (or rather did not) when you objected
to moderating the group. You want one set of rules everyone
follows? Moderate.

dk

Op vrijdag 16 juni 2023 om 01:51:53 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:

> How do "codes of behavior" become "clear" to "others" without
> being formally defined and written down? This might have
> worked for small, social, culturally and ethnically homogenous
> communities centuries ago. It does not work, and cannot work
> in the internet age. The very language you used to describe the
> concept is medieval.

RMCR is a small culturally homogenous group. In the Middle Ages you could find them in cloisters, discussing and copying incunables.

> No lectures, please.

Referring to a lecture isn't a lecture.

> It might not appear as restrictive to you as it appears
> to others.

It isn't restrictive at all. If it were, I would leave.

> I am not "obsessed" with Herman or with anyone else.

If you say so ...

> My only interest in the matter is to keep this group as
> sane, balanced and free of prejudice of any kind as it
> is humanly and felinely possible.

I never doubted your noble intentions.

Henk

Op vrijdag 16 juni 2023 om 03:06:46 UTC+2 schreef HT:
> Op vrijdag 16 juni 2023 om 01:51:53 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:
> > How do "codes of behavior" become "clear" to "others" without
> > being formally defined and written down? This might have
> > worked for small, social, culturally and ethnically homogenous
> > communities centuries ago. It does not work, and cannot work
> > in the internet age. The very language you used to describe the
> > concept is medieval.
> RMCR is a small culturally homogenous group. In the Middle Ages you could find them in cloisters, discussing and copying incunables.*
>
> > No lectures, please.
>
> Referring to a lecture isn't a lecture.
> > It might not appear as restrictive to you as it appears
> > to others.
> It isn't restrictive at all. If it were, I would leave.
> > I am not "obsessed" with Herman or with anyone else.
> If you say so ...
> > My only interest in the matter is to keep this group as
> > sane, balanced and free of prejudice of any kind as it
> > is humanly and felinely possible.
> I never doubted your noble intentions.
>
> Henk

* Manuscripts

On Friday, June 16, 2023 at 1:51:53 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
>
>
> My only interest in the matter is to keep this group as
> sane, balanced and free of prejudice of any kind as it
> is humanly possible.

Sez the most insane, unbalanced and prejudiced person on this group.

Why these endless disingenuous retail politics?
This is not a popularity contest.
You want to post as many posts as you humanly can, all just blind youtube links? No one can stop you.
You want to post endless screeds about how this ng should be without ever considering your own decades long practice? Go right ahead. No one will believe you.
You want to persecute people for years, just to relieve your inner boredom?
Go right ahead. No one can stop you.
This group is unmoderated and will ever be so, until you're the last man posting.
It's all just filling up the bandwidth, which seems to be your nr 1 priority in life.
You're like that doddering old guy who names everything he sees to his long suffering wife.
Except 'your wife' is RMCR.
No one can stop you.
>
> dk

vhorowitz schrieb am Freitag, 16. Juni 2023 um 00:55:51 UTC+2:
> On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 5:17:22 PM UTC-4, HT wrote:
> > Op donderdag 15 juni 2023 om 22:42:28 UTC+2 schreef Todd M. McComb:
> > > In article <fcd06b7d-27c1-434d...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > HT <hvt...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> > > >Perhaps you expect too much from DK. For example, to stop being
> > > >unbearable.
> > > I don't expect him to change. That's why I have no further willingness
> > > to interact with him.
> > If you think about him that way, it is an elegant solution. I'd prefer it to shout "Order, order!". That's never very helpful.
> >
> > Henk
> Just one more thought. Many of us have been around for eons on RMCR, through the Ansermaniac & Deacon times, etc. Ok, say we all understand and accept Dan on some level, even if some of us also start a kvetch-fest here and there….but, assuming someone new comes along and makes the fateful, life-altering, possibly turned-into-Charlie-Brown-needs-to-see-a-psychiatrist decision to participiate with our young, middle, and old age farts here, and is greeting with a dose of Dan? Do they run? Do they embrace the chaos? Shouldn’t we worry just a bit?

No... we should be worried by the people who react allergic to Dan - say Herman. Dan's behaviour is actually good in sorting out idiots.

On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 3:55:51 PM UTC-7, vhorowitz wrote:
> On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 5:17:22 PM UTC-4, HT wrote:
> > Op donderdag 15 juni 2023 om 22:42:28 UTC+2 schreef Todd M. McComb:
> > > In article <fcd06b7d-27c1-434d...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > HT <hvt...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> > > >Perhaps you expect too much from DK. For example, to stop being
> > > >unbearable.
> > > I don't expect him to change. That's why I have no further willingness
> > > to interact with him.
> > If you think about him that way, it is an elegant solution. I'd prefer it to shout "Order, order!". That's never very helpful.
> >
> > Henk
> Just one more thought. Many of us have been around for eons on RMCR, through the Ansermaniac & Deacon times, etc. Ok, say we all understand and accept Dan on some level, even if some of us also start a kvetch-fest here and there….but, assuming someone new comes along and makes the fateful, life-altering, possibly turned-into-Charlie-Brown-needs-to-see-a-psychiatrist decision to participiate with our young, middle, and old age farts here....

Old age farts?:

https://giphy.com/gifs/thegoodfilms-robert-de-niro-taxi-driver-movie-CYUDHVmioGETu

On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 10:58:33 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 3:55:51 PM UTC-7, vhorowitz wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 5:17:22 PM UTC-4, HT wrote:
> > > Op donderdag 15 juni 2023 om 22:42:28 UTC+2 schreef Todd M. McComb:
> > > > In article <fcd06b7d-27c1-434d...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > HT <hvt...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> > > > >Perhaps you expect too much from DK. For example, to stop being
> > > > >unbearable.
> > > > I don't expect him to change. That's why I have no further willingness
> > > > to interact with him.
> > > If you think about him that way, it is an elegant solution. I'd prefer it to shout "Order, order!". That's never very helpful.
> > >
> > > Henk
> > Just one more thought. Many of us have been around for eons on RMCR, through the Ansermaniac & Deacon times, etc. Ok, say we all understand and accept Dan on some level, even if some of us also start a kvetch-fest here and there….but, assuming someone new comes along and makes the fateful, life-altering, possibly turned-into-Charlie-Brown-needs-to-see-a-psychiatrist decision to participiate with our young, middle, and old age farts here...
>
> Old age farts?:
>
> https://giphy.com/gifs/thegoodfilms-robert-de-niro-taxi-driver-movie-CYUDHVmioGETu

https://giphy.com/gifs/thegoodfilms-taxi-driver-FhrmqGb83NJwA