On 2021-08-20 11:47 a.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in
> news:sfn31a$f44$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 20/08/21 5:13 am, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1dv1480l6u8rru8l3kg@4ax.com:
>> snip
>>>>
>>>> Trump campaigned, in part, on the promise to "Make America
>>>> Grovel Again".
>>>
>>> And Biden('s puppeteers) campaigned on the promise to destroy
>>> America.
>>>>
>>>> He appears to have succeeded.
>>>
>>> Biden('s puppeteers) certainly are succeeding.
>>
>> Do you have any statistics to support that claim because as far
>> as I can tell there are still many Trump supporters alive and
>> vocal? Where is the promised violence? Why aren't the
>> re-education camps achieving their objectives?
>
> Biden('s puppeteers) have unconditionally surrended to the Taliban.

LOL!

> There are between 10,000 and 40,000 Americans trapped in the coutry
> as hostages, and the administration has no intention of doing
> anything to get them out. Insider reports from the airport in Kabul

"Insiders"!

> say that US military (the officers, the enelisted are ready to
> mutity) are actively trying to prevent British troops from rescuing
> their countrymen and allies and bring them to the airport for
> evacuation.

LOL!

>
> It is very clear this was all *by* *intent*.
>
> Biden('s puppeteers) ran on a platform of destroying American, and
> they're succeeding.

Seek mental help.

On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 11:11:10 -0400, Alan Baker
<notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

>On 2021-08-20 11:47 a.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in
>> news:sfn31a$f44$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 20/08/21 5:13 am, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>>> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1dv1480l6u8rru8l3kg@4ax.com:
>>> snip
>>>>>
>>>>> Trump campaigned, in part, on the promise to "Make America
>>>>> Grovel Again".
>>>>
>>>> And Biden('s puppeteers) campaigned on the promise to destroy
>>>> America.
>>>>>
>>>>> He appears to have succeeded.
>>>>
>>>> Biden('s puppeteers) certainly are succeeding.
>>>
>>> Do you have any statistics to support that claim because as far
>>> as I can tell there are still many Trump supporters alive and
>>> vocal? Where is the promised violence? Why aren't the
>>> re-education camps achieving their objectives?
>>
>> Biden('s puppeteers) have unconditionally surrended to the Taliban.
>
>LOL!
>
>> There are between 10,000 and 40,000 Americans trapped in the coutry
>> as hostages, and the administration has no intention of doing
>> anything to get them out. Insider reports from the airport in Kabul
>
>"Insiders"!
>
>> say that US military (the officers, the enelisted are ready to
>> mutity) are actively trying to prevent British troops from rescuing
>> their countrymen and allies and bring them to the airport for
>> evacuation.
>
>LOL!
>
>>
>> It is very clear this was all *by* *intent*.
>>
>> Biden('s puppeteers) ran on a platform of destroying American, and
>> they're succeeding.
>
>Seek mental help.

He's projecting what Trump would have done onto Biden. And upset that
Biden is actually recueing people, something Trump would never have
done.

Would that /Trump/ had had handlers! They might have kept him from
negotiating with terrorists, in defiance of US policy.

The correctness of that policy become clearer every day.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On 22/08/21 3:11 am, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-08-20 11:47 a.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in
>> news:sfn31a$f44$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 20/08/21 5:13 am, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>>> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1dv1480l6u8rru8l3kg@4ax.com:
>>> snip
>>>>>
>>>>> Trump campaigned, in part, on the promise to "Make America
>>>>> Grovel Again".
>>>>
>>>> And Biden('s puppeteers) campaigned on the promise to destroy
>>>> America.
>>>>>
>>>>> He appears to have succeeded.
>>>>
>>>> Biden('s puppeteers) certainly are succeeding.
>>>
>>> Do you have any statistics to support that claim because as far
>>> as I can tell there are still many Trump supporters alive and
>>> vocal? Where is the promised violence? Why aren't the
>>> re-education camps achieving their objectives?
>>
>> Biden('s puppeteers) have unconditionally surrended to the Taliban.
>
> LOL!

The US military ran away from Baghram airport at 3 in the morning in
late June without informing the puppet Afghani government leaving behind
3.5 million objects, all itemised by the departing military. Tens of
thousands of water bottles, energy drinks, military ready-made meals,
thousands of civilian vehicles, hundreds of armoured vehicles, small
weapons and ammunition.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/06/afghan-anger-over-uss-sudden-silent-bagram-departure

