On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 12:55:44 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
[snip-snip]
> Interestingly, in the actual sequel, /The Bloody Red Baron/, I found
> the references less enjoyable.
>
> There was a third novel but, when I looked for it, I couldn't find it. [snip]

And a fourth one. And a fifth one. And a sixth one --
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?192

On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 12:57:03 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
<ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 12:55:44 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>[snip-snip]
>> Interestingly, in the actual sequel, /The Bloody Red Baron/, I found
>> the references less enjoyable.
>>
>> There was a third novel but, when I looked for it, I couldn't find it. [snip]
>
>And a fourth one. And a fifth one. And a sixth one --
>http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?192

Interesting. /Dracula Cha Cha Cha/ was the one I was looking for.

IIRC, such reviews as I could find were not very ... encouraging.

I added Kim Newman to my books wanted list, but, since I am currently
working my way through Chandler and am proceding alphabetically, it
may be a while before I try again. I saved the link above, though.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote in
news:a099de85-ef48-4142-97f5-693182924000n@googlegroups.com:

> They say the seventh wave is the largest.
>
> The waves before it:
>
> Gernsback invented the genre as a genre.

> Campbell demanded better writing

> The '50s brought [...] more than the one man's view of the field.
>
> Then The New Wave

So we're up to 4.

> Then?

Um, fantasy. Duh.

But what's #6? Paranormal romance? That's certainly the largest
so far.

Even if we accept that, #7 is overdue. Yes, we are now farther from
the New Wave than it was from Gernsback, time-wise.

Joe Bernstein

--
Joe Bernstein, still unemployed but not currently homeless
<Kdeurama@gmail.com>

On 2021-07-31, Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:a099de85-ef48-4142-97f5-693182924000n@googlegroups.com:
>
>> They say the seventh wave is the largest.
>>
>> The waves before it:
>>
>> Gernsback invented the genre as a genre.
>
>> Campbell demanded better writing
>
>> The '50s brought [...] more than the one man's view of the field.
>>
>> Then The New Wave
>
> So we're up to 4.
>
>> Then?
>
> Um, fantasy. Duh.
>
> But what's #6? Paranormal romance? That's certainly the largest
> so far.
>
> Even if we accept that, #7 is overdue. Yes, we are now farther from
> the New Wave than it was from Gernsback, time-wise.
>
> Joe Bernstein

Welcome back, Joe. It's great to hear from you again - this is the
first that I've seen from you since the pandemic got well underway!
You were missed here and folks have been concerned.

I'm not sure what to call it, (perhaps e-wave?) but the easy access to
self-publishing of e-books has certainly brought an entire new
authorship and audience to sf. It's much more akin to the pulp fiction
era; comparatively low quality, action oriented fiction. It perhaps
includes light novels and webnovels.

Chris

On 7/30/2021 10:26 PM, Chris Buckley wrote:
> On 2021-07-31, Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:a099de85-ef48-4142-97f5-693182924000n@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> They say the seventh wave is the largest.
>>>
>>> The waves before it:
>>>
>>> Gernsback invented the genre as a genre.
>>
>>> Campbell demanded better writing
>>
>>> The '50s brought [...] more than the one man's view of the field.
>>>
>>> Then The New Wave
>>
>> So we're up to 4.
>>
>>> Then?
>>
>> Um, fantasy. Duh.
>>
>> But what's #6? Paranormal romance? That's certainly the largest
>> so far.
>>
>> Even if we accept that, #7 is overdue. Yes, we are now farther from
>> the New Wave than it was from Gernsback, time-wise.
>>
>> Joe Bernstein
>
> Welcome back, Joe. It's great to hear from you again - this is the
> first that I've seen from you since the pandemic got well underway!
> You were missed here and folks have been concerned.
>
> I'm not sure what to call it, (perhaps e-wave?) but the easy access to
> self-publishing of e-books has certainly brought an entire new
> authorship and audience to sf. It's much more akin to the pulp fiction
> era; comparatively low quality, action oriented fiction. It perhaps
> includes light novels and webnovels.
>
> Chris

First we had the Pulp Era. Then we had the Golden Era. Now we have the
Dreck Era.

And I like it.

Lynn

On 30/07/2021 21.31, Joe Bernstein wrote:
> Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:a099de85-ef48-4142-97f5-693182924000n@googlegroups.com:
>
>> They say the seventh wave is the largest.
>>
>> The waves before it:
>>
>> Gernsback invented the genre as a genre.
>
>> Campbell demanded better writing
>
>> The '50s brought [...] more than the one man's view of the field.
>>
>> Then The New Wave
>
> So we're up to 4.
>
>> Then?
>
> Um, fantasy. Duh.
>
> But what's #6? Paranormal romance? That's certainly the largest
> so far.
>
> Even if we accept that, #7 is overdue.

