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interests / alt.toys.transformers / Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus Prime

SubjectAuthor
* Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus PrimeGustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats
`* Re: Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus PrimeZobovor
 `* Re: Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus PrimeGustavo Wombat
  `* Re: Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus PrimeZobovor
   `- Re: Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus PrimeGustavo Wombat

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Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus Prime

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Subject: Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus Prime
From: pork.not...@gmail.com (Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats)
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 by: Gustavo Wombat, of t - Fri, 13 May 2022 20:13 UTC

The G2 Optimus Prime mold has been a fan favorite for decades, and is probably one of the best Transformers molds ever created.

Seriously, if I were to list my top 10 molds, I am 100% certain it would be there.

G2 Laser Optimus Prime
Universe 2.0 Silverbolt
Universe 2.0 Inferno
BW Ultra Optimus Primal
Cybertron Downshift
Cybertron Voyager Starscream
Siege Sideswipe

And then I pause, pondering the next three, as we go from a bunch of truly exceptional toys to merely excellent toys. Will Legacy Blaster remain beloved, or is it a passing fancy? How do I feel about putting a Masterpiece into that set with MP-10? Which Transmetal strikes my fancy the most or are they simply an amazing line of consistently merely excellent toys? Does Downshift really belong there? Masterpiece Inferno, who is a near perfect puzzle?

Anyhoo, the prospect of Legacy Laser Optimus Prime has a lot to live up to, and it really cannot help but be measured against the original, and against a hypothetical downsized original that fits the modern scales.

I don't think the Legacy toy hits the mark. It's a fine toy, with lots of little issues, none disqualifying, but it doesn't measure up.

The cab/robot portion lacks the simplicity of the original. Toys don't have to be simple, but the added complexity doesn't really make for a better toy in the end. And they aren't doing anything with the added complexity. No more of the vehicle mode ends up as integral parts of the robot mode, it's just a lot more steps to get the fake chest in place. The original's arms were part of the vehicle mode, where here they are mostly hidden inside the vehicle.

Perhaps the best example of the needless complexity is this: the rocket launchers on his robot shoulders now lift, and reveal... rocket launchers. Just ... why?

The arms are thin and slightly spindley. They lack the powerful look of the original, and are so thin that sacrifices are made with the hands leaving them just feeling cheap. There is wrist rotation though, so that *is* an improvement.

I'll add the ankle tilts as an improvement too.

There's a lot more molded detail in the robot mode, and the plastic used brings out all those details. It's busy and makes him look dingy?

And, of course, we get the same basic legs as Earthrise, which were borrowed from Siege, so we have flaps that do nothing, as assets were changed minimally. I assume every Optimus will have these legs going forward, and this amuses me.

In truck mode, the windows reveal lots and lots of robot parts crammed into place. Because they are medium blue translucent plastic with red parts behind them, they look very dark.

In robot mode, the chest windows reveal parts of the Matrix, and a lot of red, again giving it a dark and kind of dingy look when seen through the clear blue plastic.

The trailer is now very short, which I don't mind, but the weapons platform is underwhelming. The original had bellows that launched missiles, spring-launched missiles, and pressure fired disks, and was lots of fun. This new one just has a small gun with tiny barrels on a tower. It's a let down, even for what it is -- Optimus needs some firepower, even pretend firepower that doesn't launch.

He also doesn't have a handgun. We get a sword, and a fan.

The light piping on the eyes simply pipes in darkness. The original toy was one of the earlier, and best uses of light piping (you might not like an Optimus with the entire back of his head in clear plastic, but those eyes lit up under basically any light), and here the eyes are just dead, vacant holes. Dead light piping would have been great for the Dead Optimus toy, by the way, as it is impressively lifeless.

The deco is ... not objectively bad. The faded nose of the truck is replaced by a flame deco borrowed from the Movieverse, with red flames on a black cab. I think the result is too dark, especially with the dark windows packed with robot bits, but it gives the initial impression of Laser Optimus Prime.

I like the change to the flames, by the way -- I've never really loved the all-too-abrupt gradient.

The trailer is a dark, gunmetal plastic color, lacking any pictures of Optimus Prime burning down a forest. Presumably, there will be third party stickers that remedy this.