On 2021-08-21 7:09 p.m., Titus G wrote:
> On 22/08/21 3:11 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-08-20 11:47 a.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in
>>> news:sfn31a$f44$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 20/08/21 5:13 am, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>>>> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1dv1480l6u8rru8l3kg@4ax.com:
>>>> snip
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trump campaigned, in part, on the promise to "Make America
>>>>>> Grovel Again".
>>>>>
>>>>> And Biden('s puppeteers) campaigned on the promise to destroy
>>>>> America.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He appears to have succeeded.
>>>>>
>>>>> Biden('s puppeteers) certainly are succeeding.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have any statistics to support that claim because as far
>>>> as I can tell there are still many Trump supporters alive and
>>>> vocal? Where is the promised violence? Why aren't the
>>>> re-education camps achieving their objectives?
>>>
>>> Biden('s puppeteers) have unconditionally surrended to the Taliban.
>>
>> LOL!
>
> The US military ran away from Baghram airport at 3 in the morning in
> late June without informing the puppet Afghani government leaving behind
> 3.5 million objects, all itemised by the departing military. Tens of
> thousands of water bottles, energy drinks, military ready-made meals,
> thousands of civilian vehicles, hundreds of armoured vehicles, small
> weapons and ammunition.
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/06/afghan-anger-over-uss-sudden-silent-bagram-departure
>

'Jan. 15, 2021, at 10:30 a.m.

Acting Defense Secretary Christopher Miller announced Friday the U.S.
had withdrawn forces in Iraq and Afghanistan down to 2,500 in each
conflict zone, following through on an unusual major policy shift
announced during a lame duck period and indicating that the
circumstances on the ground will likely create problems for the incoming
Biden administration.'

<https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2021-01-15/trump-administration-confirms-withdrawals-from-iraq-afghanistan-days-before-inauguration>

'Critics of the plan, including those who spent most of their careers in
Afghanistan and neighboring countries, say it ignores the deteriorating
security situation on the ground as the Taliban continues to lay waste
to fledgling local forces whose capabilities have diminished with fewer
U.S. resources to back them up.'

On Sun, 22 Aug 2021 09:30:47 -0400, Alan Baker
<notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

>On 2021-08-21 7:09 p.m., Titus G wrote:
>> On 22/08/21 3:11 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-20 11:47 a.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in
>>>> news:sfn31a$f44$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> On 20/08/21 5:13 am, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>>> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1dv1480l6u8rru8l3kg@4ax.com:
>>>>> snip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trump campaigned, in part, on the promise to "Make America
>>>>>>> Grovel Again".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And Biden('s puppeteers) campaigned on the promise to destroy
>>>>>> America.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He appears to have succeeded.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Biden('s puppeteers) certainly are succeeding.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have any statistics to support that claim because as far
>>>>> as I can tell there are still many Trump supporters alive and
>>>>> vocal? Where is the promised violence? Why aren't the
>>>>> re-education camps achieving their objectives?
>>>>
>>>> Biden('s puppeteers) have unconditionally surrended to the Taliban.
>>>
>>> LOL!
>>
>> The US military ran away from Baghram airport at 3 in the morning in
>> late June without informing the puppet Afghani government leaving behind
>> 3.5 million objects, all itemised by the departing military. Tens of
>> thousands of water bottles, energy drinks, military ready-made meals,
>> thousands of civilian vehicles, hundreds of armoured vehicles, small
>> weapons and ammunition.
>> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/06/afghan-anger-over-uss-sudden-silent-bagram-departure
>>
>
>'Jan. 15, 2021, at 10:30 a.m.
>
>Acting Defense Secretary Christopher Miller announced Friday the U.S.
>had withdrawn forces in Iraq and Afghanistan down to 2,500 in each
>conflict zone, following through on an unusual major policy shift
>announced during a lame duck period and indicating that the
>circumstances on the ground will likely create problems for the incoming
>Biden administration.'
>
><https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2021-01-15/trump-administration-confirms-withdrawals-from-iraq-afghanistan-days-before-inauguration>

Well, what do you expect from Trump?

>'Critics of the plan, including those who spent most of their careers in
>Afghanistan and neighboring countries, say it ignores the deteriorating
>security situation on the ground as the Taliban continues to lay waste
>to fledgling local forces whose capabilities have diminished with fewer
>U.S. resources to back them up.'

It is very interesting that, after 20 years of "nation building", the
Afghan forces are "fledglings".

And building a local military that depends on US resources is /not/ a
form of "nation building". It is a form of "dependency making".

So, making them an actual colony no longer being acceptable, the goal
was to make them a dependency?
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 8:11:59 PM UTC-6, Titus G wrote:
> Why aren't the re-education camps achieving their
> objectives?

Because the human spirit is indomitable! Try to brainwash those
who cherish the flame of liberty in their hearts, and they will just
become more determined to fight Communist enslavement!

Oh, sorry, these were nonexistent Democratic re-education camps.

They're obviously not accomplishing their objectives because they
don't exist!

But in any case, with the recent news of an explosion at Kabul
airport that cost the lives of several American servicemen, the
decision to withdraw from Afghanistan _now_ looks like a
strategic masterstroke, even though I thought it was a bad idea
all along.

Apparently, left to themselves, the Taliban and ISIS are going to
fight a war with each other, thus, with any luck, ridding the world
of two nuisances. Now if we could only get Russia and China to
do the same - but it seems like they're best buddies right now,
although one YouTube news channel from India seems to harbor
hopes otherwise.

