When I returned _Penric's Progress_ to the library, I checked for
other Bujold. The computer turned up:

books I'd already read,

e-books (I can download a file all by *myself*, thank you very much),

audiobooks (I tried an audiobook novel once, and I'm eternally
grateful that I could go back and get the print version),

e-audiobooks, and

_Federations: Vast, Epic, Interstellar_.

I figured that if John Joseph Adams had chosen "Aftermaths", he must
have pretty good taste, so I took Federations.

At home, I sat down to read: the first story is an Orson Scott Card.
My first impulse was to skip it, but I gave it a chance and found that
it didn't have the usual OSC tics and tricks -- or maybe it's just
that it's been twenty or thirty years since I last read a Card and
didn't recognize them. "Mazer in Prison" is silly, but the silly is
sufficiently consistent and coherent that it was easy to take it
seriously for twenty-four pages.

My spouse, having run out of fiction, picked it up, found "Mazer"
unbearably boring, and skipped on to "Carthago Delenda Est". His
bookmark is three pages from the end, so I assume he hasn't formed an
opinion yet.

I just re-read the first paragraph of "Carthago", and hey! Now it
makes sense!

(I shall plow full speed ahead and damn the spoilers.)

"Carthago" is more of a puzzle than a story: you are supposed to
figure out what the situation is. Once figured out, it doesn't make a
lot of sense. Carthage is in our Oort cloud, and all the planets come
to us?

Or maybe they are all in our solar system, but there do seem to be
rather a lot of them, all at about the same stage of development. I
suppose a second reading might straighten it out, but once through
satisfies me.

The "planets" have been suckered into a four-hundred-year-truce -- the
message, to be so convincing, must have come from a god-like being --
and to keep the truce going, all these ambassadors are floating around
waiting for Godot. The ambassador cared for by the viewpoint
character is regularly "expired" and replaced by a clone. All the
other ambassadors come to a funeral party when an ambassador is
incinerated.

Another "planet" sent a generation ship with a disposable younger son
from the royal family; the story wasn't long enough to mention where
the royal ambassadors got royal wives.

Next story: "Life Suspension", L.E. Modesitt Jr. Spouse's bookmark
is well into this story; I haven't asked his opinion of "Carthago".

(The review took a while to write; Real Life (TM) etc.)

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:28:04 -0400, Joy Beeson wrote:

> Another "planet" sent a generation ship with a disposable younger son
> from the royal family; the story wasn't long enough to mention where the
> royal ambassadors got royal wives.

This friendly sidelines observer wonders if the SF community is
generally, by default, monarchist.

On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 3:58:01 AM UTC-4, Charles Packer wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:28:04 -0400, Joy Beeson wrote:
>
> > Another "planet" sent a generation ship with a disposable younger son
> > from the royal family; the story wasn't long enough to mention where the
> > royal ambassadors got royal wives.
> This friendly sidelines observer wonders if the SF community is
> generally, by default, monarchist.

The community isn't, afaik, but writers like simple governments. Democracies
are messy, and slow the plot.

Pt

In article <0802a335-891c-4695-b48f-66465ec07eacn@googlegroups.com>,
"pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 3:58:01 AM UTC-4, Charles Packer wrote:
> > On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:28:04 -0400, Joy Beeson wrote:
> >
> > > Another "planet" sent a generation ship with a disposable younger son
> > > from the royal family; the story wasn't long enough to mention where the
> > > royal ambassadors got royal wives.
> > This friendly sidelines observer wonders if the SF community is
> > generally, by default, monarchist.
>
> The community isn't, afaik, but writers like simple governments. Democracies
> are messy, and slow the plot.
>

Also, a large number of stories are focused on the military, business
enterprises, and other organizations with one boss and any number of
subordinates.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

In article <0802a335-891c-4695-b48f-66465ec07eacn@googlegroups.com>,
pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 3:58:01 AM UTC-4, Charles Packer wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:28:04 -0400, Joy Beeson wrote:
>>
>> > Another "planet" sent a generation ship with a disposable younger son
>> > from the royal family; the story wasn't long enough to mention where the
>> > royal ambassadors got royal wives.
>> This friendly sidelines observer wonders if the SF community is
>> generally, by default, monarchist.
>
>The community isn't, afaik, but writers like simple governments. Democracies
>are messy, and slow the plot.

