djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>In article <sb68ggloqpt66kdpol3p4rjgh0ida3o33c@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>We have possums as well as raccoons. Also beavers, but those are
>>mostly in the parks near water. And, if IIRC what has been reported on
>>Nextdoor, coyotes. Not to mention the raptors.
>
>Well, we do have raptors around here, but mostly they soar high
>over the freeways, waiting for roadkill.

Here, they spend all afternoon riding the thermals in the
sunny summer afternoons. I've seen up to two dozen
turkey vultures dancing in the sky in the afternoon.

>
>>Over in Spokane, they occasionally have cougars (aka mountain lions,
>>etc). Of course, they also have Cougars, local college football
>>players. Sometimes it's hard to tell which of them a given story is
>>about.
>
>Heh. We have mountain lions up in the East Bay hills, but I

And the morth and west bay hills, coast (my niece lost a dog to a mountain
lion in Pescadero a couple of years ago), and south bay (I've
seen them at Santa Teresa county park and Alamden Quicksilver
county park, and at Point Bonita in the marin headlands).

We also have bobcats, which I've encountered at Santa Teresa county
park, and plenty of coyote.

On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 16:30:15 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 06:31:46 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
> <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> >On 7/30/2021 6:20 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> >> On 28/07/2021 23.40, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> >>> On 7/28/2021 8:51 PM, Kevrob wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a large bag of bottles and another of cans that I need to take
> >>>> to the supermarket for redemption. They have machines for the
> >>>> purpose. I should get a new used vehicle, first. I could take 1 bag
> >>>> at a time via bus. Maybe when it cools down, some.
> >>>>
> >>> We used to have some of those machines around here. The guy who owned
> >>> them (or whatever) pulled them all because he wasn't making any money
> >>> off them. (Or not enough money, same thing either way.) Now I have
> >>> to take them all to the local waste disposal authority's buy back
> >>> site. Which has been shut down for at least a year now because of COVID.
> >>> <typing>
> >>> Bleep! Its permanently closed now! Apparently the space was taken by
> >>> an upgrade to their sorting capabilities. The nearest facility now is
> >>> a ten mile drive each way! <censored>
> >>
> >> Wow. You don't have curbside recycling pickup right along with your
> >> trash pickup? Every trash company that I've had since the mid-1990s
> >> did both. My current one even has single-stream recycling, so that
> >> I no longer need to sort into paper, aluminum, glass, ...
> >>
> >Oh, there's curbside pickup of recyclables. But there's almost no
> >Redemption Value buy back sites to get back that $0.05 or $0.10 a bottle
> >we have to pay for a drink container and the like. The whole point of
> >which was to give people an incentive to recycle.
> >
> >And the local waste authority has been moving AWAY from single stream
> >for years. We have "Trash" (Landfill), paper, food-grade plastic &
> >metal (that "food-grade" is very strict) and compost. And woe the
> >address that doesn't separate correctly in to the different bins!
> If our Congress was any good they would have the Bureau of Standards
> come up with a standard recycling stream that includes oily pizza
> boxes, Styrofoam, plastic bags, and soda straws and start fining
> recycling companies that can't deal with it.

We burn that. What else would you do with it?

Given, for a start, everything in that bin is covered with
oily Styrofoam beads, and trickles of soda.

On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 12:25:11 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
> >In article <sb68ggloqpt66kdpo...@4ax.com>,
> >Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>We have possums as well as raccoons. Also beavers, but those are
> >>mostly in the parks near water. And, if IIRC what has been reported on
> >>Nextdoor, coyotes. Not to mention the raptors.
> >
> >Well, we do have raptors around here, but mostly they soar high
> >over the freeways, waiting for roadkill.
> Here, they spend all afternoon riding the thermals in the
> sunny summer afternoons. I've seen up to two dozen
> turkey vultures dancing in the sky in the afternoon.
> >
> >>Over in Spokane, they occasionally have cougars (aka mountain lions,
> >>etc). Of course, they also have Cougars, local college football
> >>players. Sometimes it's hard to tell which of them a given story is
> >>about.
> >
> >Heh. We have mountain lions up in the East Bay hills, but I
> And the morth and west bay hills, coast (my niece lost a dog to a mountain
> lion in Pescadero a couple of years ago), and south bay (I've
> seen them at Santa Teresa county park and Alamden Quicksilver
> county park, and at Point Bonita in the marin headlands).
>
> We also have bobcats, which I've encountered at Santa Teresa county
> park, and plenty of coyote.

People are always reporting sightings of big cats around here {cougar,
mountain lion, puma, wildcat, catamount, panther...how many aliases
has this cat got?...) but they always turn out to be bobcats - and not the
ones from Quinnipiac U. {First time I heard that name it sounded like
an Irishman who needed to induce vomiting. :) } We do have coyotes.
`Yotes are everywhere. Black bear have been making a comeback.
2020 had record sightings. I wonder if that is connected to more people
being at home during the day to see them, plus the increasing deployment
of home security cameras? Yogi and Boo-Boo must love it when grocers
and Grubhub drivers drop "pic-a-nic baskets" on the front stoop or porch.
The relevant state department reported 7k + sightings in 2019, so tiny
CT was seeing our share even in "the before times."

We had a "suicide by Buick" reported this week, not far from me.

https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Police-Bear-put-down-after-being-hit-by-car-in-16345356.php

This is a not-unusual fate for the state's deer, but drivers should
also watch for bear and moose.

--
Kevin R
a.a #2310

On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 11:21:59 AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:07:10 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
> wrote:
> >"Michael F. Stemper" <michael...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>On 28/07/2021 23.40, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> >>> On 7/28/2021 8:51 PM, Kevrob wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a large bag of bottles and another of cans that I need to take
> >>>> to the supermarket for redemption. They have machines for the
> >>>> purpose. I should get a new used vehicle, first. I could take 1 bag
> >>>> at a time via bus. Maybe when it cools down, some.
> >>>>
> >>> We used to have some of those machines around here. The guy who owned
> >>> them (or whatever) pulled them all because he wasn't making any money
> >>> off them. (Or not enough money, same thing either way.) Now I have to
> >>> take them all to the local waste disposal authority's buy back site.
> >>> Which has been shut down for at least a year now because of COVID.
> >>> <typing>
> >>> Bleep! Its permanently closed now! Apparently the space was taken by
> >>> an upgrade to their sorting capabilities. The nearest facility now is a
> >>> ten mile drive each way! <censored>
> >>
> >>Wow. You don't have curbside recycling pickup right along with your
> >>trash pickup?
> >
> >Sure, but they don't pay you for your bottles and cans like
> >the redememtion centers (or recycling operations for Al cans)
> >
> >Remember the days of reusable pop bottles, when every grocery
> >store was equipped to take returns and return the deposit?
> I remember that being a big deal in Oregon, for some reason.
>
> I remember collecting (and washing) "empties" from a
> several-block-radius of houses. These were alcoholic, mostly beer.
>
> Maybe it's time to end the "deposit", and simply require the
> recycling.
>
> Or, rather, /past/ time.

