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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas

SubjectAuthor
* Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasFrank Lekens
+- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
+* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasDan Koren
|`- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasFrank Lekens
+- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasDan Koren
+- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMandryka
`* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasHT
 +- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasDan Koren
 `* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasHerman
  +* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasDan Koren
  |+* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  ||`* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasDan Koren
  || `* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  ||  `* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasDan Koren
  ||   +* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  ||   |`* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasDan Koren
  ||   | `- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  ||   `- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  |`* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasHerman
  | +- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  | +* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  | |`* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasDan Koren
  | | `- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  | `* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasJohnGavin
  |  +* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasDan Koren
  |  |+* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasHerman
  |  ||`- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  |  |`- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasHerman
  |  `* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  |   `* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasHerman
  |    `* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  |     `- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  +* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  |`- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  +* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasHT
  |`* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasDan Koren
  | `* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasHT
  |  `* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasDan Koren
  |   +- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasHT
  |   `* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  |    `* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasDan Koren
  |     +* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasOscar
  |     |+- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasOscar
  |     |+- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasDan Koren
  |     |+* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasDan Koren
  |     ||+- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  |     ||`- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMandryka
  |     |`* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasDan Koren
  |     | `- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasraymond....@gmail.com
  |     `- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
  `* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasFrank Lekens
   `* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasHerman
    +* Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasFrank Lekens
    |`- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMarc S
    `- Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatasMandryka

Pages:123
Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas

<a989330c-deb9-4ff2-b2dd-53d9e38ef6bfn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: hvtu...@xs4all.nl (HT)
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 by: HT - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 10:58 UTC

Op woensdag 28 juni 2023 om 12:52:16 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:
> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 3:50:42 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
> > Op woensdag 28 juni 2023 om 11:06:36 UTC+2 schreef Herman:
> > >
> > > What I heard felt super-mannered and cute.
> >
> > De gustibus ...
> Over-aged Gouda.

Not necessarily. Herman may prefer someone whose Mozart is even far less mannered and cute than YES's. Why not?

Henk

Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 11:04 UTC

On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 3:57:39 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 5:28:08 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:18:33 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 2:06:36 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > YMMV.
> > > > What I heard felt super-mannered and cute.
> > > Would it have felt super-mannered and cute if
> > > you didn't know who was playing? It would be
> > > useful if you could also proviede examples of
> > > non-mannered and/or non-cute Meowszart
> > > sonatas so we can understand your frame
> > > of reference.
> > Go fuck yourself, racist idiot.
> > People can post here without getting your
> > instant KGB interrogations.
> > You keep posting your opinions as facts
> > "In fact ABM's lease has expired".
> > I post my opinions as opinions and I want you to fuck off.
> I try not to get in the middle of poster conflicts, but I have to
> say something at this point. Herman’s anger and frustration
> are completely justified.

Really ?!? You are obviously taking sides.

> The other day he said that he attended a beautiful piano recital
> but would no longer consider describing it here because it would
> be torn apart here.

One never knows. There is only one way
to find out.

> I read that and said “exactly’! This is what has gone sour here. It’s
> the UTTER LACK OF RESPECT for others’ opinions that has become
> a permanent feature here, at least from certain frequent posters.

Why do you (and Herman) believe your opinions deserve more
"RESPECT" than anyone else's? The real problem is that Herman
(and others) believe their opinions are ABOVE everyone else's.

> Then his supporters say something to the effect of “why can’t
> he expressed his opinion“. But these are two separate issues,
> respectful disagreement and discussion, and simply bashing
> the other person’s opinion.

Would you please provide even a single example of Herman
disagreeing "respectfully" with anyone?

Pax and regards

Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: her...@yahoo.com (Herman)
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 by: Herman - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 11:20 UTC

On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 1:04:36 PM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> Would you please provide even a single example of Herman
> disagreeing "respectfully" with anyone?
>
> Pax and regards

I can do that, you hypocrite.

You commented about Isabelle Faust (renamed by you as Pantzerfaust, to make it clear that all Germans are Nazis) that her violin playing was scratchy and wobbly, she was no good.
So I said she's really one of the better violin soloists of today and her technique is impeccable. Maybe you were unable to her nuances in violin playing?
Your response was that I was an antisemite.
I rest my case.

Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 11:21 UTC

Dan Koren schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2023 um 12:50:21 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 3:15:57 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > Dan Koren schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2023 um 11:46:47 UTC+2:
> > >
> > > There is nothing there to understand.
> >
> > I actually do believe there is a lot to understand,
> Only for his therapists.

No, it would be good for you too ;)

> > and if only Herman understood his inner workings
> what "inner workings" ?!?

I know you have troubles accepting psychological assessments - always bitching about "guessing other people's motives" and lacking the self-awareness that you often do the same btw ;)

For example: Herman is projecting a lot - this should be obvious to anyone with a clear mind; no need for a psychological degree here. He obviously has a very weak ego which he tries to elevate by pointing fingers at others to make himself feel better about himself.

You know what I found funny about a recent thread that g unearthed: People going crazy about Trump's ridiculous statement about "injecting disinefctants"... yet people in this ng are all quiet about Biden and other Democratic officials telling the world that according to Transgender-Ideology one could change his sex. Now... this is ofc completely insane... does anyone hear a word about this on here? No all the anger gets concentrated on Trump and some rightwing people ;D

So you have these gender-ideologues (say at the Kennis- and Zorgcentrum Genderdysforie in Amsterdam) who indoctrinate little girls with fantasies such as that they can become boys if they only cut off their tits and take testosterone-drugs... Everyone on this NG - including you - is quiet about this.... Now don't tell me that this group is only for music, as you've been quite vocal about propagating insane covid politics as well...

Is Andy angry about this happening? No... Andy is solely concerned being one of the "good guys" and fighting the climate change ;D

I believe this to be symptoms of a rotten society. Very obvious.

> > he could be a better person; unfortunately, as we
> > all have witnessed: He has no self-control and
> > lacks self-awareness even more than Trump...
> Pax and regards
>
> dk

Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 11:22 UTC

Herman schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2023 um 13:21:02 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 1:04:36 PM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > Would you please provide even a single example of Herman
> > disagreeing "respectfully" with anyone?
> >
> > Pax and regards
> I can do that, you hypocrite.
>
> You commented about Isabelle Faust (renamed by you as Pantzerfaust, to make it clear that all Germans are Nazis) that her violin playing was scratchy and wobbly, she was no good.
> So I said she's really one of the better violin soloists of today and her technique is impeccable. Maybe you were unable to her nuances in violin playing?
> Your response was that I was an antisemite.
> I rest my case.

Who cares, you are an antisemite - for other reasons though ;)

Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: her...@yahoo.com (Herman)
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 by: Herman - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 11:25 UTC

On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 1:04:36 PM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:

> Why do you (and Herman) believe your opinions deserve more
> "RESPECT" than anyone else's? The real problem is that Herman
> (and others) believe their opinions are ABOVE everyone else's.

Lie nr. 1111.
I don't think that way. YOU do.
I gave the example of your saying that ABM was IN FACT over.
Another person would have said, for example, I don't listen to ABM anymore; or, I find his style of playing deja vu.
You regard your one word opinions ('superb') as FACTS and if someone says in response, not sure that was superb, the KGB interrogation follows.

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 11:30 UTC

JohnGavin schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2023 um 12:57:39 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 5:28:08 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:18:33 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 2:06:36 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > YMMV.
> > > > What I heard felt super-mannered and cute.
> > > Would it have felt super-mannered and cute if
> > > you didn't know who was playing? It would be
> > > useful if you could also proviede examples of
> > > non-mannered and/or non-cute Meowszart
> > > sonatas so we can understand your frame
> > > of reference.
> > Go fuck yourself, racist idiot.
> > People can post here without getting your instant KGB interrogations.
> > You keep posting your opinions as facts
> > "In fact ABM's lease has expired".
> > I post my opinions as opinions and I want you to fuck off.
> I try not to get in the middle of poster conflicts, but I have to say something at this point. Herman’s anger and frustration are completely justified.

No, it is not; he is just behaving like an irritated little kid. Sure enough someone like you who believes in some esoteric nonsense will not be able to see this, as you are in essence a child yourself.

My anger and frustration with idiots like you and Herman who obviously have no problems with girls getting their tits cut off in the name of Transgender-Ideology is justified; not your hysteria about Trump, Covid and the Climate lol.

> The other day he said that he attended a beautiful piano recital but would no longer consider describing it here because it would be torn apart here.. I read that and said “exactly’!