Other than being too dark, which I blame on the windows, it's not bad looking. I might paint the insides of the windows silver, to capture the light better and brighten up the toy. The clear windows showing off the red interior of the cab (at a respectful distance, rather than having the robot parts crammed against the windows) in the original toy did wonders at changing how the toy looked.

Robot mode looks busy. They are trying a new gray color plastic, with a cooler gray and a level of gloss that looks like paint. It's nice, but... inauthentic. The frame around the faux-chest-windows is painted silver, along with the shoulder faux-rocket-launchers. He has a blue stomach and toes. It's the Laser Optimus color scheme, just busier and a little off.

The blue stomach is very weird, as it's a fake blue stomach panel. Vestigial remains of the original toy design. (I never understood why there was so much black on the original, and only tiny blue accents for head, hands, feet and abs)

All these complaints are pretty minor, and comparing a toy against its long-lost predecessor. On its own, it's a perfectly fine toy, not as good as Earthrise or Siege Optimus, but fine.

I would have much rather had them just borrow the transformation scheme of the original toy, and scale it down so it is the same size as the recent Optimuses. I wish newer fans got to experience the simple beauty of the original toy, even if the trailer was neutered beyond belief, and made shorter, and didn't advertise Optimus setting forests on fire.

But overall, it's ok. I'm not sure I would buy this again as Scourge, but I would definitely buy it as Toxitron (where the busy level of detailing would actually really benefit the character).

The lack of rifle sucks.

Re: Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus Prime

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Subject: Re: Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus Prime
From: zmf...@aol.com (Zobovor)
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 by: Zobovor - Fri, 13 May 2022 23:31 UTC

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 2:13:55 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> Seriously, if I were to list my top 10 molds, I am 100% certain it would be there.

It was honestly a phenomenal toy, especially the original release with all the bell and whistles. Subsequent versions without the electronic gimmick were a little less phenomenal.

> The cab/robot portion lacks the simplicity of the original. Toys don't have to be simple, but the added complexity doesn't really make for a better toy in the end. And they aren't doing anything with the added complexity. No more of the vehicle mode ends up as integral parts of the robot mode, it's just a lot more steps to get the fake chest in place. The original's arms were part of the vehicle mode, where here they are mostly hidden inside the vehicle.

I wonder if they were looking at the fact that most of Prime's undercarriage robot mode is plainly visible, and they were trying to remedy that. You're right... you go through a hell of a lot of steps to just get to the same design, when the G2 toy did it cleaner and neater, with far less hassle.

> Perhaps the best example of the needless complexity is this: the rocket launchers on his robot shoulders now lift, and reveal... rocket launchers. Just ... why?

I mean, it adds a little play value, instead of just being screw holes. And, for what it's worth, I have always imagined those parts as blasters or something on the G2 toy.

> The arms are thin and slightly spindley. They lack the powerful look of the original, and are so thin that sacrifices are made with the hands leaving them just feeling cheap. There is wrist rotation though, so that *is* an improvement.

I dislike how the shoulder towers don't feel integrated. They're not part of the arms any longer. They're just... there.

> The trailer is now very short, which I don't mind, but the weapons platform is underwhelming. The original had bellows that launched missiles, spring-launched missiles, and pressure fired disks, and was lots of fun. This new one just has a small gun with tiny barrels on a tower. It's a let down, even for what it is -- Optimus needs some firepower, even pretend firepower that doesn't launch.
They should have maybe saved this idea for a Commander-class toy, so they could have poured more into the design and added more gimmicks. But, what's done is done.
> I like the change to the flames, by the way -- I've never really loved the all-too-abrupt gradient.

It doesn't bother me. I actually had to ask myself, "Wait, was the G2 toy like this?" and had to check.

> The trailer is a dark, gunmetal plastic color, lacking any pictures of Optimus Prime burning down a forest. Presumably, there will be third party stickers that remedy this.

We can only hope!
> The blue stomach is very weird, as it's a fake blue stomach panel. Vestigial remains of the original toy design. (I never understood why there was so much black on the original, and only tiny blue accents for head, hands, feet and abs)

It was just a different look. This was an era before Optimus Prime had really become an iconic-looking character, and Hasbro was willing to play with his design a bit more. We'd just gotten the Combat Hero version with McDonald's stripes on the hood, and the Go-Bot race car, and there was a dump truck version in the works. Optimus was whatever Hasbro said he was that year.
> I would have much rather had them just borrow the transformation scheme of the original toy, and scale it down so it is the same size as the recent Optimuses.