The deposit was to prevent littering. It worked, by making it worthwhile for
poor people to pick up cans and bottles.

Myself, the deposit cans and bottles go straight into recycling. It's simply
not worth my time to retrieve those nickels.

Pt

In article <729a998d-299b-4c4e-ab6a-9a99e9a8e864n@googlegroups.com>,
Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
>On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 12:25:11 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>> >In article <sb68ggloqpt66kdpo...@4ax.com>,
>> >Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>We have possums as well as raccoons. Also beavers, but those are
>> >>mostly in the parks near water. And, if IIRC what has been reported on
>> >>Nextdoor, coyotes. Not to mention the raptors.
>> >
>> >Well, we do have raptors around here, but mostly they soar high
>> >over the freeways, waiting for roadkill.
>> Here, they spend all afternoon riding the thermals in the
>> sunny summer afternoons. I've seen up to two dozen
>> turkey vultures dancing in the sky in the afternoon.
>> >
>> >>Over in Spokane, they occasionally have cougars (aka mountain lions,
>> >>etc). Of course, they also have Cougars, local college football
>> >>players. Sometimes it's hard to tell which of them a given story is
>> >>about.
>> >
>> >Heh. We have mountain lions up in the East Bay hills, but I
>> And the morth and west bay hills, coast (my niece lost a dog to a mountain
>> lion in Pescadero a couple of years ago), and south bay (I've
>> seen them at Santa Teresa county park and Alamden Quicksilver
>> county park, and at Point Bonita in the marin headlands).
>>
>> We also have bobcats, which I've encountered at Santa Teresa county
>> park, and plenty of coyote.
>
>People are always reporting sightings of big cats around here {cougar,
>mountain lion, puma, wildcat, catamount, panther...how many aliases
>has this cat got?...) but they always turn out to be bobcats - and not the
>ones from Quinnipiac U.

Awwww. I wouldn't freak out at the sight of a bobcat. They're
cute: more to the point, they're small. Display at them, they'd
run.

>`Yotes are everywhere. Black bear have been making a comeback.
>2020 had record sightings. I wonder if that is connected to more people
>being at home during the day to see them....

Plus lockdown keeping humans indoors. I've seen videos of
various wild and semi-wild critters invading suburbs and eating
all the flowerbeds.

>This is a not-unusual fate for the state's deer, but drivers should
>also watch for bear and moose.

Not, fortunately, in the middle of Vallejo. The only wildlife
I've seen in town was that vulture scarfing roadkill in front of
my house.

In addition to which we have squirrels and scrub jays who get
into noisy fights every fall in acorn season.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 09:41:31 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 16:30:15 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 06:31:46 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>> <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On 7/30/2021 6:20 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>> >> On 28/07/2021 23.40, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> >>> On 7/28/2021 8:51 PM, Kevrob wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I have a large bag of bottles and another of cans that I need to take
>> >>>> to the supermarket for redemption. They have machines for the
>> >>>> purpose. I should get a new used vehicle, first. I could take 1 bag
>> >>>> at a time via bus. Maybe when it cools down, some.
>> >>>>
>> >>> We used to have some of those machines around here. The guy who owned
>> >>> them (or whatever) pulled them all because he wasn't making any money
>> >>> off them. (Or not enough money, same thing either way.) Now I have
>> >>> to take them all to the local waste disposal authority's buy back
>> >>> site. Which has been shut down for at least a year now because of COVID.
>> >>> <typing>
>> >>> Bleep! Its permanently closed now! Apparently the space was taken by
>> >>> an upgrade to their sorting capabilities. The nearest facility now is
>> >>> a ten mile drive each way! <censored>
>> >>
>> >> Wow. You don't have curbside recycling pickup right along with your
>> >> trash pickup? Every trash company that I've had since the mid-1990s
>> >> did both. My current one even has single-stream recycling, so that
>> >> I no longer need to sort into paper, aluminum, glass, ...
>> >>
>> >Oh, there's curbside pickup of recyclables. But there's almost no
>> >Redemption Value buy back sites to get back that $0.05 or $0.10 a bottle
>> >we have to pay for a drink container and the like. The whole point of
>> >which was to give people an incentive to recycle.
>> >
>> >And the local waste authority has been moving AWAY from single stream
>> >for years. We have "Trash" (Landfill), paper, food-grade plastic &
>> >metal (that "food-grade" is very strict) and compost. And woe the
>> >address that doesn't separate correctly in to the different bins!
>> If our Congress was any good they would have the Bureau of Standards
>> come up with a standard recycling stream that includes oily pizza
>> boxes, Styrofoam, plastic bags, and soda straws and start fining
>> recycling companies that can't deal with it.
>
>We burn that. What else would you do with it?

They need to figure out a way to deal with oily paper instead of just
throwing up their hands and saying "we can't deal with it".

As for the rest, it's all plastic of one kind or another, melt it down
and use to make other plastic artifacts.

>Given, for a start, everything in that bin is covered with
>oily Styrofoam beads, and trickles of soda.

In a properly managed society, IMO, there would be one waste bin all
of whose contents get sorted and reused or destroyed as appropriate.
Yes, it means the reyclers have to work harder. So why should _they_
get an easy ride on the backs of the rest of us?

