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interests / alt.toys.transformers / Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus Prime and Galvatron (and Buzzworthy Cliffjumper Too)

SubjectAuthor
* Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus Prime andZobovor
`* Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser OptimusGustavo Wombat
 `* Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus Prime andZobovor
  `* Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser OptimusGustavo Wombat
   `* Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus Prime andZobovor
    `- Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser OptimusGustavo Wombat

1
Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus Prime and Galvatron (and Buzzworthy Cliffjumper Too)

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Subject: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus Prime and
Galvatron (and Buzzworthy Cliffjumper Too)
From: zmf...@aol.com (Zobovor)
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 by: Zobovor - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 20:13 UTC

My wife was shopping at Target last night, and called me at home and told me about some of the NECA Ninja Turtles stuff they had on the shelf, because she knows it's traditionally been very hard for me to find. I didn't need any of the toys they had, but then I asked her to check the Transformers section for Buzzworthy Cliffjumper, and they also had G2 Laser Prime and Legacy Galvatron. She got them all for me. Yay! (I already had Laser Prime pre-ordered through Hasbro Pulse, but he's not scheduled to ship until July.. It's been a rough few weeks, so I'm more than happy to get new toys now instead of later!)

LASER OPTIMUS PRIME

So, the Transformers: Generation 2 toy line started out as reissues of G1 toys, sometimes with different colors or stickers or weapons, before selling us some toys previously available only in Europe, and then finally coming into its own with all-new designs. Arguably one of the best toys from that line was Laser Optimus Prime in 1995, named so because he was a spin-off of the existing Laser Rods and Laser Cycles, which had light-up weapons.

They've done tributes to this toy a couple of times already. We got the cab section only during the Reveal the Shield toy line in 2010, and then we got a very small version, with a trailer, during Titans Return in 2016 (a Triple Changer pre-deco of Octane, sold to us twice, a standalone in G1 colors and the version in the Chaos on Velocitron set sold in G2 colors). However, no reimagined version of this toy has ever successfully recaptured the magic of the original G2 toy, which was chock-full of gimmicks.

As a Leader-class toy, this new version is a bit larger, though still not quite reaching the size of the 1995 version. In tractor trailer mode, the new toy is about 11.25" in length, with the trailer comprising about 6.5" of that length. The cab by itself is nearly 7.5" long. As with Earthrise Prime, the trailer seems small for the cab. On the G2 toy, the trailer was by far the largest of the two components, but not here.

The fandom has always taken delight in pointing out that the original deco featured stickers of Optimus Prime burning down a forest with his flamethrower. There are no such stickers this time. (You just know Toyhax or somebody will supply them eventually as a third-party option.)

Prime comes with a sword and a weird disc-shaped weapon with handle that could be generously described as an axe. The sword stores under the cab module, just like the G2 toy, and you can also store the folded-up axe on the trailer hitch if you don't want Prime to tow his trailer around.

The trailer module unfolds into a battle station, just like the G2 toy. The basic idea is the same—the sides swing open to form side platforms, while the center becomes a tower. It's executed a little differently than the first version, of course, and lacks the disc-launcher weapon or the air bellows launcher and missile borrowed from the Combat Hero version of Prime. It's got a little dual cannon on a turret that can rotate, and there's a manipulator claw on the front that seems to suggest the transformed trailer is capable of some level of semi-automomous operation. There are eight unassigned peg-holes that will accept any random weapons you choose to attach, and there are also dedicated storage ports to connect Prime's sword and axe-thingy.

The cab is a long-nosed design, mostly black with a red flame pattern on the hood. Remember how indignant fans were when Prime was made this style of truck for the live-action Michael Bay movies, and insisted he absolutely had to be a flat-nosed cabover engine style? Funny how nobody balked when he was released 12 years earlier looking just like this. (The original G2 toy had a red-to-black gradient on the hood; the flames are new, and are a clear tribute to the movie design.)

One of the great things about the original G2 Laser Prime toy was how the transformation was clean and simple, but still resulted in a really good-looking Prime toy that captured his cartoon aesthetic nicely, during an era when a lot of transforming toys were still saddled with tiny heads, stubby arms, and legs that were permanently fused together. Now that twenty-plus points of articulation and cartoon proportions are pretty much standard for the toy line, merely possessing these attributes is less impressive than it was 27 years ago.