John Savard

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 4:26:09 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 8:11:59 PM UTC-6, Titus G wrote:
> > Why aren't the re-education camps achieving their
> > objectives?
> Because the human spirit is indomitable! Try to brainwash those
> who cherish the flame of liberty in their hearts, and they will just
> become more determined to fight Communist enslavement!
>
> Oh, sorry, these were nonexistent Democratic re-education camps.
>
> They're obviously not accomplishing their objectives because they
> don't exist!
>
> But in any case, with the recent news of an explosion at Kabul
> airport that cost the lives of several American servicemen, the
> decision to withdraw from Afghanistan _now_ looks like a
> strategic masterstroke, even though I thought it was a bad idea
> all along.
>
> Apparently, left to themselves, the Taliban and ISIS are going to
> fight a war with each other, thus, with any luck, ridding the world
> of two nuisances. Now if we could only get Russia and China to
> do the same - but it seems like they're best buddies right now,
> although one YouTube news channel from India seems to harbor
> hopes otherwise.
>

I'm very glad wishing can't be depended on. Wars between large, or
even great powers have a tendency to get out of hand and drag others
into the fray. War between two nuclear powers is something really
to be avoided, if possible.
--
Kevin R

On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:13:14 AM UTC+10, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1d...@4ax.com:
> > A Republican, I
> > might add, who showed us a few years later had /no/ concept of
> > "planning".
> You mean like the planning that went into withdrawing US troops
> with no warning to the tens of thousands of Americans in the
> country, who are now, in every sense of the word, hostages of
> terrorists?
>
Well apart from the fact that there was an agreement to withdraw signed in Feb 2020...
and here's a a presidential address from July 8
"THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. Earlier today, I was briefed by our senior military and national security leaders on the status of the drawdown of U..S. forces and allied forces in Afghanistan.

When I announced our drawdown in April, I said we would be out by September, and we’re on track to meet that target.

Our military mission in Afghanistan will conclude on August 31st."

Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was sworn in...

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 11:18:20 PM UTC-6, Kevrob wrote:
> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 4:26:09 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:

> > Apparently, left to themselves, the Taliban and ISIS are going to
> > fight a war with each other, thus, with any luck, ridding the world
> > of two nuisances. Now if we could only get Russia and China to
> > do the same - but it seems like they're best buddies right now,
> > although one YouTube news channel from India seems to harbor
> > hopes otherwise.

> I'm very glad wishing can't be depended on. Wars between large, or
> even great powers have a tendency to get out of hand and drag others
> into the fray. War between two nuclear powers is something really
> to be avoided, if possible.

That's true, but especially a war between the United States and either
Russia or China is to be avoided. China and Russia destroying each
other would certainly be _one_ way to avoid that, but indeed not the
most desirable. Even Allan Drury's book, _The Promise of Joy_, had
Japan being destroyed by fallout blowing from China (perhaps to
eliminate the _other_ threatening competitor of the U.S.?).

The thing is, though, we can't depend on either Russia or China to be
peaceful. Russia has invaded two democracies, Georgia and the
Ukraine, and is propping up the dictatorship in Belarus that forced down
an Irish airplane. China is continuing to harass and threaten Taiwan.

As these countries are creating conditions that may eventually lead
to the ultimate disaster of a war with the United States, something that
could head that danger off would seem to be a less bad alternative.

However, I see war between Russia and China as extremely unlikely;
both regimes see clearly where their interests lie, and thus they both
see the United States in particular, and the West in general, as their
enemy - *not* each other. Nothing the West can do will break up that
alliance, and they're not likely to make any mis-steps that will do so
either.

John Savard

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 13:26:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 8:11:59 PM UTC-6, Titus G wrote:
>> Why aren't the re-education camps achieving their
>> objectives?
>
>Because the human spirit is indomitable! Try to brainwash those
>who cherish the flame of liberty in their hearts, and they will just
>become more determined to fight Communist enslavement!
>
>Oh, sorry, these were nonexistent Democratic re-education camps.
>
>They're obviously not accomplishing their objectives because they
>don't exist!
>
>But in any case, with the recent news of an explosion at Kabul
>airport that cost the lives of several American servicemen, the
>decision to withdraw from Afghanistan _now_ looks like a
>strategic masterstroke, even though I thought it was a bad idea
>all along.
>
>Apparently, left to themselves, the Taliban and ISIS are going to
>fight a war with each other, thus, with any luck, ridding the world
>of two nuisances.

What makes you believe that?

Everything I read -- regardless of wing -- makes it clear that the
Taliban is either:
a) not actually in control of /itself/ [1], and so cannot possibly
hope to be in control of anything else; or
b) is running a confidence game in hopes of being recognized, given
access to Afghanistan's funds (mostly, apparently, in safe-keeping in
NYC [2]) and then resuming it's terrorist activities, having once
again bamboozled the rest of the world.