Well my little child, this world is not disney land ;) We are not here to only say stuff that you would like to hear - this is the real world. I am not going to lie to make you feel comfortable. People are allowed to express their opinions about stuff whichever way they want to, and if you can't deal with that, go check yourself into therapy or just lock yourself in your own appartment. Fucking fool.

> This is what has gone sour here. It’s the UTTER LACK OF RESPECT for others’ opinions that has become a permanent feature here, at least from certain frequent posters.

Did Bob Harper receive respect for his opinions about some of Trump's policies? Where were you to defend him from the Hermans and Andys? Go fuck yourself.

> Then his supporters say something to the effect of “why can’t he expressed his opinion“. But these are two separate issues, respectful disagreement and discussion, and simply bashing the other person’s opinion. The turning point for me was hearing a Rachmaninoff recording, and expressing my admiration, for it only to get a ROTFL from……. This lack of civility has really corroded the morale here for many except for the tribe.
> I think the chances of the changing are rather slim. But when people are indifferent to rudeness and awful manners, you’re just adding to the destruction of this forum. Don’t confuse the freedom to expressed one’s opinion with uncivil behavior!

Herman and you are the ones applying double standards - time to wake up.

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: her...@yahoo.com (Herman)
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 by: Herman - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 11:57 UTC

On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 1:30:34 PM UTC+2, Marc S wrote:
> JohnGavin schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2023 um 12:57:39 UTC+2:
> >

> > I try not to get in the middle of poster conflicts, but I have to say something at this point. Herman’s anger and frustration are completely justified.

> > The other day he said that he attended a beautiful piano recital but would no longer consider describing it here because it would be torn apart here. I read that and said “exactly’!

> Well my little child, this world is not disney land ;) We are not here to only say stuff that you would like to hear - this is the real world.

Excuse me, John is about twice your age, and, contrary to you, has seen something of 'the real world'.

The internet is not the real world. With the kind of behaviour you're indulging in here you would not survive five minutes in the real world.

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 12:04 UTC

On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 3:58:45 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
> Op woensdag 28 juni 2023 om 12:52:16 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:
> > On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 3:50:42 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
> > > Op woensdag 28 juni 2023 om 11:06:36 UTC+2 schreef Herman:
> > > >
> > > > What I heard felt super-mannered and cute.
> > >
> > > De gustibus ...
> > Over-aged Gouda.
>
> Not necessarily. Herman may prefer someone
> whose Mozart is even far less mannered and
> cute than YES's. Why not?

Certainly. However one cannot figure out what
he meanrs by (less)"mannered" and (less)"cute"
unless he can provide some examples. A single
data point is not sufficient. We've learned he
thinks YES is "cute" and "mannered". How
about any other Meowszart pianists? E.g.
Fazil Say, Ingrid Haebler, or Eschenbach?

And what about the possibility the mewsic
itself is somewhat "cute" and "mannered"?

To my ears, most Meowszart is cute and
mannered, except for a few chamber works.
I find even the Requiem theatrical and even
joyous in places.

Pax and regards

dk

Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 12:07 UTC

Herman schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2023 um 13:57:16 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 1:30:34 PM UTC+2, Marc S wrote:
> > JohnGavin schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2023 um 12:57:39 UTC+2:
> > >
>
> > > I try not to get in the middle of poster conflicts, but I have to say something at this point. Herman’s anger and frustration are completely justified.
> > > The other day he said that he attended a beautiful piano recital but would no longer consider describing it here because it would be torn apart here. I read that and said “exactly’!
>
> > Well my little child, this world is not disney land ;) We are not here to only say stuff that you would like to hear - this is the real world.
> Excuse me, John is about twice your age, and, contrary to you, has seen something of 'the real world'.

Excuse me, but age is no indication of maturity... should be obvious to anyone with a clear mind, not so much for donkeys like you.

I probably have seen more of the world than you or John ever will ;) Which countries have you visited?

>
> The internet is not the real world. With the kind of behaviour you're indulging in here you would not survive five minutes in the real world.

Unfortunately dear Herman... the internet is part of the real world; it is not something out of a dream, but actually a part of the real world whether you like it or not.

