In article <ddjvhg98bg9p8bm7h440kdruutu12n6d4j@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 05:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 8:53:31 AM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Are there "Five Fully Completed -- I Changed My Mind, Not Yet SFF Series"?
>>> Every time I think of _The Gods of Riverworld_ I get so mad.
>>
>>I view that as a _far_ lesser offense than starting a series, and then failing
>>to deliver the planned conclusion.
>>
>>I mean, take the Tarzan novels. Edgar Rice Burroughs delivered _The Return
>>of Tarzan_ and _The Beasts of Tarzan_ after _Tarzan of the Apes_, so readers
>>were not left hanging by the plot elements left unresolved in the first novel.
>>
>>As the character was popular, he then delivered a number of episodic novels
>>with the same main character. He made money, and the readers enjoyed the
>>books. What's not to like?
>
>Also comic strips, movies, and (IIRC) merchandizing.
>
>This was not the usual practice at the time. The theory prevalent then
>was that the books, comic strips, and movies would /compete/ with each
>other for the same audience, and so he would make less money.
>
>Worked for him, though.

Except he kept finding new ways to go broke iirc..
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 20 Aug 2021 18:02:02 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
<tednolan>) wrote:

>In article <ddjvhg98bg9p8bm7h440kdruutu12n6d4j@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 05:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 8:53:31 AM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are there "Five Fully Completed -- I Changed My Mind, Not Yet SFF Series"?
>>>> Every time I think of _The Gods of Riverworld_ I get so mad.
>>>
>>>I view that as a _far_ lesser offense than starting a series, and then failing
>>>to deliver the planned conclusion.
>>>
>>>I mean, take the Tarzan novels. Edgar Rice Burroughs delivered _The Return
>>>of Tarzan_ and _The Beasts of Tarzan_ after _Tarzan of the Apes_, so readers
>>>were not left hanging by the plot elements left unresolved in the first novel.
>>>
>>>As the character was popular, he then delivered a number of episodic novels
>>>with the same main character. He made money, and the readers enjoyed the
>>>books. What's not to like?
>>
>>Also comic strips, movies, and (IIRC) merchandizing.
>>
>>This was not the usual practice at the time. The theory prevalent then
>>was that the books, comic strips, and movies would /compete/ with each
>>other for the same audience, and so he would make less money.
>>
>>Worked for him, though.
>
>Except he kept finding new ways to go broke iirc..

I thought Burroughs ended up doing pretty well. Took him a while to
get started but once he started selling stories he apparently was good
with his money.

In article <m9tvhghmirdgb2qqsvh2m1g04qcokgj6gk@4ax.com>,
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 20 Aug 2021 18:02:02 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
><tednolan>) wrote:
>
>>In article <ddjvhg98bg9p8bm7h440kdruutu12n6d4j@4ax.com>,
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 05:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 8:53:31 AM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Are there "Five Fully Completed -- I Changed My Mind, Not Yet SFF Series"?
>>>>> Every time I think of _The Gods of Riverworld_ I get so mad.
>>>>
>>>>I view that as a _far_ lesser offense than starting a series, and
>then failing
>>>>to deliver the planned conclusion.
>>>>
>>>>I mean, take the Tarzan novels. Edgar Rice Burroughs delivered _The Return
>>>>of Tarzan_ and _The Beasts of Tarzan_ after _Tarzan of the Apes_, so readers
>>>>were not left hanging by the plot elements left unresolved in the
>first novel.
>>>>
>>>>As the character was popular, he then delivered a number of episodic novels
>>>>with the same main character. He made money, and the readers enjoyed the
>>>>books. What's not to like?
>>>
>>>Also comic strips, movies, and (IIRC) merchandizing.
>>>
>>>This was not the usual practice at the time. The theory prevalent then
>>>was that the books, comic strips, and movies would /compete/ with each
>>>other for the same audience, and so he would make less money.
>>>
>>>Worked for him, though.
>>
>>Except he kept finding new ways to go broke iirc..
>
>I thought Burroughs ended up doing pretty well. Took him a while to
>get started but once he started selling stories he apparently was good
>with his money.