The /preferred/ possibility
c) they are serious and will therefore have no choice but to suppress
ISIS (and al-Qaeda and so on) inside Afghanistan, control their own
people, and man up to the point of providing minimal human rights
seems very unlikely, preferable as it is.

OTOH, they may be fighting mujahiddin for a while. Perhaps they will
fall into the "we hold the cities, why aren't we in control of the
nation?" trap.

[1] That is, the people speaking for them and claiming to be a
better-behaved Taliban mean what they say, but since the Taliban
consists of Muslim extremists, each of them believing that he,
personally, is charged by God to enforce God's laws as he (the Taliban
member, not God) understands them and certainly not as the wimpy
girly-men in charge would have him do, the top-level are more likely
to be replaced by more traditional types than manage to control their
followers' on-the-ground behavior.

This is where the difference between "the military" and "an armed mob"
becomes apparent.

[2] Yeah, I saw /Die Hard With A Vengeance/ too. Perhaps the heist at
its center was based on at least some sort of fiscal reality.

>Now if we could only get Russia and China to
>do the same - but it seems like they're best buddies right now,
>although one YouTube news channel from India seems to harbor
>hopes otherwise.

--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 01:09:19 -0700 (PDT), Hamish Laws
<hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:13:14 AM UTC+10, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1d...@4ax.com:
>> > A Republican, I
>> > might add, who showed us a few years later had /no/ concept of
>> > "planning".
>> You mean like the planning that went into withdrawing US troops
>> with no warning to the tens of thousands of Americans in the
>> country, who are now, in every sense of the word, hostages of
>> terrorists?
>>
>Well apart from the fact that there was an agreement to withdraw signed in Feb 2020...
>and here's a a presidential address from July 8
>"THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. Earlier today, I was briefed by our senior military and national security leaders on the status of the drawdown of U.S. forces and allied forces in Afghanistan.
>
>When I announced our drawdown in April, I said we would be out by September, and we’re on track to meet that target.
>
>Our military mission in Afghanistan will conclude on August 31st."
>
>Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was sworn in...

Something I suspect the three (?from memory?) Senate committees who
plan to look into the fiasco will, no doubt, be exploring.

Along with Biden not starting the evacuation of Afghani helpers on,
say, 1/22/21.

Trump may have shut down the special Visa section Obama set up for
them, but that doesn't mean the US military didn't know who they were
and which could be evacuated without disrupting operations.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote in
news:9cd298f5-1cf8-4818-9e4d-393c2a6fb363n@googlegroups.com:

> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:13:14 AM UTC+10, Jibini Kula
> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1d...@4ax.com:
>> > A Republican, I
>> > might add, who showed us a few years later had /no/ concept
>> > of "planning".
>> You mean like the planning that went into withdrawing US troops
>> with no warning to the tens of thousands of Americans in the
>> country, who are now, in every sense of the word, hostages of
>> terrorists?
>>
> Well apart from the fact that there was an agreement to withdraw
> signed in Feb 2020... and here's a a presidential address from
> July 8 "THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. Earlier today, I was
> briefed by our senior military and national security leaders on
> the status of the drawdown of U.S. forces and allied forces in
> Afghanistan.
>
> When I announced our drawdown in April, I said we would be out
> by September, and we’re on track to meet that target.
>
> Our military mission in Afghanistan will conclude on August
> 31st."
>
> Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was
> sworn in...

The issue isn't the withdrawal so much as the "in the middle of the
night without warning to people put at risk by it" part, leavning
an estimated 10,000-20,000 American citizens as literal hostages to
terrorists. On purpose.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 2021-08-28 12:48 p.m., Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:9cd298f5-1cf8-4818-9e4d-393c2a6fb363n@googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:13:14 AM UTC+10, Jibini Kula
>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1d...@4ax.com:
>>>> A Republican, I might add, who showed us a few years later had
>>>> /no/ concept of "planning".
>>> You mean like the planning that went into withdrawing US troops
>>> with no warning to the tens of thousands of Americans in the
>>> country, who are now, in every sense of the word, hostages of
>>> terrorists?
>>>
>> Well apart from the fact that there was an agreement to withdraw
>> signed in Feb 2020... and here's a a presidential address from July
>> 8 "THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. Earlier today, I was briefed by
>> our senior military and national security leaders on the status of
>> the drawdown of U.S. forces and allied forces in Afghanistan.
>>
>> When I announced our drawdown in April, I said we would be out by
>> September, and we’re on track to meet that target.
>>
>> Our military mission in Afghanistan will conclude on August 31st."
>>
>> Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was sworn
>> in...
>
> The issue isn't the withdrawal so much as the "in the middle of the>
> night without warning to people put at risk by it" part, leavning an
> estimated 10,000-20,000 American citizens as literal hostages to
> terrorists. On purpose.
>

Except for the little fact that it was never anywhere NEAR 10,000;
forget 20,000:

'Now, many of you have asked how many U.S. citizens remain in
Afghanistan who want to leave the country. Based on our analysis,
starting on August 14 when our evacuation operations began, there was
then a population of as many as 6,000 American citizens in Afghanistan
who wanted to leave.'