Honestly, part of the appeal of the original G2 toy was that it was the biggest Optimus we'd gotten up to that point. Not quite as tall as the Megatron tank, but easily the second-tallest toy in the G2 range.

> But overall, it's ok. I'm not sure I would buy this again as Scourge, but I would definitely buy it as Toxitron (where the busy level of detailing would actually really benefit the character).

My thinking is that RiD Scourge is an inevitability, and Toxitron could theoretically happen. I'd buy them both, for sure.

Zob (digital units crossed)

Re: Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus Prime

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From: gustavow...@yahoo.com (Gustavo Wombat)
Newsgroups: alt.toys.transformers
Subject: Re: Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus Prime
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 03:36:59 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Gustavo Wombat - Sun, 15 May 2022 03:36 UTC

Zobovor <zmfts@aol.com> wrote:
> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 2:13:55 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
>
>> Seriously, if I were to list my top 10 molds, I am 100% certain it would be there.
>
> It was honestly a phenomenal toy, especially the original release with
> all the bell and whistles. Subsequent versions without the electronic
> gimmick were a little less phenomenal.
>
>> The cab/robot portion lacks the simplicity of the original. Toys don't
>> have to be simple, but the added complexity doesn't really make for a
>> better toy in the end. And they aren't doing anything with the added
>> complexity. No more of the vehicle mode ends up as integral parts of the
>> robot mode, it's just a lot more steps to get the fake chest in place.
>> The original's arms were part of the vehicle mode, where here they are
>> mostly hidden inside the vehicle.
>
> I wonder if they were looking at the fact that most of Prime's
> undercarriage robot mode is plainly visible, and they were trying to
> remedy that. You're right... you go through a hell of a lot of steps to
> just get to the same design, when the G2 toy did it cleaner and neater,
> with far less hassle.
>
>> Perhaps the best example of the needless complexity is this: the rocket
>> launchers on his robot shoulders now lift, and reveal... rocket launchers. Just ... why?
>
> I mean, it adds a little play value, instead of just being screw holes.
> And, for what it's worth, I have always imagined those parts as blasters
> or something on the G2 toy.

They clearly were missile launchers for screws. Everything about them looks
like a weapon launch thing, except with screw heads inside. So it launches
screws.

>> The arms are thin and slightly spindley. They lack the powerful look of
>> the original, and are so thin that sacrifices are made with the hands
>> leaving them just feeling cheap. There is wrist rotation though, so that
>> *is* an improvement.
>
> I dislike how the shoulder towers don't feel integrated. They're not
> part of the arms any longer. They're just... there.

Playing around with him more, I’ve grown to dislike the shoulder towers for
the same reason. If he’s in a lunging pose, you cannot angle where the
missile pods point.

>
>> The trailer is now very short, which I don't mind, but the weapons
>> platform is underwhelming. The original had bellows that launched missiles,
>> spring-launched missiles, and pressure fired disks, and was lots of fun.
>> This new one just has a small gun with tiny barrels on a tower. It's a
>> let down, even for what it is -- Optimus needs some firepower, even
>> pretend firepower that doesn't launch.
>
> They should have maybe saved this idea for a Commander-class toy, so they
> could have poured more into the design and added more gimmicks. But,
> what's done is done.
>
>> I like the change to the flames, by the way -- I've never really loved
>> the all-too-abrupt gradient.
>
> It doesn't bother me. I actually had to ask myself, "Wait, was the G2
> toy like this?" and had to check.

Part of me wishes they leaned into Movieverse more and used blue flames.
Less authentic, sure, but I think it would have been better looking. Or
gone faux-G1 and left the cab red. (Maybe red with silver flames?)