This toy has a much more complex and elaborate transformation, and it almost doesn't seem necessary. It's a lot of extra steps just to get a truck cab to stand up on its rear bumper. It makes me wonder, since we've gotten a new Leader-class version of Astrotrain and Blitzwing, if they're going to try to sell this toy to us again as Octane. If they resculpted the robot face and shoulders and chest, and found a good way to make the shoulder towers disappear, it might work pretty well.

As a robot, Prime is about 6.75" at the head, with his shoulder towers bringing him up to about 7.25" tall. So, bigger than the Reveal the Shield toy, certainly, but still not quite as big and imposing as the original G2 toy.. The color mapping is totally wrong for a G1 version of Prime—dark grey for the body and pelvis and upper legs, black boots with blue toes, and a blue abdomen. It will look wrong to some people. But, it's totally authentic to the colors used by the G2 toy, so I wholeheartedly approve of it.

On this edition of the toy, the shoulder towers are static, mounted to the upper body, and don't move when you pose the arms. (The front shoulder panels with the yellow painted deco can swing out of the way to give you more room to move the arms.) He's got some fun new features, like the ability for the panels on the shoulder towers to flip up to reveal a set of laser batteries, and an opening chest that reveals the Matrix of Leadership. (It's not the same Matrix mold that we've been getting during Earthrise and Kingdom and Studio Series, though, but a smaller Matrix made especially for G2 Prime. This means you can't play mix-and-match, alas.)

There's some interactive compatibility with the robot and the battle station, though I can't help but feel like the gunner station seems laughably small compared to the G2 version. The robot can, of course, wield the sword and axe, and the dual-barreled gun also pops off for use as a handheld gun, or can plug into the side of his leg, can go on his back, etc. The axe and sword can also combine together to build an even bigger weapon.

I am absolutely certain Hasbro will sell this toy again as Scourge from Robots in Disguise. It just doesn't make any sense not to.

Considering the price point and what was able to fit into a Leader-class box, this is a really good homage. I'm the biggest fan of G2 that I know of, and we just don't get many tribute toys to this era of Transformers history. I absolutely love G2 and I would love to get new versions of Firecracker and Skram and Hooligan and all the rest. That probably won't ever happen.. But, this is honestly great.

GALVATRON

This toy comes close to being a mere package refresh, but it is technically a redeco. When we first heard rumors that Kingdom Galvatron was going to be sold again during Legacy, the images of him that had surfaced showed him without the ugly battle damage paint on his chest and weapon that the original version had. I don't think I can think of a single time when the battle damage actually improved the look of the toy. I understand it was part of the planned Siege aesthetic, but most of the time it just uglies up the toy.

So, this is a clean version of Galvatron, with no paint on the barrel to his arm cannon, and no purple splotches on his upper torso. Aside from that, it's the same toy. Whether it's worth fifty bucks to you to get a slightly better Galvatron is entirely up to the individual. I happen to love Galvatron (I think he's like my third-favorite Transformers character ever, and only my immense fondness for Soundwave and Cyclonus prevent him from reaching the coveted number one spot) and so it was worth it to me to own a cleaner, better-looking version of this already great toy. Aaaaaand that's how Hasbro gets you, dontcha know.

What I absolutely do not endorse, but which I suspect is going to happen in alarming abundance in the coming months, is people purchasing Legacy Galvatron and then stuffing their old Kingdom Galvatron into the box and returning it to Target or wherever. If you can't afford to collect toys, then stop collecting toys. But don't try to rip off retailers, and ultimately Hasbro themselves, by playing the toy-swap game. If you do this, then you're an awful human being. When you're swapping toys, you're not being clever. You're just acting entitled, and being an asshole. The closed-face design of the Legacy packaging is only going to make this easier to do.

I would presume that they've also worked out whatever assembly problems they were having at the factory during the Kingdom production run. For the record, the shoulders weren't backwards on my Legacy Galvatron, though I suspect we'll have to wait until this toy hits market saturation before we know for sure whether this problem was eliminated entirely.