<https://www.state.gov/secretary-antony-j-blinken-on-afghanistan/>

But then, you've never let facts get in the way of your ideology, have you?

On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 2:49:01 AM UTC+10, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> Hamish Laws <hamis...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:9cd298f5-1cf8-4818...@googlegroups.com:
> > Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was
> > sworn in...
> The issue isn't the withdrawal so much as the "in the middle of the
> night without warning to people put at risk by it" part, leavning
> an estimated 10,000-20,000 American citizens as literal hostages to
> terrorists. On purpose.

a) Who gave that estimate?
b) they were advised to leave the country in May
c) WTF do you think a statement about a complete withdrawal of US forces by 1 September is?

On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 20:08:10 -0400, Alan Baker
<notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

>On 2021-08-28 12:48 p.m., Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>> Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:9cd298f5-1cf8-4818-9e4d-393c2a6fb363n@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:13:14 AM UTC+10, Jibini Kula
>>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>>> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1d...@4ax.com:
>>>>> A Republican, I might add, who showed us a few years later had
>>>>> /no/ concept of "planning".
>>>> You mean like the planning that went into withdrawing US troops
>>>> with no warning to the tens of thousands of Americans in the
>>>> country, who are now, in every sense of the word, hostages of
>>>> terrorists?
>>>>
>>> Well apart from the fact that there was an agreement to withdraw
>>> signed in Feb 2020... and here's a a presidential address from July
>>> 8 "THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. Earlier today, I was briefed by
>>> our senior military and national security leaders on the status of
>>> the drawdown of U.S. forces and allied forces in Afghanistan.
>>>
>>> When I announced our drawdown in April, I said we would be out by
>>> September, and we’re on track to meet that target.
>>>
>>> Our military mission in Afghanistan will conclude on August 31st."
>>>
>>> Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was sworn
>>> in...
>>
>> The issue isn't the withdrawal so much as the "in the middle of the>
>> night without warning to people put at risk by it" part, leavning an
>> estimated 10,000-20,000 American citizens as literal hostages to
>> terrorists. On purpose.
>>
>
>Except for the little fact that it was never anywhere NEAR 10,000;
>forget 20,000:
>
>'Now, many of you have asked how many U.S. citizens remain in
>Afghanistan who want to leave the country. Based on our analysis,
>starting on August 14 when our evacuation operations began, there was
>then a population of as many as 6,000 American citizens in Afghanistan
>who wanted to leave.'
>
><https://www.state.gov/secretary-antony-j-blinken-on-afghanistan/>

I feel it necessary to point out that you have established the number
who /wanted to leave/, not the number that were /in Afghanistan/.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 16:48:55 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:9cd298f5-1cf8-4818-9e4d-393c2a6fb363n@googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:13:14 AM UTC+10, Jibini Kula
>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1d...@4ax.com:
>>> > A Republican, I
>>> > might add, who showed us a few years later had /no/ concept
>>> > of "planning".
>>> You mean like the planning that went into withdrawing US troops
>>> with no warning to the tens of thousands of Americans in the
>>> country, who are now, in every sense of the word, hostages of
>>> terrorists?
>>>
>> Well apart from the fact that there was an agreement to withdraw
>> signed in Feb 2020... and here's a a presidential address from
>> July 8 "THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. Earlier today, I was
>> briefed by our senior military and national security leaders on
>> the status of the drawdown of U.S. forces and allied forces in
>> Afghanistan.
>>
>> When I announced our drawdown in April, I said we would be out
>> by September, and we’re on track to meet that target.
>>
>> Our military mission in Afghanistan will conclude on August
>> 31st."
>>
>> Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was
>> sworn in...
>
>The issue isn't the withdrawal so much as the "in the middle of the
>night without warning to people put at risk by it" part, leavning
>an estimated 10,000-20,000 American citizens as literal hostages to
>terrorists. On purpose.

You do realize that you are stating that /Trump/ did this, right? You
are, after all, responding to something /Trump/ did before Biden was
sworn in.