And let me help you reconnect with reality: Since the internet is part of the real world, and since I'm part of the real world and since I'm already an adult, it seems as I have survived in the real world for more than five minutes :)

Time to cut down on your delusions and devote yourself to some serious problems in the real world: Such as little girls getting their kids cut off by barbaric surgeons at the Kennis- and Zorgcentrum Genderdysforie in Amsterdam. You seem to have made Dan a major issue in your "life" or rather whatever is left of it haha :D and guess what, you only connect with him on the internet, yet you go nuts about everything he says...

Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 12:11 UTC

Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2023 um 14:07:38 UTC+2:
> Herman schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2023 um 13:57:16 UTC+2:
> > On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 1:30:34 PM UTC+2, Marc S wrote:
> > > JohnGavin schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2023 um 12:57:39 UTC+2:
> > > >
> >
> > > > I try not to get in the middle of poster conflicts, but I have to say something at this point. Herman’s anger and frustration are completely justified.
> > > > The other day he said that he attended a beautiful piano recital but would no longer consider describing it here because it would be torn apart here. I read that and said “exactly’!
> >
> > > Well my little child, this world is not disney land ;) We are not here to only say stuff that you would like to hear - this is the real world.
> > Excuse me, John is about twice your age, and, contrary to you, has seen something of 'the real world'.
> Excuse me, but age is no indication of maturity... should be obvious to anyone with a clear mind, not so much for donkeys like you.
>
> I probably have seen more of the world than you or John ever will ;) Which countries have you visited?
> >
> > The internet is not the real world. With the kind of behaviour you're indulging in here you would not survive five minutes in the real world.
> Unfortunately dear Herman... the internet is part of the real world; it is not something out of a dream, but actually a part of the real world whether you like it or not.
>
> And let me help you reconnect with reality: Since the internet is part of the real world, and since I'm part of the real world and since I'm already an adult, it seems as I have survived in the real world for more than five minutes :)
>
> Time to cut down on your delusions and devote yourself to some serious problems in the real world: Such as little girls getting their kids cut off by barbaric surgeons at the Kennis- and Zorgcentrum Genderdysforie in Amsterdam. You seem to have made Dan a major issue in your "life" or rather whatever is left of it haha :D and guess what, you only connect with him on the internet, yet you go nuts about everything he says...

*tits cut off -- Sorry.

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: hvtu...@xs4all.nl (HT)
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 by: HT - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 13:09 UTC

> Certainly. However one cannot figure out what
> he meanrs by (less)"mannered" and (less)"cute"
> unless he can provide some examples. A single
> data point is not sufficient. We've learned he
> thinks YES is "cute" and "mannered". How
> about any other Meowszart pianists? E.g.
> Fazil Say, Ingrid Haebler, or Eschenbach?

That's clear. Someone whose Mozart is even less mannered than YES's. Certainly not Say or Haebler. Eschenbach, perhaps. I was thinking of Gieseking or Askenase. In the Netherlands we once had Henkemans, who wasn't happy himself with his performance of the sonatas. He preferred the concertos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmdnC4kyUCs

> And what about the possibility the mewsic
> itself is somewhat "cute" and "mannered"?

Some believe he is. In particular in England, so it seems to me. YES proves so, and so did Casadesus and others, that there is no reason to promote this Viennese doll image of little Mozart.

> To my ears, most Meowszart is cute and
> mannered, except for a few chamber works.
> I find even the Requiem theatrical and even
> joyous in places.

Perhaps we grew up with that notion. His cousin Von Weber and even his opponent Clementi were anything but. So why would he?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7NMSUsfpeY

Henk

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 13:11 UTC

Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2023 um 11:18:37 UTC+2:
> Herman schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2023 um 11:06:36 UTC+2:
> > On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 10:55:50 AM UTC+2, HT wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks! I do like her performance of the sonatas, not the sonatas. She avoids being so awed by the name of Mozart that his music becomes sterile, mannered, or cute.
> > YMMV.
> > What I heard felt super-mannered and cute.
> So in a way you agree with me that Frank Lekens is a moron - thanks.
>
> I think you are right about this, and I should revise what I said about YES's Mozart before... not good, good pianism... but musically, no...
>
> OT:
> WRT Mozart's violin sonatas, only Kagan/Richter and Szigeti/Horszowski and maybe some Schnabel I am not remembering right now are doing justice to them - all the others just fail on too many levels; I guess Goldberg/Lupu is a good second choice... probably... but still not as good as the other two.... okay... Szeryng/Tipo were also quite good on their orfeo recording that you once mentioned.