Which, sometimes, is what the writer wants to achieve. Short
novels don't sell any more.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:28:04 -0400, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

[snip]

> I figured that if John Joseph Adams had chosen "Aftermaths", he must
> have pretty good taste, so I took Federations.

[snip]

> Next story: "Life Suspension", L.E. Modesitt Jr.

I suspect that this story would have been much better if I had been
familiar with the myth that it is based on. Adequate for those who
have never heard of the Snow Queen.

"Terra-Exulta", S.L. Gilbow

A light-hearted and amusing take on an extremly-nasty situation, told
in first person by the nastiest perpetrator.

"Aftermaths", Lois McMaster Bujold

Exactly as good as I remembered it.

Next up: "Someone is Stealing the great Throne Rooms of the Galaxy",
Harry Turtldove

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

I made a point of asking Spouse. He liked Aftermaths.

On Thu, 05 Aug 2021 22:07:26 -0400, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

>
> Next up: "Someone is Stealing the great Throne Rooms of the Galaxy",
> Harry Turtldove

Friday, August 7, 2021

After digging and hauling my daily wheelbarrow of compost dirt, I
grabbed _Federations_ and a glass of tangerine seltzer, and sat down
on the porch to recover.

"Someone is Stealing the great Throne Rooms of the Galaxy" was
unrelentingly humorous.

Those who like this sort of thing will like it very much.

Next up: <strike> a bike ride to Sweet Dreams because I don't feel
like cooking</strike> "Prisons", Kevin J. Anderson and Doug Beason

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Saturday, August 7, 2021 at 3:14:20 PM UTC-5, Joy Beeson wrote:
> I made a point of asking Spouse. He liked Aftermaths.
> On Thu, 05 Aug 2021 22:07:26 -0400, Joy Beeson
> <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
> >
> > Next up: "Someone is Stealing the great Throne Rooms of the Galaxy",
> > Harry Turtldove
> Friday, August 7, 2021
>
> After digging and hauling my daily wheelbarrow of compost dirt, I
> grabbed _Federations_ and a glass of tangerine seltzer, and sat down
> on the porch to recover.
>
> "Someone is Stealing the great Throne Rooms of the Galaxy" was
> unrelentingly humorous.
>
> Those who like this sort of thing will like it very much.

Is this a reference to Wilmar Shiras's story _In Hiding_ ?

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 15:17:28 -0700 (PDT), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
<peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Those who like this sort of thing will like it very much.
>
> Is this a reference to Wilmar Shiras's story _In Hiding_ ?

After a brief search of the web, I do remember reading Children of the
Atom, and the scene you refer to, but I was referring to a zillion
other reviews.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

In article <9471bc46-2739-4e8b-8971-d29b422fdf28n@googlegroups.com>,
peterwezeman@hotmail.com <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, August 7, 2021 at 3:14:20 PM UTC-5, Joy Beeson wrote:
>> I made a point of asking Spouse. He liked Aftermaths.
>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2021 22:07:26 -0400, Joy Beeson
>> <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Next up: "Someone is Stealing the great Throne Rooms of the Galaxy",
>> > Harry Turtldove
>> Friday, August 7, 2021
>>
>> After digging and hauling my daily wheelbarrow of compost dirt, I
>> grabbed _Federations_ and a glass of tangerine seltzer, and sat down
>> on the porch to recover.
>>
>> "Someone is Stealing the great Throne Rooms of the Galaxy" was
>> unrelentingly humorous.
>>
>> Those who like this sort of thing will like it very much.
>
>Is this a reference to Wilmar Shiras's story _In Hiding_ ?

If it is, I don't see it. Explain, please?

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <9vp0hg1dphaq88ksb1os4vrq76hn6vdm3p@4ax.com>,
Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 15:17:28 -0700 (PDT), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
><peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Those who like this sort of thing will like it very much.
>>
>> Is this a reference to Wilmar Shiras's story _In Hiding_ ?
>
>After a brief search of the web, I do remember reading Children of the
>Atom, and the scene you refer to, but I was referring to a zillion
>other reviews.
>
I still don't; would someone please remind me?