Huh. Maybe I'm misremembering it, but I thought at least he bought and named
Tarzana CA and then lost it somehow.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

In article <n8jvhg15b1dlcnk6hrvp97g84tbdkopq31@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 13:07:58 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>In article <ed71cb20-2830-45fa-9785-1c1603853549n@googlegroups.com>,
>>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 7:28:35 AM UTC-6, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's not necessarily a flaw. As I understand it, Tolkien started
>>>> _The Lord of the Rings_ without knowing where it would go, either.
>>>
>>>For a certain value of "started".
>>>
>>>That is: when he was sending installments to his son Christopher, he had
>>>no idea where the story would go.
>>>
>>>But the entire trilogy or hexalogy, to be more accurate, was _finished_
>>>before he approached a publisher with it. So there is no question of anyone
>>>having purchased _The Fellowship of the Ring_ and being at risk of _The
>>>Two Towers_ and/or _The Return of the King_ not being written.
>>
>>What a frightening idea.
>>
>>I didn't discover Tolkien till I was in graduate school. I was
>>wandering around the UC Berkeley Education/Psychology Library,
>>subsection Children's Literature, because there were some good
>>books there that I had never encountered before. And there was
>>_The Hobbit_, and that's certainly a children's book. And the
>>three volumes of _The Lord of the Rings_ were shelved right next
>>to it, because some librarian had assumed they were children's
>>books too.
>>
>>So I took out _Fellowship_ and _Two Towers_, figuring that would
>>be plenty of reading for a weekend.
>>
>>When I got to the end of _Towers_ it was Sunday afternoon and the
>>E/P Library was closed, not to reopen till Monday morning. I had
>>no idea what was going to happen next; I made up strategies for
>>getting Frodo out of there. I forget now what they were (this
>>was fifty-plus years ago), but it was nothing like what Tolkien
>>did.
>
>You were lucky.
>
>The original readers were stuck for several months, as Tolkien and his
>publishers negotiated how much of the Appendices could go into the
>third volume.
>
>The end of /The Two Towers/ (the book, of course) is, IMHO, the Mother
>and Father of All Cliffhangers.

Oh yes.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <ioadn8FhmkrU1@mid.individual.net>,
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>In article <m9tvhghmirdgb2qqsvh2m1g04qcokgj6gk@4ax.com>,
>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 20 Aug 2021 18:02:02 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
>><tednolan>) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <ddjvhg98bg9p8bm7h440kdruutu12n6d4j@4ax.com>,
>>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 05:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 8:53:31 AM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Are there "Five Fully Completed -- I Changed My Mind, Not Yet SFF
>Series"?
>>>>>> Every time I think of _The Gods of Riverworld_ I get so mad.
>>>>>
>>>>>I view that as a _far_ lesser offense than starting a series, and
>>then failing
>>>>>to deliver the planned conclusion.
>>>>>
>>>>>I mean, take the Tarzan novels. Edgar Rice Burroughs delivered _The Return
>>>>>of Tarzan_ and _The Beasts of Tarzan_ after _Tarzan of the Apes_, so readers
>>>>>were not left hanging by the plot elements left unresolved in the
>>first novel.
>>>>>
>>>>>As the character was popular, he then delivered a number of episodic novels
>>>>>with the same main character. He made money, and the readers enjoyed the
>>>>>books. What's not to like?
>>>>
>>>>Also comic strips, movies, and (IIRC) merchandizing.
>>>>
>>>>This was not the usual practice at the time. The theory prevalent then
>>>>was that the books, comic strips, and movies would /compete/ with each
>>>>other for the same audience, and so he would make less money.
>>>>
>>>>Worked for him, though.
>>>
>>>Except he kept finding new ways to go broke iirc..
>>
>>I thought Burroughs ended up doing pretty well. Took him a while to
>>get started but once he started selling stories he apparently was good
>>with his money.
>
>Huh. Maybe I'm misremembering it, but I thought at least he bought and named
>Tarzana CA and then lost it somehow.

Hmm, nope nothing in WP at least.