Are you sure that's what you intended to say? 'Cause what you said
sounds an awful lot like a Trump Talking Point desperately trying to
shift the blame from Trump to Biden -- for doing what Trump had
planned to do himself, had he won.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:51bnig159jvs754atvn2k10mjbj4nc1nqr@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 16:48:55 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:9cd298f5-1cf8-4818-9e4d-393c2a6fb363n@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:13:14 AM UTC+10, Jibini Kula
>>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>>> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1d...@4ax.com:
>>>> > A Republican, I
>>>> > might add, who showed us a few years later had /no/ concept
>>>> > of "planning".
>>>> You mean like the planning that went into withdrawing US
>>>> troops with no warning to the tens of thousands of Americans
>>>> in the country, who are now, in every sense of the word,
>>>> hostages of terrorists?
>>>>
>>> Well apart from the fact that there was an agreement to
>>> withdraw signed in Feb 2020... and here's a a presidential
>>> address from July 8 "THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. Earlier
>>> today, I was briefed by our senior military and national
>>> security leaders on the status of the drawdown of U.S. forces
>>> and allied forces in Afghanistan.
>>>
>>> When I announced our drawdown in April, I said we would be out
>>> by September, and we’re on track to meet that target.
>>>
>>> Our military mission in Afghanistan will conclude on August
>>> 31st."
>>>
>>> Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was
>>> sworn in...
>>
>>The issue isn't the withdrawal so much as the "in the middle of
>>the night without warning to people put at risk by it" part,
>>leavning an estimated 10,000-20,000 American citizens as literal
>>hostages to terrorists. On purpose.
>
> You do realize that you are stating that /Trump/ did this,

You do realize Trump wasn't President in late July when that
withdrawal took place, right?

No, obviously, you do not, because you're not allowed to by your
masters.

> right? You are, after all, responding to something /Trump/ did
> before Biden was sworn in.

You're claiming Biden was sworn in in mid-July of this year?

Really?
>
> Are you sure that's what you intended to say?

You are literally halluicination *right* *now*.

Get help, dude, seriously, before you hurt yourself.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote in
news:a5d8da78-79b2-47ab-b8fc-03a8c6eab24an@googlegroups.com:

> On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 2:49:01 AM UTC+10, Ninapenda
> Jibini wrote:
>> Hamish Laws <hamis...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:9cd298f5-1cf8-4818...@googlegroups.com:
>> > Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was
>> > sworn in...
>> The issue isn't the withdrawal so much as the "in the middle of
>> the night without warning to people put at risk by it" part,
>> leavning an estimated 10,000-20,000 American citizens as
>> literal hostages to terrorists. On purpose.
>
> a) Who gave that estimate?

Lots of sources. Read the fucking news. Or not. We both know you
*refuse* to acknowledge facts that make your lords and masters look
like the traitors they are.

> b) they were advised to leave the country in May

And were turned over to Taliban terrorists as hostages last month. On
purpose.

> c) WTF do you think a statement about a complete withdrawal of
> US forces by 1 September is?
>
In this case, treason.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:kuanig1bcf9f1dkvvij1fvqtsrs3eis5c2@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 20:08:10 -0400, Alan Baker
> <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>
>>On 2021-08-28 12:48 p.m., Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>> Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:9cd298f5-1cf8-4818-9e4d-393c2a6fb363n@googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:13:14 AM UTC+10, Jibini Kula
>>>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>>>> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1d...@4ax.com:
>>>>>> A Republican, I might add, who showed us a few years later
>>>>>> had /no/ concept of "planning".
>>>>> You mean like the planning that went into withdrawing US
>>>>> troops with no warning to the tens of thousands of Americans
>>>>> in the country, who are now, in every sense of the word,
>>>>> hostages of terrorists?
>>>>>
>>>> Well apart from the fact that there was an agreement to
>>>> withdraw signed in Feb 2020... and here's a a presidential
>>>> address from July 8 "THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. Earlier
>>>> today, I was briefed by our senior military and national
>>>> security leaders on the status of the drawdown of U.S. forces
>>>> and allied forces in Afghanistan.
>>>>
>>>> When I announced our drawdown in April, I said we would be
>>>> out by September, and we�re on track to meet that target.
>>>>
>>>> Our military mission in Afghanistan will conclude on August
>>>> 31st."
>>>>
>>>> Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was
>>>> sworn in...
>>>
>>> The issue isn't the withdrawal so much as the "in the middle
>>> of the> night without warning to people put at risk by it"
>>> part, leavning an estimated 10,000-20,000 American citizens as
>>> literal hostages to terrorists. On purpose.
>>>
>>
>>Except for the little fact that it was never anywhere NEAR
>>10,000; forget 20,000:
>>
>>'Now, many of you have asked how many U.S. citizens remain in
>>Afghanistan who want to leave the country. Based on our
>>analysis, starting on August 14 when our evacuation operations
>>began, there was then a population of as many as 6,000 American
>>citizens in Afghanistan who wanted to leave.'
>>
>><https://www.state.gov/secretary-antony-j-blinken-on-afghanistan/
>>>
>
> I feel it necessary to point out that you have established the
> number who /wanted to leave/, not the number that were /in
> Afghanistan/.