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 11:59:05 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
wrote:

>On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 12:25:11 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>> >In article <sb68ggloqpt66kdpo...@4ax.com>,
>> >Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>We have possums as well as raccoons. Also beavers, but those are
>> >>mostly in the parks near water. And, if IIRC what has been reported on
>> >>Nextdoor, coyotes. Not to mention the raptors.
>> >
>> >Well, we do have raptors around here, but mostly they soar high
>> >over the freeways, waiting for roadkill.
>> Here, they spend all afternoon riding the thermals in the
>> sunny summer afternoons. I've seen up to two dozen
>> turkey vultures dancing in the sky in the afternoon.
>> >
>> >>Over in Spokane, they occasionally have cougars (aka mountain lions,
>> >>etc). Of course, they also have Cougars, local college football
>> >>players. Sometimes it's hard to tell which of them a given story is
>> >>about.
>> >
>> >Heh. We have mountain lions up in the East Bay hills, but I
>> And the morth and west bay hills, coast (my niece lost a dog to a mountain
>> lion in Pescadero a couple of years ago), and south bay (I've
>> seen them at Santa Teresa county park and Alamden Quicksilver
>> county park, and at Point Bonita in the marin headlands).
>>
>> We also have bobcats, which I've encountered at Santa Teresa county
>> park, and plenty of coyote.
>
>People are always reporting sightings of big cats around here {cougar,
>mountain lion, puma, wildcat, catamount, panther...how many aliases
>has this cat got?...) but they always turn out to be bobcats - and not the
>ones from Quinnipiac U. {First time I heard that name it sounded like
>an Irishman who needed to induce vomiting. :) } We do have coyotes.
>`Yotes are everywhere. Black bear have been making a comeback.
>2020 had record sightings. I wonder if that is connected to more people
>being at home during the day to see them, plus the increasing deployment
>of home security cameras? Yogi and Boo-Boo must love it when grocers
>and Grubhub drivers drop "pic-a-nic baskets" on the front stoop or porch.
>The relevant state department reported 7k + sightings in 2019, so tiny
>CT was seeing our share even in "the before times."
>
>We had a "suicide by Buick" reported this week, not far from me.
>
>https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Police-Bear-put-down-after-being-hit-by-car-in-16345356.php
>
>This is a not-unusual fate for the state's deer, but drivers should
>also watch for bear and moose.

That's one way to deal with the troublesome bears that we are not
allowed to shoot.

All of our legislators should be made it sit in a cage with a hungry
bear for 48 hours. The ones who survive might have a more reasonable
attitude toward managing the bear population.

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 21:12:14 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <729a998d-299b-4c4e-ab6a-9a99e9a8e864n@googlegroups.com>,
>Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 12:25:11 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>> >In article <sb68ggloqpt66kdpo...@4ax.com>,
>>> >Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>We have possums as well as raccoons. Also beavers, but those are
>>> >>mostly in the parks near water. And, if IIRC what has been reported on
>>> >>Nextdoor, coyotes. Not to mention the raptors.
>>> >
>>> >Well, we do have raptors around here, but mostly they soar high
>>> >over the freeways, waiting for roadkill.
>>> Here, they spend all afternoon riding the thermals in the
>>> sunny summer afternoons. I've seen up to two dozen
>>> turkey vultures dancing in the sky in the afternoon.
>>> >
>>> >>Over in Spokane, they occasionally have cougars (aka mountain lions,
>>> >>etc). Of course, they also have Cougars, local college football
>>> >>players. Sometimes it's hard to tell which of them a given story is
>>> >>about.
>>> >
>>> >Heh. We have mountain lions up in the East Bay hills, but I
>>> And the morth and west bay hills, coast (my niece lost a dog to a mountain
>>> lion in Pescadero a couple of years ago), and south bay (I've
>>> seen them at Santa Teresa county park and Alamden Quicksilver
>>> county park, and at Point Bonita in the marin headlands).
>>>
>>> We also have bobcats, which I've encountered at Santa Teresa county
>>> park, and plenty of coyote.
>>
>>People are always reporting sightings of big cats around here {cougar,
>>mountain lion, puma, wildcat, catamount, panther...how many aliases
>>has this cat got?...) but they always turn out to be bobcats - and not the
>>ones from Quinnipiac U.
>
>Awwww. I wouldn't freak out at the sight of a bobcat. They're
>cute: more to the point, they're small. Display at them, they'd
>run.
>
>>`Yotes are everywhere. Black bear have been making a comeback.
>>2020 had record sightings. I wonder if that is connected to more people
>>being at home during the day to see them....
>
>Plus lockdown keeping humans indoors. I've seen videos of
>various wild and semi-wild critters invading suburbs and eating
>all the flowerbeds.
>
>
>>This is a not-unusual fate for the state's deer, but drivers should
>>also watch for bear and moose.
>
>Not, fortunately, in the middle of Vallejo. The only wildlife
>I've seen in town was that vulture scarfing roadkill in front of
>my house.
>
>In addition to which we have squirrels and scrub jays who get
>into noisy fights every fall in acorn season.

I have occasionally seen deer in the back yard. For a while a fox was
living in the shed. There are rabbits in residence--I don't know
where they live but in the morning they're usually out in the front
yard silflaying clover. I regularly see turkeys when out and about
but non have visited me of which I am aware. One did descent in front
of me about a block away from here though--that's a driving
emergency--the wings block the view and if you hit the thing it will
do damage. Speaking of which, I was driving along one night and an
owl came out of nowhere across the road--did 1500 bucks worth of
damage to the Jeep. I was unable to find the owl--I hope it didn't
suffer.