Looks like I'm wrong twice on this thread. Which I'm afraid is probably
not a record.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

In article <sfojjq$o6u$1@dont-email.me>,
David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 2021-08-16 7:26 a.m., Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 8/15/2021 10:45 PM, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 12:29:44 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 8/13/2021 8:34 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>> Five Fully Completed SFF Series
>>>>> https://www.tor.com/2021/08/13/five-fully-completed-sff-series/
>>>> Zero for five here. There are so many completed series that could be
>>>> mentioned here though: Tarzan of the Apes, The Dahak series by David
>>>> Weber, The Narnia series, The Ancillary Justice series by Ann Leckie,
>>>> etc.
>>>
>>> The Narnia series is an interesting example. It might have seemed to be
>>> complete to its author, but a member of my SF discussion group said that
>>> when her grade-school age daughter finished reading the Narnia stories it
>>> was immediately obvious to her that there was a gaping hole in the
>>> narrative
>>> with respect to the fate of Susan. She spoke of writing Susan's story
>>> herself.
>>> I have since found that this point of view is not uncommon. I seem to
>>> recall
>>> reading somewhere that the Lewis estate is opposed to authorizing any
>>> stories addressing this. Is there any good fan-fiction about Susan
>>> Pevensie?
>>> When will it enter the public domain? Susan was young enough during
>>> World War 2 that she could still be alive today.
>>>
>> I thought I remembered there being something in the last book about how
>> Susan had basically grown up, moved on and lapsed in her faith in Aslan.
>>
>>
>
>Yeah. She got interested in cosmetics and fashion so she's Hell-bound
>now.

Not necessarily. Lewis doesn't tell us how old any of the kids
were when Narnia ended, but I'd bet no older than early teens.
I quoted Jo's poem a while back, in which she sees a lion's eyes
in the priest conducting the funeral. The standard Earth-bound
path to Aslan's country is open to her, and she might take it.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 2:02:06 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <ddjvhg98bg9p8bm7h...@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 05:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> ><jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >
> >>On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 8:53:31 AM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> Are there "Five Fully Completed -- I Changed My Mind, Not Yet SFF Series"?
> >>> Every time I think of _The Gods of Riverworld_ I get so mad.
> >>
> >>I view that as a _far_ lesser offense than starting a series, and then failing
> >>to deliver the planned conclusion.
> >>
> >>I mean, take the Tarzan novels. Edgar Rice Burroughs delivered _The Return
> >>of Tarzan_ and _The Beasts of Tarzan_ after _Tarzan of the Apes_, so readers
> >>were not left hanging by the plot elements left unresolved in the first novel.
> >>
> >>As the character was popular, he then delivered a number of episodic novels
> >>with the same main character. He made money, and the readers enjoyed the
> >>books. What's not to like?
> >
> >Also comic strips, movies, and (IIRC) merchandizing.
> >
> >This was not the usual practice at the time. The theory prevalent then
> >was that the books, comic strips, and movies would /compete/ with each
> >other for the same audience, and so he would make less money.
> >
> >Worked for him, though.
> Except he kept finding new ways to go broke iirc..

Having read a lot of 30s based SF memoirs (Asimov, Del Rey, Knight ...) my expectations
for pulp writers of the time was that they would struggle to get a cent a word, half a cent
being more common, a quarter cent withing living memory, and Campbell's extra 1/8 cent bonus
for an exceptional story was large enough to be a real motivation.

So it was surprising to learn that as early as 1916, Rex Stout was getting 2.5 cents per
word (not for Wolfe, that was later) and that one other author was getting this princely
return - ERB.

If memory serves SF writers were getting about three cents a word, at best, forty years
later.