And quoted a source that has considerable reason to try to hide the
treasonous culpability of the current administration.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 2021-08-29 5:36 p.m., Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
> news:51bnig159jvs754atvn2k10mjbj4nc1nqr@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 16:48:55 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:9cd298f5-1cf8-4818-9e4d-393c2a6fb363n@googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:13:14 AM UTC+10, Jibini Kula
>>>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>>>> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1d...@4ax.com:
>>>>>> A Republican, I
>>>>>> might add, who showed us a few years later had /no/ concept
>>>>>> of "planning".
>>>>> You mean like the planning that went into withdrawing US
>>>>> troops with no warning to the tens of thousands of Americans
>>>>> in the country, who are now, in every sense of the word,
>>>>> hostages of terrorists?
>>>>>
>>>> Well apart from the fact that there was an agreement to
>>>> withdraw signed in Feb 2020... and here's a a presidential
>>>> address from July 8 "THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. Earlier
>>>> today, I was briefed by our senior military and national
>>>> security leaders on the status of the drawdown of U.S. forces
>>>> and allied forces in Afghanistan.
>>>>
>>>> When I announced our drawdown in April, I said we would be out
>>>> by September, and we’re on track to meet that target.
>>>>
>>>> Our military mission in Afghanistan will conclude on August
>>>> 31st."
>>>>
>>>> Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was
>>>> sworn in...
>>>
>>> The issue isn't the withdrawal so much as the "in the middle of
>>> the night without warning to people put at risk by it" part,
>>> leavning an estimated 10,000-20,000 American citizens as literal
>>> hostages to terrorists. On purpose.
>>
>> You do realize that you are stating that /Trump/ did this,
>
> You do realize Trump wasn't President in late July when that
> withdrawal took place, right?
>

You realize Trump had already drawn down US forces to 2,500 BEFORE he
left office, right?

On 2021-08-29 5:37 p.m., Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:a5d8da78-79b2-47ab-b8fc-03a8c6eab24an@googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 2:49:01 AM UTC+10, Ninapenda
>> Jibini wrote:
>>> Hamish Laws <hamis...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:9cd298f5-1cf8-4818...@googlegroups.com:
>>>> Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was
>>>> sworn in...
>>> The issue isn't the withdrawal so much as the "in the middle of
>>> the night without warning to people put at risk by it" part,
>>> leavning an estimated 10,000-20,000 American citizens as
>>> literal hostages to terrorists. On purpose.
>>
>> a) Who gave that estimate?
>
> Lots of sources. Read the fucking news. Or not. We both know you
> *refuse* to acknowledge facts that make your lords and masters look
> like the traitors they are.

And yet with "lots of sources", you'd rather write that paragraph than
actually provide one.

On 2021-08-29 5:38 p.m., Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
> news:kuanig1bcf9f1dkvvij1fvqtsrs3eis5c2@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 20:08:10 -0400, Alan Baker
>> <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-08-28 12:48 p.m., Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>>> Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:9cd298f5-1cf8-4818-9e4d-393c2a6fb363n@googlegroups.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:13:14 AM UTC+10, Jibini Kula
>>>>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1d...@4ax.com:
>>>>>>> A Republican, I might add, who showed us a few years later
>>>>>>> had /no/ concept of "planning".
>>>>>> You mean like the planning that went into withdrawing US
>>>>>> troops with no warning to the tens of thousands of Americans
>>>>>> in the country, who are now, in every sense of the word,
>>>>>> hostages of terrorists?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Well apart from the fact that there was an agreement to
>>>>> withdraw signed in Feb 2020... and here's a a presidential
>>>>> address from July 8 "THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. Earlier
>>>>> today, I was briefed by our senior military and national
>>>>> security leaders on the status of the drawdown of U.S. forces
>>>>> and allied forces in Afghanistan.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I announced our drawdown in April, I said we would be
>>>>> out by September, and we’re on track to meet that target.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our military mission in Afghanistan will conclude on August
>>>>> 31st."
>>>>>
>>>>> Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was
>>>>> sworn in...
>>>>
>>>> The issue isn't the withdrawal so much as the "in the middle
>>>> of the> night without warning to people put at risk by it"
>>>> part, leavning an estimated 10,000-20,000 American citizens as
>>>> literal hostages to terrorists. On purpose.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Except for the little fact that it was never anywhere NEAR
>>> 10,000; forget 20,000:
>>>
>>> 'Now, many of you have asked how many U.S. citizens remain in
>>> Afghanistan who want to leave the country. Based on our
>>> analysis, starting on August 14 when our evacuation operations
>>> began, there was then a population of as many as 6,000 American
>>> citizens in Afghanistan who wanted to leave.'
>>>
>>> <https://www.state.gov/secretary-antony-j-blinken-on-afghanistan/
>>>>
>>
>> I feel it necessary to point out that you have established the
>> number who /wanted to leave/, not the number that were /in
>> Afghanistan/.
>
> And quoted a source that has considerable reason to try to hide the
> treasonous culpability of the current administration.
>

LOL!