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 09:41:31 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 16:30:15 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 06:31:46 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>>> <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On 7/30/2021 6:20 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>> >> On 28/07/2021 23.40, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>> >>> On 7/28/2021 8:51 PM, Kevrob wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I have a large bag of bottles and another of cans that I need to take
>>> >>>> to the supermarket for redemption. They have machines for the
>>> >>>> purpose. I should get a new used vehicle, first. I could take 1 bag
>>> >>>> at a time via bus. Maybe when it cools down, some.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>> We used to have some of those machines around here. The guy who owned
>>> >>> them (or whatever) pulled them all because he wasn't making any money
>>> >>> off them. (Or not enough money, same thing either way.) Now I have
>>> >>> to take them all to the local waste disposal authority's buy back
>>> >>> site. Which has been shut down for at least a year now because of COVID.
>>> >>> <typing>
>>> >>> Bleep! Its permanently closed now! Apparently the space was taken by
>>> >>> an upgrade to their sorting capabilities. The nearest facility now is
>>> >>> a ten mile drive each way! <censored>
>>> >>
>>> >> Wow. You don't have curbside recycling pickup right along with your
>>> >> trash pickup? Every trash company that I've had since the mid-1990s
>>> >> did both. My current one even has single-stream recycling, so that
>>> >> I no longer need to sort into paper, aluminum, glass, ...
>>> >>
>>> >Oh, there's curbside pickup of recyclables. But there's almost no
>>> >Redemption Value buy back sites to get back that $0.05 or $0.10 a bottle
>>> >we have to pay for a drink container and the like. The whole point of
>>> >which was to give people an incentive to recycle.
>>> >
>>> >And the local waste authority has been moving AWAY from single stream
>>> >for years. We have "Trash" (Landfill), paper, food-grade plastic &
>>> >metal (that "food-grade" is very strict) and compost. And woe the
>>> >address that doesn't separate correctly in to the different bins!
>>> If our Congress was any good they would have the Bureau of Standards
>>> come up with a standard recycling stream that includes oily pizza
>>> boxes, Styrofoam, plastic bags, and soda straws and start fining
>>> recycling companies that can't deal with it.
>>
>>We burn that. What else would you do with it?
>
>They need to figure out a way to deal with oily paper instead of just
>throwing up their hands and saying "we can't deal with it".
>
>As for the rest, it's all plastic of one kind or another, melt it down
>and use to make other plastic artifacts.

Why do you think they haven't tried?

"Moreover, there are 2 types of plastics: thermoset vs.
thermoplastics. Thermoplastics are plastics that can be
re-melted and re-molded into new products, and therefore,
recycled. However, thermoset plastics contain polymers that
cross-link to form an irreversible chemical bond, meaning
that no matter how much heat you apply, they cannot be remelted
into new material and hence, non-recyclable."

"The same piece of plastic can only be recycled about 2-3
times before its quality decreases to the point where
it can no longer be used."

The solution is to not use plastics for single-use purposes.

On 7/30/2021 5:41 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 09:41:31 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 16:30:15 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 06:31:46 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>>>> <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/30/2021 6:20 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>>>>> On 28/07/2021 23.40, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/28/2021 8:51 PM, Kevrob wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a large bag of bottles and another of cans that I need to take
>>>>>>>> to the supermarket for redemption. They have machines for the
>>>>>>>> purpose. I should get a new used vehicle, first. I could take 1 bag
>>>>>>>> at a time via bus. Maybe when it cools down, some.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We used to have some of those machines around here. The guy who owned
>>>>>>> them (or whatever) pulled them all because he wasn't making any money
>>>>>>> off them. (Or not enough money, same thing either way.) Now I have
>>>>>>> to take them all to the local waste disposal authority's buy back
>>>>>>> site. Which has been shut down for at least a year now because of COVID.
>>>>>>> <typing>
>>>>>>> Bleep! Its permanently closed now! Apparently the space was taken by
>>>>>>> an upgrade to their sorting capabilities. The nearest facility now is
>>>>>>> a ten mile drive each way! <censored>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow. You don't have curbside recycling pickup right along with your
>>>>>> trash pickup? Every trash company that I've had since the mid-1990s
>>>>>> did both. My current one even has single-stream recycling, so that
>>>>>> I no longer need to sort into paper, aluminum, glass, ...
>>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, there's curbside pickup of recyclables. But there's almost no
>>>>> Redemption Value buy back sites to get back that $0.05 or $0.10 a bottle
>>>>> we have to pay for a drink container and the like. The whole point of
>>>>> which was to give people an incentive to recycle.
>>>>>
>>>>> And the local waste authority has been moving AWAY from single stream
>>>>> for years. We have "Trash" (Landfill), paper, food-grade plastic &
>>>>> metal (that "food-grade" is very strict) and compost. And woe the
>>>>> address that doesn't separate correctly in to the different bins!
>>>> If our Congress was any good they would have the Bureau of Standards
>>>> come up with a standard recycling stream that includes oily pizza
>>>> boxes, Styrofoam, plastic bags, and soda straws and start fining
>>>> recycling companies that can't deal with it.
>>>
>>> We burn that. What else would you do with it?
>>
>> They need to figure out a way to deal with oily paper instead of just
>> throwing up their hands and saying "we can't deal with it".
>>
>> As for the rest, it's all plastic of one kind or another, melt it down
>> and use to make other plastic artifacts.
>
> Why do you think they haven't tried?
>
> "Moreover, there are 2 types of plastics: thermoset vs.
> thermoplastics. Thermoplastics are plastics that can be
> re-melted and re-molded into new products, and therefore,
> recycled. However, thermoset plastics contain polymers that
> cross-link to form an irreversible chemical bond, meaning
> that no matter how much heat you apply, they cannot be remelted
> into new material and hence, non-recyclable."
>
> "The same piece of plastic can only be recycled about 2-3
> times before its quality decreases to the point where
> it can no longer be used."
>
>
> The solution is to not use plastics for single-use purposes.
>
If only in practice EVERYTHING wasn't single-use today.

--
Troll, troll, troll your post gently down the thread
Angrily, angrily, angrily, the net's a nut's scream.

J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:

> As for the rest, it's all plastic of one kind or another, melt it down
> and use to make other plastic artifacts.

You can do that (and it is being done) but of course there are
some problems such as changes in the polymer during use (polymer
chain degradation, oxidation, additives being used up), the fact
that most polymers are not compatible with each other so that they
cannot be mixed, how to get a relatively pure recycle stream, the
fact that modern plastics films, for example, are multi-component
multi-layer, etc.

It is virtually impossible to get a polymer of the same quality
from direct recycling as it was originally.

Going back to monomers and polymerizing again will be needed.