William Hyde

On 20 Aug 2021 19:22:16 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
<tednolan>) wrote:

>In article <m9tvhghmirdgb2qqsvh2m1g04qcokgj6gk@4ax.com>,
>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 20 Aug 2021 18:02:02 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
>><tednolan>) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <ddjvhg98bg9p8bm7h440kdruutu12n6d4j@4ax.com>,
>>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 05:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 8:53:31 AM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Are there "Five Fully Completed -- I Changed My Mind, Not Yet SFF Series"?
>>>>>> Every time I think of _The Gods of Riverworld_ I get so mad.
>>>>>
>>>>>I view that as a _far_ lesser offense than starting a series, and
>>then failing
>>>>>to deliver the planned conclusion.
>>>>>
>>>>>I mean, take the Tarzan novels. Edgar Rice Burroughs delivered _The Return
>>>>>of Tarzan_ and _The Beasts of Tarzan_ after _Tarzan of the Apes_, so readers
>>>>>were not left hanging by the plot elements left unresolved in the
>>first novel.
>>>>>
>>>>>As the character was popular, he then delivered a number of episodic novels
>>>>>with the same main character. He made money, and the readers enjoyed the
>>>>>books. What's not to like?
>>>>
>>>>Also comic strips, movies, and (IIRC) merchandizing.
>>>>
>>>>This was not the usual practice at the time. The theory prevalent then
>>>>was that the books, comic strips, and movies would /compete/ with each
>>>>other for the same audience, and so he would make less money.
>>>>
>>>>Worked for him, though.
>>>
>>>Except he kept finding new ways to go broke iirc..
>>
>>I thought Burroughs ended up doing pretty well. Took him a while to
>>get started but once he started selling stories he apparently was good
>>with his money.
>
>Huh. Maybe I'm misremembering it, but I thought at least he bought and named
>Tarzana CA and then lost it somehow.

Apparently he bought a ranch, named it Tarzana, and started
subdividing it.

On 20 Aug 2021 19:25:33 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
<tednolan>) wrote:

>In article <ioadn8FhmkrU1@mid.individual.net>,
>Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>In article <m9tvhghmirdgb2qqsvh2m1g04qcokgj6gk@4ax.com>,
>>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On 20 Aug 2021 18:02:02 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
>>><tednolan>) wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <ddjvhg98bg9p8bm7h440kdruutu12n6d4j@4ax.com>,
>>>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 05:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 8:53:31 AM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are there "Five Fully Completed -- I Changed My Mind, Not Yet SFF
>>Series"?
>>>>>>> Every time I think of _The Gods of Riverworld_ I get so mad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I view that as a _far_ lesser offense than starting a series, and
>>>then failing
>>>>>>to deliver the planned conclusion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I mean, take the Tarzan novels. Edgar Rice Burroughs delivered _The Return
>>>>>>of Tarzan_ and _The Beasts of Tarzan_ after _Tarzan of the Apes_, so readers
>>>>>>were not left hanging by the plot elements left unresolved in the
>>>first novel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As the character was popular, he then delivered a number of episodic novels
>>>>>>with the same main character. He made money, and the readers enjoyed the
>>>>>>books. What's not to like?
>>>>>
>>>>>Also comic strips, movies, and (IIRC) merchandizing.
>>>>>
>>>>>This was not the usual practice at the time. The theory prevalent then
>>>>>was that the books, comic strips, and movies would /compete/ with each
>>>>>other for the same audience, and so he would make less money.
>>>>>
>>>>>Worked for him, though.
>>>>
>>>>Except he kept finding new ways to go broke iirc..
>>>
>>>I thought Burroughs ended up doing pretty well. Took him a while to
>>>get started but once he started selling stories he apparently was good
>>>with his money.
>>
>>Huh. Maybe I'm misremembering it, but I thought at least he bought and named
>>Tarzana CA and then lost it somehow.
>
>Hmm, nope nothing in WP at least.
>
>Looks like I'm wrong twice on this thread. Which I'm afraid is probably
>not a record.

You may be thinking of another famous storyteller of that era, L.
Frank Baum, who apparently had a rather appalling talent for going
broke.