On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:37:23 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:a5d8da78-79b2-47ab-b8fc-03a8c6eab24an@googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 2:49:01 AM UTC+10, Ninapenda
>> Jibini wrote:
>>> Hamish Laws <hamis...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:9cd298f5-1cf8-4818...@googlegroups.com:
>>> > Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was
>>> > sworn in...
>>> The issue isn't the withdrawal so much as the "in the middle of
>>> the night without warning to people put at risk by it" part,
>>> leavning an estimated 10,000-20,000 American citizens as
>>> literal hostages to terrorists. On purpose.
>>
>> a) Who gave that estimate?
>
>Lots of sources. Read the fucking news. Or not. We both know you
>*refuse* to acknowledge facts that make your lords and masters look
>like the traitors they are.
>
>> b) they were advised to leave the country in May
>
>And were turned over to Taliban terrorists as hostages last month. On
>purpose.
>
>> c) WTF do you think a statement about a complete withdrawal of
>> US forces by 1 September is?
>>
>In this case, treason.

Why, yes, I suppose the man who set it up /could/ be regarded as a
traitor.

That man, of course, was Donald Trump.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 18:01:15 -0400, Alan Baker
<notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

>On 2021-08-29 5:36 p.m., Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>> news:51bnig159jvs754atvn2k10mjbj4nc1nqr@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 16:48:55 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
>>> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:9cd298f5-1cf8-4818-9e4d-393c2a6fb363n@googlegroups.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:13:14 AM UTC+10, Jibini Kula
>>>>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>> news:kv0thg5dp5vgsjj1d...@4ax.com:
>>>>>>> A Republican, I
>>>>>>> might add, who showed us a few years later had /no/ concept
>>>>>>> of "planning".
>>>>>> You mean like the planning that went into withdrawing US
>>>>>> troops with no warning to the tens of thousands of Americans
>>>>>> in the country, who are now, in every sense of the word,
>>>>>> hostages of terrorists?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Well apart from the fact that there was an agreement to
>>>>> withdraw signed in Feb 2020... and here's a a presidential
>>>>> address from July 8 "THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. Earlier
>>>>> today, I was briefed by our senior military and national
>>>>> security leaders on the status of the drawdown of U.S. forces
>>>>> and allied forces in Afghanistan.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I announced our drawdown in April, I said we would be out
>>>>> by September, and we’re on track to meet that target.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our military mission in Afghanistan will conclude on August
>>>>> 31st."
>>>>>
>>>>> Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was
>>>>> sworn in...
>>>>
>>>> The issue isn't the withdrawal so much as the "in the middle of
>>>> the night without warning to people put at risk by it" part,
>>>> leavning an estimated 10,000-20,000 American citizens as literal
>>>> hostages to terrorists. On purpose.
>>>
>>> You do realize that you are stating that /Trump/ did this,
>>
>> You do realize Trump wasn't President in late July when that
>> withdrawal took place, right?
>>
>
>You realize Trump had already drawn down US forces to 2,500 BEFORE he
>left office, right?

Since he clearly missed it when I pointed this out, I would say he
does NOT.

And, quite possibly, never will.

Being a bot sucks!
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:8vupiglmpr5l7fr1bbh52ntqumglcb4l1t@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:37:23 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:a5d8da78-79b2-47ab-b8fc-03a8c6eab24an@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 2:49:01 AM UTC+10, Ninapenda
>>> Jibini wrote:
>>>> Hamish Laws <hamis...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:9cd298f5-1cf8-4818...@googlegroups.com:
>>>> > Trump lowered numbers from 13,000 to 2,500 before Biden was
>>>> > sworn in...
>>>> The issue isn't the withdrawal so much as the "in the middle
>>>> of the night without warning to people put at risk by it"
>>>> part, leavning an estimated 10,000-20,000 American citizens
>>>> as literal hostages to terrorists. On purpose.
>>>
>>> a) Who gave that estimate?
>>
>>Lots of sources. Read the fucking news. Or not. We both know you
>>*refuse* to acknowledge facts that make your lords and masters
>>look like the traitors they are.
>>
>>> b) they were advised to leave the country in May
>>
>>And were turned over to Taliban terrorists as hostages last
>>month. On purpose.
>>
>>> c) WTF do you think a statement about a complete withdrawal of
>>> US forces by 1 September is?
>>>
>>In this case, treason.
>
> Why, yes, I suppose the man who set it up /could/ be regarded as
> a traitor.

Biden is too mentally deranged to be prosecuted. His puppeteers, on
the other hand, should all hang.
>
> That man, of course, was Donald Trump.

Trump didn't decide to withdraw in the middle of the night with no
notice, or give a list of US citizens and biometric identifying
data to the terrorists while leaving thousands of US citizens
behind, never mind the tens of thousands of local allies. Or
billions of dollars in state of the art equipment in usable
condition. The Taliban is better armed than the Canadian military
now.

You will, of course, masturbate furiously over this, and literally
hallucinate that Trump somehow is responsible for what Biden('s
puppeteers) did in July, but your mental illness doesn't make it
true.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.