On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 22:57:01 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 09:41:31 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 16:30:15 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 06:31:46 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
> >> <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 7/30/2021 6:20 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> >> >> On 28/07/2021 23.40, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> >> >>> On 7/28/2021 8:51 PM, Kevrob wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I have a large bag of bottles and another of cans that I need to take
> >> >>>> to the supermarket for redemption. They have machines for the
> >> >>>> purpose. I should get a new used vehicle, first. I could take 1 bag
> >> >>>> at a time via bus. Maybe when it cools down, some.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> We used to have some of those machines around here. The guy who owned
> >> >>> them (or whatever) pulled them all because he wasn't making any money
> >> >>> off them. (Or not enough money, same thing either way.) Now I have
> >> >>> to take them all to the local waste disposal authority's buy back
> >> >>> site. Which has been shut down for at least a year now because of COVID.
> >> >>> <typing>
> >> >>> Bleep! Its permanently closed now! Apparently the space was taken by
> >> >>> an upgrade to their sorting capabilities. The nearest facility now is
> >> >>> a ten mile drive each way! <censored>
> >> >>
> >> >> Wow. You don't have curbside recycling pickup right along with your
> >> >> trash pickup? Every trash company that I've had since the mid-1990s
> >> >> did both. My current one even has single-stream recycling, so that
> >> >> I no longer need to sort into paper, aluminum, glass, ...
> >> >>
> >> >Oh, there's curbside pickup of recyclables. But there's almost no
> >> >Redemption Value buy back sites to get back that $0.05 or $0.10 a bottle
> >> >we have to pay for a drink container and the like. The whole point of
> >> >which was to give people an incentive to recycle.
> >> >
> >> >And the local waste authority has been moving AWAY from single stream
> >> >for years. We have "Trash" (Landfill), paper, food-grade plastic &
> >> >metal (that "food-grade" is very strict) and compost. And woe the
> >> >address that doesn't separate correctly in to the different bins!
> >> If our Congress was any good they would have the Bureau of Standards
> >> come up with a standard recycling stream that includes oily pizza
> >> boxes, Styrofoam, plastic bags, and soda straws and start fining
> >> recycling companies that can't deal with it.
> >
> >We burn that. What else would you do with it?
>
> They need to figure out a way to deal with oily paper instead of just
> throwing up their hands and saying "we can't deal with it".

Very well: specify.

But food packaging paper doesn't recycle well anyway.

> As for the rest, it's all plastic of one kind or another, melt it down
> and use to make other plastic artifacts.
> >Given, for a start, everything in that bin is covered with
> >oily Styrofoam beads, and trickles of soda.
>
> In a properly managed society, IMO, there would be one waste bin all
> of whose contents get sorted and reused or destroyed as appropriate.
> Yes, it means the reyclers have to work harder. So why should _they_
> get an easy ride on the backs of the rest of us?

Turn it around. Why should someone else handle
your trash responsibly if you don't? Who is so much
beneath you that they deserve to do that? And how
much are you willing to pay for that work to be done
on your behalf?

The residual waste stream includes human and
animal excrement, broken glassware (doesn't recycle),
rotten food, other horrors... would you, personally,
accept any product that was "recycled" out of that?

On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 08:49:46 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
<tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:

>J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>
>> As for the rest, it's all plastic of one kind or another, melt it down
>> and use to make other plastic artifacts.
>
>You can do that (and it is being done) but of course there are
>some problems such as changes in the polymer during use (polymer
>chain degradation, oxidation, additives being used up), the fact
>that most polymers are not compatible with each other so that they
>cannot be mixed, how to get a relatively pure recycle stream, the
>fact that modern plastics films, for example, are multi-component
>multi-layer, etc.
>
>It is virtually impossible to get a polymer of the same quality
>from direct recycling as it was originally.

Actually, an article I read a while back in /Science News/ (which I
think was this one:
<https://www.sciencenews.org/article/chemistry-recycling-plastic-landfills-trash-materials>)
discusses the problem and reports some lab-only techniques that avoid
that problem. In some cases. Maybe. If they can be commercialized.

>Going back to monomers and polymerizing again will be needed.

Which may be precisely what the article is talking about --
specifically, in the section titled "Good As New", down toward the end
of the article.

And an attempt at commercialization of (if I understood the article
correctly) breaking PET down appears to be in progress, in France.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:01:11 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <sb68ggloqpt66kdpol3p4rjgh0ida3o33c@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>We have possums as well as raccoons. Also beavers, but those are
>>mostly in the parks near water. And, if IIRC what has been reported on
>>Nextdoor, coyotes. Not to mention the raptors.
>
>Well, we do have raptors around here, but mostly they soar high
>over the freeways, waiting for roadkill.
>
>But I did meet one on the street once. Somebody had run over a
>squirrel (what the squirrel was doing on the street rather than
>the overhead wires, I'll never know), and a vulture had landed on
>the street to eat it.

Perhaps it was a ground squirrel.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

In article <aftaggh2prfcbvund04smp6eano72ukpg2@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:01:11 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>In article <sb68ggloqpt66kdpol3p4rjgh0ida3o33c@4ax.com>,
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>We have possums as well as raccoons. Also beavers, but those are
>>>mostly in the parks near water. And, if IIRC what has been reported on
>>>Nextdoor, coyotes. Not to mention the raptors.
>>
>>Well, we do have raptors around here, but mostly they soar high
>>over the freeways, waiting for roadkill.
>>
>>But I did meet one on the street once. Somebody had run over a
>>squirrel (what the squirrel was doing on the street rather than
>>the overhead wires, I'll never know), and a vulture had landed on
>>the street to eat it.
>
>Perhaps it was a ground squirrel.

Can't have been. It was a western fox squirrel with golden-brown
fur (the vulture had not, at that point, tried to consume the
tail).

This article complains that fox squirrels are replacing western
grey squirrels in California.

https://baynature.org/2019/05/28/are-fox-squirrels-replacing-gray-squirrels-in-california/

The middle picture is an example of the golden-brown fox squirrel
such as the vulture was eating.

I can only say that I've lived in California all my life and
never seen a grey squirrel.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>In article <aftaggh2prfcbvund04smp6eano72ukpg2@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:01:11 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>Heydt) wrote:

>This article complains that fox squirrels are replacing western
>grey squirrels in California.
>
>https://baynature.org/2019/05/28/are-fox-squirrels-replacing-gray-squirrels-in-california/
>
>The middle picture is an example of the golden-brown fox squirrel
>such as the vulture was eating.
>
>I can only say that I've lived in California all my life and
>never seen a grey squirrel.

I have, in San Jose, along with black ones and the occasional
red one. I had a mature Great Valley Oak, which attracted
the treerats. And kept the dog running along the fence
the squirrels used as a freeway.