*Szeryng/Tocco

>
> A question I don't really expect an answer from you, but, do you believe it to be a good practice to teach children to be able to change their sex? Like... shouldn't the Dutch government try to close those crazy pediatric clinics that promote such things as cutting of the tits of teenagers? Do you care for this dutch girl - Jet - to whom this has happened?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ez63cf_Fng
>
> It's quite obvious to me, you don't give a shit - very sad actually. If only less people in the NLD were like you, Jet could have been saved 8(

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 13:11 UTC

Dan Koren schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2023 um 14:04:53 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 3:58:45 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
> > Op woensdag 28 juni 2023 om 12:52:16 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:
> > > On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 3:50:42 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
> > > > Op woensdag 28 juni 2023 om 11:06:36 UTC+2 schreef Herman:
> > > > >
> > > > > What I heard felt super-mannered and cute.
> > > >
> > > > De gustibus ...
> > > Over-aged Gouda.
> >
> > Not necessarily. Herman may prefer someone
> > whose Mozart is even far less mannered and
> > cute than YES's. Why not?
> Certainly. However one cannot figure out what
> he meanrs by (less)"mannered" and (less)"cute"
> unless he can provide some examples. A single
> data point is not sufficient. We've learned he
> thinks YES is "cute" and "mannered". How
> about any other Meowszart pianists? E.g.
> Fazil Say, Ingrid Haebler, or Eschenbach?
>
> And what about the possibility the mewsic
> itself is somewhat "cute" and "mannered"?

....blasphemy... this notion is precisely what has led musicians down the wrong path wrt Mozart.

>
> To my ears, most Meowszart is cute and
> mannered, except for a few chamber works.

Then you have a wrong idea about Mozart... Mozart was a devil, full of fire.... listen to KV 497... actually listen to about everything he wrote...

the tensions must be heard - he is a dialectical composer; mozart wanted to and did break the rokoko-style; one can hear it...

Did you know what Mozart means? I think it's kind of funny, especially if you have his music in mind:

"The surname was first recorded in the 14th century as Mozahrt in Germany. It is a compound word, the first part of which is Middle High German mos, also spelt mosz, and meaning “bog, marsh” in southern dialects (compare modern German Moos). The second part is the common name-forming suffix -hart. It was used as a negative nickname for dirty or sloppy people."

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Mozart#:~:text=English-,Etymology,name%2Dforming%20suffix%20%2Dhart.

And now think of what Schoenberg means - with his music in mind ;D

> I find even the Requiem theatrical and even
> joyous in places.
>
> Pax and regards
>
> dk

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 by: Frank Lekens - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 18:00 UTC

Op 28-6-2023 om 09:24 schreef Dan Koren:
> On Tuesday, June 27, 2023 at 11:48:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Lekens wrote:
>>
>> Does anybody like the new Mozart
>> piano sonata recording by Yeol Eum
>> Son as much as I do? Please quantify.
>
> I do -- up to a point. I find the sound a
> bit dry, and the delivery a bit too driven.
> There is no question however this is one
> of the top 3 Meowszart Sonata sets.
>
> Have you heard Fazil Say?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/mozartcompletepianosonatas
>
> dk
>
Yes, but it's been a while. I've generally liked everything he recorded,
especially the cd's he recorded with Kopatchinskaja. Right now YES
strikes me as even fresher or livelier in the Mozart, but I haven't done
any close comparisons.
--
Frank Lekens

http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/

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 by: Frank Lekens - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 18:04 UTC

Op 28-6-2023 om 11:06 schreef Herman:
> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 10:55:50 AM UTC+2, HT wrote:
>>
>> Thanks! I do like her performance of the sonatas, not the sonatas. She avoids being so awed by the name of Mozart that his music becomes sterile, mannered, or cute.
>
> YMMV.
> What I heard felt super-mannered and cute.

I've heard this response from others too. Maybe that's more or less the
way she divides the critics.
Anyone's interpretation(s) in particular you'd prefer?
--
Frank Lekens

http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: her...@yahoo.com (Herman)
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 by: Herman - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 18:57 UTC

On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 8:05:05 PM UTC+2, Frank Lekens wrote:
>
> Anyone's interpretation(s) in particular you'd prefer?
> --
I know you mean well in asking this, but I'm just not going to name names, because there is a bunch of very bad people here and all hell would break loose again.
It's just not worth it.
If you enjoy YES's version, just enjoy!