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 23:36:21 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

> >Is this a reference to Wilmar Shiras's story _In Hiding_ ?
>
> If it is, I don't see it. Explain, please?

The boy was unhappy with Alice in Wonderland because the chess game
didn't make any sense, and wrote a story strictly reflecting the moves
of a real chess game, with characters and motivations and all the
stuff that makes a good story. The story didn't sell because the
intersection of chess players and fantasy readers is too small, and he
commented that that was a pity because those who did like it would
like it very much.

I found a copy of "In Hiding" on the Web, and read it when I should
have been doing something else.

And in response to one review I read, *every* story is allowed one
ridiculous assumption, provided that you use it to (for example) kick
the serf off the farm and start him on adventures (the intro to a
historical novel that I read many decades ago) and don't drag it in as
a deus ex machina at the end.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On 2021 Aug 09, Joy Beeson wrote
(in article<fbd1hgtb2m7valuvp4cqvp71fmurlva2qs@4ax.com>):

> On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 23:36:21 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> wrote:
>
> > > Is this a reference to Wilmar Shiras's story _In Hiding_ ?
> >
> > If it is, I don't see it. Explain, please?
>
> The boy was unhappy with Alice in Wonderland because the chess game
> didn't make any sense, and wrote a story strictly reflecting the moves
> of a real chess game, with characters and motivations and all the
> stuff that makes a good story. The story didn't sell because the
> intersection of chess players and fantasy readers is too small, and he
> commented that that was a pity because those who did like it would
> like it very much.
>
> I found a copy of "In Hiding" on the Web, and read it when I should
> have been doing something else.
>
> And in response to one review I read, *every* story is allowed one
> ridiculous assumption, provided that you use it to (for example) kick
> the serf off the farm and start him on adventures (the intro to a
> historical novel that I read many decades ago)

Frank Yerby did that in The Saracen Blade. Our hero, whose name I forget
because its’s been a while since I read the book, and his new bride decamp
at max rate knots because the local lord wanted to exercise the droit du
seigneur, and they got warned by a priest who did NOT think that this was a
good idea. Our hero ends up quite prominent in assorted crusades and local
wars in Italy. Harry Turtledove did that, decades later, in The Tale of
Krispos sub-group of the Videssos books. Krispos is taxed off his farm... and
ends up as Emperor.
> and don't drag it in as
> a deus ex machina at the end.

oh, Turtledove in particular brought in a large variety of those... but
that’s because Videssos had working magic, and a God in whose name priests
could do all kinds of things, mostly of the ‘move the plot along’
variety.

Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 23:36:21 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> wrote:
> > >Is this a reference to Wilmar Shiras's story _In Hiding_ ?
> >
> > If it is, I don't see it. Explain, please?
> The boy was unhappy with Alice in Wonderland because the chess game
> didn't make any sense, and wrote a story strictly reflecting the moves
> of a real chess game, with characters and motivations and all the
> stuff that makes a good story. The story didn't sell because the
> intersection of chess players and fantasy readers is too small, and he
> commented that that was a pity because those who did like it would
> like it very much.

OK, I've seen reviews along the lines of "If you like this sort of thing, this is the sort of thing you'll like," where it seems like cynical dismissal, or at best not understanding the popularity of a thing. This formulation gives it a more positive spin.

(Any body else find a bit of hopefulness in the saying, "Home is the place where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."?)

--
-Jack

In article <fbd1hgtb2m7valuvp4cqvp71fmurlva2qs@4ax.com>,
Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 23:36:21 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>wrote:
>
>> >Is this a reference to Wilmar Shiras's story _In Hiding_ ?
>>
>> If it is, I don't see it. Explain, please?
>
>The boy was unhappy with Alice in Wonderland because the chess game
>didn't make any sense, and wrote a story strictly reflecting the moves
>of a real chess game, with characters and motivations and all the
>stuff that makes a good story. The story didn't sell because the
>intersection of chess players and fantasy readers is too small, and he
>commented that that was a pity because those who did like it would
>like it very much.

Now I remember. "Chess players don't like fantasy, and nobody
else likes chess."
>
>I found a copy of "In Hiding" on the Web, and read it when I should
>have been doing something else.

