On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 4:21:06 AM UTC+4, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> You've seen multiple recs here for Rosbaud, who lands the last movement in just over 11:30. This is by almost everyone's measure a very special Bruckner 7. His recent SWR box collects some great Bruckner, but the version of this December 1957 recording in the box is in mono. The same performance on VOX is better known and in stereo. Even better than VOX is the release in an oddball collection of Bruckner recordings put out on ZYX. You can get a used copy for under $10. The ZYX team got their hands on a master tape that was even better than what VOX had access to (no idea how, but the sound improvement is easy to spot), so what you have is the best-sounding release of this recording that had yet been offered up to that point- the sound is quite excellent stereo.

The ZYX version of Rosbaud's 7th is available freely from abruckner.com:

https://www.abruckner.com/downloads/downloadofthemonth/november14/

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 1:18:30 PM UTC-5, arel64 wrote:
> On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 4:21:06 AM UTC+4, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> > You've seen multiple recs here for Rosbaud, who lands the last movement in just over 11:30. This is by almost everyone's measure a very special Bruckner 7. His recent SWR box collects some great Bruckner, but the version of this December 1957 recording in the box is in mono. The same performance on VOX is better known and in stereo. Even better than VOX is the release in an oddball collection of Bruckner recordings put out on ZYX. You can get a used copy for under $10. The ZYX team got their hands on a master tape that was even better than what VOX had access to (no idea how, but the sound improvement is easy to spot), so what you have is the best-sounding release of this recording that had yet been offered up to that point- the sound is quite excellent stereo.
>
> The ZYX version of Rosbaud's 7th is available freely from abruckner.com:
>
> https://www.abruckner.com/downloads/downloadofthemonth/november14/

Rocking! Nobody should miss that.

On Monday, 18 September 2023 at 23:25:11 UTC+10, mswd...gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 7:42:56 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> > Tempi cannot be compared across
> > different editions.
> I take your point, but obviously, they can. I can refer to roughly identical passages passages and say, "well, if there are different tempi instructions, I think one is better than the other". (Do I need to refer to a score to find out whether a tempi is clearly marked or if what I hear is the choice of the conductor? Some would say yes- me, I don't care.) You may say "that is an incorrect method", to which my response is that my level of worship will never be so great that I don't see value in occasionally breaking rules or executing a technical error. I'm going to judge what works, respecting the fact that what works in my brain has inherently limited value for others.
> > > I think Inbal is underrated, so I will have
> > > to refamiliarize myself with these.
> > indeed he is.
> I recall Inbal being touted by - who was it? The fellow who some later thought was Barrington-Coupe. Alan Watkins? AW always had interesting opinions, whomever he was.
>
> > dk

The Inbal Bruckner has always been available on Teldec from the early days of CD. I bought several of them individually but as I have already said, the original versions are rarely if ever played at a concert. Strikes me that if one says that only the original versions are acceptable, then we are entering a mode of pernicketyness occupied by the original hipsters. There is good reason why Haas, Nowak editions have prevailed, without getting too theoretical about it. However if the original versions floats boats then its ok for the floaters.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 6:23:51 PM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> The Inbal Bruckner has always been available on Teldec from the early days of CD.

It's not readily available now. I recall hearing those recordings in my Bruckner-youth and finding them wanting. Perhaps I expected Karajan's strings, perhaps my equipment stunk, who knows. They sound fine to me now. That said, I'm cheap. Unless the package is under $30 for all, I'll be sticking with the recordings I already have.

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:18:26 -0700, arel64 wrote:

> On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 4:21:06???AM UTC+4, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> > You've seen multiple recs here for Rosbaud, who lands the last movement in just over 11:30. This is by almost everyone's measure a very special Bruckner 7. His recent SWR box collects some great Bruckner, but the version of this December 1957 recording in the box is in mono. The same performance on VOX is better known and in stereo. Even better than VOX is the release in an oddball collection of Bruckner recordings put out on ZYX. You can get a used copy for under $10. The ZYX team got their hands on a master tape that was even better than what VOX had access to (no idea how, but the sound improvement is easy to spot), so what you have is the best-sounding release of this recording that had yet been offered up to that point- the sound is quite excellent stereo.
>
> The ZYX version of Rosbaud's 7th is available freely from abruckner.com:
>
> https://www.abruckner.com/downloads/downloadofthemonth/november14/

zyx cds with the Rosbaud 7th:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphonie-Nr-7-Anton-Bruckner/dp/B000005TH6/

https://www.amazon.com/Symphonie-Nr-7-Various-Artists/dp/B000005TH6/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SL1P5PS

I've avoided the zyx label because I assumed it was
one of the Membran labels, a label I avoid if I can,
because of it's so-called "noise reduction".
Noise reduction causes noise, I associate noise
reduction with dirty, smeared, muffled, harsh sound with
fake stereo and radical EQ changes.

Membran, so far as I know, includes History, Maestro,
Intense Media, Artone, Documents, Ars Musici [since 2008],
etc.

On Tuesday, 19 September 2023 at 10:47:27 UTC+10, mswd...gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 6:23:51 PM UTC-5, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> > The Inbal Bruckner has always been available on Teldec from the early days of CD.
> It's not readily available now. I recall hearing those recordings in my Bruckner-youth and finding them wanting. Perhaps I expected Karajan's strings, perhaps my equipment stunk, who knows. They sound fine to me now. That said, I'm cheap. Unless the package is under $30 for all, I'll be sticking with the recordings I already have.

I always felt the need for plusher sound with Inbal, and though he is a fine Brucknerian, the editions used and the early digital sound rules him out for me. Tintner is as good on Naxos. Overall, I tend to prefer Wand or Jochum.