On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 5:08:01 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
> >In article <aftaggh2prfcbvund...@4ax.com>,
> >Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:01:11 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> >>Heydt) wrote:
>
> >This article complains that fox squirrels are replacing western
> >grey squirrels in California.
> >
> >https://baynature.org/2019/05/28/are-fox-squirrels-replacing-gray-squirrels-in-california/
> >
> >The middle picture is an example of the golden-brown fox squirrel
> >such as the vulture was eating.
> >
> >I can only say that I've lived in California all my life and
> >never seen a grey squirrel.
> I have, in San Jose, along with black ones and the occasional
> red one. I had a mature Great Valley Oak, which attracted
> the treerats. And kept the dog running along the fence
> the squirrels used as a freeway.

In the UK, American Grey Squirrels have been pushing out the native Eurasian
Red Squirrel for decades. The red ones are the classic children's story version.

https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woods-and-wildlife/animals/mammals/red-squirrel/

Pt

In article <NYiNI.129126$h8.100934@fx47.iad>,
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>In article <aftaggh2prfcbvund04smp6eano72ukpg2@4ax.com>,
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:01:11 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>This article complains that fox squirrels are replacing western
>>grey squirrels in California.
>>
>>https://baynature.org/2019/05/28/are-fox-squirrels-replacing-gray-squirrels-in-california/
>>
>>The middle picture is an example of the golden-brown fox squirrel
>>such as the vulture was eating.
>>
>>I can only say that I've lived in California all my life and
>>never seen a grey squirrel.
>
>I have, in San Jose, along with black ones and the occasional
>red one. I had a mature Great Valley Oak, which attracted
>the treerats. And kept the dog running along the fence
>the squirrels used as a freeway.

The house south of us has a gigantic, I-don't-know-how-old scrub
oak in its yard. It provides the squirrels and jays lots of
acorns to fight over, and us with some welcome shade.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 21:02:13 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 7/30/2021 5:41 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 09:41:31 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>>> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 16:30:15 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 06:31:46 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>>>>> <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/30/2021 6:20 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>>>>>> On 28/07/2021 23.40, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/28/2021 8:51 PM, Kevrob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have a large bag of bottles and another of cans that I need to take
>>>>>>>>> to the supermarket for redemption. They have machines for the
>>>>>>>>> purpose. I should get a new used vehicle, first. I could take 1 bag
>>>>>>>>> at a time via bus. Maybe when it cools down, some.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We used to have some of those machines around here. The guy who owned
>>>>>>>> them (or whatever) pulled them all because he wasn't making any money
>>>>>>>> off them. (Or not enough money, same thing either way.) Now I have
>>>>>>>> to take them all to the local waste disposal authority's buy back
>>>>>>>> site. Which has been shut down for at least a year now because of COVID.
>>>>>>>> <typing>
>>>>>>>> Bleep! Its permanently closed now! Apparently the space was taken by
>>>>>>>> an upgrade to their sorting capabilities. The nearest facility now is
>>>>>>>> a ten mile drive each way! <censored>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow. You don't have curbside recycling pickup right along with your
>>>>>>> trash pickup? Every trash company that I've had since the mid-1990s
>>>>>>> did both. My current one even has single-stream recycling, so that
>>>>>>> I no longer need to sort into paper, aluminum, glass, ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, there's curbside pickup of recyclables. But there's almost no
>>>>>> Redemption Value buy back sites to get back that $0.05 or $0.10 a bottle
>>>>>> we have to pay for a drink container and the like. The whole point of
>>>>>> which was to give people an incentive to recycle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the local waste authority has been moving AWAY from single stream
>>>>>> for years. We have "Trash" (Landfill), paper, food-grade plastic &
>>>>>> metal (that "food-grade" is very strict) and compost. And woe the
>>>>>> address that doesn't separate correctly in to the different bins!
>>>>> If our Congress was any good they would have the Bureau of Standards
>>>>> come up with a standard recycling stream that includes oily pizza
>>>>> boxes, Styrofoam, plastic bags, and soda straws and start fining
>>>>> recycling companies that can't deal with it.
>>>>
>>>> We burn that. What else would you do with it?
>>>
>>> They need to figure out a way to deal with oily paper instead of just
>>> throwing up their hands and saying "we can't deal with it".
>>>
>>> As for the rest, it's all plastic of one kind or another, melt it down
>>> and use to make other plastic artifacts.
>>
>> Why do you think they haven't tried?

If they have tried they have not tried hard enough. The problem isn't
the chemistry, the problem is mechanical. Bags get tangled in the
machinery, styrofoam bursts into a cloud of pellets, straws just fall
out. That's a company not doing its job, not valiant effort that
failed.
>> "Moreover, there are 2 types of plastics: thermoset vs.
>> thermoplastics. Thermoplastics are plastics that can be
>> re-melted and re-molded into new products, and therefore,
>> recycled. However, thermoset plastics contain polymers that
>> cross-link to form an irreversible chemical bond, meaning
>> that no matter how much heat you apply, they cannot be remelted
>> into new material and hence, non-recyclable."
>>
>> "The same piece of plastic can only be recycled about 2-3
>> times before its quality decreases to the point where
>> it can no longer be used."

Plastic bags are not thermoset and the same technique that created the
long chains in the first place should be able to reestablish them.
>
>> The solution is to not use plastics for single-use purposes.
>>
>If only in practice EVERYTHING wasn't single-use today.

No, the solution is to kick the recycling companies in the butt and
keep kicking them until they're actually doing their job. The town I
inhabit wants us to recycle not because it's good for the planet but
because it's good for the budget. They pay somehing like 1/4 as much
for recycling as they do for disposal. And it seems that they're
getting what they pay for.