Well, I have the entire _CotA_ in the fiction room, but cats....
>
>And in response to one review I read, *every* story is allowed one
>ridiculous assumption, provided that you use it to (for example) kick
>the serf off the farm and start him on adventures...

Yup, that's fairly ridiculous: serfs were _adscripti glebae_,
bound to the land. Unless you mean the *author* kicked the serf
off the land by having him run away. That happened from time to
time; if he could get away to a free city and stay there for a
year (maybe it was a year and a day), he'd be a free man and no
one could drag him back.

(the intro to a
>historical novel that I read many decades ago) and don't drag it in as
>a deus ex machina at the end.

Thanks!

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <e2565111-c2e5-4796-8d3d-fd9e83a77e6en@googlegroups.com>,
Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>Joy Beeson wrote:
>> On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 23:36:21 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> wrote:
>> > >Is this a reference to Wilmar Shiras's story _In Hiding_ ?
>> >
>> > If it is, I don't see it. Explain, please?
>> The boy was unhappy with Alice in Wonderland because the chess game
>> didn't make any sense, and wrote a story strictly reflecting the moves
>> of a real chess game, with characters and motivations and all the
>> stuff that makes a good story. The story didn't sell because the
>> intersection of chess players and fantasy readers is too small, and he
>> commented that that was a pity because those who did like it would
>> like it very much.
>
>OK, I've seen reviews along the lines of "If you like this sort of
>thing, this is the sort of thing you'll like," where it seems like
>cynical dismissal, or at best not understanding the popularity of a
>thing. This formulation gives it a more positive spin.
>
>(Any body else find a bit of hopefulness in the saying, "Home is the
>place where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."?)
>
"I should have called it
Something you somehow haven't to deserve."

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <fbd1hgtb2m7valuvp4cqvp71fmurlva2qs@4ax.com>,
Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

> On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 23:36:21 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> wrote:
>
> > >Is this a reference to Wilmar Shiras's story _In Hiding_ ?
> >
> > If it is, I don't see it. Explain, please?
>
> The boy was unhappy with Alice in Wonderland because the chess game
> didn't make any sense, and wrote a story strictly reflecting the moves
> of a real chess game, with characters and motivations and all the
> stuff that makes a good story. The story didn't sell because the
> intersection of chess players and fantasy readers is too small, and he
> commented that that was a pity because those who did like it would
> like it very much.

The chess game was in _Alice through the Looking Glass_. Several years
after "In Hiding" was published, Poul Anderson wrote "The Immortal Game"
which was a chess game (c. 1850, IIRC) translated into a fantasy short
story. BTW, Anthony Boucher's forward to this story's publication in
FA&SF (Feb 1954 issue) quotes Timothy's complaint in "In Hiding".

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
> In article <fbd1hgtb2m7valuvp4cqvp71fmurlva2qs@4ax.com>,
> Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 23:36:21 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> wrote:
>>
>> > >Is this a reference to Wilmar Shiras's story _In Hiding_ ?
>> >
>> > If it is, I don't see it. Explain, please?
>>
>> The boy was unhappy with Alice in Wonderland because the chess game
>> didn't make any sense, and wrote a story strictly reflecting the moves
>> of a real chess game, with characters and motivations and all the
>> stuff that makes a good story. The story didn't sell because the
>> intersection of chess players and fantasy readers is too small, and he
>> commented that that was a pity because those who did like it would
>> like it very much.
>
> The chess game was in _Alice through the Looking Glass_. Several years
> after "In Hiding" was published, Poul Anderson wrote "The Immortal Game"
> which was a chess game (c. 1850, IIRC) translated into a fantasy short
> story. BTW, Anthony Boucher's forward to this story's publication in
> FA&SF (Feb 1954 issue) quotes Timothy's complaint in "In Hiding".
>
Dodgson wrote:

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/26946/the-chess-game-in-through-the-looking-glass

"As the chess problem.. . has puzzled some of my readers, it may be
well to explain that it is very worked out, so far as the moves are
concerned. The alternation of Red and White is perhaps not so strictly
observed as it might be, and the 'castling' of the three Queens is
merely a way of saying that they entered the palace; but the 'check'
of the White King at move 6, the capture of the Red Knight at move 7,
and the final 'checkmate' of the Red King, will be found, by any one who
will take the trouble to set the pieces and play the moves as directed,
to be strictly in accordance with the laws of the game."