In article <m250iglogcm9m0ao9l92emj2br2u8kf112@4ax.com>,
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 20 Aug 2021 19:25:33 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
><tednolan>) wrote:
>
>>In article <ioadn8FhmkrU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>>In article <m9tvhghmirdgb2qqsvh2m1g04qcokgj6gk@4ax.com>,
>>>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>On 20 Aug 2021 18:02:02 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
>>>><tednolan>) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <ddjvhg98bg9p8bm7h440kdruutu12n6d4j@4ax.com>,
>>>>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 05:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>>>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 8:53:31 AM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are there "Five Fully Completed -- I Changed My Mind, Not Yet SFF
>>>Series"?
>>>>>>>> Every time I think of _The Gods of Riverworld_ I get so mad.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I view that as a _far_ lesser offense than starting a series, and
>>>>then failing
>>>>>>>to deliver the planned conclusion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I mean, take the Tarzan novels. Edgar Rice Burroughs delivered _The Return
>>>>>>>of Tarzan_ and _The Beasts of Tarzan_ after _Tarzan of the Apes_,
>so readers
>>>>>>>were not left hanging by the plot elements left unresolved in the
>>>>first novel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>As the character was popular, he then delivered a number of
>episodic novels
>>>>>>>with the same main character. He made money, and the readers enjoyed the
>>>>>>>books. What's not to like?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Also comic strips, movies, and (IIRC) merchandizing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This was not the usual practice at the time. The theory prevalent then
>>>>>>was that the books, comic strips, and movies would /compete/ with each
>>>>>>other for the same audience, and so he would make less money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Worked for him, though.
>>>>>
>>>>>Except he kept finding new ways to go broke iirc..
>>>>
>>>>I thought Burroughs ended up doing pretty well. Took him a while to
>>>>get started but once he started selling stories he apparently was good
>>>>with his money.
>>>
>>>Huh. Maybe I'm misremembering it, but I thought at least he bought and named
>>>Tarzana CA and then lost it somehow.
>>
>>Hmm, nope nothing in WP at least.
>>
>>Looks like I'm wrong twice on this thread. Which I'm afraid is probably
>>not a record.
>
>You may be thinking of another famous storyteller of that era, L.
>Frank Baum, who apparently had a rather appalling talent for going
>broke.

Yeah, that's it I think.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 5:38:57 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <m250iglogcm9m0ao9...@4ax.com>,
> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

Re: early SF/pulp writers with money troubles:

ERB made a ton. Mark Twain, who got published in REAL BOOKS
with hardcovers and all, had a pile, but he went bankrupt!

https://bankruptcy.uslegal.com/profilesfamousbankruptcies/mark-twain/

He wrote and lectured his way out of debt.

> >You may be thinking of another famous storyteller of that era, L.
> >Frank Baum, who apparently had a rather appalling talent for going
> >broke.
> Yeah, that's it I think.
> --

Has anyone watched the "American Experience" program on Baum?
Any good? I read a bucketful of Oz books as a lad.

--
Kevin R

On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 16:51:08 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 20 Aug 2021 19:25:33 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
><tednolan>) wrote:
>
>>In article <ioadn8FhmkrU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>>In article <m9tvhghmirdgb2qqsvh2m1g04qcokgj6gk@4ax.com>,
>>>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>On 20 Aug 2021 18:02:02 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
>>>><tednolan>) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <ddjvhg98bg9p8bm7h440kdruutu12n6d4j@4ax.com>,
>>>>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 05:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>>>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 8:53:31 AM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are there "Five Fully Completed -- I Changed My Mind, Not Yet SFF
>>>Series"?
>>>>>>>> Every time I think of _The Gods of Riverworld_ I get so mad.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I view that as a _far_ lesser offense than starting a series, and
>>>>then failing
>>>>>>>to deliver the planned conclusion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I mean, take the Tarzan novels. Edgar Rice Burroughs delivered _The Return
>>>>>>>of Tarzan_ and _The Beasts of Tarzan_ after _Tarzan of the Apes_, so readers
>>>>>>>were not left hanging by the plot elements left unresolved in the
>>>>first novel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>As the character was popular, he then delivered a number of episodic novels
>>>>>>>with the same main character. He made money, and the readers enjoyed the
>>>>>>>books. What's not to like?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Also comic strips, movies, and (IIRC) merchandizing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This was not the usual practice at the time. The theory prevalent then
>>>>>>was that the books, comic strips, and movies would /compete/ with each
>>>>>>other for the same audience, and so he would make less money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Worked for him, though.
>>>>>
>>>>>Except he kept finding new ways to go broke iirc..
>>>>
>>>>I thought Burroughs ended up doing pretty well. Took him a while to
>>>>get started but once he started selling stories he apparently was good
>>>>with his money.
>>>
>>>Huh. Maybe I'm misremembering it, but I thought at least he bought and named
>>>Tarzana CA and then lost it somehow.
>>
>>Hmm, nope nothing in WP at least.
>>
>>Looks like I'm wrong twice on this thread. Which I'm afraid is probably
>>not a record.
>
>You may be thinking of another famous storyteller of that era, L.
>Frank Baum, who apparently had a rather appalling talent for going
>broke.