>> The trailer is a dark, gunmetal plastic color, lacking any pictures of
>> Optimus Prime burning down a forest. Presumably, there will be third
>> party stickers that remedy this.
>
> We can only hope!
>
>> The blue stomach is very weird, as it's a fake blue stomach panel.
>> Vestigial remains of the original toy design. (I never understood why
>> there was so much black on the original, and only tiny blue accents for
>> head, hands, feet and abs)
>
> It was just a different look. This was an era before Optimus Prime had
> really become an iconic-looking character, and Hasbro was willing to play
> with his design a bit more. We'd just gotten the Combat Hero version
> with McDonald's stripes on the hood, and the Go-Bot race car, and there
> was a dump truck version in the works. Optimus was whatever Hasbro said
> he was that year.
>
>> I would have much rather had them just borrow the transformation scheme
>> of the original toy, and scale it down so it is the same size as the recent Optimuses.

I don’t think he needs the blue belly, hands or toes. He might have needed
the chest to be red if they cut that though. He said “Optimus Prime” in
enough spots that it would have been clear even without the blue hands and
toes.

> Honestly, part of the appeal of the original G2 toy was that it was the
> biggest Optimus we'd gotten up to that point. Not quite as tall as the
> Megatron tank, but easily the second-tallest toy in the G2 range.

I thought the appeal was that he had amazing articulation, solid joints,
and light up effects. I got mine during the early Beast Era, and he didn’t
seem much larger than Ultra Optimus Primal, though, so it might have just
been what I got at the time affecting my views.

Now that they are getting into keeping things on scale though… the original
is just way too large.

>> But overall, it's ok. I'm not sure I would buy this again as Scourge,
>> but I would definitely buy it as Toxitron (where the busy level of
>> detailing would actually really benefit the character).
>
> My thinking is that RiD Scourge is an inevitability, and Toxitron could
> theoretically happen. I'd buy them both, for sure.
>
>
> Zob (digital units crossed)
>

Re: Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus Prime

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Subject: Re: Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus Prime
From: zmf...@aol.com (Zobovor)
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 by: Zobovor - Sun, 15 May 2022 03:53 UTC

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 9:37:00 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> I got mine during the early Beast Era, and he didn’t
> seem much larger than Ultra Optimus Primal, though, so it might have just
> been what I got at the time affecting my views.

Could be. The rest of the 1995 offering was Laser Cycles and Cyberjets and Go-Bots, all tiny toys. So Laser Optimus was big during a time when we simply weren't getting big Transformers.

> Now that they are getting into keeping things on scale though… the original
> is just way too large.

Prime was all over the place during G2. Without any established ficiton appearances, I can only assume a bigger Prime toy meant he got a bigger body. He was finally able to take on Megatron, who was by far the biggest toy in the G2 range.

Zob (hopes we get more G2 tributes in the future)

Re: Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus Prime

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From: gustavow...@yahoo.com (Gustavo Wombat)
Newsgroups: alt.toys.transformers
Subject: Re: Gustavo mutters about Legacy Laser Optimus Prime
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 07:38:10 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Gustavo Wombat - Sun, 15 May 2022 07:38 UTC

Zobovor <zmfts@aol.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 9:37:00 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the
> Seattle Wombats wrote:
>
>> I got mine during the early Beast Era, and he didn’t
>> seem much larger than Ultra Optimus Primal, though, so it might have just
>> been what I got at the time affecting my views.
>
> Could be. The rest of the 1995 offering was Laser Cycles and Cyberjets
> and Go-Bots, all tiny toys. So Laser Optimus was big during a time when
> we simply weren't getting big Transformers.
>
>> Now that they are getting into keeping things on scale though… the original
>> is just way too large.
>
> Prime was all over the place during G2. Without any established ficiton
> appearances, I can only assume a bigger Prime toy meant he got a bigger
> body. He was finally able to take on Megatron, who was by far the
> biggest toy in the G2 range.
>
>
> Zob (hopes we get more G2 tributes in the future)
>

Just realized that since the legs are the same, we can mix and match
trailers between Siege, Earthrise and Legacy. Then I realized the legs are
not the same, and that the hole for the trailer connector moved, but so
long as Siege Nemesis Prime doesn’t want to turn, it works … just a super
wide turn.

Alas, Armada Supercon Optimus Prime has a post sticking up, rather than a
socket, so that doesn’t work, but we cannot really expect 20 year
compatibility.

I hope that when they make the next Optimus with trailer, they keep the
trailers compatible-ish.

And another thing I dislike about Legacy Prime — they use a dark gray
rather than black. Just seems dingy and doesn’t match the black paint on
the nose. Weirdly, some of that dark gray is paint.

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