Usually Fairy Chess has different pieces or boards, but I think different
numbers of moves is quite in the spirit.

On Monday, August 9, 2021 at 10:56:02 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <fbd1hgtb2m7valuvp...@4ax.com>,
> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> >On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 23:36:21 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> >wrote:
> >
> >> >Is this a reference to Wilmar Shiras's story _In Hiding_ ?
> >>
> >> If it is, I don't see it. Explain, please?
> >
> >The boy was unhappy with Alice in Wonderland because the chess game
> >didn't make any sense, and wrote a story strictly reflecting the moves
> >of a real chess game, with characters and motivations and all the
> >stuff that makes a good story. The story didn't sell because the
> >intersection of chess players and fantasy readers is too small, and he
> >commented that that was a pity because those who did like it would
> >like it very much.
> Now I remember. "Chess players don't like fantasy,

Judging by the books I used to see people reading at chess tournaments,
this is untrue. Judging by the fairly large number of chess players I know
personally, very untrue.

Good SF stories including a fair amount of chess include "The Chess players" by Harness,
the aforementioned Leiber stories, and "The Squares of the City" by Brunner.

When Asimov needed a chess game to show how much more intelligent Schwarz has
become in "Pebble in the Sky", he used a real game which was good enough to be included
in several chess books.

A chess master once wrote a story "Fischer vs Godzilla" but the less said of that the better.
De gustibus disputandum existit (with apologies to my high school Latin teacher).

and nobody
> else likes chess."

More or less by definition.

William Hyde

In article <dc1226ec-82f8-4df3-a294-e0c7d35d3558n@googlegroups.com>,
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, August 9, 2021 at 10:56:02 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <fbd1hgtb2m7valuvp...@4ax.com>,
>> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>> >On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 23:36:21 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> >Is this a reference to Wilmar Shiras's story _In Hiding_ ?
>> >>
>> >> If it is, I don't see it. Explain, please?
>> >
>> >The boy was unhappy with Alice in Wonderland because the chess game
>> >didn't make any sense, and wrote a story strictly reflecting the moves
>> >of a real chess game, with characters and motivations and all the
>> >stuff that makes a good story. The story didn't sell because the
>> >intersection of chess players and fantasy readers is too small, and he
>> >commented that that was a pity because those who did like it would
>> >like it very much.
>> Now I remember. "Chess players don't like fantasy,
>
>Judging by the books I used to see people reading at chess tournaments,
>this is untrue. Judging by the fairly large number of chess players I know
>personally, very untrue.
>
>Good SF stories including a fair amount of chess include "The Chess
>players" by Harness,
>the aforementioned Leiber stories, and "The Squares of the City" by Brunner.
>
>When Asimov needed a chess game to show how much more intelligent Schwarz has
>become in "Pebble in the Sky", he used a real game which was good enough
>to be included
>in several chess books.
>
>A chess master once wrote a story "Fischer vs Godzilla" but the less
>said of that the better.
>De gustibus disputandum existit (with apologies to my high school Latin
>teacher).

Actually, _erat_ would do better. That's the imperfect of
_esse_. And don't you want to say _non erat_?

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Monday, August 9, 2021 at 10:21:16 AM UTC-4, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> Joy Beeson wrote:
> > On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 23:36:21 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> > wrote:
> > > >Is this a reference to Wilmar Shiras's story _In Hiding_ ?
> > >
> > > If it is, I don't see it. Explain, please?
> > The boy was unhappy with Alice in Wonderland because the chess game
> > didn't make any sense, and wrote a story strictly reflecting the moves
> > of a real chess game, with characters and motivations and all the
> > stuff that makes a good story. The story didn't sell because the
> > intersection of chess players and fantasy readers is too small, and he
> > commented that that was a pity because those who did like it would
> > like it very much.
> OK, I've seen reviews along the lines of "If you like this sort of thing, this is the sort of thing you'll like," where it seems like cynical dismissal, or at best not understanding the popularity of a thing. This formulation gives it a more positive spin.
>
> (Any body else find a bit of hopefulness in the saying,
> "Home is the place where, when you have to go there,
> they have to let you in."?)
>
> --

"....take you in." IMS

There were times in my life where a friend or relative
taking me in kept me from sleeping rough.