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 by: Frank Lekens - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 19:02 UTC

Op 28-6-2023 om 20:57 schreef Herman:
> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 8:05:05 PM UTC+2, Frank Lekens wrote:
>>
>> Anyone's interpretation(s) in particular you'd prefer?
>> --
> I know you mean well in asking this, but I'm just not going to name names, because there is a bunch of very bad people here and all hell would break loose again.
> It's just not worth it.
> If you enjoy YES's version, just enjoy!

Sure, thanks.
--
Frank Lekens

http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/

Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 19:12 UTC

Frank Lekens schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2023 um 21:02:45 UTC+2:
> Op 28-6-2023 om 20:57 schreef Herman:
> > On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 8:05:05 PM UTC+2, Frank Lekens wrote:
> >>
> >> Anyone's interpretation(s) in particular you'd prefer?
> >> --
> > I know you mean well in asking this, but I'm just not going to name names, because there is a bunch of very bad people here and all hell would break loose again.
> > It's just not worth it.
> > If you enjoy YES's version, just enjoy!
> Sure, thanks.
> --
> Frank Lekens
>
> http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
> https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/

I'd guess sth along the lines of Daniel-Ben Pienaar - and yes, he sucks imo; now he was on this forum once to defend himself - I think when DK made a thread about him and said some funny things, hehe.

Some people seem to like it which I find strange, anyway he's free to play Mozart however he likes to.

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: howie.st...@gmail.com (Mandryka)
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 by: Mandryka - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 21:23 UTC

On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 7:57:09 PM UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 8:05:05 PM UTC+2, Frank Lekens wrote:
> >
> > Anyone's interpretation(s) in particular you'd prefer?
> > --
> I know you mean well in asking this, but I'm just not going to name names, because there is a bunch of very bad people here and all hell would break loose again.
> It's just not worth it.
> If you enjoy YES's version, just enjoy!

Oh for fucks sake!

Anyway, I prefer Claudio Arrau and Leon McCauley.

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 22:28 UTC

On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 6:11:56 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
>
> the tensions must be heard - he is a dialectical composer;

Did you skip your daily haloperidol flush this morning?

Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: oscaredw...@gmail.com (Oscar)
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 by: Oscar - Thu, 29 Jun 2023 02:52 UTC

Just in past 18 months, excellent integrales of Sonatas for fortepiano by:

-Robert Levin (ECM)
-Elisabeth Leonskaja (Warner Classics)
-Mao Fujita (Sony Classics)
-Yeol Yum Son (Naïve)

Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: oscaredw...@gmail.com (Oscar)
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 by: Oscar - Thu, 29 Jun 2023 02:54 UTC

On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 7:52:51 PM, Oscar wrote:
>
> -Robert Levin (ECM)
> -Elisabeth Leonskaja (Warner Classics)
> -Mao Fujita (Sony Classics)
> -Yeol Yum Son (Naïve)

In that order, too, btw, if I do say so.

Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Thu, 29 Jun 2023 03:47 UTC

On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 7:52:51 PM UTC-7, Oscar wrote:
> Just in past 18 months, excellent integrales of Sonatas for fortepiano by:
>
> -Robert Levin (ECM)
> -Elisabeth Leonskaja (Warner Classics)
> -Mao Fujita (Sony Classics)
> -Yeol Yum Son (Naïve)

Only Levin plays a f....piano.
All the others play on real
instruments.

I would also rank Fazil Say
above all those mentioned.

dk

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Subject: Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas
From: marcs12...@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Thu, 29 Jun 2023 03:47 UTC

Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 29. Juni 2023 um 00:29:00 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 6:11:56 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> >
> > the tensions must be heard - he is a dialectical composer;
> Did you skip your daily haloperidol flush this morning?

Did you take a covid-shot too much, or were you always this retarded? What a sad Jew you are... hiding like a paranoid behind a scuba-mask because of covid, being hysterical about Netanyahu - but then being friendly with antisemites :D

Just because I use a word you don't have a clue about, does not mean there is anything wrong with me :)

You really are one sad fellow... just as Frank...


arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: Yeol Eum Son Mozart sonatas

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