On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 02:42:20 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 22:57:01 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 09:41:31 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 16:30:15 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 06:31:46 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>> >> <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On 7/30/2021 6:20 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>> >> >> On 28/07/2021 23.40, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> >> >>> On 7/28/2021 8:51 PM, Kevrob wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I have a large bag of bottles and another of cans that I need to take
>> >> >>>> to the supermarket for redemption. They have machines for the
>> >> >>>> purpose. I should get a new used vehicle, first. I could take 1 bag
>> >> >>>> at a time via bus. Maybe when it cools down, some.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>> We used to have some of those machines around here. The guy who owned
>> >> >>> them (or whatever) pulled them all because he wasn't making any money
>> >> >>> off them. (Or not enough money, same thing either way.) Now I have
>> >> >>> to take them all to the local waste disposal authority's buy back
>> >> >>> site. Which has been shut down for at least a year now because of COVID.
>> >> >>> <typing>
>> >> >>> Bleep! Its permanently closed now! Apparently the space was taken by
>> >> >>> an upgrade to their sorting capabilities. The nearest facility now is
>> >> >>> a ten mile drive each way! <censored>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Wow. You don't have curbside recycling pickup right along with your
>> >> >> trash pickup? Every trash company that I've had since the mid-1990s
>> >> >> did both. My current one even has single-stream recycling, so that
>> >> >> I no longer need to sort into paper, aluminum, glass, ...
>> >> >>
>> >> >Oh, there's curbside pickup of recyclables. But there's almost no
>> >> >Redemption Value buy back sites to get back that $0.05 or $0.10 a bottle
>> >> >we have to pay for a drink container and the like. The whole point of
>> >> >which was to give people an incentive to recycle.
>> >> >
>> >> >And the local waste authority has been moving AWAY from single stream
>> >> >for years. We have "Trash" (Landfill), paper, food-grade plastic &
>> >> >metal (that "food-grade" is very strict) and compost. And woe the
>> >> >address that doesn't separate correctly in to the different bins!
>> >> If our Congress was any good they would have the Bureau of Standards
>> >> come up with a standard recycling stream that includes oily pizza
>> >> boxes, Styrofoam, plastic bags, and soda straws and start fining
>> >> recycling companies that can't deal with it.
>> >
>> >We burn that. What else would you do with it?
>>
>> They need to figure out a way to deal with oily paper instead of just
>> throwing up their hands and saying "we can't deal with it".
>
>Very well: specify.
>
>But food packaging paper doesn't recycle well anyway.

You're phrasing it wrong. Recycling companies do a poor job of
recycling food packaging paper.

>> As for the rest, it's all plastic of one kind or another, melt it down
>> and use to make other plastic artifacts.
>> >Given, for a start, everything in that bin is covered with
>> >oily Styrofoam beads, and trickles of soda.
>>
>> In a properly managed society, IMO, there would be one waste bin all
>> of whose contents get sorted and reused or destroyed as appropriate.
>> Yes, it means the reyclers have to work harder. So why should _they_
>> get an easy ride on the backs of the rest of us?
>
>Turn it around. Why should someone else handle
>your trash responsibly if you don't?

Because I'm paying them to handle the trash, they're not paying me.

>Who is so much
>beneath you that they deserve to do that?

"Beneath"? We're paying trash experts to deal with trash. If they
consider doing the job they are paid for to be "beneath" the people
who are paying them that shows that they have an attitude problem.

>And how
>much are you willing to pay for that work to be done
>on your behalf?

How much is it going to cost?

>The residual waste stream includes human and
>animal excrement, broken glassware (doesn't recycle),
>rotten food, other horrors... would you, personally,
>accept any product that was "recycled" out of that?

Excrement and rotten food should be composted, not wasted. And in
what universe does broken glass not melt as easily as unbroken glass?

And if the recyclers were doing their job properly then I would accept
any product that was recycled out of that.

On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 19:01:11 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <aftaggh2prfcbvund04smp6eano72ukpg2@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:01:11 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <sb68ggloqpt66kdpol3p4rjgh0ida3o33c@4ax.com>,
>>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>We have possums as well as raccoons. Also beavers, but those are
>>>>mostly in the parks near water. And, if IIRC what has been reported on
>>>>Nextdoor, coyotes. Not to mention the raptors.
>>>
>>>Well, we do have raptors around here, but mostly they soar high
>>>over the freeways, waiting for roadkill.
>>>
>>>But I did meet one on the street once. Somebody had run over a
>>>squirrel (what the squirrel was doing on the street rather than
>>>the overhead wires, I'll never know), and a vulture had landed on
>>>the street to eat it.
>>
>>Perhaps it was a ground squirrel.
>
>Can't have been. It was a western fox squirrel with golden-brown
>fur (the vulture had not, at that point, tried to consume the
>tail).
>
>This article complains that fox squirrels are replacing western
>grey squirrels in California.
>
>https://baynature.org/2019/05/28/are-fox-squirrels-replacing-gray-squirrels-in-california/
>
>The middle picture is an example of the golden-brown fox squirrel
>such as the vulture was eating.
>
>I can only say that I've lived in California all my life and
>never seen a grey squirrel.

In Florida I saw a fox squirrel once, one of the neighbors had one in
a cage for some reason.

In CT I'm seeing the black squirrels with increasing frequency. Given
that they are moving down from Canada I'm having trouble pinning that
one on "global warming".

On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 15:52:31 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 5:08:01 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>> >In article <aftaggh2prfcbvund...@4ax.com>,
>> >Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >>On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:01:11 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>> >>Heydt) wrote:
>>
>> >This article complains that fox squirrels are replacing western
>> >grey squirrels in California.
>> >
>> >https://baynature.org/2019/05/28/are-fox-squirrels-replacing-gray-squirrels-in-california/
>> >
>> >The middle picture is an example of the golden-brown fox squirrel
>> >such as the vulture was eating.
>> >
>> >I can only say that I've lived in California all my life and
>> >never seen a grey squirrel.
>> I have, in San Jose, along with black ones and the occasional
>> red one. I had a mature Great Valley Oak, which attracted
>> the treerats. And kept the dog running along the fence
>> the squirrels used as a freeway.
>
>In the UK, American Grey Squirrels have been pushing out the native Eurasian
>Red Squirrel for decades. The red ones are the classic children's story version.
>
>https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woods-and-wildlife/animals/mammals/red-squirrel/

Which leads me to wonder what manner of squirrel Hammy might be.

On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 9:20:03 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <NYiNI.129126$h8.1...@fx47.iad>,
> Scott Lurndal <sl...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
> >>In article <aftaggh2prfcbvund...@4ax.com>,
> >>Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>>On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:01:11 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> >>>Heydt) wrote:
> >
> >>This article complains that fox squirrels are replacing western
> >>grey squirrels in California.
> >>
> >>https://baynature.org/2019/05/28/are-fox-squirrels-replacing-gray-squirrels-in-california/
> >>
> >>The middle picture is an example of the golden-brown fox squirrel
> >>such as the vulture was eating.
> >>
> >>I can only say that I've lived in California all my life and
> >>never seen a grey squirrel.
> >
> >I have, in San Jose, along with black ones and the occasional
> >red one. I had a mature Great Valley Oak, which attracted
> >the treerats. And kept the dog running along the fence
> >the squirrels used as a freeway.
> The house south of us has a gigantic, I-don't-know-how-old scrub
> oak in its yard. It provides the squirrels and jays lots of
> acorns to fight over, and us with some welcome shade.
> --

Since, when we aren't having pandemics, I visit my sisters on
Roosevelt Island, in the East River between Manhattan and
Queens, which is one of the two New York boroughs on Long
Island. Hence, I am familiar with the Mutant Squirrels of Gotham.

https://untappedcities.com/2016/12/12/the-top-10-secrets-of-city-hall-park-in-nyc/6/

The link says the black tree rats get that way from a recessive gene.