CLIFFJUMPER

I've also been greatly looking forward to Cliffworthy Cliffjumper, whose cartoon-based deco pleases me, being more accurate to his screen appearance than the Earthrise edition we got in 2020. He tends to go for $40 or more on eBay, as of this writing, and I was nearly about to bite the bullet when my wife happened to find him at Target for me. I've been hunting for him for weeks now. Evidently I'm not the only one who finds this toy highly desirable!


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Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus Prime and Galvatron (and Buzzworthy Cliffjumper Too)

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From: gustavow...@yahoo.com (Gustavo Wombat)
Newsgroups: alt.toys.transformers
Subject: Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus
Prime and Galvatron (and Buzzworthy Cliffjumper Too)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 08:18:28 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Gustavo Wombat - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 08:18 UTC

Zobovor <zmfts@aol.com> wrote:

> I don't think I can think of a single time when the battle damage
> actually improved the look of the toy.

Dead Optimus actually needed more battle damage. Painted cracks across a
chest window at the very least.

And I think that Netflix Siege Megatron, with silver paint plus extra
battle damage, looks amazing. It might just be that toys don’t have enough.

Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus Prime and Galvatron (and Buzzworthy Cliffjumper Too)

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Subject: Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus Prime and
Galvatron (and Buzzworthy Cliffjumper Too)
From: zmf...@aol.com (Zobovor)
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 by: Zobovor - Sun, 1 May 2022 03:45 UTC

On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 2:18:29 AM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> Dead Optimus actually needed more battle damage. Painted cracks across a
> chest window at the very least.

The head sculpt was great on that toy. But, yes, he needed more damage.
> And I think that Netflix Siege Megatron, with silver paint plus extra
> battle damage, looks amazing. It might just be that toys don’t have enough.

I can't readily picture that toy in my mind. I didn't remember the Netflix version being that different from the other versions.

I think battle damage just needs to be character-specific. I mean, if you do an entire toy line full of battle-damaged characters, then it turns into the Dreamwave comic book where every single character had cracks and scratches in his armor. These are gigantic space robots made of alien metals. They don't walk around looking like that all the time. The reason it was so memorable when Prime and Megatron were in that kind of shape after their duel in The Transformers: the Movie was because you just didn't see that sort of thing.

So, I think it needs to be specific to the individual characters. Kup is a great example of a character who needs battle damage. Also, I've said this before, but there's a short list of characters who are described as being grimy and disgusting. Blot, Wide Load, Landfill, Apeface. Maybe Bristleback, since he's got a rust problem. The G1 versions of those characters were pristine, and it was at odds with their character descriptions. The two versions of Blot we got recently (Hasbro and then the Takara redeco)? Neither one was grimy. Apeface actually had battle damage, but it was serendipity that he was released when he was.

Zob (Sarah N. Dippity)

Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus Prime and Galvatron (and Buzzworthy Cliffjumper Too)

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Newsgroups: alt.toys.transformers
Subject: Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus
Prime and Galvatron (and Buzzworthy Cliffjumper Too)
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 08:56:24 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Gustavo Wombat - Sun, 1 May 2022 08:56 UTC

Zobovor <zmfts@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 2:18:29 AM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the
> Seattle Wombats wrote:
>
>> Dead Optimus actually needed more battle damage. Painted cracks across a
>> chest window at the very least.
>
> The head sculpt was great on that toy. But, yes, he needed more damage.
>
>> And I think that Netflix Siege Megatron, with silver paint plus extra
>> battle damage, looks amazing. It might just be that toys don’t have enough.
>
> I can't readily picture that toy in my mind. I didn't remember the
> Netflix version being that different from the other versions.
>

https://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/netflix-wfc-megatron-with-lionizer-and-pinpointer.1192016/

The four major versions before the Japanese “Deluxe Paint” or whatever
version

Gray plastic is replaced by gunmetal plastic, with a silver paint on top of
that in many spots. And then battle damage.

> I think battle damage just needs to be character-specific. I mean, if
> you do an entire toy line full of battle-damaged characters, then it
> turns into the Dreamwave comic book where every single character had
> cracks and scratches in his armor. These are gigantic space robots made
> of alien metals. They don't walk around looking like that all the time.

The premise of Siege was that they were in the middle of the war, beaten
down, barely functioning.

And then each had specific battle damage on one part and looked dumb. The
Netflix Megatron has good looking damage — less intense than some, but
better distribution of it.