Sounds like a cousin to my talent of snatching defeat from the jaws of
victory.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 10:00:57 -0600, David Johnston
<davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 2021-08-16 7:26 a.m., Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 8/15/2021 10:45 PM, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 12:29:44 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 8/13/2021 8:34 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>> Five Fully Completed SFF Series
>>>>> https://www.tor.com/2021/08/13/five-fully-completed-sff-series/
>>>> Zero for five here. There are so many completed series that could be
>>>> mentioned here though: Tarzan of the Apes, The Dahak series by David
>>>> Weber, The Narnia series, The Ancillary Justice series by Ann Leckie,
>>>> etc.
>>>
>>> The Narnia series is an interesting example. It might have seemed to be
>>> complete to its author, but a member of my SF discussion group said that
>>> when her grade-school age daughter finished reading the Narnia stories it
>>> was immediately obvious to her that there was a gaping hole in the
>>> narrative
>>> with respect to the fate of Susan. She spoke of writing Susan's story
>>> herself.
>>> I have since found that this point of view is not uncommon. I seem to
>>> recall
>>> reading somewhere that the Lewis estate is opposed to authorizing any
>>> stories addressing this. Is there any good fan-fiction about Susan
>>> Pevensie?
>>> When will it enter the public domain? Susan was young enough during
>>> World War 2 that she could still be alive today.
>>>
>> I thought I remembered there being something in the last book about how
>> Susan had basically grown up, moved on and lapsed in her faith in Aslan.
>>
>>
>
>Yeah. She got interested in cosmetics and fashion so she's Hell-bound
>now.

Being distracted by wordly things has always been regarded as
problematic.

Lewis is teaching a lesson here, as always in Narnia.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) wrote in
news:sf9v7v$1oki$1@usenet.csail.mit.edu:

> In article <sf8ui5$ia$2@dont-email.me>,
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>>On 8/13/2021 8:34 AM, James Nicoll wrote:

>>> Five Fully Completed SFF Series
>>> https://www.tor.com/2021/08/13/five-fully-completed-sff-series/

>>Zero for five here.

I read two or three of the Marks books, long ago.

>> There are so many completed series that could be
>>mentioned here though: Tarzan of the Apes, The Dahak series by David
>>Weber, The Narnia series, The Ancillary Justice series by Ann Leckie,
>>etc.

> Yup. I didn't know any of James's list (although I did recognize at
> least some of them). A lot hangs on how you define "series", because
> there are a lot of writers -- like Norton and L'Engle -- who were
> doing what we'd now think of as series before series became a thing
> (at least in trade publishing). And, the Herbert family
> notwithstanding, you can pretty much assume that any series is
> complete if the author is deceased, although it might not be
> satisfactorily finished.

This seems to set up a couple of criteria. A series may be a series
even if not formally recognised by, say, publishers. And a dead
author's series is finished. (I'd call the first a no-brainer and
the second untrue, but that's not actually my point here.)

> So the ones that come to mind most immediately include Julian May's
> Saga of Pliocene Exile, /Intervention/, and Galactic Milieu Trilogy,
> taken as a unit; Madeleine L'Engle's interconnected YA series (I don't
> know if there is a collective name);

Dead authors. Rearranging a bit:

> Norton
> managed to get four books out of the story of Krip Vorlund and Maelen
> of Yiktor, which is just a minor story arc in the much broader Free
> Traders setting.[1] And obviously there's Discworld.
>

Dead authors. But in between:

> Mercedes Lackey's four-book
> series with dragons set in ancient Egypt (ditto about a collective
> name) from back when she was doing two titles a year for DAW; Lackey's
> "Bardic Voices" series, which seemed to peter out (I guess she got to
> the end of that contract and Baen didn't pick up any more).