Sister Evelyn had us read that as high school sophomores -

"The Death of the Hired Man" by Robert Frost

[quote]

He hates to see a boy the fool of books.

[/quote]

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44261/the-death-of-the-hired-man

We used to count the number of times in a class Sr said "uh."
1,2,3,4 strike-through makes 5, like a cartoon prisoner's cell wall.
The page would fill!

--
Kevin R

Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> schrieb:

> And in response to one review I read, *every* story is allowed one
> ridiculous assumption, provided that you use it to (for example) kick
> the serf off the farm and start him on adventures (the intro to a
> historical novel that I read many decades ago) and don't drag it in as
> a deus ex machina at the end.

This pretty much describes "The Martian" - that storm wreaking that
much havoc is indeed ridiculous (as the author admitted).

On Wednesday, August 11, 2021 at 1:15:57 PM UTC-4, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> schrieb:
> > And in response to one review I read, *every* story is allowed one
> > ridiculous assumption, provided that you use it to (for example) kick
> > the serf off the farm and start him on adventures (the intro to a
> > historical novel that I read many decades ago) and don't drag it in as
> > a deus ex machina at the end.
> This pretty much describes "The Martian" - that storm wreaking that
> much havoc is indeed ridiculous (as the author admitted).

There were other places where he fudged the numbers - his PV cells
would not have sufficient power to light his potato garden, for a start.

pt

On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 7:40:03 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <dc1226ec-82f8-4df3...@googlegroups.com>,
> William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, August 9, 2021 at 10:56:02 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <fbd1hgtb2m7valuvp...@4ax.com>,
> >> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> >> >On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 23:36:21 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> >> >wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> >Is this a reference to Wilmar Shiras's story _In Hiding_ ?
> >> >>
> >> >> If it is, I don't see it. Explain, please?
> >> >
> >> >The boy was unhappy with Alice in Wonderland because the chess game
> >> >didn't make any sense, and wrote a story strictly reflecting the moves
> >> >of a real chess game, with characters and motivations and all the
> >> >stuff that makes a good story. The story didn't sell because the
> >> >intersection of chess players and fantasy readers is too small, and he
> >> >commented that that was a pity because those who did like it would
> >> >like it very much.
> >> Now I remember. "Chess players don't like fantasy,
> >
> >Judging by the books I used to see people reading at chess tournaments,
> >this is untrue. Judging by the fairly large number of chess players I know
> >personally, very untrue.
> >
> >Good SF stories including a fair amount of chess include "The Chess
> >players" by Harness,
> >the aforementioned Leiber stories, and "The Squares of the City" by Brunner.
> >
> >When Asimov needed a chess game to show how much more intelligent Schwarz has
> >become in "Pebble in the Sky", he used a real game which was good enough
> >to be included
> >in several chess books.
> >
> >A chess master once wrote a story "Fischer vs Godzilla" but the less
> >said of that the better.
> >De gustibus disputandum existit (with apologies to my high school Latin
> >teacher).
> Actually, _erat_ would do better. That's the imperfect of
> _esse_. And don't you want to say _non erat_?

It was so terrible an excuse for a story that in my view there is no question of taste. It was just
crap and should never have seen publication. The writer was stoned for much of that decade, certainly when he wrote the story.

I want to say that it is possible to dispute taste. As for myself, little Latin, less Greek (and the wrong
kind of Greek, too).

William Hyde

On 12/08/21 4:40 am, Kevrob wrote:
> On Monday, August 9, 2021 at 10:21:16 AM UTC-4, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
snip
>>
>> (Any body else find a bit of hopefulness in the saying,
>> "Home is the place where, when you have to go there,
>> they have to let you in."?)
>>
>> --
>
> "....take you in." IMS
>

Since the onslaught of Covid-19, I have learnt that New Zealanders
living overseas have the right to be let in and those that have done so
were also taken in, in the sense they were given generous government
benefits for living expenses which would cease with employment.