It's going to be called "ontic catharsis", according to a 1997-02-17
post by Andrew Plotkin. If you have the ability to look up posts by
Message-ID, it's:
<erkyrathE5s8M3.2Cu@netcom.com>
Otherwise, searching for "Why Vernor Vinge Has Ruined SF For Me" might
persuade Giggle Groups to reveal it.

--
Michael F. Stemper
Always use apostrophe's and "quotation marks" properly.

Joe Bernstein wrote:
> Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:a099de85-ef48-4142...@googlegroups.com:
>
> > Then?
>
> Um, fantasy. Duh.
>
> But what's #6? Paranormal romance? That's certainly the largest
> so far.

I've got a list of subjects to [wish someone else would] research the development of!
I don't know if I can determine the difference between, say, a writer reading an alt-hist, and wanting to do something like that, and, say, knowing an editor is crazy for stories about psionics, and writing that. Mention of the romance genre always reminds me of the romance publisher that tried to apply its formula to science fiction, creating the imprint of Laser Books. This strikes me as the prime example of a commercial movement rather than a literary movement (even a failed literary movement - its publications stretch less than six months to either side of 1976) and I would say one of the markers of that is not advocating for others to follow its example.

Future History, a type of series writing less commercial than the character-centered series (which can be done with people as mundane as Sherlock Holmes) has been a sub-category, but has never had so many people writing it at the same time to even be thought of as a Wave. Or a Trend. I'm still trying to work out the difference. I'm leaning to discussion and analysis of it, preferably by those doing it, as to What It All Means - which should not just be more sales.

--
-Jack

On Thursday, July 22, 2021 at 11:32:57 PM UTC+1, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, July 22, 2021 at 4:49:43 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> > On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 20:32:37 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> > Heydt) wrote:
> >
> > >In article <ca23bcd7-c75a-4638...@googlegroups.com>,
> > >Andrew McDowell <mcdow...@sky.com> wrote:
> > >>On Thursday, July 22, 2021 at 5:08:15 PM UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
> > >>> On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:49:40 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
> > >>> <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> >On 20/07/2021 17.10, J. Clarke wrote:
> > >>> >> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 20:40:02 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> > >>> >> Heydt) wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> >>> Sort of the reverse of the CE effect, whereby any nonfunctioning
> > >>> >>> piece of hardware will begin to function perfectly as soon as the
> > >>> >>> CE takes a look at it.
> > >>> >>>
> > >>> >>> Hal was never a professional CE, but I have observed the CE
> > >>> >>> effect countless times, wherein my computer won't do [$ANYTHING]
> > >>> >>> until Hal gets up and comes to look at it, whereupon it works
> > >>> >>> again.
> > >>> >>>
> > >>> >>> Possibly he fixes it with a stern glance?
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> I find that effect very frustrating because I can't fix the damned
> > >>> >> thing if it won't stay broke.
> > >>> >
> > >>> >One instance of a piece of equipment made by my former employer didn't
> > >>> >work and didn't work. Every time the CE hooked a scope probe to it, it
> > >>> >worked just fine.
> > >>> This reminds me of those occasions where something goes wrong when I
> > >>> run a program I am working on ... but not when I debug it. When run in
> > >>> the debugger, everything is fine.
> > >>> >He finally soldered a scope probe in and it shipped that way.
> > >>> Not having that option, I keep pounding until I figure out what is
> > >>> /really/ happening and fix it.
> > >>> --
> > >>> "I begin to envy Petronius."
> > >>> "I have envied him long since."
> > >>
> > >>If there is one thing I have learnt during my career as a programmer, it
> > >>is that anything you don't understand will invariably come back to bite
> > >>you, generally at the worst possible time, such as during site
> > >>acceptance tests. I seem to remember one of the commanders in Babylon 5
> > >>saying something like "what you don't know will kill you" but I can't
> > >>find it as a quote on the internet.
> > >
> > >There's an old Larry Niven story (old enough that I can't
> > >remember anything else about it) whose punchline is "If you don't
> > >understand it, it's dangerous." Was that what you were looking
> > >for?
> > While what you don't know is dangerous, at least you know you don't
> > know it. What's really lethal is the stuff that you know that turns
> > out to be wrong.
> The 'unknown unknowns', the things you have no idea exist, and would
> be helpful to know, are just as bad.
>
> Pt

The sacrifice :-) of reviewing my collection of Bablyon 5 DVD's finds this in Series III Episode 1 "Matters of Honour" - starting a briefing near the end of the episode, John Sheridan says "The first thing I learnt at the academy was that lack of information can kill you". Partially confirmed by http://the_red_storm.fortunecity.ws/b5/john.html Those following the confusion on names thread can look at https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56792247 to find that John Sheridan has just been sacked as manager of Swindon Town after 9 losses in 11 games.

With all due respect to "unknown unknowns" and Mark Twain (or even Ronald Reagan) I would like to point out that "I don't understand" is more practical than general warnings about lack of information, because "I don't understand" gives you a place to start investigating - generally an apparent contradiction.