I think the Netflix Black Siege Ironhide (Deesus Drone?) also does pretty
well with making enough parts battle damaged that it doesn’t look weird,
but just does too much. He’s covered in… damage or silver mud.

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:WFCT-toy_DeseeusDrone.jpg

Anyway, you claimed no toy looked better with battle damage, and I had two
counter examples! I might add in Deseeus Drone. (What a terrible name and
use of that character design…)

I’ll add Netflix Decepticon Disguise Mirage, who also should have been
another character with a character. (And he should have been named
Holocast, because he has holograms, and it’s one letter away from
holocaust)… (and a VW Bumblebee redeco with Nazi flags should be Holocaust…
no, wait, that’s a terrible idea, and Holocast might be bad too)

Generally, they look worse for it. But there are a few that make it work.

> The reason it was so memorable when Prime and Megatron were in that kind
> of shape after their duel in The Transformers: the Movie was because you
> just didn't see that sort of thing.
>
> So, I think it needs to be specific to the individual characters. Kup is
> a great example of a character who needs battle damage. Also, I've said
> this before, but there's a short list of characters who are described as
> being grimy and disgusting. Blot, Wide Load, Landfill, Apeface. Maybe
> Bristleback, since he's got a rust problem. The G1 versions of those
> characters were pristine, and it was at odds with their character
> descriptions. The two versions of Blot we got recently (Hasbro and then
> the Takara redeco)? Neither one was grimy. Apeface actually had battle
> damage, but it was serendipity that he was released when he was.

Mr. Face needed more or less battle damage. He had the wrong amount,
concentrated on a few pieces of plastic.

> Zob (Sarah N. Dippity)
>

Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus Prime and Galvatron (and Buzzworthy Cliffjumper Too)

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Subject: Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus Prime and
Galvatron (and Buzzworthy Cliffjumper Too)
From: zmf...@aol.com (Zobovor)
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 by: Zobovor - Sun, 1 May 2022 22:12 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 2:56:29 AM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> Anyway, you claimed no toy looked better with battle damage, and I had two
> counter examples!

I'll concede the point. By and large, though, I still prefer my robots to look clean.

A great many of my G1 toys ended up with battle damage when I was a kid, when the paint chipped so the die-cast metal was visible, the chrome wore off to reveal the plastic underneath, and the stickers got scratched or torn or faded or wet. I'm not nostalgic about toys that look like they're in bad shape. To me, that's not a good look at all.
> Mr. Face needed more or less battle damage. He had the wrong amount,
> concentrated on a few pieces of plastic.

We never did get a redeco of that toy. I wouldn't hate a clean version, with plastic colors to match Snapdragon instead of that weird milky white they used.

Zob (because clearly I need more plastic robots)

Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus Prime and Galvatron (and Buzzworthy Cliffjumper Too)

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From: gustavow...@yahoo.com (Gustavo Wombat)
Newsgroups: alt.toys.transformers
Subject: Re: Zob's Thoughts on Legacy Leader-Class Laser Optimus
Prime and Galvatron (and Buzzworthy Cliffjumper Too)
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 06:14:40 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Gustavo Wombat - Mon, 2 May 2022 06:14 UTC

Zobovor <zmfts@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 2:56:29 AM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
>
>> Anyway, you claimed no toy looked better with battle damage, and I had two
>> counter examples!
>
> I'll concede the point. By and large, though, I still prefer my robots to look clean.
>
> A great many of my G1 toys ended up with battle damage when I was a kid,
> when the paint chipped so the die-cast metal was visible, the chrome wore
> off to reveal the plastic underneath, and the stickers got scratched or
> torn or faded or wet. I'm not nostalgic about toys that look like
> they're in bad shape. To me, that's not a good look at all.

They look loved. Like animals in casts.

Surely when you see a hedgehog with a cast, your heart breaks and you want
to take it home, right?

>> Mr. Face needed more or less battle damage. He had the wrong amount,
>> concentrated on a few pieces of plastic.
>
> We never did get a redeco of that toy. I wouldn't hate a clean version,
> with plastic colors to match Snapdragon instead of that weird milky white they used.
>

I hated that milky white plastic. There are two plastics Hasbro keeps using
that I hate, and that is one. The other is the milky pearlized light gray
that’s supposed to be silver.

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