Just found this app while googling Robert Lortat (APR are releasing a transfer of his Chopin soon.)

https://exhibitions.lib.umd.edu/piano-genealogies

tirsdag den 25. juli 2023 kl. 10.27.56 UTC+2 skrev Mandryka:
> Just found this app while googling Robert Lortat (APR are releasing a transfer of his Chopin soon.)
>
> https://exhibitions.lib.umd.edu/piano-genealogies
Thank you

Op dinsdag 25 juli 2023 om 10:27:56 UTC+2 schreef Mandryka:
> Just found this app while googling Robert Lortat (APR are releasing a transfer of his Chopin soon.)
>
> https://exhibitions.lib.umd.edu/piano-genealogies

Thanks. It just makes me wonder what it tells us about the performances of students of a certain school. Kempff and Rubinstein were both Barth's pupils. I cannot detect similarities.

Henk

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 11:52:19 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
> Op dinsdag 25 juli 2023 om 10:27:56 UTC+2 schreef Mandryka:
> > Just found this app while googling Robert Lortat (APR are releasing a transfer of his Chopin soon.)
> >
> > https://exhibitions.lib.umd.edu/piano-genealogies
> Thanks. It just makes me wonder what it tells us about the performances of students of a certain school. Kempff and Rubinstein were both Barth's pupils. I cannot detect similarities.
>
> Henk

One thing to say, is that if we're to assess your claim, we may have to look at the earliest recordings. This interesting article suggests that Rubinstein's style changed significantly

https://www.charm.rhul.ac.uk/studies/chapters/chap6.html

Op dinsdag 25 juli 2023 om 13:58:04 UTC+2 schreef Mandryka:
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 11:52:19 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
> > Op dinsdag 25 juli 2023 om 10:27:56 UTC+2 schreef Mandryka:
> > > Just found this app while googling Robert Lortat (APR are releasing a transfer of his Chopin soon.)
> > >
> > > https://exhibitions.lib.umd.edu/piano-genealogies
> > Thanks. It just makes me wonder what it tells us about the performances of students of a certain school. Kempff and Rubinstein were both Barth's pupils. I cannot detect similarities.
> >
> > Henk
> One thing to say, is that if we're to assess your claim, we may have to look at the earliest recordings. This interesting article suggests that Rubinstein's style changed significantly
>
> https://www.charm.rhul.ac.uk/studies/chapters/chap6.html

Interesting article. Thanks! Here are a few links to pre-war recordings.

Kempff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvuCZ3pXWTA

Rubinstein:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioHBn0m1FNY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlJXexqyeOo

Both are great performers. And there might be other similarities, on an inaudible level. The way they study a piece, and their daily exercises. In his first biography, Rubinstein complained about the lack of enthusiasm (in the etymological sense) in Barth's classes. He believed he would have become a better pianist if he had studied with Busoni.

Henk

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 3:55:20 PM UTC+1, HT wrote:
> Op dinsdag 25 juli 2023 om 13:58:04 UTC+2 schreef Mandryka:
> > On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 11:52:19 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
> > > Op dinsdag 25 juli 2023 om 10:27:56 UTC+2 schreef Mandryka:
> > > > Just found this app while googling Robert Lortat (APR are releasing a transfer of his Chopin soon.)
> > > >
> > > > https://exhibitions.lib.umd.edu/piano-genealogies
> > > Thanks. It just makes me wonder what it tells us about the performances of students of a certain school. Kempff and Rubinstein were both Barth's pupils. I cannot detect similarities.
> > >
> > > Henk
> > One thing to say, is that if we're to assess your claim, we may have to look at the earliest recordings. This interesting article suggests that Rubinstein's style changed significantly
> >
> > https://www.charm.rhul.ac.uk/studies/chapters/chap6.html
> Interesting article. Thanks! Here are a few links to pre-war recordings.
>
> Kempff:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvuCZ3pXWTA
>
> Rubinstein:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioHBn0m1FNY
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlJXexqyeOo
>
> Both are great performers. And there might be other similarities, on an inaudible level. The way they study a piece, and their daily exercises. In his first biography, Rubinstein complained about the lack of enthusiasm (in the etymological sense) in Barth's classes. He believed he would have become a better pianist if he had studied with Busoni.
>
> Henk

Jeu perlé does seem to be a real thing, a real "piano school" defining trait (Just been listening to Magaloff's Goyescas and this thought came to mind. )

Op vrijdag 28 juli 2023 om 14:43:20 UTC+2 schreef Mandryka:
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 3:55:20 PM UTC+1, HT wrote:
> > Op dinsdag 25 juli 2023 om 13:58:04 UTC+2 schreef Mandryka:
> > > On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 11:52:19 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
> > > > Op dinsdag 25 juli 2023 om 10:27:56 UTC+2 schreef Mandryka:
> > > > > Just found this app while googling Robert Lortat (APR are releasing a transfer of his Chopin soon.)
> > > > >
> > > > > https://exhibitions.lib.umd.edu/piano-genealogies
> > > > Thanks. It just makes me wonder what it tells us about the performances of students of a certain school. Kempff and Rubinstein were both Barth's pupils. I cannot detect similarities.
> > > >
> > > > Henk
> > > One thing to say, is that if we're to assess your claim, we may have to look at the earliest recordings. This interesting article suggests that Rubinstein's style changed significantly
> > >
> > > https://www.charm.rhul.ac.uk/studies/chapters/chap6.html
> > Interesting article. Thanks! Here are a few links to pre-war recordings..
> >
> > Kempff:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvuCZ3pXWTA
> >
> > Rubinstein:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioHBn0m1FNY
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlJXexqyeOo
> >
> > Both are great performers. And there might be other similarities, on an inaudible level. The way they study a piece, and their daily exercises. In his first biography, Rubinstein complained about the lack of enthusiasm (in the etymological sense) in Barth's classes. He believed he would have become a better pianist if he had studied with Busoni.
> >
> > Henk
> Jeu perlé does seem to be a real thing, a real "piano school" defining trait (Just been listening to Magaloff's Goyescas and this thought came to mind. )

Agreed.

Magaloff's Goyescas don't sparkle. Don't know why not. They could use it, and Magaloff played jeu perlé as the best, even later in his career:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-2_IJ1EJmc

As a student of Isidor Philipp, he stood in the Chopin tradition. So, one would expect him to be more inclined to use this technique than others, but he doesn't. Usually, he prefers a more elegant, Viennese approach.

I've been a Magaloff completist for years and never thought of him as a French pianist, like for example Darré and others.

From another perspective, jeu perlé doesn't seem to be a fundamental technique. It is useful (obligatory, some would say) in certain pieces or passages.

Nor is it typically French. Philipp did certainly not invent it. It existed long before and was popularized by Chopin. On the only recording I heard, he sounded very much like Magaloff in the Goyescas.

AFAIK, of course. If other members do know more ...

Henk