Do you know something the ISFDB, Wikipedia and the EoSF don't know?

(Yes, I'm serious. I was surprised enough by that paragraph to go
check all three.)

Joe Bernstein

--
Joe Bernstein, writer <Kdeurama@gmail.com>

On 21/08/21 7:25 am, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
snip
>
> Looks like I'm wrong twice on this thread. Which I'm afraid is probably
> not a record.
>

It would be for Dimwire if he had posted three posts in a thread.

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 12:29:44 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 8/13/2021 8:34 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> > Five Fully Completed SFF Series
> > https://www.tor.com/2021/08/13/five-fully-completed-sff-series/
> Zero for five here. There are so many completed series that could be
> mentioned here though: Tarzan of the Apes, The Dahak series by David
> Weber, The Narnia series, The Ancillary Justice series by Ann Leckie, etc.

I'm not at all certain that the Ancillary series is over. After all, they had just started the Conclave in the in-Universe book Provenance. Perhaps there will be further adventures, perhaps there will be other books featuring different characters.

Brian

On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 6:51:15 AM UTC+10, J. Clarke wrote:
> On 20 Aug 2021 19:25:33 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
> <tednolan>) wrote:
>
> >In article <ioadn8...@mid.individual.net>,
> >Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
> >>In article <m9tvhghmirdgb2qqs...@4ax.com>,
> >>J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>On 20 Aug 2021 18:02:02 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
> >>><tednolan>) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>In article <ddjvhg98bg9p8bm7h...@4ax.com>,
> >>>>Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 05:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> >>>>><jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 8:53:31 AM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Are there "Five Fully Completed -- I Changed My Mind, Not Yet SFF
> >>Series"?
> >>>>>>> Every time I think of _The Gods of Riverworld_ I get so mad.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I view that as a _far_ lesser offense than starting a series, and
> >>>then failing
> >>>>>>to deliver the planned conclusion.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I mean, take the Tarzan novels. Edgar Rice Burroughs delivered _The Return
> >>>>>>of Tarzan_ and _The Beasts of Tarzan_ after _Tarzan of the Apes_, so readers
> >>>>>>were not left hanging by the plot elements left unresolved in the
> >>>first novel.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>As the character was popular, he then delivered a number of episodic novels
> >>>>>>with the same main character. He made money, and the readers enjoyed the
> >>>>>>books. What's not to like?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Also comic strips, movies, and (IIRC) merchandizing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>This was not the usual practice at the time. The theory prevalent then
> >>>>>was that the books, comic strips, and movies would /compete/ with each
> >>>>>other for the same audience, and so he would make less money.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Worked for him, though.
> >>>>
> >>>>Except he kept finding new ways to go broke iirc..
> >>>
> >>>I thought Burroughs ended up doing pretty well. Took him a while to
> >>>get started but once he started selling stories he apparently was good
> >>>with his money.
> >>
> >>Huh. Maybe I'm misremembering it, but I thought at least he bought and named
> >>Tarzana CA and then lost it somehow.
> >
> >Hmm, nope nothing in WP at least.
> >
> >Looks like I'm wrong twice on this thread. Which I'm afraid is probably
> >not a record.
> You may be thinking of another famous storyteller of that era, L.
> Frank Baum, who apparently had a rather appalling talent for going
> broke.

I read an LFB biography a while back. Once his popularity took off, each Oz book earned him roughly $20k, at a time when the average US wage was about $400/year.

His problem was that he believed his fortune was to be made from musicals/theatre based on his work, so he'd invest all his money into Oz stageshow productions which no-one went to see. Rinse and repeat.

Some of the Oz books weren't even intended to BE Oz books but he (or his publishers) knew that his non-Oz books earned far less, so they were shoe-horned into Oz because he needed the money. Rinkitink is one obvious example, but there are one or two others.

-Moriarty