--
Kevin R

On Saturday, 31 July 2021 at 17:11:14 UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:01:11 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> Heydt) wrote:
>
> >In article <sb68ggloqpt66kdpo...@4ax.com>,
> >Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>We have possums as well as raccoons. Also beavers, but those are
> >>mostly in the parks near water. And, if IIRC what has been reported on
> >>Nextdoor, coyotes. Not to mention the raptors.
> >
> >Well, we do have raptors around here, but mostly they soar high
> >over the freeways, waiting for roadkill.
> >
> >But I did meet one on the street once. Somebody had run over a
> >squirrel (what the squirrel was doing on the street rather than
> >the overhead wires, I'll never know), and a vulture had landed on
> >the street to eat it.
>
> Perhaps it was a ground squirrel.

No, just squashed.

Oh, that's a thing? Okay.

On Sunday, 1 August 2021 at 03:50:30 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 02:42:20 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 22:57:01 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 09:41:31 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> >> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 16:30:15 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> >> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 06:31:46 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
> >> >> <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On 7/30/2021 6:20 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> >> >> >> On 28/07/2021 23.40, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> >> >> >>> On 7/28/2021 8:51 PM, Kevrob wrote:
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> I have a large bag of bottles and another of cans that I need to take
> >> >> >>>> to the supermarket for redemption. They have machines for the
> >> >> >>>> purpose. I should get a new used vehicle, first. I could take 1 bag
> >> >> >>>> at a time via bus. Maybe when it cools down, some.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>> We used to have some of those machines around here. The guy who owned
> >> >> >>> them (or whatever) pulled them all because he wasn't making any money
> >> >> >>> off them. (Or not enough money, same thing either way.) Now I have
> >> >> >>> to take them all to the local waste disposal authority's buy back
> >> >> >>> site. Which has been shut down for at least a year now because of COVID.
> >> >> >>> <typing>
> >> >> >>> Bleep! Its permanently closed now! Apparently the space was taken by
> >> >> >>> an upgrade to their sorting capabilities. The nearest facility now is
> >> >> >>> a ten mile drive each way! <censored>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Wow. You don't have curbside recycling pickup right along with your
> >> >> >> trash pickup? Every trash company that I've had since the mid-1990s
> >> >> >> did both. My current one even has single-stream recycling, so that
> >> >> >> I no longer need to sort into paper, aluminum, glass, ...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >Oh, there's curbside pickup of recyclables. But there's almost no
> >> >> >Redemption Value buy back sites to get back that $0.05 or $0.10 a bottle
> >> >> >we have to pay for a drink container and the like. The whole point of
> >> >> >which was to give people an incentive to recycle.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >And the local waste authority has been moving AWAY from single stream
> >> >> >for years. We have "Trash" (Landfill), paper, food-grade plastic &
> >> >> >metal (that "food-grade" is very strict) and compost. And woe the
> >> >> >address that doesn't separate correctly in to the different bins!
> >> >> If our Congress was any good they would have the Bureau of Standards
> >> >> come up with a standard recycling stream that includes oily pizza
> >> >> boxes, Styrofoam, plastic bags, and soda straws and start fining
> >> >> recycling companies that can't deal with it.
> >> >
> >> >We burn that. What else would you do with it?
> >>
> >> They need to figure out a way to deal with oily paper instead of just
> >> throwing up their hands and saying "we can't deal with it".
> >
> >Very well: specify.
> >
> >But food packaging paper doesn't recycle well anyway.
>
> You're phrasing it wrong. Recycling companies do a poor job of
> recycling food packaging paper.

You do not know a better way. The correct way is
to use it as fuel.

> >> As for the rest, it's all plastic of one kind or another, melt it down
> >> and use to make other plastic artifacts.
> >> >Given, for a start, everything in that bin is covered with
> >> >oily Styrofoam beads, and trickles of soda.
> >>
> >> In a properly managed society, IMO, there would be one waste bin all
> >> of whose contents get sorted and reused or destroyed as appropriate.
> >> Yes, it means the reyclers have to work harder. So why should _they_
> >> get an easy ride on the backs of the rest of us?
> >
> >Turn it around. Why should someone else handle
> >your trash responsibly if you don't?
>
> Because I'm paying them to handle the trash, they're not paying me.
>
> >Who is so much
> >beneath you that they deserve to do that?
>
> "Beneath"? We're paying trash experts to deal with trash. If they
> consider doing the job they are paid for to be "beneath" the people
> who are paying them that shows that they have an attitude problem.
>
> >And how
> >much are you willing to pay for that work to be done
> >on your behalf?
>
> How much is it going to cost?

Oh, well... How much will it cost to have someone stay
in your house to receive your trash items and handle
them for individual recycling? Because that's what
needs to be done. Maybe have them cook and clean
and bathe you, too.

And as for respecting them?

In practice, your recyclables tend to be picked through
!by hand by prisoners, or workfarers, or the destitute,
or foreigners, or destitute foreigners.

If you're offered bottled water by a hawker at an
Indian train station, rest assured that they extracted
that bottle from the heaps of exported American waste,
and peed in it.

> >The residual waste stream includes human and
> >animal excrement, broken glassware (doesn't recycle),
> >rotten food, other horrors... would you, personally,
> >accept any product that was "recycled" out of that?
>
> Excrement and rotten food should be composted, not wasted. And in
> what universe does broken glass not melt as easily as unbroken glass?
>
> And if the recyclers were doing their job properly then I would accept
> any product that was recycled out of that.

You don't mind the little bits of glass then...
And glass tableware is made with different formulas
from food retail bottles and jars. Only the food storage
glass is suitable for recycling. Indeed, there is glass
ovenware; good luck "melting" that.