Ray Hall, Taree

Op dinsdag 19 september 2023 om 01:23:51 UTC+2 schreef raymond....@gmail.com:
> On Monday, 18 September 2023 at 23:25:11 UTC+10, mswd...gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 7:42:56 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > > Tempi cannot be compared across
> > > different editions.
> > I take your point, but obviously, they can. I can refer to roughly identical passages passages and say, "well, if there are different tempi instructions, I think one is better than the other". (Do I need to refer to a score to find out whether a tempi is clearly marked or if what I hear is the choice of the conductor? Some would say yes- me, I don't care.) You may say "that is an incorrect method", to which my response is that my level of worship will never be so great that I don't see value in occasionally breaking rules or executing a technical error. I'm going to judge what works, respecting the fact that what works in my brain has inherently limited value for others.
> > > > I think Inbal is underrated, so I will have
> > > > to refamiliarize myself with these.
> > > indeed he is.
> > I recall Inbal being touted by - who was it? The fellow who some later thought was Barrington-Coupe. Alan Watkins? AW always had interesting opinions, whomever he was.
> >
> > > dk
> The Inbal Bruckner has always been available on Teldec from the early days of CD. I bought several of them individually but as I have already said, the original versions are rarely if ever played at a concert. Strikes me that if one says that only the original versions are acceptable, then we are entering a mode of pernicketyness occupied by the original hipsters. There is good reason why Haas, Nowak editions have prevailed, without getting too theoretical about it. However if the original versions floats boats then its ok for the floaters.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

Bruckner himself has made different versions (revisions or whatever they are named) of some of his symphonies. Why should one play the "original" versions in those cases?

On Tuesday, 19 September 2023 at 13:08:59 UTC+10, rec.music.classical.recordings wrote:
> Op dinsdag 19 september 2023 om 01:23:51 UTC+2 schreef raymond....gmail.com:
> > On Monday, 18 September 2023 at 23:25:11 UTC+10, mswd...gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 7:42:56 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> > >
> > > > Tempi cannot be compared across
> > > > different editions.
> > > I take your point, but obviously, they can. I can refer to roughly identical passages passages and say, "well, if there are different tempi instructions, I think one is better than the other". (Do I need to refer to a score to find out whether a tempi is clearly marked or if what I hear is the choice of the conductor? Some would say yes- me, I don't care.) You may say "that is an incorrect method", to which my response is that my level of worship will never be so great that I don't see value in occasionally breaking rules or executing a technical error. I'm going to judge what works, respecting the fact that what works in my brain has inherently limited value for others.
> > > > > I think Inbal is underrated, so I will have
> > > > > to refamiliarize myself with these.
> > > > indeed he is.
> > > I recall Inbal being touted by - who was it? The fellow who some later thought was Barrington-Coupe. Alan Watkins? AW always had interesting opinions, whomever he was.
> > >
> > > > dk
> > The Inbal Bruckner has always been available on Teldec from the early days of CD. I bought several of them individually but as I have already said, the original versions are rarely if ever played at a concert. Strikes me that if one says that only the original versions are acceptable, then we are entering a mode of pernicketyness occupied by the original hipsters. There is good reason why Haas, Nowak editions have prevailed, without getting too theoretical about it. However if the original versions floats boats then its ok for the floaters.
> >
> > Ray Hall, Taree
> Bruckner himself has made different versions (revisions or whatever they are named) of some of his symphonies. Why should one play the "original" versions in those cases?

Maybe you can tell me.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 10:35:55 PM UTC-7, steve...@gmail.com wrote:
> I have several recordings of the Bruckner 7th including Karajan, Wand, Giulini, and various Celibidaches. Listening to the 1st and 2nd movements is a joy of course, but the last movement always eludes me. Its themes are clearly based off of the opening melody of the first movement, but emotionally the music as a whole never seems to grab me. Does anyone have a recommendation for a recording that includes a "revelatory" reading of this elusive movement in particular, one that brings out what is ostensibly great in it?

According to this:

- The last two movements are shorter, and the symphony ends with one of Bruckner's great perorations.

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22the+last+two+movements+are+shorter%2C+and+the+symphony+ends+with+one+of+Bruckner%27s+great+perorations.%22%22+

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 7:56:39 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> I've avoided the zyx label because I assumed it was
> one of the Membran labels, a label I avoid if I can,
> because of it's so-called "noise reduction".
> Noise reduction causes noise, I associate noise
> reduction with dirty, smeared, muffled, harsh sound with
> fake stereo and radical EQ changes.
>
> Membran, so far as I know, includes History, Maestro,
> Intense Media, Artone, Documents, Ars Musici [since 2008],
> etc.

I know the reflex. The worst quality audio I've heard in recent years was on Hänssler. The CD sounded like a low-quality MP3 that had then been put through a very aggressive noise reduction process. It was a historical issue of someone like Leo Blech, though that wasn't who it was. I now have a hard time trusting any of their historical releases.

In this case you can at least hear the audio yourself for free, and legally.. I don't think you will object.
https://www.abruckner.com/downloads/downloadofthemonth/november14/

Op dinsdag 19 september 2023 om 05:08:59 UTC+2 schreef rec.music.classical.recordings:

> Bruckner himself has made different versions (revisions or whatever they are named) of some of his symphonies. Why should one play the "original" versions in those cases?

This message was posted by me. NOT by "rec.music.classical.recordings".

On 9/19/23 9:34 AM, Gerard wrote:
> Op dinsdag 19 september 2023 om 05:08:59 UTC+2 schreef rec.music.classical.recordings:
>
>> Bruckner himself has made different versions (revisions or whatever they are named) of some of his symphonies. Why should one play the "original" versions in those cases?
>
> This message was posted by me. NOT by "rec.music.classical.recordings".

I've seen a similar attribution error on another group. Maybe a google
problem?