Some works are simply uneven - boring bits and then flashes of inspiration.

I'll start with The Nutcracker, Tchaikovsky. Boring as hell until The Arrival of Clara and the Nutcracker Prince, after which we get all the famous music.

Ma vlast. Starts strong, becomes less so over the intervening five hours.

On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 3:14:03 AM UTC+10, Andy Evans wrote:
> Some works are simply uneven - boring bits and then flashes of inspiration.
>
> I'll start with The Nutcracker, Tchaikovsky. Boring as hell until The Arrival of Clara and the Nutcracker Prince, after which we get all the famous music.

Coppelia, as a spectacle. All the interesting action takes place in Dr Coppelia's house. The rest, before and after, is just tittup.
The Nutcracker is fine if you're watching it, not just listening to it.
But then I usually have to watch both opera and ballet to make any sense of what's going on. Thank goodness for DVDs and streaming services.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Both Nutcracker and Coppelia are theatrical works, ballets, which were intended to be watched and heard in the theatre. Not to be played often on a cd-player or on spotify.
It's like saying a car is bad for sleeping in.
Incidentally, I would say (just like Tchaikovsky said) that Coppelia is well-nigh perfect.

The other thing is, when listening at home, pretty much all music sounds 'uneven', i.e. I walk away during Beethoven's violin concerto which can be really boring if you're not there.

On Saturday, 16 September 2023 at 08:43:39 UTC+1, Herman wrote:

< I walk away during Beethoven's violin concerto which can be really boring if you're not there.

I've always found that concerto much too repetitive and a bit big for its boots. A poor second to the piano concerti.

Others find it sublime it seems.

On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 5:43:39 PM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> Both Nutcracker and Coppelia are theatrical works, ballets, which were intended to be watched and heard in the theatre. Not to be played often on a cd-player or on spotify.
> It's like saying a car is bad for sleeping in.
> Incidentally, I would say (just like Tchaikovsky said) that Coppelia is well-nigh perfect.
>
> The other thing is, when listening at home, pretty much all music sounds 'uneven', i.e. I walk away during Beethoven's violin concerto which can be really boring if you're not there.

Herman, I thought I made it clear that I only watch, as well as listen to, ballet and opera. I stream ballet from Covent Garden. And Tchaikovsky probably loved tittup anyway.

Meanwhile, Beethoven's Ninth is beautiful for a couple of bars - you think it's going to be Mahler's First or something - and gets progressively worse.. A bit like Beethoven's Fifth.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 12:43:39 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
>
> when listening at home, pretty
> much all music sounds 'uneven',

This is a great observation, and it
makes a very revealing litmus test
for finding great performances. I
always listen to music while I work.

If anything catches my attention
and stands out from the noise,
chances are the performance
is above average.

> i.e. I walk away during Beethoven's
> violin concerto which can be really
> boring if you're not there.

It is actually very boring even when
one is "there". If Czerny had written
it he would have called it an etude,
rather than a concerto. Boring van
Beethoven was as shameless as a
car salesperson in marketing his
goods.

dk

On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 2:19:29 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
> Beethoven's Ninth is beautiful for a couple of bars -

Can you point out those bars?

Curious ears would like to hear .....

dk

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 10:49:44 AM UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 2:19:29 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >
> > Beethoven's Ninth is beautiful for a couple of bars -
> Can you point out those bars?
>
> Curious ears would like to hear .....
>

The ones at the very beginning of the first movement. It's all downhill from there ...

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 8:12:18 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 10:49:44 AM UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 2:19:29 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > >
> > > Beethoven's Ninth is beautiful for a couple of bars -
> >
> > Can you point out those bars?
> >
> > Curious ears would like to hear .....
>
> The ones at the very beginning of
> the first movement. It's all downhill
> from there ...

You mean this?

https://youtu.be/rOjHhS5MtvA&t=110s

I hear no music there. Mad dog barking.

dk